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  #26  
Unread 11-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

(not only on angles).
The outer planets don't have consensus on dignity- yes we ("moderns")
not only know that but also agree with!
nevertheless, they still have an effect and work, just like arabic parts
and lunar nodes.
Can't hear it anymore as well as the discussion about Lilly or Frawley...
AND this is a thread about a horary chart
not about modern vs. traditional methods.
well nevertheless
you may view this as some kind of this vs that
however
it is important to recognise
that without using traditional methods horary cannot be delineated

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  #27  
Unread 11-12-2019, 12:30 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

Yes pluto is a drarf or comet...
and the sun is now a star and the moon is a satellite!
so agreed dwarf planet pluto may be a comet
also keep in mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

Pluto doesn't reflect light....Pluto doesn't carry a message for us.....
You can't see pluto with the naked eye.

There are thousands of Pluto Like objects in the orbit of the sun, so
....if we are using pluto we should be using those planets too.

The problem si that we assume that because pluto is in our solar system, it should be added to our astrological calculations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

.... in my case I don't consider neptune/uranus either for anything at all.

Almost everything that this 3 planets "represent", can be explained by
the placement of other planets in the charts.
Or even using the fixed stars, something that doesn't exist in modern astrology.
We assume that they represent something, because like I said, they

belong to what we call "the solar system", our backyard, sort of speak
...So we think that since they are so big, they must mean something.

Astrology is born in ancient egypt/greece, by tracking the movements of the 2 luminaries
and the 5 errant stars, along with the placement of the fixed stars and constellations:
Sun and moon + mercury/venus/mars/jupiter/saturn + stars
Neptune...uranus...unfortunatly they should mean nothing to us in astrology
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Unread 11-12-2019, 12:32 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

The traditional significator of 8th house occupations is mars
explain what is meant by "the traditional significator of the 8th house"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

- and in this chart in aspect and reception with jupiter.
Maybe I understand that question as different as Aria.
To have connections with could just mean that he knows some people
but doesn't mean necessarily for me that he's totally involved in criminal activities
or it's his main business.
That's why Jupiter in his own rulership
I don't automatically interpret as a No.
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  #29  
Unread 11-12-2019, 12:45 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
@Jupiter
The traditional significator of 8th house occupations is mars - and in this chart in aspect and reception with jupiter. Maybe I understand that question as different as Aria. To have connections with could just mean that he knows some people but doesn't mean necessarily for me that he's totally involved in criminal activities or it's his main business. That's why Jupiter in his own rulership I don't automatically interpret as a No.

you are saying that:"The traditional significator of 8th house occupations is mars"

The bulk of the tradition assigns planetary rulerships according to the ancient Chaldean astronomical order of the planets (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon; the former order of the planets in distance from Earth geocentrically):

Each planet has a natural association with a certain house.That is not the same as being the ruler of that house.The ruler of a house in each particular chart will be the planet which rules the sign on the cusp of that house.

Natural associations are something else: the quality of the planet corresponds with the quality of that house. The first planet is associated with the first house, the second planet – with the second house, and so on. So we see that Venus, as the planet of love and sex, is naturally associated with the 5th house. Sun, as the natural significator of fathers – with the 4th, etc. After we have gone through the houses 1-7, the order is repeated: the first planet is associated with the 8th house, the 2nd planet – with the 9th house, and so on.

so traditionally speaking 8th house is naturally associated with saturn.


Astrological anatomy is the only area in traditional astrology where the houses have the same meanings as the signs.... the human body starting with Aries (head) and ending with Pisces (feet).

so Scorpio rules 8th house: organs of excretion, anus.

aside that: 8th house IS RELATED TO:death, other people's money, inheritance, fear and anguish, poisons, organs of excretion.

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  #30  
Unread 11-12-2019, 12:59 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

that without using traditional methods horary cannot be delineated

Yes of course! Never disagreed with that
explain what is meant by "the traditional significator of the 8th house"
=ruler...and you know what I mean. Sorry but english isn't my native language.

