Does He Have a Problem With Kids?

Tessie · Jun 14, 2016

Hello petals,

I'm not sure if this question is better suited to the Health board. A young man at my church is veeery touchy-feely with a couple of the six year olds and, additionally, he keeps disappearing alone with them to empty rooms despite being told several times to stop. His behaviour is considered inappropriate by everyone else but him. Even though he keeps breaking the church rules, the church is not doing anything about it. He's also stopped speaking to me since I made a formal complaint. I am considering reporting him to the police to err on the safe side. Does the chart show whether this young man has a problem with children?

I hope you can help me.

Best Wishes xxx

Tessie · Jun 14, 2016

Delineation attempt:

Young man is L7, Saturn. Kids are L5, Mars. Both planets malefic, both peregrine in 5th house, adding to malignancy. Erm. I'd say, yes, there is a problem. Could someone confirm there is a problem, please? Thank you bunches. x x x

waybread · Jun 14, 2016

Tessie, I think it's possible, if you look at that T-square pointing to Mars in the 5th house of children. But if there are no real complaints to go on, I doubt that the police would do anything. Is this a Sunday school situation? I'm not sure why the children's parents or teacher would not be monitoring them.

A birth chart only shows potentials. Sexual fantasies are normal and legal. Acting upon certain types of sexual desires, however, are not. We can suggest from a horoscope that a person seems to have certain proclivities, but not whether they're going to act upon them. Certain transits and progressions, however, can make the pressures to manifest a certain proclivity a lot stronger.

Meanwhile, you might suggest that the Sunday school (children's program, whatever goes on in your church) do some type of brief unit for children on their personal safety and bodily autonomy. I. e., nobody has the right to touch them, especially not in inappropriate places; how to stop a potential offender, how to report one, &c. Or perhaps suggest something like this for adult education, the church newsletter, &c so that parents know what to look out for.

Expressing your concerns privately and sensitively to the young man's parent/s might be a good idea.

Sadly, touchy-feely youths were often sexually abused themselves.

waybread · Jun 14, 2016

Tessie, I realized that I didn't read this like a horary chart, but like a nativity. It's hard to know what house would be best for this young man. Mercury rules youths, and your moon (stake in the matter) is in the third house of neighbours and communication, so I thought I would use Mercury to symbolize him, with Mars ruling the 5th house of children. These two planets don't aspect one another and I doubt that anything bad has happened. Neither planet is in a particularly strong position. But for this kid's sake, it's best if he stops this behaviour, of course.

Kitchy · Jun 14, 2016

Moon Jupiter conjunct in querant 3rd and the node is there soon to be perfecting a conjunction and node is direct. Node is telling what direction to follow with moon - instinct and jupiter - "awareness"

3rd house children/school children/sunday school lessons/day care/youth centers in the neighborhood, community

Tessie · Jun 14, 2016

waybread said:
Tessie, I think it's possible, if you look at that T-square pointing to Mars in the 5th house of children. But if there are no real complaints to go on, I doubt that the police would do anything. Is this a Sunday school situation? I'm not sure why the children's parents or teacher would not be monitoring them.

A birth chart only shows potentials. Sexual fantasies are normal and legal. Acting upon certain types of sexual desires, however, are not. We can suggest from a horoscope that a person seems to have certain proclivities, but not whether they're going to act upon them. Certain transits and progressions, however, can make the pressures to manifest a certain proclivity a lot stronger.

Meanwhile, you might suggest that the Sunday school (children's program, whatever goes on in your church) do some type of brief unit for children on their personal safety and bodily autonomy. I. e., nobody has the right to touch them, especially not in inappropriate places; how to stop a potential offender, how to report one, &c. Or perhaps suggest something like this for adult education, the church newsletter, &c so that parents know what to look out for.

Expressing your concerns privately and sensitively to the young man's parent/s might be a good idea.

Sadly, touchy-feely youths were often sexually abused themselves.

Thank you very much for your informative responses! Thank you Waybread for also offering advice xx.

