Meaning of retrograde planets
- Thread starter redhat
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obsidianmineral
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I see retrograde planets as stronger in a sense and weaker in another. They're usually felt more intensely but their ability to successfully accomplish things is diminished. Retrograde planets make people come back to unresolved affairs once they were meant to be completed. A retrograde Jupiter would give you fortune and knowledge which may have to be relearned twice or not just one time. Jupiter may give you fortune which you end up not taking advantage of the first time. Same goes for Mercury and Venus but related to balance and harmony and deduction and reason respectively.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
HELLENISTIC astrologers state that
Mercury’s nature is to contest and to destabilize
Vettius Valens remarks that
Mercurys effects go in many directions, depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius valens entire.pdf
RETROGRADE PLANETS AND THEIR NUMBER IN THE NATAL CHART
Gregory Rozek http://gregoryrozek.com/en/retrogradeplanets/
I will probably get tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but I do not see retrograde planets as being very significant.
When Mars is retrograde, EVERY NATIVE born within that several months has retro Mars. Can everyone of those millions be seen as debilitated or hindered or negatively affected forever?
I don't see it panning out in the charts either. I think some put too much emphasis upon it and make it a bigger deal than it really is.
I do make not of a stationing planet as it is essentially sitting in that one place for awhile. When Mercury or Venus or Mars makes a station, I see it as significant.
But just having Saturn retro or Jupiter retro, means very little, in my opinion.
When Mars is retrograde, EVERY NATIVE born within that several months has retro Mars. Can everyone of those millions be seen as debilitated or hindered or negatively affected forever?
I don't see it panning out in the charts either. I think some put too much emphasis upon it and make it a bigger deal than it really is.
I do make not of a stationing planet as it is essentially sitting in that one place for awhile. When Mercury or Venus or Mars makes a station, I see it as significant.
But just having Saturn retro or Jupiter retro, means very little, in my opinion.
obsidianmineral
Well-known member
I will probably get tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but I do not see retrograde planets as being very significant.
When Mars is retrograde, EVERY NATIVE born within that several months has retro Mars. Can everyone of those millions be seen as debilitated or hindered or negatively affected forever?
I don't see it panning out in the charts either. I think some put too much emphasis upon it and make it a bigger deal than it really is.
I do make not of a stationing planet as it is essentially sitting in that one place for awhile. When Mercury or Venus or Mars makes a station, I see it as significant.
But just having Saturn retro or Jupiter retro, means very little, in my opinion.
Well, the planets do stay in signs for a long time as well so I think that could be of little importance too if you're saying retrogrades aren't important either. Saturn is in a sign for 2-3 years, the Sun is for a month, Mars for around 2 months, etc. so I believe we need to see planetary positions and their movement as minor factors perhaps. Maybe accidental dignities and debilities are more important and other factors are more essential to a natal chart than signs.
waybread
Well-known member
The modern outer planets are retrograde a lot of the time. So is Mercury, because it is faster than the sun but never more than 30 degrees away from it.
The modern interpretation is that the energies of a retrograde planet are turned inward. Hence, Mercury retrograde people tend to be very introspective. They will mull disparate facts over in the minds in order find the key that makes sense of them. Mars retrograde people can be very hard on themselves, because their natural assertiveness and aggression gets turned inward.
Oftentimes a natal retrograde planet will turn direct by progression.
The modern interpretation is that the energies of a retrograde planet are turned inward. Hence, Mercury retrograde people tend to be very introspective. They will mull disparate facts over in the minds in order find the key that makes sense of them. Mars retrograde people can be very hard on themselves, because their natural assertiveness and aggression gets turned inward.
Oftentimes a natal retrograde planet will turn direct by progression.
UraSatVen1029
Well-known member
What if that retrograde planet is in its fall, in a house that is opposite to the ruler of their domicile (?) sign, and in a critical degree?
Example: my Saturn in Aries, 4th house, 29th degree.
Is it... really bad?
Example: my Saturn in Aries, 4th house, 29th degree.
Is it... really bad?
D-Rok
Well-known member
Let me give you an example of what an Rx planet can do.
My ascendant is ruled by Saturn. He’s good (to me). He is highly dignified by rulership and safe in the 11th house of good fortune — probably the one place he doesn’t want to be since it’s the house of GOOD fortune. In other words, he has to be nice.
But, he is also Retrograde. Having the ruler of the ascendant Rx is never a really good thing. It can (*can*) indicate shortness of life, or (more commonly felt on my end) denial and slowness of progress due to self-doubt, indecisiveness, and inability to stick with or commit to something, which slows down progress pretty considerably. This has manifested into indecisiveness about work and career in the past, as well as school and overall many of my decisions that require responsibility and commitment. I have often gotten more “no” from life than “yes” (up until recently) and it gets pretty frustrating because I often think there is something wrong with me. It’s just how it is. I can’t imagine the mistakes I’d make if he somehow ruled the ascendant while being in one of his weaker homes. All that said, it seems to provide a longer, windy road to the same destination, compared to a straight one-way road that’s quicker and easier. They still end up at the same spots but there’s some unnecessarily added junk in there. That’s my take, anyway.
