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  #1  
Unread 03-06-2012, 09:45 PM
SourceDirect91 SourceDirect91 is offline
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Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Hi, im a 20 year old male from london. I've always seemed very introverted, my parents recall me needing to be alone a lot since I was a toddler and i've always been a loner, despite this people are surprised at how jovial and lighthearted I am when they actually speak to me but i've always had an intense need for solitude. I think on the surface my chart looks quite assertive and confident. I have sun in sagittarius, aries moon, mercury in sagittarius, mars in sagittarius, aquarius midheaven; im quite sure these are all important in a natal chart so im intrigued as to what accounts for my introspective nature. I also have mercury retrograde aspected by conjunction with mars and sextile to saturn. I know retrogrades make planets turn inwards but im still not completely sure about how I should interpret my mercury. I also knew two other males born on the same day as me in the same year, so they both had mercury retrograde in sagittarius but they were both very extroverted and in tune with the external world. Anyway that's enough how for now here's my chart:



feel free to give me any feedback on anything you've noticed about my chart in general aswell as my introversion. Im not very good at reading a chart interpreting it as a whole so appreciate any help. Thanks.

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Unread 03-06-2012, 09:53 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Elementary, my dear Watson. Siderealism.

~Extremely (OK, I'm in no mood to compare right now, but I will if you ask) Introverted Aquarius giving somewhat of a chart reading
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Unread 03-06-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Elementary, my dear Watson. Siderealism.

~Extremely (OK, I'm in no mood to compare right now, but I will if you ask) Introverted Aquarius giving somewhat of a chart reading
Sorry im not quite sure what your talking about, would you mind elaborating?
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Unread 03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

The sidereal zodiac doesn't account for procession, so most corrections would put your Sagittarius planets back into Scorpio, thus making you more introverted. Extreme introversion... I'm not sure how to get the extremes (the 100%s on personality tests) of anything to even come out on charts, especially not in ways that correlate with the actual presence of an extreme in a person's personality. OK, I hope that didn't sound like jargon.

Edit: It might be the Moon in Taurus I mean Pisces. Venus in Libra might or might not do it. Venus is cold and wet, but Libra is hot and wet. By the way, yes, I'm still learning my stuff (there's a lot to learn outside of modern and I'm sort of developing my own system :P) even though I'm a compulsive poster, so please analyze what I say before you believe it :P

~(signed)Tilde-using Capricorn(sidereal)/Aquarius(tropical) writing a signature

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 03-06-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 10:37 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Hi SourceDirect91. I'm not sure that there's anything definitive that you could point to that makes this the chart of an introvert. If siderealism was the answer, then why would the other people you know be extraverted? There are some things that might shed light, however, which probably weren't in the charts of those two other people. (It might be interesting if possible for you to try to get their birth times).

Jupiter, ruler of the Sagi planets, is in Virgo (same for the other two of people of course) and also in the 4th house of one's more private experiences and circumstances. Neptune closely trines Jupiter, and again those other people would have this, but it may still be relevant to your introversion together with other factors - pulling your Jupiter into the imaginal realm from where it perhaps calls to the Sagittarian planets.

Neptune and Jupiter both aspect Venus in Scorpio, which could add to introversion (though again this would be shared with the other people born that day).

All people born that day would also have Mercury trine Chiron, but not many would have this reiterated by Chiron in the 3rd house. This may bring reflect a tendency to use the mind more for deep soul-searching than general banter.

If you were born about 6 minutes or so earlier, you would have Gemini rising, so the retrograde Mercury and the Chiron Mercury connection would be more significant.

The Sagittarius planets are in the 6th house, backing up the Virgo theme, and suggesting that the Sagi search for meaning will be directed towards experiences of self-definition and self-refinement. Pluto in the 6th can feel passionately about personal boundaries.

Saturn in the 9th may reflect a need to be very cautious in how you approach experiences of expansion.

Cancer rising often tends towards withdrawal. With Moon in Aries, there would usually be more of a need to project the self out into the world. Perhaps there's something here about the Cancerian shell being a place where you can be more yourself (which Aries needs). Perhaps also the very close Moon Pluto quincunx adds to the Aries placement to give a strong instinctive need for self determination - a sense that only one's own power can be relied upon and so must be honoured above all else.

If you're confident of your birth time, it might be worth looking at midpoints to see if say Neptune is picked up by any of the important midpoints such as Sun/Moon, ASC/MC. Sun/ASC, Moon/MC, Sun/MC or Moon/ASC.

