Saturn is still in Libra !

Tar Gorthaur

New member
In fact, Saturn as for today, 31.08.2015, appears to be in Libra sign and not in Scorpio in the sky. You can check it out at solarsystemscope (use veiw from the earth mode). So the question is, why if in the sky Saturn is in Libra, as it is seen from the Earth, it is considered to be in Scorpio 5th degree ? Am i missing something ?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In fact, Saturn as for today, 31.08.2015, appears to be in Libra sign and not in Scorpio in the sky.
You can check it out at solarsystemscope (use veiw from the earth mode).
So the question is, why if in the sky Saturn is in Libra, as it is seen from the Earth,
it is considered to be in Scorpio 5th degree ? Am i missing something ?
In today's world Tar Gorthaur, most online amateur astrologers rely on computer software
and are unfamiliar with the night skies
as viewed from a personal perspective at their own locality :smile:
that's because many of us a resident in cities which often have very large buildings blocking out the skies completely
then at night time there is light pollution from the city lights which makes a clear view of the skies difficult to find.

and so
many astrologers simply do not know that there is a difference between TROPICAL astrology charts
and SIDEREAL astrology chart

The difference is described visually on this brief video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related
 

Tar Gorthaur

New member
Yes, you are right about difficulties of observing stars and planets in the night sky as far as big cities concerned. And the video is quite informative, however it doesn't give the answer on my question =) I reckon it has to do with the boundaries of the signs along ecliptic and a fact, that the signs are not equal in length, though i have not found any information with respect to boundaries of astrological signs so far. This information could clarify the situation i believe.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yes, you are right about difficulties of observing stars and planets in the night sky as far as big cities concerned. And the video is quite informative, however it doesn't give the answer on my question =) I reckon it has to do with the boundaries of the signs along ecliptic and a fact, that the signs are not equal in length, though i have not found any information with respect to boundaries of astrological signs so far. This information could clarify the situation i believe.
The TROPICAL ZODIAC's origin is that it originally was a CALENDAR OF THE SEASONS
and nothing to do with 'astrology' :smile:

Most people in the Western Hemisphere think of their astrological signs based on the Tropical zodiac,
which is a math-only based system of division with the zero point starting at the Vernal Equinox.

and so
2015 when the Sun crossed the ecliptic it was the first day of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere.
Newborns of the following day are told that they have an Aries Sun SIGN. And they shall Tropically.


BUT IF
as you have already highlighted
one observed the skies at SUNRISE
BEFORE the sun appears above the horizon
and note where the Sun actually was at that moment
one would note the Sun about to 'rise' in the 5th/6th degree of the constellation Pisces.


Sidereal Astrologers use the physical Zodiac which consists of 12 constellations.
So when the Sun crosses the ecliptic on the first day of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere
the sun is physically in the constellation of Pisces AND NOT the constellation Aries.

BUT
Tropical Astrology is based on the calendar of the seasons
hence Tropical Astrology is described as 'seasonal'
although there are immediately obvious issues with the fact that in the Southern Hemisphere
the seasons are reversed

This could explain why a particular individual 'is different from' all those other “Aries” born at the end of the month.

but then alternatively, an individual could have other planets in Aries that provide those associations with Aries.
One needs to check one's natal sidereal chart to know how many planets are in each constellation
and then decide for oneself which makes more sense
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
Yes, you are right about difficulties of observing stars and planets in the night sky as far as big cities concerned. And the video is quite informative, however it doesn't give the answer on my question =) I reckon it has to do with the boundaries of the signs along ecliptic and a fact, that the signs are not equal in length, though i have not found any information with respect to boundaries of astrological signs so far. This information could clarify the situation i believe.