The young man is actually 27 years old, so not so young. Several complaints have been made about him previously. He's been warned to stop disappearing alone with children but he seems unable to. When I asked him what he benefits from being so close to a couple of these young boys, he said he wants physical intimacy and that he has no need to be physically intimate with little girls, only little boys. I've also seen him making videos on his phone of the kids in wet clothes. To make matters worse, the church pastor, to whom I addressed my complaint, is doing his best to misrepresent the issue on formal documentation by outright lying, saying the complaint is the first of its kind, etc. We were all told to tell nobody else about this issue and keep it between the three of us. Other people have made complaints after me because they've seen the 27 year old leaving the men's toilet with the same little boy and disappearing alone with him, still...

I contacted the police this evening. They came to speak to me within the hour. They were surprised that the pastor had been trying to handle this in-house, etc., without contacting them. They definitely wanted to be informed. Whilst I am not making allegations of sexual abuse, I am making allegations of consistent rule-breaking in the church and the pastor's deliberate and consistent covering-up. Additionally, at the very least, these little boys are being groomed, touched, stroked, kissed, to let their boundaries down and anyone can walk through the church door and exploit that situation further, if they have not already. I don't see the point of having church rules if nobody needs to respect them. I can see how not informing the police could have been wrong but, if nobody is guilty, the police are able to clarify that for themselves. I could not take the chance. I hope I am wrong.

Thank you, once again, for your efforts and input! It is much appreciated.

Best Wishes, x x x

katydid · Jun 14, 2016

Tessie said:
Thank you very much for your informative responses! Thank you Waybread for also offering advice xx.

The young man is actually 27 years old, so not so young. Several complaints have been made about him previously. He's been warned to stop disappearing alone with children but he seems unable to. When I asked him what he benefits from being so close to a couple of these young boys, he said he wants physical intimacy and that he has no need to be physically intimate with little girls, only little boys. I've also seen him making videos on his phone of the kids in wet clothes. To make matters worse, the church pastor, to whom I addressed my complaint, is doing his best to misrepresent the issue on formal documentation by outright lying, saying the complaint is the first of its kind, etc. We were all told to tell nobody else about this issue and keep it between the three of us. Other people have made complaints after me because they've seen the 27 year old leaving the men's toilet with the same little boy and disappearing alone with him, still...

I contacted the police this evening. They came to speak to me within the hour. They were surprised that the pastor had been trying to handle this in-house, etc., without contacting them. They definitely wanted to be informed. Whilst I am not making allegations of sexual abuse, I am making allegations of consistent rule-breaking in the church and the pastor's deliberate and consistent covering-up. Additionally, at the very least, these little boys are being groomed, touched, stroked, kissed, to let their boundaries down and anyone can walk through the church door and exploit that situation further, if they have not already. I don't see the point of having church rules if nobody needs to respect them. I can see how not informing the police could have been wrong but, if nobody is guilty, the police are able to clarify that for themselves. I could not take the chance. I hope I am wrong.

Thank you, once again, for your efforts and input! It is much appreciated.

Best Wishes, x x x

There is something else that I find odd and that concerns me. MOST men have a radar for their own safety and well being and do not want to put themselves in a compromising situation---especially after being warned by others.

One time my husband, who has a very caring Cancer Moon, saw a young girl crying on the side of the road. He stopped and got out of his car and spoke to her.
She was scared and lost. But he did NOT put her in his car with him alone, for fear of being the one found with a missing child. He called 911 from right there and waited with her, on the sidewalk. He gave her his coat to warm her up, but he did keep in mind the uncomfortable possibility of what happens if a crying child is alone in a car with a stranger.

So I find it very strange that this young man goes into toilet areas alone with boys and goes alone into secluded areas and 'rough houses' with them. I would be very suspicious too. You did the right thing, in my opinion. And he has brought the suspicion down on himself for not heeding the earlier warnings from people who had concerns.

I guess the call to the authorities can be seen by the applying square to Saturn, from the Moon. You confronted him in a formal way?

Tessie · Jun 14, 2016

Thanks, KD!

