does anyone have a legitimate, serious horary question?

tikana

Well-known member
you cant get away from a question is "am i ready to take a midterm or how will i do on a midterm?"
i am not talking about "will my prof come to class next week?":devil::devil:
 

Dirius

Well-known member
No, Tikana has it right on this. You only learn from horary if you can get a proper outcome from them. This barely happens on the forum, even long-term posters forget or oftentimes don't want to share. This is what makes known outcome horaries so valuable. No one likes to participate in those, though.


I also agree on this. But its not that bad, some do update, just not in the proper way.
:bandit:

- There are a few cases in which the poster makes a "new" horary post about the same issue, after it changes (for example horary about liking someone, and an horary when they get rejected).....which in a way serves as a sort of update. They do this because the prediction was right on their last chart, and in the new post they end up updating the situation.

- Others sometimes do it through pm, wanting to get some more info from the original chart.

Of course I agree that 99.9999% of posters never bother to update just for the sake of updating so everyone learns. They do it because they want more predictions lol.

:joyful:
 

tikana

Well-known member
the ugliness of the horary board as Kai rightfully said. People do not update and if you are googling certain criteria how to read a chart with a specific topic in the section, you end up getting either unresolved horary thread or deleted charts with no update. I suggested Tim ages ago we need a system that allows members to tag a thread that has a known outcome and just in case if a person finds the thread he/she will not spend hours sorting through the useless threads.

T
 
Exactly :smile:
interestingly
dr. farr used Placidus for forty years also, before switching to Whole Signs



http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42163

Again, regarding Placidus house cusps, I see no reason to convert to whole signs.

There are horaryists, out there, who have been practicing horary a lot longer than me, such as Alphee Lavoie and also, Diana Stone. Both have practiced for 50 to 60 years. I believe both still use Placidus houses, as well.

If you have been around the horary block, you also know who they are.

I use Placidus cusps for everything that I do in astrology, such as natal charts, composites, re-locations, election charts. etc.

I have also erected many solar charts, for those who do not know their actual birth times. (ie using a chart based on 12 noon local time)

In astrology, we work with what we have !


later,

HM
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Again, regarding Placidus house cusps, I see no reason to convert to whole signs.

There are horaryists, out there, who have been practicing horary a lot longer than me, such as Alphee Lavoie and also, Diana Stone. Both have practiced for 50 to 60 years. I believe both still use Placidus houses, as well.

If you have been around the horary block, you also know who they are.

I use Placidus cusps for everything that I do in astrology, such as natal charts, composites, re-locations, election charts. etc.

I have also erected many solar charts, for those who do not know their actual birth times. (ie using a chart based on 12 noon local time)

In astrology, we work with what we have !
later,
HM
There are fourteen different house system options available on astro.com
check out the EXTENDED CHART SELECTION PAGE
Placidus is simply the default :smile:

Obviously, different horary practitioners obtain good results
using different house systems
each house system has its advocates
and that's fine
 

duenderoja

Well-known member
So if a person uses whole signs because it has worked for them in the past, people who use other house systems will not look at their queries?

Where does the complication come in?

I am learning - but occasionally I get stuck at combining everything I read into a succinct answer. This is why I come to these forums, to learn from others.

Forgive me for jumping in and speaking.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
So if a person uses whole signs because it has worked for them in the past, people who use other house systems will not look at their queries?

Where does the complication come in?

I am learning - but occasionally I get stuck at combining everything I read into a succinct answer. This is why I come to these forums, to learn from others.

Forgive me for jumping in and speaking.

People who base their technique mostly on William Lilly's work will use regiomontanus (or placidus sometimes), because they feel more comfortable using that system. It is NOT because it is a better system, its just because what they are used to.

It is perfectly fine to use full signs, just don't expect for a regiomontanus user to answer you, because he'll see things a different way.:happy:

But the question would be, if you are learning, why do you use full signs? Not saying its wrong at all, I love the full house system, I'm asking just out of curiosity :happy:
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
duenderoja said:
So if a person uses whole signs because it has worked for them in the past, people who use other house systems will not look at their queries?

Where does the complication come in?

I am learning - but occasionally I get stuck at combining everything I read into a succinct answer. This is why I come to these forums, to learn from others.

Forgive me for jumping in and speaking.

In my opinion, horary charts should be read in the house system they are initially cast in. If one agrees that there is something divinational in horary, then there is probably a reason a question was cast using whatever house system it was cast in. People who try to take control of it and re-cast it into whatever house system they use are clearly missing the heart of horary astrology in general.

If someone can't read a horary chart in whole sign houses, that is their issue, not the individual who constructed it.

