Intellect & Sexual Attraction

Lin · Jan 6, 2015

LOL...something to remember about that story is that it's a "hollywood" story.

In order for anyone ....especially men because they are from "mars"....to say they want to be better or improve or "grow" personally, they would first have to admit that they are lacking. Frankly....and I am NOT young and I've known a LOT of people including a fair number of men....and admitting one is "lacking" and needs to "improve" is not natural for men. Most people get a bit defensive about this subject...even if they KNOW they need to "be better people."
Women do much better with this. First, because women always seem to be open to new ways of doing things; doing things that brings better results in their lives. Next because women have been taught to learn new things and to be more coorperative in life in general. We ask for advice more often. And we sincerely want to "do" things that may may us happier.
LIN

spock · Jan 6, 2015

TamaraL said:
I 've noticed a needy-pattern in certain areas of my life. (love relationships= MENTORS a weird complex ) Initially I wanted to name this thread "dependency -love issues in the chart". But the theme-question here is intellectual stimulation & forming relationships (love relationships). It took 25 years for me to notice this...
Breakthrough!!!

Its not easy to detect it in my everyday life because I appear to be very independent in serious relationship decisions & a bit of loner (A LOT) & very specific about what I am searching in life and love.(One would describe me a woman who doesn't need anybody to tell her what to do..)

Subconsciously I am searching for a mentor type of lover & friend, someone "who will teach me things"...a guru maybe?? someone that possesses the same level of intellect & interests & will help my spiritual evolution (the next level). Even in my private journals there is this overall theme of finding a mentor & evolve through his teachings...Have someone to exchange heavy intellectual ping-pong... !!

I realize that makes me more un-relatable to the average boy-man of my age group (even more when I was younger) & makes me shut down the flirty side of myself quite often. I feel comfortable flirting with older men, significantly older (& really brainy that flirt is not just conventional flirt but a waterfall of ideas)...Again it took me so long to see this! To really detect whats going on backstage in my brain...

If I begin to sense that the other person is not my "equal" as a thinker I become indifferent (sexually) to them. When younger I've felt a but guilty over this...now not really! I 've never heard a similar opinion by a woman or a man!! (Only when I watch Sherlock, on BBC one! Scary comparison..) Have you seen this trait before in a woman? Would you consider this a dysfunction inherited from the behavioral patterns of my early environment?

What we truly want, if we're fortunate enough to stumble over it, isn't always what we thought we wanted, but on the other hand sometimes the ideas in our heads about what we really want are pretty prescient. Your self-analysis seems perceptive. But dysfunctional? Not necessarily. Oona O'Neill Chaplin had, as far as I know, a long and happy life with Charles. Two people with oddball tastes, as long as each is the unusual fit for the other's unusual criteria, are no more dysfunctional than more conventional pairings. The wife of the man featured in the book and movie "A Beautiful Mind", also had a long and fulfilling relationship, even considering the years her husband spent in a schizophrenic wilderness before his later-in-life remission. But if the kind of person one has a yen for is a rare type there might be a paucity of opportunities.

In my natal Chart I feel this must be combination of Pisces Sun in the 9th Conjunct Venus & Aquarius-Mercury in the 8th. But then again there's no aspect between my Mercury & Venus! Or is this a Mars square Mercury to blame for wicked attitude towards attraction & love relationships? I have this tiny (HUGE) fear that this attitude can prevent me from experiencing a real- fulfilling relationship. Does my chart & progressions show if I can gain real fulfillment & not just intellectual (power play) fulfillment?

99% of astrology is fluff. Filler. Including signs, houses and progressions. Excluding only aspects and transits, about which we know only a little. We don't have a bunch of charts of women who fit the characteristics you described above, to check for similarities. But we do have you, or at least you do, your own history I mean. It would be interesting to know the dates or periods of episodes in which you felt or acted upon a strong attraction. That might give us some clues about which planets, if any, are relevant, and in what way.