That's so interesting as the square from moon to Saturn applies by 1 deg. and yet it is exactly a month to the day from when the chart was cast to when the police were informed. I agree completely with what you've said. On the one hand, I could not understand either why he wanted to continue this behaviour that was causing so much trouble. On the other hand, I think this young man may have Asperger's Syndrome which needs diagnosing, which may be the reason why he is unable to grasp the seriousness of these issues. I know he'll be quite pissed off that I've contacted the police but, the way I see it, it's better for him that I do that now so that he learns the seriousness of these issues rather than somebody else taking it upon themselves to teach him the hard way.

waybread · Jun 14, 2016

Tessie, I also think you did the right thing. But what you didn't say in your OP was,

The young man is actually 27 years old, so not so young. Several complaints have been made about him previously. He's been warned to stop disappearing alone with children but he seems unable to. When I asked him what he benefits from being so close to a couple of these young boys, he said he wants physical intimacy and that he has no need to be physically intimate with little girls, only little boys. I've also seen him making videos on his phone of the kids in wet clothes.

at the very least, these little boys are being groomed, touched, stroked, kissed, to let their boundaries down...

In your OP: "A young man at my church..." which is usually a way of referring to an adolescent or minor.

In future requests for readings, it's best to describe the situation as accurately as possible. Your horary question was, "Does he have a problem with kids?" You know he has a problem with little boys, independently of any horoscope. So was your real question something else, like "Should I go to the police?" Or "Has he molested anyone?"

rafaella · Jun 15, 2016

Tessie said:
Hello petals,

I'm not sure if this question is better suited to the Health board. A young man at my church is veeery touchy-feely with a couple of the six year olds and, additionally, he keeps disappearing alone with them to empty rooms despite being told several times to stop. His behaviour is considered inappropriate by everyone else but him. Even though he keeps breaking the church rules, the church is not doing anything about it. He's also stopped speaking to me since I made a formal complaint. I am considering reporting him to the police to err on the safe side. Does the chart show whether this young man has a problem with children?

I hope you can help me.

Best Wishes xxx

His significator is Saturn rx peregrine, in 5th, so he is interested in kids. Mars, the kids are also there in the same house, which confirms that he is around kids. But I don't believe he has 'done' anything yet as there was no conjunction.

Jupiter, the authorities is weak, no dignity. So they can't do much, but there is a square and you, Moon is also involved bringing Jup to Saturn. Moon translates the light. Moon also trine Mercury which has reception with Moon. Perhaps Mercury is the community, groups/friends. All those planets in Taurus exalt Moon, so you will find support from many people. So I think something will be done.

I wonder in all this, where are the parents of these kids? I think best to speak with the parents as they are the one who should take action or stop bringing their kids to the church unless this man is removed from there. Better to be safe than sorry.

Tessie · Jun 15, 2016

waybread said:
In future requests for readings, it's best to describe the situation as accurately as possible. Your horary question was, "Does he have a problem with kids?" You know he has a problem with little boys, independently of any horoscope. So was your real question something else, like "Should I go to the police?" Or "Has he molested anyone?"

Dear Waybread,

Thank you for your response and support. I apologize I was not more clear in the OP. My question, does he have a problem with kids, was to inquire about his intentions, whether they are innocent or sinister? Although his behaviour is inappropriate, I was inquiring about his intentions behind the behaviour.

Tessie · Jun 15, 2016

rafaella said:
His significator is Saturn rx peregrine, in 5th, so he is interested in kids. Mars, the kids are also there in the same house, which confirms that he is around kids. But I don't believe he has 'done' anything yet as there was no conjunction.

Jupiter, the authorities is weak, no dignity. So they can't do much, but there is a square and you, Moon is also involved bringing Jup to Saturn. Moon translates the light. Moon also trine Mercury which has reception with Moon. Perhaps Mercury is the community, groups/friends. All those planets in Taurus exalt Moon, so you will find support from many people. So I think something will be done.

I wonder in all this, where are the parents of these kids? I think best to speak with the parents as they are the one who should take action or stop bringing their kids to the church unless this man is removed from there. Better to be safe than sorry.

Dear Rafaella,

Thank you for your response and delineation. May I clarify your answer, please? When you say, "His significator is Saturn rx peregrine, in 5th, so he is interested in kids. Mars, the kids are also there in the same house, which confirms that he is around kids. But I don't believe he has 'done' anything yet as there was no conjunction." Does the chart indicate whether his intentions, which flow from his interest in children, are innocent or sinister?