I’ve heard Rx planets are essentially at odds with themselves, taking longer to do something than they would if not Rx. Additionally, ancient texts also indicate that in horaries, a retrograde planet can signify something sudden or unexpected, or not turning out how it properly should be expected. I am not a pro with horary but ultimately a planet that is Rx can be a little/a lot problematic.
UraSatVen1029
Well-known member
Saturn is also my ascendant's ruler. In Aries, 4th house, 29th degree. Plus, it's involved in multiple t-squares to my Sun-Venus, Uranus and Neptune. And then... Saturn squares my Neptune 1st house in a hella tight aspect, just a few minutes, less than 1 degree orb. It's Rx.
*sighs deeply* I clearly have a lot to work on. Loads.
I've also observed that its energy can turn inwards too. I also have Jupiter Rx. 3rd house. Expanding, yes, but its internal. So i'm guessing its the same with the other planets. Indecisiveness and slowness of progress seems right as well, if I relate it to my own experiences. But it's most likely die to the fact that Saturn is badly aspecting a lot of things in my chart.
UraSatVen1029
Well-known member
I will probably get tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but I do not see retrograde planets as being very significant.
When Mars is retrograde, EVERY NATIVE born within that several months has retro Mars. Can everyone of those millions be seen as debilitated or hindered or negatively affected forever?
I don't see it panning out in the charts either. I think some put too much emphasis upon it and make it a bigger deal than it really is.
I do make not of a stationing planet as it is essentially sitting in that one place for awhile. When Mercury or Venus or Mars makes a station, I see it as significant.
But just having Saturn retro or Jupiter retro, means very little, in my opinion.
Why do you think so?
D-Rok
Well-known member
Try not to worry about Uranus and Neptune doing stuff to Saturn for you.
I’m serious.
If however Saturn is squaring your Sun and Venus as you said, then those things will be difficult. Also, if your Venus is close to the Sun then that is either under the Sun’s beams or combust, another difficult aspect. Having Jupiter Retrograde in a cadent house can also be bothersome, though maybe it might not be awful since he is in cadence and not, say, angular. I don’t remember the rule on that sort of thing.
UraSatVen1029
Well-known member
Woops. I should have rephrased that. Saturn is opposing Sun-Venus in 10th house. Sun and Venus are about 16 minutes apart. Another person told me it's considered a Cazimi, but the orb is debatable and varies with different astrologers too. So eh.
I would have been less worried if my Rx Saturn was not in Aries and 4th house. And maybe also if it had better aspects. Saturn is already like, bringing some delays and restrictions in my life, but to add that Retrograde influence it's like saying... it even slows down the progress all the more or something.
Jupiter is in Pisces 3rd house. I actually like the inward energy here. Yeah, it has that slow progress and indirect influence but the wisdom, spiritual and mental stuff that I process daily are insightful and expanding. A lot of re-evaluating happening here in my 2nd/3rd house. (lol it's at the end of my 2nd house but I consider it 3rd house).
A looot of people have Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in retrograde though. Right? I came across a person with all of those in retrograde, including Mercury! Another one too, expect hers was Venus Rx. Both are interesting people as well. I keep reading how Mercury Rx can make the chart holder have difficulty expressing their intelligence and etc. and some claim that Mercury Rx can make one insecure of their own mental capabilities. Because it's not expressed the same way as the others with Merc direct. Hmm.
Oddity
Well-known member
Mercury is the closest planet to the sun, so one needs to take a few more things into consideration.
Is Mercury stationing direct? Is it in phasis? In a cardinal sign? A mute sign? Angular? Cadent?
Granted, those things can be true of other retrograde planets, but you most often see stations and phasis with Mercury.
All of it is going to affect your delineation. No, Mercury retrograde doesn't necessarily make you an introvert or a hopeless communicator. Depending on its condition, it may end up being one of the most important planets in your life.
When it's technically combust, it's in service to the sun, the light of mind. Depending on other conditions, that's not always a bad thing. Your mind will probably be quite good. The houses that Mercury rules may bring you trouble, but it won't be for your lack of being able to think or speak.
Is Mercury stationing direct? Is it in phasis? In a cardinal sign? A mute sign? Angular? Cadent?
Granted, those things can be true of other retrograde planets, but you most often see stations and phasis with Mercury.
All of it is going to affect your delineation. No, Mercury retrograde doesn't necessarily make you an introvert or a hopeless communicator. Depending on its condition, it may end up being one of the most important planets in your life.