R4VEN · Jan 6, 2015

Everything about your `longing' for the right partner has been said, so I'll not add to that. What has already been mentioned is Juno. The placement - sign and house - of Juno will be what your soul requires, for whatever reason. I suspect the much of the idealising you have engaged in over time has been Neptune at work. Juno is what you will eventually choose at a soul level, because this is what you *need* in a committed partner - I'll link you to Bob Marks' page about Juno. Note the first sentence on the page - and it is true, even if you don't want it to be.

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Juno21.3.html

TamaraL · Jan 7, 2015

Lin said:
Hi Tamara,
I don't know if you are still here....but I am glad you got so much from the book. I tell a lot of people about it...I don't know how many actually read it. Most of it is very practical information and common sense....of course when we are 'in love' sometimes we lose our "common sense." Right?
Somehow the rules fly out the window.

I found the hardest part was her list of the qualities you want from a partner....LOL....how many men have I ever met whose goals include becoming "better" people?
OR as she puts it "commitment to personal growth".
Or maybe even rarer...."emotional openness".....most men -anyway- that I have ever known are fixed in the emotional patterns...if they are open, they are open...but if they aren't they aren't going to become moreso.
those are really hard qualities to find.
LIN

Hello Lin I am here!
Its scary that we go through life not knowing our patterns...but its the norm.Very few people women-men know themselves(with bad traits & good included)...these people can evolve really I think...only then you can open up, if you know yourself you are not pretending or trying to impress anyone...

Thanks Lin

TamaraL · Jan 7, 2015

spock said:
What we truly want, if we're fortunate enough to stumble over it, isn't always what we thought we wanted, but on the other hand sometimes the ideas in our heads about what we really want are pretty prescient. Your self-analysis seems perceptive. But dysfunctional? Not necessarily. Oona O'Neill Chaplin had, as far as I know, a long and happy life with Charles. Two people with oddball tastes, as long as each is the unusual fit for the other's unusual criteria, are no more dysfunctional than more conventional pairings. The wife of the man featured in the book and movie "A Beautiful Mind", also had a long and fulfilling relationship, even considering the years her husband spent in a schizophrenic wilderness before his later-in-life remission. But if the kind of person one has a yen for is a rare type there might be a paucity of opportunities.

99% of astrology is fluff. Filler. Including signs, houses and progressions. Excluding only aspects and transits, about which we know only a little. We don't have a bunch of charts of women who fit the characteristics you described above, to check for similarities. But we do have you, or at least you do, your own history I mean. It would be interesting to know the dates or periods of episodes in which you felt or acted upon a strong attraction. That might give us some clues about which planets, if any, are relevant, and in what way.

Wise words! I think, I remember a famous neon sign (art installation) that stated: "Protect me from what I want"...I am too harsh on myself..I am not really dysfunctional, I am a strong person that is not really afraid saying my opinion-be who I am- be unusually pretty (lol) but without a constant boyfriend that treats me like a pet or I treat him like a pet.....But there are moments of weakness where I am not really sure why I am so rare. I don't see women like me often, my common sense knows they exist.We exist.I love the "beautiful mind" couple...such a strong connection...I think are people afraid to be who they really are & blindly follow a pattern...especially young people.Thank you.

TamaraL · Jan 7, 2015

R4VEN said:
Everything about your `longing' for the right partner has been said, so I'll not add to that. What has already been mentioned is Juno. The placement - sign and house - of Juno will be what your soul requires, for whatever reason. I suspect the much of the idealising you have engaged in over time has been Neptune at work. Juno is what you will eventually choose at a soul level, because this is what you *need* in a committed partner - I'll link you to Bob Marks' page about Juno. Note the first sentence on the page - and it is true, even if you don't want it to be.

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Juno21.3.html

Hello R4VEN, I feel I should investigate more about Juno.I checked the link...its very interesting because I have 2nd House, Juno in Virgo (0 degrees)...