In answer to your question, the father of one of the little boys encourages all this. I had to report him to the police, along with the 27 year old and the pastor, because he is also very inappropriate physically with his 12 year old daughter. Since I was so new to the church, I was noticing this inappropriate behaviour and reporting it. However, the people involved (the 27 year old, the father, the pastor) are all supporting one another other, covering up for one another and dismissing the complaints continuously. I've been told by the pastor that I'm not welcome back to the church as a result of making my complaint and several other people have left as a result of how I've been treated and how this child-safeguarding issue has been treated, and also their previous issues with pastoral bullying since before I arrived. As one of the ladies put it, it's a case of "churchianity" rather than "Christianity." The facility is obviously being misused.

Kitchy · Jun 15, 2016

either this man will end up acting inappropriately on his fascination with children, or he has some developmental issues of lapsed development and sees children as his peers.

The multiple grand trine groupings btwn your sig moon-jup and his saturn and neptune and the 11th house venus/sun/merc (his 5th turned chart) and they connect with Neptune - it is vague, obfuscated to me at this point, however....

My concern is the sequestering, 'hole-ing' off with these kids - secret hide-outs - Pluto 12th house of quesited in turned chart.

consider an example in your consideration to act : Michael Jackson

waybread · Jun 15, 2016

Tessie, you might also try reporting the situation to child welfare services in your area. But without compelling evidence of child molestation, I suspect it will be hard to get them or the police to change anything.

rafaella · Jun 16, 2016

Tessie said:
Dear Rafaella,

Thank you for your response and delineation. May I clarify your answer, please? When you say, "His significator is Saturn rx peregrine, in 5th, so he is interested in kids. Mars, the kids are also there in the same house, which confirms that he is around kids. But I don't believe he has 'done' anything yet as there was no conjunction." Does the chart indicate whether his intentions, which flow from his interest in children, are innocent or sinister?

In answer to your question, the father of one of the little boys encourages all this. I had to report him to the police, along with the 27 year old and the pastor, because he is also very inappropriate physically with his 12 year old daughter. Since I was so new to the church, I was noticing this inappropriate behaviour and reporting it. However, the people involved (the 27 year old, the father, the pastor) are all supporting one another other, covering up for one another and dismissing the complaints continuously. I've been told by the pastor that I'm not welcome back to the church as a result of making my complaint and several other people have left as a result of how I've been treated and how this child-safeguarding issue has been treated, and also their previous issues with pastoral bullying since before I arrived. As one of the ladies put it, it's a case of "churchianity" rather than "Christianity." The facility is obviously being misused.

You know here in Australia, many catholic priests were found to be paedophiles. So I wouldn't trust a man in robes.

Saturn, the man is peregrine, and according to Lilly can act both good and bad, so I can't say that he has innocent motives, as he could turn bad too. Peregrine planet can go either way. A planet with good essential dignity is good natured. The priest would be 9th house ruler Jupiter in detriment, no dignity, so this priest is no good when it comes to this question. But Jupiter is ruled by Mercury, the community, so the more you make noise (with help of you peers) the better. And Mercury will support you.

Maybe get in touch with the mothers of both of the children as well if you can. And as Waybread suggested, contact child welfare services. You may not be welcome in the church, but you should be proud of yourself that you are vigilant and are true friend to these children. The only one looking out for them.

Please keep us updated!

Tessie · Jun 29, 2016

Thank you, so much, for your responses and your support <3

The matter got passed on to some type of child-safeguarding specialist at the police although I never did hear her official job title. Anyway, she said since none of what I listed actually constitutes a crime, for example, going upstairs alone with someone else's child is not a crime. As such, she said, she will not be pursuing it, neither will she be interviewing the kids. I am deeply disturbed by this logic but, hey, it was already shown in the chart. Therefore, I am also so thankful for your advice to alert the social services, as well. I will push for the kids to be interviewed.

kailaniatsea · Jun 29, 2016

Tessie, I think you just confirmed that the church has a serious problem with corruption, e.g. afflicted Neptune in 9th, religion. Because Neptune in Pisces is squared with Saturn in the 5th, children, I am inclined to think that there are other members of the clergy who may be involved in pedophilia and use education (Sagittarius and the emphasis on the 9th house) as a cover (Neptune in secretive Pisces). The Virgo moon conjunct Jupiter shows you operating from a holistic place and will have to persist, because Moon and Jupiter trine Mercury (your dispositor) in Taurus (a fixed sign) in the 11th (associations and friendships). Because the moon is cadent in a feminine sign you may only be able to provide suggestions, but not influence. However, the Taurean 11th holds promise if you have dogged determination. I am sorry to hear this. Sick bastards!

