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  #1  
Unread 01-15-2016, 01:38 PM
Stagolee Stagolee is offline
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Is my friendīs life in danger?

My friend suspects her life is in danger due to black magic cast upon her. Yesterday she had a stroke and went to the hospital (she is under 30 years old and in good shape). She is afraid that powerful persons are going to take her out because she knows too much about their dealings.

Worried about the situation I cast this chart for her.

My friend is represented by 11th house which is....saturn in sixth or jupiter in fifth? Both are peregrine, they have not much power to act. Jupiter is in detriment and Saturn in the house of illness so both describe her situation.

Moon is in Aries in eleventh house, next applying by trine aspect to saturn in sixth.
Now this is where Iīd need some help in interpreting because the chart is cast to someone else and I have not done that before. Iīd like to take a look on the rulers of houses 8 (death, transformation) and 12 (black magic) to deduce if things are going to get better. I would have to count 8th of 11th (Scorpio=Mars) and 12th of 11th (Aquarius=Saturn again). Right?

Moreover, is Moon co-significator of my friend, is it me, a timer, or someone/thing else? Here it rules houses 1,2 and 3 and turned houses 3, 4 and 5.

Your honest help very much appreciated! How would you interpret the significators?
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  #2  
Unread 01-15-2016, 06:30 PM
Stagolee Stagolee is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

Iīll try again...

My friend is represented by the 11th house ruler, Saturn in sixth house which is turned eighth house. Venus the *itch, 12th house ruler of the radical chart, has left the conjunction with Saturn. In turned chart, Mars is the ruler of 8th house and Saturn again ruler of the 12th house. In radical chart Saturn rules both my friend and the 8th house. Moon will eventually aspect Saturn. Who is the Moon?
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  #3  
Unread 01-15-2016, 06:55 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

Can you go back to your saved chart at Astrodienst, and clarify whether the 11th house cusp is in late Aquarius or early Pisces? When you call up the chart, look at the upper left, and click on the additional tables. It will show you the signs and degrees of all of the house cusps. It is so close that I cannot read it off the chart.
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Unread 01-15-2016, 07:04 PM
Stagolee Stagolee is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

What a great tip, thank you. Should have confirmed that earlier. 11th house cusp is Aquarius 29 degrees 36 minutes.
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Unread 01-15-2016, 07:24 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

It does look to me as though the house of your friend (11th) is ruled by Aquarius, and that her 12th house (black magic) is also ruled by Saturn (Capricorn on the cusp.) Saturn is unhappy but the moon in the 11th applying to a trine with Saturn, and Saturn applying to the modern ruler of Aquarius (Uranus) to me suggests the potential for a positive outcome.

But here's the thing. Most sensible people do not believe in black magic. I'm sorry, but they don't. However, black magic is very real for people who do believe in it, and I've seen it cause them no end of fear and worry. So objectively there are medical reasons why a young person could suffer a stroke that have nothing to do with black magic.

Among other things, the moon rules the querent's take in the matter. If I read the chart in its radical sense, it shouts out to me that you are (understandably) really worried about your friend (moon in the 11th) with her signifier in the 6th house of poor health. From a modern astrology perspective, we see a "loaded" 11th house containing Uranus (modern ruler of friend's 12th and of sudden upsets, such as a stroke,) Neptune (rules illnesses that are difficult to diagnose,) Chiron (wounds that don't heal,) and the south node.

I also note that you're in Finland, where your high latitude tends to really skew the quadrant house cusps. While I think the chart is radical, it does suggest how an equal house or whole signs house system could give you a completely different answer.

I have to run now and can take a closer look later, but please really consider whether your own fearful beliefs are going to help or hinder your friend as she goes through this difficult point in her life.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 01-15-2016 at 07:26 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 01-15-2016, 07:55 PM
Stagolee Stagolee is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

Thank you for this interpretation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
..but please really consider whether your own fearful beliefs are going to help or hinder your friend as she goes through this difficult point in her life.
I agree with you! I donīt believe in black magic or that it could harm anyone. I think, if you believe in black magic it WILL harm you!
"Your thoughts create your reality." Yes Iīm very worried about my friends health, she is really vulnerable right now, due to difficult last year.

I would have interpreted this chart so that having the same significator for my friend and 8th house would signify that she is what she believes in.
If she thinks black magic will cause her another stroke then it will.

Thank you so much for your time and wise words. Would love to hear if you find anything else to pin point in order to help my friend.
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Unread 01-15-2016, 08:26 PM
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

Thank you for your reasonable response.

If we "play it as it lays," this is from J. Lee Lehman's book, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology, which is based strongly though not entirely on William Lilly's Christian Astrology. As she points out, people did believe in bewitchment in the 17th century, so Lilly does take up the topic.

Lilly's testimonies are:

The ruler of the 12th in the 6th or vice versa
The ruler of the 12th in the 1st or vice versa
The ruler of the 8th in the 1st or vice versa "give a strong suspicion of witchcraft."
The same ruler of the 1st and the 12th
Ruler of the ascendant combust or unfortunate in the 12th.

Although the turned chart does have some of these testimonies, what bothers me is that mathematically they seemed biased toward providing a "yes" answer.

At your high latitude, quadrant house cusps tend to get very distorted. We can see that the 11th (turned first) house covers a huge amount of territory: about 70 degrees in total. The 6th house seems to include 55 degrees. That's 125 degrees total, or one third of the chart. If we add to that the (turned) 12th house (radix 10th) that's another 20 degrees, and the (turned) 8th house puts us back in the radix 6th house (55 degrees) for a grand total of 200 degrees, or significantly over half the chart.

The chance of the 5th and 12th house having the same ruler could easily occur with Aquarius rising and Capricorn on the 12th, or a duplicate sign on the cusp of the 1st and 12th. Let's assume some probability on the ruler of the ascendant combust or in the 12th house, which would increase the odds of a "yes" answer. (Please check my arithmetic.)

I don't know what are the verified instances of black magic in Finland in recent years, but I would guess they're low-to-none.

So while I don't think the chart can be transparently read to reveal witchcraft or its absence, one of my main instructors in horary said that the chart should give a good picture of the situation at hand. I think it does show how concerned you are, and perhaps ready to entertain a magical non-medical explanation.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Stagolee (01-15-2016)
  #8  
Unread 01-09-2019, 04:47 PM
Stagolee Stagolee is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

UPDATE

Sorry it took two year's. I always grimace when I see a chart with people providing help but The conclusion remains a mystery. Well now I did The same thing myself.

My friend is fine now but since the reading, she has been hospitalized many many times (mental hospital). That's why the 12th House was accentuated in the chart. She is now living her life with the help of appropriate meds. Thanks everybody!
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  #9  
Unread 01-09-2019, 05:17 PM
watcherofthesouth watcherofthesouth is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

Thanks, Stagolee. Interesting reading. I've learned that 8 degrees in a natal chart indicates a black magic theme. Sometimes it can indicate by whom. People in Western cultures surely disregard it but in other cultures it is real and dangerous. I try to stay culture agnostic in these matters. If you could post her natal chart, that would be interesting.
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  #10  
Unread 01-13-2019, 01:00 AM
Almohsin Almohsin is offline
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Re: Is my friendīs life in danger?

There is no black magic but it is a mental illness.
The harmful mental energies were interpreted as magic, or harmful spirits .
Look at the planets and the Pisces and Chiron all this explains it

Last edited by Almohsin; 01-13-2019 at 01:07 AM.
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