When it's technically combust, it's in service to the sun, the light of mind. Depending on other conditions, that's not always a bad thing. Your mind will probably be quite good. The houses that Mercury rules may bring you trouble, but it won't be for your lack of being able to think or speak.
D-Rok
Well-known member
The thing with astrology is that it is a divine science of the heavens speaking to us (quite literally). It’s not just “ooh I’m smart/introverted/butterfly etc.”. It is YOUR EXISTENCE in a map. When will you die? How will you live? Your health? It’s not just a alternative Sigmund Freud crossword puzzle for your cognition. It is EVERYTHING. Especially your decisions, and how you act/react which will lead you down the paths that the planets ruling over your houses provide for you.
That said, I know I’ve provided some cookie-cutter ideas, but as I’m just a novice i can’t really pin-point with precision what things may come. Jupiter in Pisces is fine. 3rd house stuff is writing, occult (please read as HIDDEN) religion/faith, day-to-day commute as well as siblings and stuff.
Saturn is obnoxious with Rx — I don’t remember the exact amount of time but he is retrograde for like 50% of the year or something. He is a jerk. Jupiter I don’t know as much about in that regard. I don’t pay attention to the outer planets past Saturn because I practice traditional astrology.
Mercury Rx or what have you — it’s not always something soft and buttery like “difficulty communicating thoughts” — sometimes this manifests as diseases, like Parkinson’s, a stutter, or Tourette’s (this isn’t cookie-cutter for Mercury Rx, but things can develop like that based on certain positions/planetary strengths). I’m not saying that’s what you have, I’m just saying your chart is your life laid out, and everything good and bad that can or will occur is in plain sight provided you can translate it.
That’s why I take it so seriously.
obsidianmineral
Well-known member
Saturn is not a jerk. Not everything is black and white.
Retrograde planets stay retrograde for a long period, so the fact that you're in conflict with yourself and with goals has to do more with your chart in its entirety than with the accidental debility of the planet. Assuming otherwise would implicate the mere position of Saturn affected millions of people everyday for 50% of the year.
You have to respect the fact that others use outers. I don't use them in horary personally and with good reason, but I consider they're of importance in natal charts.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
D-Rok
Well-known member
NEVERTHELESS
from a Traditional perspective
Thanks JUP.
To add, a very good friend of mine mentioned that Queen Elizabeth (the longest ruling Monarch) has a pretty powerful Saturn in the first house. She became queen — due to Saturn — but also took her father at a very early age to do that.
Remember how I mentioned Saturn’s “equivalent exchange” similar to FMA? Yeah it’s like that. You get something, but you get something else (often of greater importance to you) taken away.
Like, would you rather have your dad, or would you rather be a queen? Personally, I’ve never been a ruler so I wouldn’t be missing much. But to lose my father would be...awful.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
FROM AN HELLENISTIC PERSPECTIVE
when a planet is in the interval of first station to second station
i.e. retrograde
the planet is "not fit to conduct its business"
because it is described as “walking backwards”. VETTIUS VALENS
IN CONTRAST
When a planet is making a Station and/or phasis
it is not only capable of appearing but is also intensified
as Robert Schmidt of Project Hindsight says
Phasis means “making an appearance”
or
“sudden dramatic showing of something”.
It can also mean “something that speaks”
or
“an appearance that speaks”.
HELLENISTIC astrologers described a Retrograde planet as "walking backwards"
and therefore unable to conduct its business aka unable to work well.
EXCEPT under the special circumstances
when that planet makes a station
and is for example, stationary Retrograde
THEN that planet is intensified
because it is "making an appearance"
and "dramatically showing something"
a stationary Retrograde planet
is dramatically drawing attention to something.
obsidianmineral
Well-known member
If you pay the highest of prices for anything then you absolutely deserve it. You're responsible for what you think, do and say and if it happens that the worst of things happen to you as a result of being careless or making any mistake, then that's on you, because it's your responsibility as a person to be careful. Saturn may be harsh, but do you honestly think that you would be able to learn anything if things were soft and fun? Absolutely not, this is why we need bad things to happen to us. When parents tell their children to not do drugs and to be hard working it doesn't work a lot of times because that's not Saturn. Saturn is a great planet because he's the one who makes the abovesaid children go through poverty and through misery so they learn why it's important to be hard working.
Accept there are lessons you will only learn if you're in poverty and going through misery. For example, having a terminal disease will teach you the value of life and of the beauty that's in life and that 99% don't notice in their ordinary life. There really is a good side to everything, that's my point.
D-Rok
Well-known member
This is a troll post right? When I’m being mugged or assaulted or shot for no reason I’ll remember these great lessons that could have saved me. But now that I had something miserable happen to me which made my life worse than it started, I feel more enlightened!
Saturn is great — to the people born under him. To the rest, well, that is another story.