A guy that really intrigues me (recently) has many personal planets in Virgo & Venus in Leo he is very meticulous about his work & creativity (he writes music &has a band) I admire him..That makes sense...
I am not attracted on someone based on their money not sure if I can be so superficial (2nd house Juno)...that would be lame
Thank you

Etchasketch · Jan 18, 2015

Fascinating discussion, I must say. Tamara you brought up an interest point earlier in the thread about not settling for people who can't keep up with you intellectually. Not sure if I missed it but did you elaborate on this? Also you mentioned the idea that we get what we project, I'm not sure I've quite had that experience, unless of course I am completely misreading my chart lol.

As an aside, is Juno for both men and women in regards to soul partners?
Don't nodes have something to say or is that mostly for past lives/karmic relationships?

R4VEN · Jan 19, 2015

Etchasketch said:
As an aside, is Juno for both men and women in regards to soul partners?
Don't nodes have something to say or is that mostly for past lives/karmic relationships?

Nodes show up in some karmic relationships, which may well also be partner-relationships.

Juno is in everyone's charts, and describes the partner we need for soul growth, even if it's not the partner we want.

Etchasketch · Jan 19, 2015

So with Venus and Juno both in my 1st house my needs and wants are the same? Is that such a good thing for a relationship or troublesome? Nevermind, my ascendant is Libra, of course it's both. lol

kaali · Jan 19, 2015

Hi TamaraL, not sure if you're still around, but I came across this thread and wanted to comment.. Our charts have some similarities, Cancer Asc, 5th house Sag moon and vertex, strong Saturn plus Neptune conjunct Dsc (or 7th house ruler in your case).

With my Aqua venus in 8th I can definitely relate to the intellectualization of attraction, and needing to be able to engage in "mind sex" with someone if the connection is going to last. It's kind of angsty but the lyrics of this song basically sum it up lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLHvb9V8Yzs

Anyway I won't ramble on with my life story and views on relationships, but if you are still around I'd be happy to talk more since I've had similar experiences (although we might have ended up on opposite ends of the same spectrum in some ways).

TamaraL · Jan 21, 2015

Etchasketch said:
Fascinating discussion, I must say. Tamara you brought up an interest point earlier in the thread about not settling for people who can't keep up with you intellectually. Not sure if I missed it but did you elaborate on this? Also you mentioned the idea that we get what we project, I'm not sure I've quite had that experience, unless of course I am completely misreading my chart lol.

As an aside, is Juno for both men and women in regards to soul partners?
Don't nodes have something to say or is that mostly for past lives/karmic relationships?

hey Etchasketch, thank you for your comment, its cool to see that this thread is still going.For me intellect & relationships has been a big issue for 25 years & I am still searching the reasons behind my actions. I think I did elaborated in the beginning but I have changed a lot since...(I 've grown I mean) & it feels somehow expired.I think all my relationships are driven by intellect & the presence of the other person. If I don't feel at ease with how a person thinks about life & I can't relate & therefore make share a sexual connection, an honest connection with the other person.

I feel we get what we project, I can't prove it mathematically, physics?maybe... action-reaction. Its something I sense from observing me-others & experiences. But I see that when you project a woman with very strong opinions, men & women behave differently than when projecting a woman that changes her opinions every 5 minutes just to be likable. I don't want to risk projecting a fake image just to be liked...where does that lead me?

TamaraL · Jan 21, 2015

kaali said:
Hi TamaraL, not sure if you're still around, but I came across this thread and wanted to comment.. Our charts have some similarities, Cancer Asc, 5th house Sag moon and vertex, strong Saturn plus Neptune conjunct Dsc (or 7th house ruler in your case).

With my Aqua venus in 8th I can definitely relate to the intellectualization of attraction, and needing to be able to engage in "mind sex" with someone if the connection is going to last. It's kind of angsty but the lyrics of this song basically sum it up lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLHvb9V8Yzs

Anyway I won't ramble on with my life story and views on relationships, but if you are still around I'd be happy to talk more since I've had similar experiences (although we might have ended up on opposite ends of the same spectrum in some ways).

