How to feel fulfilled

graay ghost

Well-known member
I am not sure how to explain. I don't know if I have many of the same problems of the people here but I am, and I think I have always been gnawingly empty. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be doing something else instead of what I am doing, or if I just need to learn to enjoy the whooshing noises.

I do think my chart shows that I'm probably a terrible person so maybe I need to learn how to be okay with being bad? There's a certain ring to that, I guess.
 
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conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I can't give much in the way of existential advice (I'm still trying to figure my own stuff too) but maybe understanding your planets better will provide some compelling leads. Your temperament looks to be (I'm eye balling) Melancholic-Choleric with Detrimented Mars as significator of manners. Which I think checks out with the "doubting thomas" vibe you emit.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Actually, if I were looking for a bit of stress relief, I'd look at things like the fifth house and Venus.

Redecorate your house, maybe? It's not the answer to life, the universe, and everything, but it might get your mind off being evil for a while (that's got to be exhausting).
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
I can't give much in the way of existential advice (I'm still trying to figure my own stuff too) but maybe understanding your planets better will provide some compelling leads. Your temperament looks to be (I'm eye balling) Melancholic-Choleric with Detrimented Mars as significator of manners. Which I think checks out with the "doubting thomas" vibe you emit.

Existence is really hard. It's like the hardest thing there is, isn't it? Not existing seems much easier, considering how much stuff does that compared to the stuff that exists.

"Doubting Thomas" eh? Never heard of that one, probably because I'm not Christian, but yeah, I think I'd probably be the one saying I didn't believe that guy's story unless I actually stuck my hand into his actual guts. And then I'd probably be like, "eww."

Anyway, yeah, the Mars is an odd duck. Ruler of house 7 and 12. There are a lot of descriptions of Mars ascendant floating around and they definitely don't fit me, but then, "cookbook astrology" doesn't really work. I'm not sure where you're getting Melancholic-Choleric. Can you explain your methods?

Actually, if I were looking for a bit of stress relief, I'd look at things like the fifth house and Venus.

Redecorate your house, maybe? It's not the answer to life, the universe, and everything, but it might get your mind off being evil for a while (that's got to be exhausting).

The house I live in isn't really mine to redecorate. Money is also being siphoned into loan repayment so I don't have that much.

Let me tell you, being evil is totally exhausting. But it's what I got.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Existence is really hard. It's like the hardest thing there is, isn't it? Not existing seems much easier, considering how much stuff does that compared to the stuff that exists.

"Doubting Thomas" eh? Never heard of that one, probably because I'm not Christian, but yeah, I think I'd probably be the one saying I didn't believe that guy's story unless I actually stuck my hand into his actual guts. And then I'd probably be like, "eww."

Anyway, yeah, the Mars is an odd duck. Ruler of house 7 and 12. There are a lot of descriptions of Mars ascendant floating around and they definitely don't fit me, but then, "cookbook astrology" doesn't really work. I'm not sure where you're getting Melancholic-Choleric. Can you explain your methods?

I used Dorian Greenbaum's method where you take the:

Element of ASC (Melancholic)
Ruling Planet natural quality (Sanguine)
Quality of the Sign ruling planet is in (Phlegmatic)
Phase of the Moon (Choleric)
Sign of Moon (Melancholic)
Season of Sun (Choleric)

That, and Mars (hot and dry) is exactly on the ascendant so will decrease the "moisture" in your temperament. Making you some mixture of Melancholy and Choler. Also the melancholic planets (Saturn, Mercury) and Choleric (Sun and Mars) are angular and goaded to action. The other pairs don't match up to them.
 

noraleader

Banned
i imagine as the senior forum member you'd certainly have more insight into the particularities of your chart than i. the mars-pluto is interesting at least. a few minutes and it would be different, is it right? :)

i think a very effective method of feeling fulfilled is to first feel remarkably unfulfilled, thereby creating the critical contrast to manifest the discretisation. you're probably not interested in forgetting about it, or taking some laozi advice and aspiring for something more median.. read the tao te ching link possibly.. of course, that's more about not doing than doing.