AND this is a thread about a horary chart !!!
Why you don't just stop counting beans and tell us your analysis of the chart?
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  #31  
Unread 11-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

(not only on angles).
The outer planets don't have consensus on dignity- yes we ("moderns")
not only know that but also agree with!
nevertheless, they still have an effect and work, just like arabic parts
and lunar nodes.
Can't hear it anymore as well as the discussion about Lilly or Frawley...
AND this is a thread about a horary chart
not about modern vs. traditional methods.
well nevertheless
you may view this as some kind of this vs that
however
it is important to recognise
that without using traditional methods horary cannot be delineated

Yes of course! Never disagreed with that
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
explain what is meant by "the traditional significator of the 8th house"
=ruler
...and you know what I mean. Sorry but english isn't my native language.
Why you don't just stop counting beans
and tell us your analysis of the chart?
Aria Venues response highlighting traditional factors is ideal complete explanation
why 8th house has no "permanent ruler"

by the way
not your fault that English is an issue and not easy for you
and not blaming you for it
just wondering which language you are most familiar with
- often these misunderstandings are based on language
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  #32  
Unread 11-12-2019, 01:16 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

Why you don't just stop counting beans and tell us your analysis of the chart?
because of AJs useful comments
i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

Hi ElenaJ,
Before introducing irrelevant celestial bodies,
you'll probably want to pin down the correct house to answer the question.

Hi lux111,
I do not believe so.
Umar would tell you to use H4, because
you have a suspicion or matter that you want to know would be true or not.

If your suspicions are based on a rumor, then
H5 might be the appropriate house.

H8 can be used for fear.

Another possibility is his H10 dealing with honor.
Is he an honorable man? His H10 is your H4.

You might want to pose a question in the Horary Technique section

to help determine which house is appropriate for your question, especially since
the house will also determine the correct significator for your question.
we need to find agreement on which house
then assigning the significators
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  #33  
Unread 11-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

so @ kalinka
decide to which houses the question is assigned
obviously Querent is 1st house so that's simple

but
then

AJ states that 4th house is the relevant house for this question

not 8th
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  #34  
Unread 11-12-2019, 01:55 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Yes we look at the 4th house , his 10th. As I said mars is placed in the 10th. We not only look at the ruler of the house rather also which planets are maybe placed in that house. Venus is a beneficial planet but with mercury in mutual reception by term and detriment. Mars is the significant planet here, which is the indicator for a connection with the mafia by sextile with jupiter. Mercury is in scorpio and peregrine, so she thinks about that matter and maybe does have fears. When I talk about Mars I mean his association with 8th house and scorpio matters. Mars is ruler of his 12th ,4th and 5th. So perhaps this connection is due to his family. For example if we want to know if my love interest is involved with someone else - We don't only look at the houses and their rulers, often it's a significant aspect plus reception with the significator of the quesited, which indicates a connection.

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Unread 11-12-2019, 03:36 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


Yes we look at the 4th house ,
so 4th house using WHOLE SIGNS is Virgo
Virgo is domicile of Mercury
BUT
Lilly uses Regiomontanus
so going with Regiomontanus houses
REGIOMONTANUS 4th is LIBRA ruled by VENUS
ASCENDANT representing QUERENT is GEMINI ruler MERCURY

Mercury and Venus are in DISREGARD aka AVERSION
NOT IN ASPECT

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


his 10th. As I said mars is placed in the 10th. We not only look at the ruler of the house rather also which planets are maybe placed in that house. Venus is a beneficial planet but with mercury in mutual reception by term and detriment. Mars is the significant planet here, which is the indicator for a connection with the mafia by sextile with jupiter. Mercury is in scorpio and peregrine, so she thinks about that matter and maybe does have fears. When I talk about Mars I mean his association with 8th house and scorpio matters. Mars is ruler of his 12th ,4th and 5th. So perhaps this connection is due to his family. For example if we want to know if my love interest is involved with someone else - We don't only look at the houses and their rulers, often it's a significant aspect plus reception with the significator of the quesited, which indicates a connection.
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  #36  
Unread 11-12-2019, 10:10 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Yes we look at the 4th house , his 10th. As I said mars is placed in the 10th. We not only look at the ruler of the house rather also which planets are maybe placed in that house. Venus is a beneficial planet but with mercury in mutual reception by term and detriment. Mars is the significant planet here, which is the indicator for a connection with the mafia by sextile with jupiter. Mercury is in scorpio and peregrine, so she thinks about that matter and maybe does have fears. When I talk about Mars I mean his association with 8th house and scorpio matters. Mars is ruler of his 12th ,4th and 5th. So perhaps this connection is due to his family. For example if we want to know if my love interest is involved with someone else - We don't only look at the houses and their rulers, often it's a significant aspect plus reception with the significator of the quesited, which indicates a connection.
Dear kalinka
it seems that my previous comments didn't help you understand the difference between planets and natural association with houses, traditionally speaking...and this is why you keep repeating that:When I talk about Mars I mean his association with 8th house and scorpio matters."