It looks as though Pluto is square your Sun/Moon midpoint. This could be relevant to introversion. This would only be in effect for a small part of the day.

Jupiter and Mars both sesquiquadrate the ASC/MC midpoint if the time is accurate (which does nothing to explain your tendency to introvert of course!)

Its interesting that you don't seem shy as such. With Sun trine Moon in fire, you could just have a sense of inner equilibrium that means you don't have to make a 'song-and-dance' about yourself.

I don't know if any of this will be useful. If you want me to try to say any more you could perhaps try to say what's in it for you, so to speak, when you introvert.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 10:56 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi SourceDirect91. I'm not sure that there's anything definitive that you could point to that makes this the chart of an introvert. If siderealism was the answer, then why would the other people you know be extraverted? There are some things that might shed light, however, which probably weren't in the charts of those two other people. (It might be interesting if possible for you to try to get their birth times).

Jupiter, ruler of the Sagi planets, is in Virgo (same for the other two of people of course) and also in the 4th house of one's more private experiences and circumstances. Neptune closely trines Jupiter, and again those other people would have this, but it may still be relevant to your introversion together with other factors - pulling your Jupiter into the imaginal realm from where it perhaps calls to the Sagittarian planets.

Neptune and Jupiter both aspect Venus in Scorpio, which could add to introversion (though again this would be shared with the other people born that day).

All people born that day would also have Mercury trine Chiron, but not many would have this reiterated by Chiron in the 3rd house. This may bring reflect a tendency to use the mind more for deep soul-searching than general banter.

If you were born about 6 minutes or so earlier, you would have Gemini rising, so the retrograde Mercury and the Chiron Mercury connection would be more significant.

The Sagittarius planets are in the 6th house, backing up the Virgo theme, and suggesting that the Sagi search for meaning will be directed towards experiences of self-definition and self-refinement. Pluto in the 6th can feel passionately about personal boundaries.

Saturn in the 9th may reflect a need to be very cautious in how you approach experiences of expansion.

Cancer rising often tends towards withdrawal. With Moon in Aries, there would usually be more of a need to project the self out into the world. Perhaps there's something here about the Cancerian shell being a place where you can be more yourself (which Aries needs). Perhaps also the very close Moon Pluto quincunx adds to the Aries placement to give a strong instinctive need for self determination - a sense that only one's own power can be relied upon and so must be honoured above all else.

If you're confident of your birth time, it might be worth looking at midpoints to see if say Neptune is picked up by any of the important midpoints such as Sun/Moon, ASC/MC. Sun/ASC, Moon/MC, Sun/MC or Moon/ASC.

It looks as though Pluto is square your Sun/Moon midpoint. This could be relevant to introversion. This would only be in effect for a small part of the day.

Jupiter and Mars both sesquiquadrate the ASC/MC midpoint if the time is accurate (which does nothing to explain your tendency to introvert of course!)

Its interesting that you don't seem shy as such. With Sun trine Moon in fire, you could just have a sense of inner equilibrium that means you don't have to make a 'song-and-dance' about yourself.

I don't know if any of this will be useful. If you want me to try to say any more you could perhaps try to say what's in it for you, so to speak, when you introvert.
Thanks a lot for that analysis in terms of what's in it for me when I introvert. Well im at university studying philosophy and spend most of my time making electronic music and self studying maths. I applied for philosophy for some uni's and maths for others.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 11:15 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
I'm not sure that there's anything definitive that you could point to that makes this the chart of an introvert. If siderealism was the answer, then why would the other people you know be extraverted?
Cold/feminine/yin emphasis over hot/masculine/yang emphasis makes an introvert according to multiple people regarded as experts (Carl Jung directly employed this.) The reason the other people would be more extraverted would be because they have extraverted planets on angles and you/the OP has introverted planets on angles. The only problem is that this doesn't appear to actually work.

Edit: I've also never heard "introvert" used as a verb before, even though it makes sense since the literal root is "turn inwards." I checked the dictionary and it says it's not. That's OK because it's sensical to say but sensical isn't a word either.

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 03-06-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 11:23 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?