i personally think 6th house is interesting because our quotidian features define us significantly but may not feel as significant as things we celebrate more. few people are interested in celebrating what is ordinary or constant. ...constancy and 12th house are more where it's at imo than the celebratory. ...but you have nn in 8th house so more going on than constancy.

something to start with :p
 

katydid

Well-known member
I don’t think this chart says you are a ‘terrible person’ at all. It is a very difficult chart that you chose for this incarnation though. It is not an easy ride.

You have nine placements in Earth and Water, and very little in Air/Fire. [Only Mercury and Saturn. ]
That discrepancy/imbalance can create the level of discomfort and dissatisfaction that you describe. Water/Earth dominance can create a somber, security oriented, fearful outlook. “Self-Protection is the number one motivator in a strongly Earth/Water chart. And to do that , one must be serious, hard working, and be conscious of daily survival necessities/resources. You would be conscious of security issues and potential downfalls, mishaps, possible upcoming problems. It is hard to feel any level of happiness or satisfaction when dealing with these kinds of fears, concerns on a daily basis. Most of your energy/resources must be reserved, maintained, set aside for basic survival, in your belief system.

The positive thing is that you have incredible endurance, persistance, strength, and are an incredible survivor. Most of us have not had to endure your past trials and tribulations, most likely. [ And they were not of your making, most likely.]

{ One very weird thing——I have 21 Taurus rising and my Moon is 3 Cap—]


Your chart ruler, Venus, is in the 3rd @ 29 Cancer. I don’t think the last degree of Cancer is ever going to feel emotionally fulfilled. You did not come into this incarnation to feel satisfied. I think you came to pay penance. And to care for others.

It is disposed by your Cap Moon in the 8th. I have a 3 degree Cap Moon in the 8th as well. I don’t cry when I should and I do cry when I shouldn’t? My emotions are hard to unravel. But I am deeply emotional—stress the word deeply. Sometimes tiny things make me cry uncontrollably. But a huge tragedy may leave me frozen in time.

Mercury and Chiron are your only FIRE. But the are prominently placed in Leo in the angular 4th. So you may have lofty goals, aspirations/expectations, for what you plan to accomplish in your life. With the Sun/Venus in Cancer in the 3rd, and the Mercury /Chiron in the 4th, you might have been expected by family/siblings/teachers/friends to be successful, prominent in some way.

But those are very challenging squares/oppositions from the malefics. It’s no joke to have Mars/Pluto opposition exactly upon your angles. And then Saturn comes and lurks, watching , to make sure the failure/upheaval/delays are complete. Life has been difficult. The Earth grand trine can help elevate you somewhat by perserverance, motivation, hard work.

Jupiter in the 5th, ruler of your 8th, can add the creativity, metaphysical faith and optimism needed to push through. Transiting Pluto has already plowed over our Moon—and now it is taunting your Uranus/Neptune conjunction. I think it is a good thing in the end. You can let go of a lot of old baggage and feel a sense of renewal. That is hard to do when we are mostly water and Earth.

Tune into your fiery Mercury and burn through the past bad memories. Release them. Time to move on.

Draw up your progressed chart and evolve! Pluto is giving you the gift of the Phoenix by plowing through your 8th. :ninja:
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
I am not sure how to explain. I don't know if I have many of the same problems of the people here but I am, and I think I have always been gnawingly empty. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be doing something else instead of what I am doing, or if I just need to learn to enjoy the whooshing noises.

I do think my chart shows that I'm probably a terrible person so maybe I need to learn how to be okay with being bad? There's a certain ring to that, I guess.

I study the effect of a calculated non-physical astrological point. Reading the highlighted above brought the possibility of an immediate link to mind.