People believe that Regiomontanus is the only or most appropriate house system to use in horary because Lilly used it. It isn't. Lilly only used it because Regiomontanus tables were prolific in his time. One could say that Regio was the default in 17th century England. ;)
 

Arena

Well-known member
Thanks for your answers concerning my concerns.

horarymaster, I do realize that many people use placidus and they think it works well for them. I am not saying they are wrong - I am just saying that it does not seem right for me.
I live above 64° polar :) ... and I've read enough about house systems now to know that when you get beyond 60° some of the house systems simply do not work at all anymore. So I dropped them now -I am not trying to use them anymore, because they are simply showing a wrong picture to me. I now always check wsh and then I try another system that has proved well in polar latitudes.

About the sidereal side of things, it is the same for me, now after many years of study I find that sidereal speaks to me in the clearest way. There is also lots of substantial evidence that the olden astrologers did in fact use the sidereal zodiac. So I made up my mind now to stick to it.

This is not a post intended to startup a sidereal vs. tropical debate or house system debate. I am just asking you in order to learn more :)

JupiterAsc, here is a very interesting thread that tells me beyond a reasonable doubt that Valens used sidereal measurements.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7341
 
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duenderoja

Well-known member
People who base their technique mostly on William Lilly's work will use regiomontanus (or placidus sometimes), because they feel more comfortable using that system. It is NOT because it is a better system, its just because what they are used to.

It is perfectly fine to use full signs, just don't expect for a regiomontanus user to answer you, because he'll see things a different way.:happy:

But the question would be, if you are learning, why do you use full signs? Not saying its wrong at all, I love the full house system, I'm asking just out of curiosity :happy:

I am a vedic student. Sidereal seems the most truthful to me, although I have been studying both for a short time. The predictive capabilities of the system I am studying has borne out far more than my previous system.

So basically, I use full house because it works for me.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
The horary section on AW has always been in poor shape. The administration has decided (probably for the best as far as manpower and time is concerned) that all questions are equally worthy of being posted and if you don't like a chart's question you can just not answer it. This is why I mostly don't respond to horaries anymore, though I was once quite prolific. I do like to help in medical horaries, though.

The administration could get a moderator for the horary forum only but everytime they do it's haphazard and then the moderator leaves. :unsure:

Not everyone quite gets on board with what is and isn't a good horary, so many people continue to post inane questions because they were validated by someone's response. The only real veto power we had (so to speak) was in solidarity, and that is pretty impotent compared to other powers. However, this is what you get when the moderator team is relatively unversed in horary in general.

What is worse is that conversation/debate about technique, ethics, reasoning are shut down... but only if someone complains. Then the basic mo is to delete almost everything that doesn't contain the name of a planet or aspect. And you have to admit it's tough to find solidarity these days.

This is even without touching on the issue with using these charts posted on forums anyway...

Which actually speaks to the original question on this thread. I don't believe it's fair to post an entire thread complaining that no one is bringing great horary questions to the table when we are replying to what is essentially a free horary service. You get what you pay for, yes, but as astrologers you also get the kind of questions that you get paid for..or not.

I also think it's largely unfair to characterize these questions as arrising out of sheer bordom. By and large, whether they seem silly to us or not, especially the first time posters had an issue that to them, in that moment, is consuming them to the point they decided to learn what horary is, figure out how to make a chart, and then post it. The problem is that they didn't know what they were doing, and likely asked the same or similar question at least ten times before they settled on the chart they want to present.

I'd say for those replying to these boards that if it's quality you are looking for in questions/charts, any internet forum isn't going to be the way to go. And if you have over 40 years of experience answering horary charts maybe your talents would be best served in private practice, where you can pick and choose your questions..and as a bonus get paid for your time.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
tsmall said:
Which actually speaks to the original question on this thread. I don't believe it's fair to post an entire thread complaining that no one is bringing great horary questions to the table when we are replying to what is essentially a free horary service. You get what you pay for, yes, but as astrologers you also get the kind of questions that you get paid for..or not.

Yeah, I totally agree. In private practice I've never turned down a consultation because of a frivolous question. When people invest their money into their horary, it is always much better. Much more thought out, much more clear, it's just better in every way. What I find most interesting is that the grand majority of my clients are aware of basic horary, so they know what they are supposed to do.

Compare that with here where I can only find horary chart once in a blue Moon that I want to get involved in and the amount of people posting who don't really understand horary other than "ask a question, post a chart".

So, there is definitely something to be said about a financial sacrifice making the questions more important or worth getting involved in.