so once more: mars is not associated traditionally with the 8th house !!!! what you keep saying is modern rulership.8th house traditionally is associated with saturn, so this is why also saturn is natural ruler of death(among other things also), not accidental significator.I hope you understand the difference between natural significators and accidental significators.So mars as a natural significator is related to many things such as : police, war, murder, passion, brothers, chimneys, knifes, blood, criminal, wounds, scorpio,gall bladder,red color, bood and wounds, male genitals....and so many more and again It is naturally associated with houses 3 and 10.Besides that...mars is regarded also as malefic ...as also saturn of cource, while venus and jupiter as benefics!

So let's see here this mars for a moment.So we have a mars which rules radix 6th, 10th, 11th or his turned, 12th,4th and fifth.
and a querent=peregrine, cazimi, in his turned 12th(5 degrees rule again)... so spooking hidden in the shadows(since cannot be seen as being in total proximity to the sun) which surprisingly has not yet responded to this thread so far to tell us...what is the main reason that initiated her to ask this vague question ...and i am saying vague cause clearly according to her sayings :"I feel like there’s something unusual in this chart but I can’t put my finger on it, can someone tell me if anything stands out?.....So I’m Mercury and he is Jupiter and we don’t aspect so.. not mafia. But I’m cazimi in the 5th, as if I’m aware of and protected from something....The cusp of his 10th house of work is exact on his MC, and the lord, Venus, is in his 12th house of secrets. A woman..? She *is* in his sign and between us... and about to come meet him in his 1st house. ...."

so forgive me but i have the feeling that she is snooping in her ex she sees that cazimi and she wonders: why am i cazimi?does this mean that i am actually protected from my ex, since i have some suspicions that since he is from italy he might be implicated to the mob? well mayby he is not actually ...but again i see a woman between us both..."

and then we are trying to figure whether he has dealings with the mob,or whether his job as venus in sag in illegal..or unethical. So is this mars really the mob as natural sig for criminals, while the same moment you claim that mayby his parents, or his father, are criminals as his turned 4th house...but of cource mars could also be many other things also as his turned fifth of cource..but let' s stick to what you said regarding turned 4th and 10th

This mars has dignity from term, though in his detriment, is placed not in radix 4th but in radix 5th or in his turned 11th (5 degrees rule again, since mars= 24*54 libra on spica!!!!, while 5th cusp is on 28*41 libra),is in venus domicile and Saturn's exaltation and sun's fall.

So the italian mob , or his parents, as the criminals, are totally depended on his job=venus which by the way is in his domicile-jupiter's , actually they are essentially debilitated, though they have dignity from term...but also accidentally strengthened by spica.

So as it seems according to your thinking, these criminals are inside his turned 11th and not in his turned 10th as you also said, so let's say among his friends...if they are not his parents, or his father, as his 4th turned as you said... and they codependent on his descent job=venus and his pocket=saturn, or his communication, his 3rd of course to make a living.

well i am astonished if this guy has indeed so much power upon the italian mob, which by the way doesn't seem quite powerful...although strengthened by spica

So mayby he actually does Money laundering for the italian mob and this venus over there as natural sig for clothes, fabrics ...etc could be related
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  #37  
Unread 11-12-2019, 11:39 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Dear kalinka
......so spooking hidden in the shadows(since cannot be seen as being in total proximity to the sun)

which surprisingly has not yet responded to this thread so far

to tell us...what is the main reason that initiated her to ask this vague question