Tessie · Jun 29, 2016

kailaniatsea said:
Tessie, I think you just confirmed that the church has a serious problem with corruption, e.g. afflicted Neptune in 9th, religion. Because Neptune in Pisces is squared with Saturn in the 5th, children, I am inclined to think that there are other members of the clergy who may be involved in pedophilia and use education (Sagittarius and the emphasis on the 9th house) as a cover (Neptune in secretive Pisces). The Virgo moon conjunct Jupiter shows you operating from a holistic place and will have to persist, because Moon and Jupiter trine Mercury (your dispositor) in Taurus (a fixed sign) in the 11th (associations and friendships). Because the moon is cadent in a feminine sign you may only be able to provide suggestions, but not influence. However, the Taurean 11th holds promise if you have dogged determination. I am sorry to hear this. Sick bastards!

Thanks, so much, dear kailaniatsea! You are spot on correct. There is a lot of spiritual abuse happening at that church and my applied concerns actually extend beyond the children. This is a church that is very much using religion to control adult lives and bully people. If someone disagrees with this agenda, they are thrown out, which lines the other sheep into compliance. It makes me sick that religious institutions are above the law in many respects because there is no professional body to moderate their behaviour. For example, the use of religion for the bullying and control of adults which is unethical and forbidden in other establishments which have psychological intervention. Spiritual intervention obv. goes quite deep and can be used to inflict as well as covertly teach great harm. This police officer does not know who she is dealing with. I will pursue it at governmental level most likely. x x x

kailaniatsea · Jun 29, 2016

Tessie said:
Thanks, so much, dear kailaniatsea! You are spot on correct. There is a lot of spiritual abuse happening at that church and my applied concerns actually extend beyond the children. This is a church that is very much using religion to control adult lives and bully people. If someone disagrees with this agenda, they are thrown out, which lines the other sheep into compliance. It makes me sick that religious institutions are above the law in many respects because there is no professional body to moderate their behaviour. For example, the use of religion for the bullying and control of adults which is unethical and forbidden in other establishments which have psychological intervention. Spiritual intervention obv. goes quite deep and can be used to inflict as well as covertly teach great harm. This police officer does not know who she is dealing with. I will pursue it at governmental level most likely. x x x

I didn't want to call them a cult, but I think you yourself just corroborated that. My God. The things that people subject themselves to in the name of "God." Remember covert Pisces. That is the church's M.O. The good thing is that governmental organizations meet you well (your Virgo moon disposes into Mercury in Taurus Rx in the 11th). The Rx could suggest that it may take a long time for the right thing to be done (Taurus is succedent). But keep building up your evidence (great emphasis on Earth signs in the chart) and justice will be thy done. We need more people like you. I went through a similar situation a few years ago, though it was the next door neighbors rather than a church. It was horrible. Law enforcement treated us like we were the ones with the problem. They were even abusing their dogs to spite us. Bad time indeed.

Tessie · Jun 29, 2016

kailaniatsea said:
I didn't want to call them a cult, but I think you yourself just corroborated that. My God. The things that people subject themselves to in the name of "God." Remember covert Pisces. That is the church's M.O. The good thing is that governmental organizations meet you well (your Virgo moon disposes into Mercury in Taurus Rx in the 11th). The Rx could suggest that it may take a long time for the right thing to be done (Taurus is succedent). But keep building up your evidence (great emphasis on Earth signs in the chart) and justice will be thy done. We need more people like you. I went through a similar situation a few years ago, though it was the next door neighbors rather than a church. It was horrible. Law enforcement treated us like we were the ones with the problem. They were even abusing their dogs to spite us. Bad time indeed.

I am so sorry to hear about your experience; I empathise as I understand. Thank you for your amazing advice which I take to heart as encouragement. They are a cult and I know the adults must be completely brain washed because the church boasts to be "Bible-believing" just not Bible-practicing. Often times closed doors are mere sign posts to something greater and I am glad you've confirmed that my time pursuing this may be not completely wasted. Thanks a lot, sweetie! x x x

Does He Have a Problem With Kids?

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