Emptiness, Void, Inner Feelings of 'badness' have all been observed to resonate with a negatively accentuated MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:)that can be likened to the innermost, often unexpressed, feelings. It can impart much about the 'inner effect' of images created by childhood conditioning.
How one thinks is associated with Mercury. It was therefore interesting to see Mercury opposing MEAN BML conjunct a retrograde Saturn in the chart.
'Fulfilment' (of visionary ideals?) is said to be associated with the 9th house. Co-incidence that natal Saturn rules Capricorn (physical manifestation) on the 9th house cusp? The 9th house also has correspondences with health patterns.

Harsh Mercury-Saturn aspects can often be found where mental depression is the vision through which one views and experiences life's situations. It could well overshadow the positive glow of a (wide) Moon-Jupiter that looks for the best in manifested circumstances(Earth). The glass may be seen as half-empty instead of half-filled. It's just a matter of the perspective taken. MEAN BML in negative sense can warp a perspective....in the mind(Aquarius).... because it perceives circumstances other than the
circumstances show them to be. Positively speaking it does not mean that the perception created is necessarily bad or wrong; it is just different to how those others from whom the individual seeks acceptance....or make up the society in which one lives.... think circumstances should/ought to be.

Besides Saturn, MEAN BML makes harsh aspects to both Sun and Moon, to
Mercury in the 4th house, to Mars and Pluto conjunct the Asc.-Desc. axis.
It's not hard to figure where, how the effect of others upon one's self (image) occured, and/or why.

The most positive in the position of MEAN BML in Aquarius is when it can inwardly face, actively reason with, accept and deal with (Saturn influence) the situations it has undergone and realise its own uniqueness of and in character; that it is o.k. to have an alternatate view and understanding that does not fit in with others.

No birth data is shown, yet with all transiting planets from Jupiter
activating the chart in one way and another, a positive change seems to be on its way.Secondary progressed Sun may already be contacting natal Mercury to influence a change, rather than remain of fixed thought.

Without the chains that keep one bound to old thought patterns regarding situations, the Aquarius freedom of independent thought can be attained. It's only a question of Saturn time before fulfilment can be found.

My ½ cent.:smile:
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
Thanks, everyone, I do not have time to go over everyone this morning before work but uh. Here we go.

I don’t think this chart says you are a ‘terrible person’ at all. It is a very difficult chart that you chose for this incarnation though. It is not an easy ride.

I do not like the idea of choice in this case.


You have nine placements in Earth and Water, and very little in Air/Fire. [Only Mercury and Saturn. ]
That discrepancy/imbalance can create the level of discomfort and dissatisfaction that you describe. Water/Earth dominance can create a somber, security oriented, fearful outlook. “Self-Protection is the number one motivator in a strongly Earth/Water chart. And to do that , one must be serious, hard working, and be conscious of daily survival necessities/resources. You would be conscious of security issues and potential downfalls, mishaps, possible upcoming problems. It is hard to feel any level of happiness or satisfaction when dealing with these kinds of fears, concerns on a daily basis. Most of your energy/resources must be reserved, maintained, set aside for basic survival, in your belief system.

The positive thing is that you have incredible endurance, persistance, strength, and are an incredible survivor. Most of us have not had to endure your past trials and tribulations, most likely. [ And they were not of your making, most likely.]

So... how to stop living hand-to-mouth? If not actually then 'spiritually' or whatever.

{ One very weird thing——I have 21 Taurus rising and my Moon is 3 Cap—]


Your chart ruler, Venus, is in the 3rd @ 29 Cancer. I don’t think the last degree of Cancer is ever going to feel emotionally fulfilled. You did not come into this incarnation to feel satisfied. I think you came to pay penance. And to care for others.

Then what is the point of living? I am serious here.

It is disposed by your Cap Moon in the 8th. I have a 3 degree Cap Moon in the 8th as well. I don’t cry when I should and I do cry when I shouldn’t? My emotions are hard to unravel. But I am deeply emotional—stress the word deeply. Sometimes tiny things make me cry uncontrollably. But a huge tragedy may leave me frozen in time.