...and i am saying vague cause clearly according to her sayings :
"I feel like there’s something unusual in this chart
but I can’t put my finger on it, can someone tell me if anything stands out?
.....So I’m Mercury and he is Jupiter and we don’t aspect so.. not mafia.
But I’m cazimi in the 5th, as if I’m aware of and protected from something...."
Indeed - certainly "what stands out" is it IS a very strange question
we need reassurance from Querent that mafia has not caused any strife to her
and she has seen one soap opera episode too many
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  #38  
Unread 11-12-2019, 11:56 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

whether traditonal or natural significator or ruler...what I wanted to say is: criminals, mafia, the 8th house are related to scorpio, which planet rulers are mars and pluto(modern ruler).
Mercury and Venus are in DISREGARD aka AVERSION
NOT IN ASPECT

According to Frawley receptions do work without aspects.
I'm not seeing this mars as strong as well. Mars doesn't seem to have the dominant role in his life. She asked about A CONNECTION. So Mars could be only one person (of the mob) or also a group of person.I am not knowledgeable about the "italian mafia" but I think there is more than only one "mafia" .You're talking about co-dependency. I would only seeing this between saturn (his pocket)and mars because of the mutual reception. Let's say Mars could be a group of person due to his 11th ,5th or 4th house. There is a connection and sometimes he does laundering money for or with them .And as you said Mars is very interested in Venus. Maybe these activities are due to his job. It would be interesting to know which real intentions the querent did have when she cast that chart. If she did already asked him about that mafia matter and why this question about another woman....

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  #39  
Unread 11-13-2019, 06:01 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Indeed - certainly "what stands out" is it IS a very strange question
we need reassurance from Querent that mafia has not caused any strife to her
and she has seen one soap opera episode too many
Jupitersac, if you live in the south of Italy it is not unusual to be witness to or meet up with shocking situations that are mafia related. You don't need to watch TV. I am confident the querent did see some things that made her question it.
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Unread 11-13-2019, 11:37 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Jupitersac, if you live in the south of Italy it is not unusual to be witness to
or meet up with shocking situations that are mafia related.
You don't need to watch TV.
I am confident the querent did see some things that made her question it.
mafia is active in US also
and mafia watches soap operas as well
however
only OP can say with authority what OP has witnessed
so would be excellent if OP would respond with an update
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Unread 11-13-2019, 11:40 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
whether traditonal or natural significator or ruler...what I wanted to say is: criminals, mafia, the 8th house are related to scorpio, which planet rulers are mars and pluto(modern ruler).
Mercury and Venus are in DISREGARD aka AVERSION
NOT IN ASPECT

According to Frawley receptions do work without aspects.
I'm not seeing this mars as strong as well. Mars doesn't seem to have the dominant role in his life. She asked about A CONNECTION. So Mars could be only one person (of the mob) or also a group of person.I am not knowledgeable about the "italian mafia" but I think there is more than only one "mafia" .You're talking about co-dependency. I would only seeing this between saturn (his pocket)and mars because of the mutual reception. Let's say Mars could be a group of person due to his 11th ,5th or 4th house. There is a connection and sometimes he does laundering money for or with them .And as you said Mars is very interested in Venus. Maybe these activities are due to his job.


It would be interesting to know which real intentions the querent did have

when she cast that chart.



If she did already asked him about that mafia matter and why this question about another woman....
we need a response update from the Querent
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Unread 11-13-2019, 02:38 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Dear kalinka
it seems that my previous comments didn't help you understand the difference between planets and natural association with houses, traditionally speaking...and this is why you keep repeating that:When I talk about Mars I mean his association with 8th house and scorpio matters."

so once more: mars is not associated traditionally with the 8th house !!!! what you keep saying is modern rulership.8th house traditionally is associated with saturn, so this is why also saturn is natural ruler of death(among other things also), not accidental significator.I hope you understand the difference between natural significators and accidental significators.So mars as a natural significator is related to many things such as : police, war, murder, passion, brothers, chimneys, knifes, blood, criminal, wounds, scorpio,gall bladder,red color, bood and wounds, male genitals....and so many more and again It is naturally associated with houses 3 and 10.Besides that...mars is regarded also as malefic ...as also saturn of cource, while venus and jupiter as benefics!