Good choice of music kaali!still here yes & thanks for commenting!I saw the similarities on the chart, interesting to discover people with similar experiences.(I am 2 y older

) Maybe its the sign of Aquarius in personal planets (your Venus-my Mercury) in combination with Moon in Sagittarius that creates a different approach to attraction & relationships.
..I don't feel its about being picky or turning down men for their intellect.
I don't want to scare anyone here.In fact I can hang out with smart men as a friend & they seem to trust me more than women.

its about honesty= essential in all relationships not just love-sexual relationships. When there is no attraction between our minds, or "mind sex" oh yep..nicely put what sort of connection can be built? Otherwise its just pretending that I am into someone to please other reasons than myself...

Etchasketch · Jan 21, 2015

TamaraL said:
hey Etchasketch, thank you for your comment, its cool to see that this thread is still going.For me intellect & relationships has been a big issue for 25 years & I am still searching the reasons behind my actions. I think I did elaborated in the beginning but I have changed a lot since...(I 've grown I mean) & it feels somehow expired.I think all my relationships are driven by intellect & the presence of the other person. If I don't feel at ease with how a person thinks about life & I can't relate & therefore make share a sexual connection, an honest connection with the other person.

I feel we get what we project, I can't prove it mathematically, physics?maybe... action-reaction. Its something I sense from observing me-others & experiences. But I see that when you project a woman with very strong opinions, men & women behave differently than when projecting a woman that changes her opinions every 5 minutes just to be likable. I don't want to risk projecting a fake image just to be liked...where does that lead me?

My understanding and experience of projection is that it is rooted in the unconscious. For example, no matter how aware I am of how I behave and are potentially received by another, there have been plenty of times where my presence elicits responses that are not in keeping with the interaction at hand. (I have Pluto tightly conjunct asc residing in a stellium in my first.) Challenging traditional gender roles appears to be both our problems. You clearly communicate in a matter that is unsettling to what I suspect is disagreeable to both traditional roles, hence you're attraction to men who are more inclined to the world of ideas which also challenges the way men are traditionally supposed to inhabit the world, physically. It's likely going to take many generations before more of a balance is struck in accepting that our behaviors exist on a continuum and are not so easily compartmentalized (even astrologically), despite the efforts of science to label and categorize everything in existence.

If I might put forth a possible conundrum to you... If you only are attracted sexually to men who are on the same page as you intellectually, doesn't that severely limit your potential partners? And out of that limited number of potential partners how many will be able to meet other needs that are important for the relationship to grow? It begins to feel more like a strategy designed for protection, which only serves to keep us where we are, instead of a way of life that is open, which challenges us to evolve. I hope I'm not just blowing hot air, you mentioned you've already changed from the time of your original post so I sincerely hope I haven't stepped on your toes with that line of questioning. :smile:

Krewster · Jan 21, 2015

Just to mention your chart has an unusually high # of undecile and semi-undecile aspects, among which:

-a triangle among Merc-Mars-Nept;

-a triangle among Sun-Uran-Pluto; and

-Ven lies semi-undecile from the Sat/Nept.

If your astro software can't display these aspects, then you could draw by hand (and/or run an 11th and a 22nd harmonic chart to confirm the planets are conjunct).

While, afaik, the undecile is not well studied, you could start with the net's "need for adjustment" and "uranian-like" keyword suggestions and move forward with understanding these planetary relationships as being somewhat "edgy" in nature.

More if you're interested.

Etchasketch · Jan 21, 2015

Krewster

Were you referring to my chart or the OP's? Sry if it isn't obvious to me, my exposure to astrology has not been very structured lol. I haven't paid much attention to less mentioned aspects and harmonic charts.