Yes you have answered your question correctly. Some folks claim that in the beginning (when was that...?) demarcating boundary stars were utilized but that seems all arbitrary as is the case with much of astrology -- a cosmic symbology that we find useful on earth.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Crystalpages, what's your opinion on the Sidereal and Tropical 'conundrum'? :smile:

Obviously sidereal Vedic delineation has a different approach from western tropical

and
so for example
one wonders how Tropical astrology is claimed to 'work' in the Southern Hemisphere if Tropical is admittedly seasonal
 

Crystalpages

Well-known member
Crystalpages, what's your opinion on the Sidereal and Tropical 'conundrum'? :smile:

Obviously sidereal Vedic delineation has a different approach from western tropical

and
so for example
one wonders how Tropical astrology is claimed to 'work' in the Southern Hemisphere if Tropical is admittedly seasonal


Those who 'claim' and love to waste their time with conundrums are the ones you should be asking, not me ;-)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Those who 'claim' and love to waste their time with conundrums are the ones you should be asking, not me ;-)
Those who claim that conundrums are a waste of time
are not necessarily correct
it's their opinion
however if you have no opinion or answer to the question then that's fine
you commented on the thread, so obviously may have had something to say on the subject
however
obviously not

Meanwhile if any other readers of this thread has an opinion on the way the two systems of Sidereal and Tropical
are so different
and its effects on astrological delineation
then do comment :smile:
 

Tar Gorthaur

New member
It's not about the difference between sidereal and tropical zodiacs (of course the only "right" is sidereal), but about the relation between zodiac signs and 360 degrees ecliptic.

So, if you look at Saturn in the night sky now you'll see that indeed it is in Libra constellation and not in Scorpio.

But it turns out that constellations and zodiac signs are two different stories and have different boundaries.

So, from the astrological point of view, Saturn is in Scorpio, meaning it is situated in a portion of ecliptic that has been assigned to this sign. The signs start from aries and each is 30 degrees long on ecliptic, although signs themeselves (constellations composed of stars) are not of equal length, hence my initial confusion.
 

dhundhun

Well-known member
In fact, Saturn as for today, 31.08.2015, appears to be in Libra sign and not in Scorpio in the sky. You can check it out at solarsystemscope (use veiw from the earth mode). So the question is, why if in the sky Saturn is in Libra, as it is seen from the Earth, it is considered to be in Scorpio 5th degree ? Am i missing something ?

The "solarsystemscope" might be a piece of junk. The astrologers and most of the software (publishers) get data feed from Swiss Ephemaries.
 
Last edited:

Crystalpages

Well-known member
BINGO! The absence of actual visible marker stars at the intersections (cusps) of signs is what creates confusing conundrums on internet <LOL>

It's not about the difference between sidereal and tropical zodiacs (of course the only "right" is sidereal), but about the relation between zodiac signs and 360 degrees ecliptic.

So, if you look at Saturn in the night sky now you'll see that indeed it is in Libra constellation and not in Scorpio.

But it turns out that constellations and zodiac signs are two different stories and have different boundaries.

So, from the astrological point of view, Saturn is in Scorpio, meaning it is situated in a portion of ecliptic that has been assigned to this sign. The signs start from aries and each is 30 degrees long on ecliptic, although signs themeselves (constellations composed of stars) are not of equal length, hence my initial confusion.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It's not about the difference between sidereal and tropical zodiacs (of course the only "right" is sidereal), but about the relation between zodiac signs and 360 degrees ecliptic.

So, if you look at Saturn in the night sky now you'll see that indeed it is in Libra constellation and not in Scorpio.

But it turns out that constellations and zodiac signs are two different stories and have different boundaries.

So, from the astrological point of view, Saturn is in Scorpio, meaning it is situated in a portion of ecliptic that has been assigned to this sign.
The signs start from aries and each is 30 degrees long on ecliptic, although signs themeselves (constellations composed of stars) are not of equal length, hence my initial confusion.
What a conundrum!
You have precisely verified my initial comment
:smile:
the difference is described visually on this brief video at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-...eature=related
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

The "solarsystemscope" might be a peace of junk.

The astrologers and most of the software (publishers) get data feed from Swiss Ephemaries.

That's as good a theory as any
:smile:


maxresdefault.jpg
 
Top