Somna7H
Banned
if you read the thread you shall notice that a moderator
has moved thread to traditional board so dwarf planetoid pluto is an irrelevance
Sorry. I will be careful next time.
if you read the thread you shall notice that a moderator
has moved thread to traditional board so dwarf planetoid pluto is an irrelevance
One correction: The Sun was personified by Helios in the Greek, and Sol in the Roman. Not Apollo. Conflating Helios/Sol with Apollo is a common mistake made by those not well-versed in the ancient Greco-Roman religions. I'm surprised that waybread erred in that regard.
Do you see Mars as entirely Malefic, or with some redeeming characteristics?
The better question is, when the malefic joys, does it become better, or worse?
Tricky question. When I studied with Bob Zoller, he said that Mars in Aries is an assassin. He goes out and kills whoever he's supposed to kill. End of. Whereas Mars in Libra, in the same role, would be more disposed to randomly chopping off heads.
I get that.
But if we're talking about joys, I don't like to see the malefics in theirs in good dignity. Or anything in good dignity in those houses. BUT...I'm only one person, and given that not many people are going to cross my path, or yours, or anyone's, who've lived through truly horrific 6th/12th house experiences...
The ones who I have seen? Tend to have Saturn in good dignity tucked away in 12, or Mars in good dignity, likewise, or something in good dignity in one of those houses - afflicted by Saturn or Mars. And if it's Mars or Saturn in the dark houses, they're usually strongly connected to at least one other planet (like in an overcoming square).
Again, small sample size, so I can come to no definite conclusion, but seeing those configurations makes me nervous. Anybody else from charts they've done?
So...if you have to have Saturn in the 12th house, it's possibly "better" for it to be in detriment, thereby allowing for some "damage control"?
One correction: The Sun was personified by Helios in the Greek, and Sol in the Roman. Not Apollo. Conflating Helios/Sol with Apollo is a common mistake made by those not well-versed in the ancient Greco-Roman religions. I'm surprised that waybread erred in that regard.
I would be, too, David. It depends upon the date. Helios, driver of the sun chariot was the early Greek sun god, separate from Apollo. With the passage of time, by the Hellenistic period of astrology, Helios was assimilated to Apollon (Apollo,) and occasionally to other gods. An Egyptian influence is postulated. Today, we like gods and goddesses to be described in tidy packages, but in ancient times, their identities were much less discrete.
https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Apollon.html
https://www.theoi.com/Titan/Helios.html
Apollo was the god of prophecy, which is a strong connection between the sun joying in the 9th house. His sister was Diana (Artemis) which is a strong connection with the moon joying in the 3rd house (opposite the 9th.)
Actually, one of the oldest surviving planetary depictions of a stellium in the constellation of Leo says that Mercury (Stilbon) belongs to Apollo - http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=cimrm31
Mercury was heavily with the arts and oracles in Hellenistic astrology, maybe just as much as Venus, Mercury also indicates knowledge and the young.
The craftsmanship of the constellation is very beautiful, not the kind of hogwash lines they print nowadays. I even made a meme to commemorate this:
Do you see Mars as entirely Malefic, or with some redeeming characteristics?
MARSMars is malefic, causing strife through negative action in old history astrology. Wars. Ravishings to show might regardless of emotion or sanctity. Maybe a reedeeming characteristic might be the strongest survive. In traditional chart Mars is seen as a troublemaker - where strife shows up. In modern charts - it's an activater or catalyst.
The retrograde Mars in traditional readings is that he comes back to previous trouble to overpower it later. You can see that in world wars and such.
Mars takes advantage of weak people but also comes back to rescue them when they need help. It is a very unemotional planet, more intent on survival than feelings maybe more than the greatest malefic Saturn that will at least feign interest. Mars doesn't care. People who don't care are considered malefic so probably it was associated with that early thinking.
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven StarsMars completes 42 sidereal cycles and 37 synodic cycles in 79 years.
It has a retreating arc of 16 degrees for 72 days.
Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal.
Pyroeis makes those born under him with good height, large eyes, natural, grim,
resourceful, passionate, drinking, quite turbulent, relentless, challenging and confident.
Mars controls force, wars, robbery, screams, violence, the loss of property,
whoring, banishment, exile, alienation from parents, captivity, the corruption of women,
abortions, sexual intercourse, the loss of good things, lies, vain hopes,
violent thefts, the banditry, plundering, disputes between friends, wrath,
fighting, verbal abuse, hatred, lawsuits, shouts, violent murder, slashing,
bloodshed, attacks of fever, boils, burns, imprisonment, torture,
masculinity, false oaths, wandering, excelling at villainy, those who work with fire and iron,
the artisans, masons, leaders, military service, high-ranking officers,
soldiers, supremacists, hunting, chasing, falling from heights
and from four-footed animals, poor vision, apoplexy, falling on the back,
muscular system, urinary system, lower gastrointestinal tract, weapons,
iron, decorations of clothing, red colours and acid tastes.
It is chronocrator over late adulthood up to the 56th year.
Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
On our traditional forumI feel Mars could take joy in the 6th
because it's having to actually face the places
that bring bad fortune and strife
i.e. Mars is actually going to the battlefield to fight, rather than
to the hospital for example and fighting a nurse
who didn't even do anything bad to him
Is it just pattern, or a logical reason?
force, wars, plunderings, screams, violence, whoring, the loss of property, banishment, exile, alienation from parents, capture, the deaths of wives, abortions...the loss of goods, slashings bloodshed, fever, ulcerations..