It is hard to cry when anyone is looking. It's hard to say that anything is bothering me. People do not believe me when I do speak up because I don't emote hard enough.

Mercury and Chiron are your only FIRE. But the are prominently placed in Leo in the angular 4th. So you may have lofty goals, aspirations/expectations, for what you plan to accomplish in your life. With the Sun/Venus in Cancer in the 3rd, and the Mercury /Chiron in the 4th, you might have been expected by family/siblings/teachers/friends to be successful, prominent in some way.

I guess so. Being the only one with common sense in your immediate family is a huge burden and combine that with some modicum of book smarts and suddenly everyone thinks you're a supergenius. And that's terrible.

But those are very challenging squares/oppositions from the malefics. It’s no joke to have Mars/Pluto opposition exactly upon your angles. And then Saturn comes and lurks, watching , to make sure the failure/upheaval/delays are complete. Life has been difficult. The Earth grand trine can help elevate you somewhat by perserverance, motivation, hard work.

Jupiter in the 5th, ruler of your 8th, can add the creativity, metaphysical faith and optimism needed to push through. Transiting Pluto has already plowed over our Moon—and now it is taunting your Uranus/Neptune conjunction. I think it is a good thing in the end. You can let go of a lot of old baggage and feel a sense of renewal. That is hard to do when we are mostly water and Earth.

Tune into your fiery Mercury and burn through the past bad memories. Release them. Time to move on.

Draw up your progressed chart and evolve! Pluto is giving you the gift of the Phoenix by plowing through your 8th. :ninja:

I have a problem with this idea of 'evolution.' This is not how evolution works. If someone is thrust into a shitty situation and adapts by becoming a shitty person but lives while the other people do not, is that not evolution? The idea that it's a 'linear thing' that makes people 'better' does not work. People are not like that. The world is not like that. Putting people through hell does not make them better. It's easier to cultivate 'goodness' or whatever when they are not being tried and tried and tried on the rack again.
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
I study the effect of a calculated non-physical astrological point. Reading the highlighted above brought the possibility of an immediate link to mind.

Emptiness, Void, Inner Feelings of 'badness' have all been observed to resonate with a negatively accentuated MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:)that can be likened to the innermost, often unexpressed, feelings. It can impart much about the 'inner effect' of images created by childhood conditioning.
How one thinks is associated with Mercury. It was therefore interesting to see Mercury opposing MEAN BML conjunct a retrograde Saturn in the chart.
'Fulfilment' (of visionary ideals?) is said to be associated with the 9th house. Co-incidence that natal Saturn rules Capricorn (physical manifestation) on the 9th house cusp? The 9th house also has correspondences with health patterns.

I do not think 'fulfillment' has to do with visionary ideals. At least not in my case. I guess some people cannot feel fulfillment unless they do some kind of visionary... thing. Fulfillment in this case is an experience opposed to emptiness. Different people need different things.

Harsh Mercury-Saturn aspects can often be found where mental depression is the vision through which one views and experiences life's situations. It could well overshadow the positive glow of a (wide) Moon-Jupiter that looks for the best in manifested circumstances(Earth). The glass may be seen as half-empty instead of half-filled. It's just a matter of the perspective taken. MEAN BML in negative sense can warp a perspective....in the mind(Aquarius).... because it perceives circumstances other than the
circumstances show them to be. Positively speaking it does not mean that the perception created is necessarily bad or wrong; it is just different to how those others from whom the individual seeks acceptance....or make up the society in which one lives.... think circumstances should/ought to be.

Besides Saturn, MEAN BML makes harsh aspects to both Sun and Moon, to
Mercury in the 4th house, to Mars and Pluto conjunct the Asc.-Desc. axis.
It's not hard to figure where, how the effect of others upon one's self (image) occured, and/or why.