So let's see here this mars for a moment.So we have a mars which rules radix 6th, 10th, 11th or his turned, 12th,4th and fifth.
and a querent=peregrine, cazimi, in his turned 12th(5 degrees rule again)... so spooking hidden in the shadows(since cannot be seen as being in total proximity to the sun) which surprisingly has not yet responded to this thread so far to tell us...what is the main reason that initiated her to ask this vague question ...and i am saying vague cause clearly according to her sayings :"I feel like thereís something unusual in this chart but I canít put my finger on it, can someone tell me if anything stands out?.....So Iím Mercury and he is Jupiter and we donít aspect so.. not mafia. But Iím cazimi in the 5th, as if Iím aware of and protected from something....The cusp of his 10th house of work is exact on his MC, and the lord, Venus, is in his 12th house of secrets. A woman..? She *is* in his sign and between us... and about to come meet him in his 1st house. ...."

so forgive me but i have the feeling that she is snooping in her ex she sees that cazimi and she wonders: why am i cazimi?does this mean that i am actually protected from my ex, since i have some suspicions that since he is from italy he might be implicated to the mob? well mayby he is not actually ...but again i see a woman between us both..."

and then we are trying to figure whether he has dealings with the mob,or whether his job as venus in sag in illegal..or unethical. So is this mars really the mob as natural sig for criminals, while the same moment you claim that mayby his parents, or his father, are criminals as his turned 4th house...but of cource mars could also be many other things also as his turned fifth of cource..but let' s stick to what you said regarding turned 4th and 10th

This mars has dignity from term, though in his detriment, is placed not in radix 4th but in radix 5th or in his turned 11th (5 degrees rule again, since mars= 24*54 libra on spica!!!!, while 5th cusp is on 28*41 libra),is in venus domicile and Saturn's exaltation and sun's fall.

So the italian mob , or his parents, as the criminals, are totally depended on his job=venus which by the way is in his domicile-jupiter's , actually they are essentially debilitated, though they have dignity from term...but also accidentally strengthened by spica.

So as it seems according to your thinking, these criminals are inside his turned 11th and not in his turned 10th as you also said, so let's say among his friends...if they are not his parents, or his father, as his 4th turned as you said... and they codependent on his descent job=venus and his pocket=saturn, or his communication, his 3rd of course to make a living.

well i am astonished if this guy has indeed so much power upon the italian mob, which by the way doesn't seem quite powerful...although strengthened by spica