I also think it's largely unfair to characterize these questions as arrising out of sheer bordom. By and large, whether they seem silly to us or not, especially the first time posters had an issue that to them, in that moment, is consuming them to the point they decided to learn what horary is, figure out how to make a chart, and then post it. The problem is that they didn't know what they were doing, and likely asked the same or similar question at least ten times before they settled on the chart they want to present.

It may be unfair, but I still think there is a pretty important difference between someone who knows about horary beforehand and someone who becomes aware of it afterwards. One makes a conscious decision to employ something, the other thinks "maybe this will help". The best analogy I can think of right now is there is one individual who does a lot of research into the proper medication or regimen to take, and the person who hears about something on TV and thinks they'll try that.

One has that premeditated consideration period, and the other doesn't. The more I practice the more I think that's really important to getting those good, solid horaries.

Tikana,

You don't like me? :'( What a meanie.
 
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tikana

Well-known member
HM

no one is required to reply on ppl's charts ESP when the question lets just say shady! i dealt with 8 of those this week alone.

and they dont update.. so it defeats the whole purpose of even putting more than 4 minutes on a chart. I know Tsmall's style of writing. she can go for a page just on interpretations. I cut to the chart "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" I hardly ever get a straight answer and to make things worse, some ppl post their chart when they dont hear "he/she will chase you," they get mad.

Kai
i like you you are cool we dont always agree .. though

T
 
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HM

no one is required to reply on ppl's charts ESP when the question lets just say shady! i dealt with 8 of those this week alone.

and they dont update.. so it defeats the whole purpose of even putting more than 4 minutes on a chart. I know Tsmall's style of writing. she can go for a page just on interpretations. I cut to the chart "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" I hardly ever get a straight answer and to make things worse, some ppl post their chart when they dont hear "he/she will chase you," they get mad.

Kai
i like you you are cool we dont always agree .. though

T

Well, I don't profess to like everyone and everything, but I do appreciate your postings, Tikana.

Your horary readings are just splendid ! :biggrin:

happy new year,


-HM
 

Yuri

Well-known member
My approach in avoiding foolish questions from a querent is considering the horary chart if it's radical by the Hour Ruler.

By my practice, most stupid question are determined by that.

And also, some not completely clear questions loooking sane but not really important for the querent (for ex., by reasons for anything another urgent querent's matters at the moment hidden from the astrologer).

Lilly and Dario set the non-radicalness by the Hour Ruler on the first (place). Yuri.
 
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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Lilly and Dario set the non-radicalness by the Hour Ruler on the first (place).

Guido Bonatti was the first to write about the hour ruler and Ascendant ruler agreement.

My approach in avoiding foolish questions from a querent is considering the horary chart if it's radical by the Hour Ruler.

By my practice, most stupid question are determined by that.

What are your thoughts on the charts by Lilly that don't have hour/ascendant agreement?
 

Yuri

Well-known member
Guido Bonatti was the first to write about the hour ruler and Ascendant ruler agreement.

What are your thoughts on the charts by Lilly that don't have hour/ascendant agreement?

I have written above - the question is not serious.
Or has not been carefully thought over.
Or some more important things exist for the querent at the time (at the moment; the judgement must be done with caution).

(i meant "first" not by time - just by importance. I mean the Hour ruler is THE FIRST STEP to judge the chart - for not having stupid of thoughtful questions as being discussed here, or, if the question is looking sane, judge with caution. -My sad experience with some not relevant questions and results... Radical charts usually are clearly considered and more readable. Not radical ones have usually complicated or some tricky points such as the significator's presence on a fixed star with an orb of 1 minute (a strong impact) or an orb within cusp is equally 5.00 degrees and so on...). Yuri.
 
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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Yuri said:
I have written above - the question is not serious.
Or has not been carefully thought over.
Or some more important things exist for the querent at the time (at the moment; the judgement must be done with caution).

This isn't really answering my question. Unless, of course, you're saying that the charts presented in the texts of these authors are not serious, unimportant, or shouldn't be focused on. That's a pretty big accusation to make against questions like 'A woman of her husband at sea" and "a sick doctor". Another chart to consider along this line is "if attain the philosopher's stone" which does have hour agreement, but the chart itself shows that the queisted matter should not be the querent's main focus.

It really all boils down to what it means to be radical, and I disagree that Lilly considered hour lord to be the first indicator of an appropriate question. Reading his delineations, one would almost get the feeling that it was appropriate physical description of the querent since this is something he does in almost every example.

duenderoja said:
How is the hour ruler derived? I have searched and searched and only found calculators.

Hi duenderoja,

What do you mean by "derived"? Like, where does it come from? Or how do you figure out what it is?
 
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