The most positive in the position of MEAN BML in Aquarius is when it can inwardly face, actively reason with, accept and deal with (Saturn influence) the situations it has undergone and realise its own uniqueness of and in character; that it is o.k. to have an alternatate view and understanding that does not fit in with others.

I am not sure I have an alternative view. Maybe. I don't really think I fit in anywhere. I don't know if I ever have, really.

No birth data is shown, yet with all transiting planets from Jupiter
activating the chart in one way and another, a positive change seems to be on its way.Secondary progressed Sun may already be contacting natal Mercury to influence a change, rather than remain of fixed thought.

Without the chains that keep one bound to old thought patterns regarding situations, the Aquarius freedom of independent thought can be attained. It's only a question of Saturn time before fulfilment can be found.

My ½ cent.:smile:

Thanks. I don't know about waiting. I don't know if I have time to wait.
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
Maybe I can try to explain a little more.

I've spent a lot of my time getting good at things. I feel like the one thing I can rely on is my own ability to figure stuff out, to do the research, tease out the patterns, find out what I need to know and then go learn it. And for the most part that's served me pretty well. I spend a lot of time learning skills, making things... but all of this is pretty empty.

It's really hard for me to rely on people. More than that I don't really seek them out for help. I think if people don't feel needed they tend to go away. Positive attention is the most wonderful thing in the world but all I have are "skills" and "being useful." I don't know. It's not much of a life. :annoyed: I don't know how to talk to people. I don't know if I like a lot of people. I don't know how to say that I want things, I constantly offer that I'm down for whatever and have no opinion -- if I really want something, I don't ask, I get it myself.

Like, I don't know if people notice me. I work in an office. I've gotten comments that people don't know or forget that I'm there, I was called that "new quiet kid [they] hired", sometimes I sneak up on people on accident. I don't know. Am I a real person?
 

katydid

Well-known member
Maybe I can try to explain a little more.

I've spent a lot of my time getting good at things. I feel like the one thing I can rely on is my own ability to figure stuff out, to do the research, tease out the patterns, find out what I need to know and then go learn it. And for the most part that's served me pretty well. I spend a lot of time learning skills, making things... but all of this is pretty empty.

It's really hard for me to rely on people. More than that I don't really seek them out for help. I think if people don't feel needed they tend to go away. Positive attention is the most wonderful thing in the world but all I have are "skills" and "being useful." I don't know. It's not much of a life. :annoyed: I don't know how to talk to people. I don't know if I like a lot of people. I don't know how to say that I want things, I constantly offer that I'm down for whatever and have no opinion -- if I really want something, I don't ask, I get it myself.

Like, I don't know if people notice me. I work in an office. I've gotten comments that people don't know or forget that I'm there, I was called that "new quiet kid [they] hired", sometimes I sneak up on people on accident. I don't know. Am I a real person?

Yes. You are a very real person. Part of this Pluto transit to your 8th is to help you work that out. WHO are you? What do you want from others? What do you desire? How can you attain those resources successfully?
 

Kitchy

Banned
Yes. You are a very real person. Part of this Pluto transit to your 8th is to help you work that out. WHO are you? What do you want from others? What do you desire? How can you attain those resources successfully?


I think that it is more about wanting to figures others out more than yourself. The movement of 7th to 8th.

"what have you done for me lately?"

2nd mine - 8th yours -

the transfer of 1st/7th to 2nd / 8th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uizdKZAGE

Otherwise, the question of "DO I EXIST" is a 1st house issue - 7th if others are the ones who MAKE YOU EXIST
 
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katydid

Well-known member
I think that it is more about wanting to figures others out more than yourself. The movement of 7th to 8th.

"what have you done for me lately?"

2nd mine - 8th yours -

the transfer of 1st/7th to 2nd / 8th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uizdKZAGE

Otherwise, the question of "DO I EXIST" is a 1st house issue - 7th if others are the ones who MAKE YOU EXIST

I am speaking specifically about a transit she is having right now. It is Pluto plowing through her 8th house, which contains her Cap Moon. With the Moon in the 8th, it is about oneself and one's deepest emotions and needs. It is not just about others, in my opinion.