So mayby he actually does Money laundering for the italian mob and this venus over there as natural sig for clothes, fabrics ...etc could be related
Dear kalinka and Elena and to whoever reads this thread so far
i have to edit my last comment, cause it seems that this "fiction story" that i previously described, while was mainly aiming to give a "comic essence-tone" in this whole thread had the opposite results.
So let me state once more the following:
  1. in this chart for whatever reason the querent phrased the question whether her ex is implicated to italian mafia, mob, whatever , astrologically speaking following the rules that horary demands, and these rules are very clear not only in old books but also modern for example Frawley's- as also previously kalinka mentioned- and these rules are called traditional because horary is a traditional technic and stems from traditional origins and follows precisely and methodically whatever we nowdays call "traditional".....houses, degnities, reception etc...shows that her ex has no dealings with the Italian mob .why?
  2. when we ask such a question in astrological terms what we seek to see is whether the quesited ...which in this case is her ex and his job are unethical, or illegal...we dont seek whether he has an italian relative who works for mafia, or a friend cause this is irrelevant.So this can be seen from the actual dignities of jupiter and his job.In this case we have a strong essentially and accidentaly dignified Jupiter and a job which is also a dignified venus. Needless to say once more that both of them are considered benefics.AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE : lets say i was working for the police...so daily perhaps i would have to deal with criminals...does this make me also criminal? if there was such a question then astrologically speaking i should have been signified at least from a severely debilitated planet or a malefic as also mars, as natural sig for policeman etc..while judging of course all other testimonies at the specific chart..so its different to ask :" does someone comes in contact with criminals" to "is he unethical or corrupted"?dont mix these two different things...astrologically
  3. In order to the chart to give us a clue that her ex is implicated to such dealings we should have had a job in her fall, as for example a moon in scoprio...in that case we could say yes this man's job seems indeed a "bad job"meaning according to the actual question unethical or illegal
  4. this mars in his turned 11th also it could be many things, but not mafia...it could be relevant also to the querent.the reception we see between her ex's pocket or his 3rd to this mars has nothing also to do with the 8th house...unless this mars rules also his male genitals, his anus etc... Moreover his turned 8th is not saturn as you may see but this exalted moon in Taurus, which in our case belongs to the querent also
  5. i am not judging you for using outer planets, this is your method of cource and believe me if i have seen let's say pluto additionally to the aforementioned(a severely debilitated job for example or an l7 peregrine in a suspicious house) in dc or ic or conjunct jupiter of venus, i would have mentioned if he was playing any significant role and always treating him as a fixed star...as i already mentioned about mars on spica.
  6. But this is different of course from saying that venus is peregrine, that venus is at his turned 12th, that mercury and sun are in his turned 11th, that mercury in venus term-irrelevant, that mars relates to 8th house traditionally...etc....while none of these stands and i explained why in my previous comments
  7. So repeatedly Elena and kalinka you both misunderstood what I have just explained above using the traditional rules that horary dictates. You both used pluto, neptune, pallas, chiron in order to reach conclusions that are otherwise not seen using traditional horary. So it seems that you are attempting to apply modern opinions which have nothing to do with horary and which are more applicable to natal charts using a non-traditional approach of reading a nativity. It is important to clarify that Horary and natal are completely different ways of reading charts - and for that very reason horary and natal are on separate boards
  8. The most important factor using horary rules is that there is no connection between venus and mercury and even if it was i don't see why we must connect the querent with his job...if this was actually the initial question...and i am saying if this was her initial question because not only she hasn't responded yet to help us understand how this whole question was initiated, but there are also hints from her comments that this wasn't, in fact, the initial question.
  9. Don't you find strange how can someone who obviously doesn't know horary, can see the cazimi in a chart ...at least i am curious...and that tells me that for whatever reason she saw that... perhaps after reading a relative article about cazimi...she thought ...ohhhhh i am protected from something...the same time she was snooping at her ex...and she thinks...since my ex is from italy mayby he is implicated to italian mob...so i was lucky i broke up with him...
  10. and the same time we seem to forget that this mercury over there cannot see or be seen, he is peregrine, cadent, retrograde and the only thing that saves him from total combustion is this cazimi
  11. also her co-ruler moon exalted from Taurus in her radix 11th or his turned 5th (sex , love , fun etc..related to him) under venus domicile, which rules her radix 12th(her fears, self undoing...etc), 4th(home, parents ..etc...or his turned 1oth and so forth) and fifth(her interests related to sex, fun,..etc) in mars detriment which rules again his turned 4th, 5th and 12th.
  12. so once more don't you find odd that the querent with her feelings over exalted...and that means also exaggerated..happens to be in his turned 5th, while mercury in his turned 12th? what do you think she does over there?besides mercury by antiscion in radix 8th as also sun, and that tells also that our querent is in fear and anguish of mind.Also mercury in moon's fall and venus detriment...so is she really asking about his job or she just wonders what will happen between her and him...seeing also this venus in Jupiter's domicile and in his house?just saying here...is this mars which bothers her mafia or his turned fifth?
  13. if this mars was indeed criminals having dealings with him...i would have expected to find them in an antiscion related to him or his job perhaps, or hidden in his 12th..or stuff like that
  14. To sum up: no this guy seems to have no dealings with the mob or whatsoever.The fact that he may be from italy, south, north or what else, or if he has any relatives that work for the mafia, or friends...this doesn't mean he has dealings with the mob..and the actual question here was whether he is a member of mafia...so simple...if indeed there was such a question. The actual context and the lack of the background story of this question produces only confusion .An horary question requires exact phrasing and genuine interest - the Querent has not clearly phrased the question before posting it. ... in a way that at least we can describe it as being "vague"
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  #43  
Unread 11-13-2019, 03:22 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Both mars and pluto are significators of the mafia, as well as the 8th house, where pluto is located in the chart.
He is your -ex, and the person you are asking about, so he is the 7th and Jupiter. Jupiter here and strong by sign would signify he is basically an honest person, although that might sound like a contradiction.
He closely aspects both mars and pluto, and only these planets.
The MH is ruled by mars, and exactly conjunct Chiron. Pallas is at 1 sagittarius, located in the 6th of work in the chart, his 12th, and exactly trine Chiron/MH.
So, yes, it looks like he does have connections.
You write you have cause to believe this, not sure what type, how violent your experience is. You also don't mention in what area of Italy, but keep in mind there actually does exist what the locals refer to as the "good" mafia and the "bad" mafia. Which is not to say the mafia is good, and I am not condoning it, but they are not all involved in drugs/murder/extortion/violence, he could be part of this type of organisation. Mars in libra is weakened, and rules the MH which makes me suspect this might be the situation with him.
Why are you cazimi? Probably because you backed out (retrograde) of the relationship. When mercury goes direct you may be tempted to return, aspecting Jupiter again.
Sorry, I reread the postings here, and stand by this explanation that I originally wrote.
I'm not entering any discussions about the validity of modern vs traditional, not arriving at assumptions that he is Italian ipso facto he is mafia, and in addition, the question for me is quite clear, or rather the two questions.
"Is he connected to the mafia"? My reply is yes.
"Why am I cazimi"? My reply is this strengthened position helped the querent to remove herself from the situation.
To the final question everyone is asking, Where is the querent? Seems to have disappeared on us. No answer.
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Unread 11-13-2019, 03:38 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post