My sidereal chart.
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Unread 03-06-2012, 11:26 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Edit: It might be the Moon in Taurus. Venus in Libra might or might not do it. Venus is cold and wet, but Libra is hot and wet. By the way, yes, I'm still learning my stuff (there's a lot to learn outside of modern and I'm sort of developing my own system :P) even though I'm a compulsive poster, so please analyze what I say before you believe it :P
I think you reversed the direction of the sidereal moon.. it would be in Pisces, not Taurus.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 10:24 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Cold/feminine/yin emphasis over hot/masculine/yang emphasis makes an introvert according to multiple people regarded as experts (Carl Jung directly employed this.) The reason the other people would be more extraverted would be because they have extraverted planets on angles and you/the OP has introverted planets on angles. The only problem is that this doesn't appear to actually work.
Yes I see. Thanks RebelUranian. I can't remember which planets, if any are angular in Enthusiast's chart, and its expired.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Thanks a lot for that analysis in terms of what's in it for me when I introvert. Well im at university studying philosophy and spend most of my time making electronic music and self studying maths. I applied for philosophy for some uni's and maths for others.
Hi Enthusiast. I was more thinking about what might be in it for you on a more emotional level. For example, the feeling of being in control, a preference not to have to interact with people, too much to do in your own world to get too involved with the outer world, finding other people zap your energy after a while, deeply unconscious fear of rejection, feeling like an outsider, or whatever...
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Unread 03-08-2012, 02:00 AM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Yes I see. Thanks RebelUranian. I can't remember which planets, if any are angular in Enthusiast's chart, and its expired.
I don't think cold planets were on angles. There is a lot of "the only problem is that this doesn't appear to actually work," in my studying of astrology right now.

My other, more recent theory, which doesn't immediately "not work," is to look at whether more important planets are above or below the horizon. I know the OP's chart expired, so let's take mine since I have it memorized: The Sun and Moon are below the horizon, and so are Jupiter and Saturn, which are final dispositors (sidereal,) and Jupiter is my 1st house ruler as well. In this theory, hot and cold are irrelevant. Also, I think the amount of elevation of planets might have to do with it, but I'd have to do more examination. Actually, I'm going to go make a thread.
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Unread 03-08-2012, 08:40 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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I don't think cold planets were on angles. There is a lot of "the only problem is that this doesn't appear to actually work," in my studying of astrology right now.
Maybe you're going through a brain-storming phase right now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
My other, more recent theory, which doesn't immediately "not work," is to look at whether more important planets are above or below the horizon. I know the OP's chart expired, so let's take mine since I have it memorized: The Sun and Moon are below the horizon, and so are Jupiter and Saturn, which are final dispositors (sidereal,) and Jupiter is my 1st house ruler as well. In this theory, hot and cold are irrelevant. Also, I think the amount of elevation of planets might have to do with it, but I'd have to do more examination. Actually, I'm going to go make a thread.
I recently read an interesting book about the quadrants of the chart called When Chimpanzees Dream Astrolology, by Alexander Graf von Schlieffen. It's a seminar transcript and he's a bit wacky, but its very thought-provoking and he spends quite a lot of time considering different Sun Moon combinations by quadrant, eg Sun in the 1st quadrant and Moon in the 3rd quadrant.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 08:02 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

thanks for the feedback guys here's my chart again

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Unread 03-10-2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Hi Enthusiast. I was more thinking about what might be in it for you on a more emotional level. For example, the feeling of being in control, a preference not to have to interact with people, too much to do in your own world to get too involved with the outer world, finding other people zap your energy after a while, deeply unconscious fear of rejection, feeling like an outsider, or whatever...
I've always felt like an outsider even when I was in was preschool. I used to play and read on my own teachers and parents felt nothing was wrong because when spoken to I appeared happy and easy going but I would always want to withdraw eventually. Im ok with the way I am but it's always been a mystery to me why I have this feeling of always being an outsider; whether it's in my family, at uni, the inner city neighbourhood I grew up in the feeling is the same. Throughout my life random people and people I've known well have made the there's "something about you" comment. I just can't see how this is expressed in my chart. I thought aquarius types or people with strong emphasis in Uranus had this sort of thing going on.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 10:16 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Chiron can feel like an outsider, and you have Chiron exactly sesquiquadrate your Sun. It could be that in this fairly extroverted culture, people like yourself will always be enigmatic. As I said above I think the fire trine bewteen Sun and Moon is relevant because it has a sense of 'nothing to prove' about it. Aries is a loner in some ways, and Pluto exactly quincunx the Aries Moon would tend to be more so, and of course the Moon rules your Ascendant.

It sounds as though you're not aware of any anxieties as such. But I wonder if you would benefit from imagining scenarios in which you are forced for some reason to take a more sustained social or public role of any kind. You might feel resistance or anxiety to such a scenario which could illuminate why you withdraw. What could go wrong? What would you lose during that time?