TamaraL · Jan 22, 2015

Etchasketch said:
My understanding and experience of projection is that it is rooted in the unconscious. For example, no matter how aware I am of how I behave and are potentially received by another, there have been plenty of times where my presence elicits responses that are not in keeping with the interaction at hand. (I have Pluto tightly conjunct asc residing in a stellium in my first.) Challenging traditional gender roles appears to be both our problems. You clearly communicate in a matter that is unsettling to what I suspect is disagreeable to both traditional roles, hence you're attraction to men who are more inclined to the world of ideas which also challenges the way men are traditionally supposed to inhabit the world, physically. It's likely going to take many generations before more of a balance is struck in accepting that our behaviors exist on a continuum and are not so easily compartmentalized (even astrologically), despite the efforts of science to label and categorize everything in existence.

If I might put forth a possible conundrum to you... If you only are attracted sexually to men who are on the same page as you intellectually, doesn't that severely limit your potential partners? And out of that limited number of potential partners how many will be able to meet other needs that are important for the relationship to grow? It begins to feel more like a strategy designed for protection, which only serves to keep us where we are, instead of a way of life that is open, which challenges us to evolve. I hope I'm not just blowing hot air, you mentioned you've already changed from the time of your original post so I sincerely hope I haven't stepped on your toes with that line of questioning.

I agree with you are saying, about challenging gender roles.
Its not so dramatic though. (subjective of course)
Quite early in life, I was mainly admired for my my ideas & mind. Thats the message I took even from my own family. Imagination was my unique identity. So it left an imprint on my identity as a whole person.I understand that creates friction with how society sees/saw women, but I don't live in Sylvia Plath's timeframe (1932- 1963) In many ways the world changes slowly...but it also moves very fast.
I found love in my family exactly for how I was & I build my whole personality around the fact that my mind was very important (bad student by society norms, highly artistic,passionate) & that I would become a professional artist.

Its a perfect time to be a woman, an "UNusual" woman because I can actually fight about all my dreams.In the recent past I wouldn't be able to study, dress uniquely, meet men & hang out (as friends) , pursue what I need/want, have a career, & yes choosing men..I am not here to be with every guy in the room.blah blah sorry for the mini-manifesto...Look at the thread there are many cool women out there.....I don't know what the norm is anymore. Its interesting what you are saying about protection strategy.It could be true or somewhere in-between. If a person is alone for 2 years, it doesn't mean you are not evolving. Thats the other point of my thread you are not learning anything when you get in one superficial relationship after the other, most of my friends with the opposite strategy, have never been alone & are not learning anything...because their experiences are superficial.

Therefore I don't have many partners but I don't see than as a sign of weakness.Some individuals do...especially when they find you attractive & you don't. (partially its why I started the thread, wanted to ask how many people have been there?) So thats how I perceive my situation.

p.s I think Krewster is referring to your chart, now that I am looking at it...

Etchasketch · Jan 22, 2015

TamaraL said:
If a person is alone for 2 years, it doesn't mean you are not evolving. Thats the other point of my thread you are not learning anything when you get in one superficial relationship after the other, most of my friends with the opposite strategy, have never been alone & are not learning anything...because their experiences are superficial.

Therefore I don't have many partners but I don't see than as a sign of weakness.Some individuals do...especially when they find you attractive & you don't. (partially its why I started the thread, wanted to ask how many people have been there?) So thats how I perceive my situation.

p.s I think Krewster is referring to your chart, now that I am looking at it...