Sorry, I reread the postings here, and stand by this explanation
that I originally wrote.
I'm not entering any discussions about the validity of modern vs traditional,
not arriving at assumptions that he is Italian ipso facto he is mafia, and
in addition, the question for me is quite clear, or rather
the two questions.
"Is he connected to the mafia"? My reply is yes.
"Why am I cazimi"?
My reply is this strengthened position helped the querent to remove herself from the situation.
To the final question everyone is asking,
Where is the querent?
Seems to have disappeared on us. No answer.
not unusual for each individual poster to stand by their opinions
we are all entitled to an opinion on the matter after all
Querent apparently disappeared - lets hope not mafia connected - who knows
Querent would be advised to respond to reassure
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  #45  
Unread 11-13-2019, 08:22 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

The actual context and the lack of the background story of this question produces only confusion .An horary question requires exact phrasing and genuine interest - the Querent has not clearly phrased the question before posting it. ... in a way that at least we can describe it as being "vague"
Agree with you.
The most important factor using horary rules is that there is no connection between venus and mercury and even if it was i don't see why we must connect the querent with his job...if this was actually the initial question...and i am saying if this was her initial question because not only she hasn't responded yet to help us understand how this whole question was initiated, but there are also hints from her comments that this wasn't, in fact, the initial question.
Sure, we still don't know what her real intentions are to asking such a question. However if he is connected to the mafia, was her first question. Secondly she asked about his job and if she has to look at his 10th. There she saw Venus and thought it could be another woman and so on. So SHE is linked to Venus...and seems to see a connection between the mafia and his job.
I think there is a connection, but if he did really has some kind of business with them, then he began to break with it. Venus is now in sagittarius. However there was a time when Venus was in Mars' rulership and before she left that sign she past a conjunction with mercury.(This all happened while mercury stays in the sign scorpio). So there must have been a crucial event for the querent, maybe she found something out about his job, which led her to ask this question. Mercury is in scorpio and moon is in taurus. She thinks about venus and mars and is seeing or searching for a connection between them. Of course, mars could represents something else and venus as well. However the question has to be reflected in the chart... and I agree with you that she is in some kind exaggerated in her feelings due to mercury beeing in scorpio and in cazimi. And my answer was: He has connections. Not that it's his fulltime job or that he is for sure dealing with them - I wrote "Pluto in his second house MAYBE indicates criminal activities with money...
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Unread 11-13-2019, 08:39 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

"Secondly she asked about his job and if she has to look at his 10th."

I might be mistaken, but I interpreted this not as a question about him to be answered, but rather she was walking through how to interpret the chart to answer her main question (is he connected to the mafia).
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Unread 11-13-2019, 08:41 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"Secondly she asked about his job and if she has to look at his 10th."