Some fiery people turn to their fantasy world in response to an early environment that does not celebrate their specialness enough.

Apart from this, and unless you can dig and find an anxiety or resistance of some kind, I don't know what else to add to this and my other posts. The old adage, 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' comes to mind, and if there is something that needs fixing you'll no doubt get a sense that something is wrong when the time is ripe. Perhaps when transiting Saturn is square natal Saturn around November this year you'll get a sense if anything needs to change.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 11:12 PM
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Angry Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Chiron can feel like an outsider, and you have Chiron exactly sesquiquadrate your Sun. It could be that in this fairly extroverted culture, people like yourself will always be enigmatic. As I said above I think the fire trine bewteen Sun and Moon is relevant because it has a sense of 'nothing to prove' about it. Aries is a loner in some ways, and Pluto exactly quincunx the Aries Moon would tend to be more so, and of course the Moon rules your Ascendant.

It sounds as though you're not aware of any anxieties as such. But I wonder if you would benefit from imagining scenarios in which you are forced for some reason to take a more sustained social or public role of any kind. You might feel resistance or anxiety to such a scenario which could illuminate why you withdraw. What could go wrong? What would you lose during that time?

Some fiery people turn to their fantasy world in response to an early environment that does not celebrate their specialness enough.

Apart from this, and unless you can dig and find an anxiety or resistance of some kind, I don't know what else to add to this and my other posts. The old adage, 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' comes to mind, and if there is something that needs fixing you'll no doubt get a sense that something is wrong when the time is ripe. Perhaps when transiting Saturn is square natal Saturn around November this year you'll get a sense if anything needs to change.
In terms of some kind of past resistance or anxiety. I was bullied in high school but it wasn't the usual image you would have of bullying. I remember some of the guys and even someone who I thought was my friend saying that they could not imagine me getting angry because I always seem calm, so they would try to wind me up and intimidate me , I fought back and ended up breaking someone's nose. I feel that I already had this solitary nature before all of that. Bullying is never something you want to go through but deep down I don't think it affected me.

It's interesting that you bring my sun trine moon fire. I certaintly feel as though I have some inner confidence or centredness but at the same time I think that fire trine is looking for a specific place or way(in terms of a talent or ability, im also trying to see if my chart contains any hidden capacities yet to be nurtured) to express itself with complete honesty but im afraid i'll never find that place.
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Unread 03-11-2012, 01:11 AM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Please post your declination table and all that. I think Uranus might be parallel to your Descendant.
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Unread 03-11-2012, 03:16 AM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

r- u - contraparallel - close enough.. sun is actually parallel uranus.

source direct - one can get a lot of astro answers, but if you get the right one it will be tricky to know as there will be a few to choose from for an astro explanation of your particular brand of introversion..

the vedic folks use a chart called the navamsha chart which is the same as a 9th harmonic.. this will bring points in a chart 40 degrees apart into a conjunction.. in your chart sun to saturn is 40 degrees as it pluto to descendant.. in the 9th harmonic or navamsha chart you have a sun/saturn conjunction along with a descendant pluto conjunction... the sun/saturn conjunction would definitely incline one more to introversion and the pluto/descendant conjunction might also encourage a level of solitude in the relationship dept... but, the thing i mostly think of is saturn in the 8th ruling the western descendant where most of your planets are, in combo with cancer rising which is generally a more sensitive, shy and potentially introverted sign... all of this together seems to add up to introversion in your case.. i base this on your telling us this here.. i wouldn't have gotten it just looking at your chart with a quick and less informed comment from you right away..

the rising sign always plays a big role in an astro chart, often more then many associate with it.. the ruler - moon in aries in the 10th house area would immediately suggest more security and comfort in the public eye, but saturn in the 8th in the 40 to 6th house sun, not so much.. thanks for sharing.. james
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Unread 07-26-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

Extremely Introverted Sagittarius



Isn't that an oxymoron?
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Unread 07-27-2013, 04:15 AM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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Extremely Introverted Sagittarius



Isn't that an oxymoron?
It demonstrates well how we cannot use the Sun sign in isolation to say anything useful about a person.

I haven't thought of myself as 'A Virgo' in a very long time
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Unread 08-07-2013, 12:24 AM
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Re: Extremely Introverted Sagittarius asking for chart reading?

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It demonstrates well how we cannot use the Sun sign in isolation to say anything useful about a person.

I haven't thought of myself as 'A Virgo' in a very long time
But I also have moon in aries and mercury and mars in sagittarius, uranus and jupiter on the angles
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