Also, I was referring specifically to some natal difficult aspects, like her Mars/Pluto opposition which squares Saturn. see below:

8th house:

Any native that observes malefic planets or hard aspects between Mars and Pluto, must concentrate towards resolving these psychological issues inside him. Such kind of aspects are not a game, as they can awaken the darkest reactions, which in turn might have other difficult effects on his life. Negative feelings can create avalanches of difficult events, and the native is strongly advised to learn his dark side and try to spread light in it. Transformations in this area can create a massive change in his entire life, and eradicating such kind of behaviors can alter his reality so positively that he will become a totally other person.

That exact place of the chart is responsible for the unspoken answers about why we exist, why we get born and why we die, and are the foundations on which the whole next 9th house is based. As we have already mentioned, the 9th house is responsible for philosophy and wisdom and abstract higher knowledge of the world. So, its quite natural that this knowledge has as first and basic question, the reasons behind the existence of everything. That is why the 8th house is so critical for all wisdom; it is the source of the questions and answers that give meaning to all the belief systems, to all knowledge and learning.


http://freespiritedmind.com/blog/the-8th-house-in-astrology/
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
G.G.
You supply no birth data or gender.
Can I ask if the chart provides an accurate or 'rounded off' birth time?
I ask because the natal Sun-Venus in Cancer would seem to reflect a lot about your feelings regarding (your) life. If the birth time was but a few minuted earlier, Venus, Mars and Pluto would all be on the other side of the angular cusps and giving a different focus upon the chart.

There's an astrological thought that males live through the harsh aspects and females through the softer aspects of the chart. does this ring a bell with you?

Your feelings of 'physical' non-existence, or 'no social presence' as pointed out by noraleader, do seem to lay a stress upon how you think of yourself through the Sun and Moon aspects to MEAN Black Moon Lilith.

I checked the ephemeris for your birth date. If you use the TRUE Node axis it moves from Cancer to Capricorn, whilst the MEAN Node is in Gemini to Sagittarius. Such a change could imply that the manifestated physical form (Moon crossing Sun path) could be of importance as you mature into adulthood.
I don't discount the relevance of the MEAN Node. You might well appreciate the difference of working towards fulfilment and the later manifestation of it.:smile:
 
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graay ghost

Well-known member
G.G.
You supply no birth data or gender.
Can I ask if the chart provides an accurate or 'rounded off' birth time?
I ask because the natal Sun-Venus in Cancer would seem to reflect a lot about your feelings regarding (your) life. If the birth time was but a few minuted earlier, Venus, Mars and Pluto would all be on the other side of the angular cusps and giving a different focus upon the chart.

I am using the time on my birth certificate which ended in a 1, so I assume it's accurate.

There's an astrological thought that males live through the harsh aspects and females through the softer aspects of the chart. does this ring a bell with you?

Not at all. In fact it seems kind of silly, tbh.


Your feelings of 'physical' non-existence, or 'no social presence' as pointed out by noraleader, do seem to lay a stress upon how you think of yourself through the Sun and Moon aspects to MEAN Black Moon Lilith.

I checked the ephemeris for your birth date. If you use the TRUE Node axis it moves from Cancer to Capricorn, whilst the MEAN Node is in Gemini to Sagittarius. Such a change could imply that the manifestated physical form (Moon crossing Sun path) could be of importance as you mature into adulthood.
I don't discount the relevance of the MEAN Node. You might well appreciate the difference of working towards fulfilment and the later manifestation of it.:smile:

I am not really sure what this means? Also, I'm pretty sure I'm already an adult.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Ok, folks. Once again I deleted attacking posts, replies, off topic comments, etc. If we can't reconcile ourselves to allow others to post replies to threads in their own manner without attacking/trolling them for it we will be banned from posting. Follow the rules.

Moderating, again,
tamara
 
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