I might be mistaken, but I interpreted this not as a question about him to be answered, but rather she was walking through how to interpret the chart to answer her main question (is he connected to the mafia).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

The actual context and the lack of the background story of this question produces only confusion .An horary question requires exact phrasing and genuine interest - the Querent has not clearly phrased the question before posting it. ... in a way that at least we can describe it as being "vague"
Agree with you.
The most important factor using horary rules is that there is no connection between venus and mercury and even if it was i don't see why we must connect the querent with his job...if this was actually the initial question...and i am saying if this was her initial question because not only she hasn't responded yet to help us understand how this whole question was initiated, but there are also hints from her comments that this wasn't, in fact, the initial question.

Sure, we still don't know what her real intentions are to asking such a question. However if he is connected to the mafia, was her first question. Secondly she asked about his job and if she has to look at his 10th. There she saw Venus and thought it could be another woman and so on. So SHE is linked to Venus...and seems to see a connection between the mafia and his job.
I think there is a connection, but if he did really has some kind of business with them, then he began to break with it. Venus is now in sagittarius. However there was a time when Venus was in Mars' rulership and before she left that sign she past a conjunction with mercury.(This all happened while mercury stays in the sign scorpio). So there must have been a crucial event for the querent, maybe she found something out about his job, which led her to ask this question. Mercury is in scorpio and moon is in taurus. She thinks about venus and mars and is seeing or searching for a connection between them. Of course, mars could represents something else and venus as well. However the question has to be reflected in the chart... and I agree with you that she is in some kind exaggerated in her feelings due to mercury beeing in scorpio and in cazimi. And my answer was: He has connections. Not that it's his fulltime job or that he is for sure dealing with them - I wrote "Pluto in his second house MAYBE indicates criminal activities with money...
Some say the answer is No because there is no aspect between significators
everyone is entitled to state their opinion

Querent continues their silence - maybe not even reading these discussions
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Unread 11-13-2019, 08:44 PM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"Secondly she asked about his job and if she has to look at his 10th."

I might be mistaken, but I interpreted this not as a question about him to be answered, but rather she was walking through how to interpret the chart to answer her main question (is he connected to the mafia).
No, it was my fault in the formulation. Yes, I see it like you do.
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  #49  
Unread 11-19-2019, 11:07 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Hi everyone, I never got a notification that anyone had replied to my post and I just came back here. Itís been so interesting to read and Iím so sorry I wasnít here to answer questions when you were asking them!! I have a few hoursí study to do tonight to understand everything in this thread that I donít know about yet.

Anyway first thing is that yes, the connections would be via his family. His uncle plonked him as CEO of a new manufacturing company in his mid-20s which he had no experience (and tbh, not really the aptitude) for. It has an annual turnover of hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of dollars but my ex barely has enough money to cover basic living costs. His uncle keeps starting these huge new manufacturing companies but where does he get his money?? He just has a small bar and a small restaurant in a small town, and no major family money to speak of. Also, my ex often gets into these major stressful periods where heís almost having a nervous breakdown, literally, but just says itís because he made a mistake with a payment or the production or something, like, normal ups and downs, which he would usually deal with normally. Or he says he *doesnít want to talk about work*, and he acts like heís hunted and almost afraid for his life and itís completely incongruous with what heís saying. So maybe heís just got some mental problems, or maybe thereís more to it.
Furthermore Iíve been hacked and stalked and followed non-stop since I met said ex. There are some other things with arm implants and UFO sightings but I wonít get into that because the truth is seriously stranger than fiction, but this is the main gist.

We have communicated again since my post but only by text, and it was always completely baffling, he is out of his mind and not himself. I would like to get back together if he went back to being the person I knew, but I donít know wth is going on. Right now it doesnít seem like he wants to or that we will but itís merc. ret. so idk. Iíve even wondered sometimes if there was some force trying to break us up because people hack me or add me from fake profiles obviously trying to make it seem like him, but Iíve received the creepy stalker messages sometimes when heís right beside me, so I donít think itís him. I always thought it could be either (or both) his ex or someone that wants him back in his country, to take more care of the business.

Anyway so thatís some of the context first off

Last edited by lux111; 11-19-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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Unread 11-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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Re: Is he connected to the mafia? Why am I cazimi..

Another thing is that this certainly is a legitimate business as it stands, and whatever connections he may or may not have ó Iím not insinuating that he *only* deals in shady practices. I donít get a sense of violent crime but I feel that there is something of a laundering/secretive/shadow-people involvement, and some major things I donít know
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