I completely understand what you are saying. I haven't been in a relationship for many years and still evolved outside of one. Relationships should make us feel more alive, not sap our energy. I think I was unsuccessfully referring to growth within a relationship, which I see now was tangent to the focus of your post. Whoops :whistling:

TamaraL · Jan 23, 2015

Etchasketch said:
I completely understand what you are saying. I haven't been in a relationship for many years and still evolved outside of one. Relationships should make us feel more alive, not sap our energy. I think I was unsuccessfully referring to growth within a relationship, which I see now was tangent to the focus of your post. Whoops

Yes, but the truth lies somewhere in between.The ideal maybe not the truth.Ideally its great to experience your growth within a relationship. I 'd love that! How many people do that?Most of my friends don't do that.
Only people who developed something real, something that started from self-knowledge & having a cool & healthy relationship with your self, something I didn't have, when I was younger but developed over time. Still trying.A good sense of humor is necessary too!

Obviously all this is based on personal experience & from the perspective of a young woman, who frankly doesn't get the pressure to be with someone, (in a relationship, or sexually involved for a period of time) when I am not really attracted.& Most of the time its hard to find someone to experience all this.
I am normal too, I had allowed myself to believe I wasn't but choosing people is normal.

I 've met people from my circle saying the same comment about safety. Who knows, maybe the truth again lies somewhere in between.
But from my experience, its more complicated.

Sentient0ne · Jan 23, 2015

TamaraL said:
Yes, but the truth lies somewhere in between.

So very true.

There is no predetermined point of focus when it comes to relationships. They are an evolving entity.

When something "pure" occurs, it takes us away on a journey we've never known before. It reduces us to our basic self. It's simple yet complex. It's tangible yet unreal.

I'm still trying to figure out what it is in our charts that points to this path. I think the difficulty comes in the path being cluttered or misdirected. We may be born with certain 'energy'. But from our first breath comes one influence after another, that alters how we perceive ourselves. We become what we believe we should be, not the soul we are meant to be.

I think it's important to determine what it is we seek or draw to us, as opposed to what it is we truly need.

Relationships are beautiful and complex. But in truth, can be so simple.

I look at charts and try to determine what factors make us seek out certain people, or what attracts others to us. I have Venus in Aries. I instinctively seek someone with that Aries energy. But I've come to understand that is not what I truly need. I have yet to figure out what I should be looking at in the chart to determine that.

I've followed this thread for a while. Perhaps some of us over think the relationship/intelligence concept. I have Mars in Gemini in the 7th conjunct the descendant. I spend far too much time intellectualizing about relationships. But, I enjoy doing it. A curse or a blessing? :sideways:

TamaraL · Jan 23, 2015

Sentient0ne said:
So very true.

There is no predetermined point of focus when it comes to relationships. They are an evolving entity.

When something "pure" occurs, it takes us away on a journey we've never known before. It reduces us to our basic self. It's simple yet complex. It's tangible yet unreal.

I'm still trying to figure out what it is in our charts that points to this path. I think the difficulty comes in the path being cluttered or misdirected. We may be born with certain 'energy'. But from our first breath comes one influence after another, that alters how we perceive ourselves. We become what we believe we should be, not the soul we are meant to be.

I think it's important to determine what it is we seek or draw to us, as opposed to what it is we truly need.

Relationships are beautiful and complex. But in truth, can be so simple.

I look at charts and try to determine what factors make us seek out certain people, or what attracts others to us. I have Venus in Aries. I instinctively seek someone with that Aries energy. But I've come to understand that is not what I truly need. I have yet to figure out what I should be looking at in the chart to determine that.

I've followed this thread for a while. Perhaps some of us over think the relationship/intelligence concept. I have Mars in Gemini in the 7th conjunct the descendant. I spend far too much time intellectualizing about relationships. But, I enjoy doing it. A curse or a blessing?

very poetic & true

"In truth they could be so simple"...
I am trying to stop intellectualizing but its inevitable...time will tell...
its not a curse to know what lies in the basement of your actions.It has helped me understand even love myself.
9th Sun conjunct Venus 8th in Pisces I do have this inner need to find men that will teach me the secrets of the world.Even travel with them. I think the Venus in the 8th H is a very weird Venus & I can't relate with what I read online. Maybe her exaltation & Sun conjunction overrides the house position & somehow her behavior?

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