Which is more difficult: Square or Opposition?

AppLeo

Well-known member
This question just came up and maybe it's a pointless question because in the end.. both of these aspects are hard and it doesn't really matter which one is harder.

Which would be more difficult, a square, opposition, or even a conjunction??

Which one would be the hardest to deal with: Sun square Saturn, Sun opposite Saturn, or Sun conjunct Saturn???

Or maybe it has more to do with degrees. If someone has a tight opposition between the Sun and Saturn, compared to someone who has a conjunction between Sun and Saturn then the person with the opposition should have it harder right??

Or does it depend on signs as well... If the Sun-Saturn aspect took place in the signs of Capricorn or Aries, then it would probably be harder than the aspect taking place in like... Leo and Aquarius?? I don't know.
 

Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
This question just came up and maybe it's a pointless question because in the end.. both of these aspects are hard and it doesn't really matter which one is harder.

Which would be more difficult, a square, opposition, or even a conjunction??

Which one would be the hardest to deal with: Sun square Saturn, Sun opposite Saturn, or Sun conjunct Saturn???

Or maybe it has more to do with degrees. If someone has a tight opposition between the Sun and Saturn, compared to someone who has a conjunction between Sun and Saturn then the person with the opposition should have it harder right??

Or does it depend on signs as well... If the Sun-Saturn aspect took place in the signs of Capricorn or Aries, then it would probably be harder than the aspect taking place in like... Leo and Aquarius?? I don't know.

Opposition
 

detectahead

Well-known member
A lot has to do with the strength of the planet within the chart itself. As far as strength or importance of an aspect I would have to go with the conjunction
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
A lot has to do with the strength of the planet within the chart itself.
As far as strength or importance of an aspect
I would have to go with the conjunction
Avoid generalisation even if it is fun
tempting but notoriously unreliable :smile:
fact is
also depends WHICH of the planets are opposing each other
and from which sign location
and from which house
and from which degrees of those signs
 

Vyri

Banned
The Brotherhood of Light describe s the processes similar to these for opposition, square, conjunction:

The Conjunction as you know brings two forces together and however they are designed in element and humor one which is more powerful wins over the effect of the other or they both "agree" to blend and bring that whichever they rule together to be profited by, or otherwise.

A square acts with much force as in a major scuffle between the two forces..usually an outer force they are connected with siphoning off the obstacle will rarely not be seen or involved in the scenario-to lets say help the two planets joined in the obstacle to surmount the energy in its effect..i.e.; the two planets involved are damaged in some way and the energy can be lasting or the two planets activities will effect a conclusion-with much disagreement, the two forces leave each other worse for ware. The square has an effect of overturning vessels of wine to each involved in the energies wake ..There is rarely a loss which does not occur to one or the other of the participants, usually both, unless they can agree to desist in the energy which is accomplished by the type of third party element/energy introduced which is benign/and helps to amend.. or not (depending upon the condition of the planets involved.) The other factor or planet being the source of their help is usually a Karmic/Dharmic (by this I mean a lasting heavier outer force, which Lilly affectionates do not acknowledge) to leave the two with a lesson of mending possibilities, lest the two become completely ruined, in effect the two involved are aided or abetted by forces. (houses signs planets) The effects of the scuffle may be viewed as in a personal war-The diplomat enters to temper the square energy. As the diplomat enters and the two abiding kings resolve the distress by a third ambassador who brings new action into the process ..as in a fight there may be some lose of life or limb, metaphorically speaking, damage controlled and the third party reconciles them in some way , briefly touched on as mentioned. The process is reconciliation of a hard lesson of effectiveness, a saving grace is the process..you've heard the expression, adversity developing character...ipso-facto here.

There are some whom believe the force of the square is so powerful that it is assumed it is the more devastating of them all, but it is this astrologer's opinion it is the opposition which is the more powerful, rendering as-sunder and separating, as two powers come to logger heads boiling back along each other's path of energy until one is completely within the wake of the forces of the other..hence the valuation of separation, the forces take from each other as each is more or less more powerfully expressed in their values and meanings from houses/signs elevation..etc.:sideways:

Here in ends the lesson..The BrotherHood of light based in Los Angeles California has a much more succinct explanation than I am capable of giving here.:happy:

All the best

Vyri
 
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IleneK

Premium Member
Just my opinion, but all other things being equal, I think that Sun square Saturn and Sun conjunct Saturn are the more difficult. The square because of its ambush-like quality. Sort of like one planet lurks around the corner from the other. The conjunction is difficult because of its overwhelming quality.

With the opposition, at least you can see it. It is right in front of you. Maybe in your way, but still right in front of you.
 

detectahead

Well-known member
Avoid generalisation even if it is fun
tempting but notoriously unreliable :smile:
fact is
also depends WHICH of the planets are opposing each other
and from which sign location
and from which house
and from which degrees of those signs

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand "generally" what I am pointing out.
Reference was to a conjunction not opposition
 
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Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
On the contrary :smile:
From visual perspective something opposite is easily seen
OPPOSITION =
The action of opposing, resisting, or combating


No, my friend has a lot of opposition in her chart and she doesnt realize how she acts in certain situations. So no, the opp is something you cant see or you are not aware of. The opposition is like a glass wall you cant see, you keep bumping into it, repeating the same behavior until something changes or comes to light.
 

Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
Just my opinion, but all other things being equal, I think that Sun square Saturn and Sun conjunct Saturn are the more difficult. The square because of its ambush-like quality. Sort of like one planet lurks around the corner from the other. The conjunction is difficult because of its overwhelming quality.

With the opposition, at least you can see it. It is right in front of you. Maybe in your way, but still right in front of you.

The square is internal while the opposition you cant see. Its something you are not aware of. These energies are fighting for ones attention, its seperating energies.
 

Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
The Brotherhood of Light describe s the processes similar to these for opposition, square, conjunction:

The Conjunction as you know brings two forces together and however they are designed in element and humor one which is more powerful wins over the effect of the other or they both "agree" to blend and bring that whichever they rule together to be profited by, or otherwise.

A square acts with much force as in a major scuffle between the two forces..usually an outer force they are connected with siphoning off the obstacle will rarely not be seen or involved in the scenario-to lets say help the two planets joined in the obstacle to surmount the energy in its effect..i.e.; the two planets involved are damaged in some way and the energy can be lasting or the two planets activities will effect a conclusion-with much disagreement, the two forces leave each other worse for ware. The square has an effect of overturning vessels of wine to each involved in the energies wake ..There is rarely a loss which does not occur to one or the other of the participants, usually both, unless they can agree to desist in the energy which is accomplished by the type of third party element/energy introduced which is benign/and helps to amend.. or not (depending upon the condition of the planets involved.) The other factor or planet being the source of their help is usually a Karmic/Dharmic (by this I mean a lasting heavier outer force, which Lilly affectionates do not acknowledge) to leave the two with a lesson of mending possibilities, lest the two become completely ruined, in effect the two involved are aided or abetted by forces. (houses signs planets) The effects of the scuffle may be viewed as in a personal war-The diplomat enters to temper the square energy. As the diplomat enters and the two abiding kings resolve the distress by a third ambassador who brings new action into the process ..as in a fight there may be some lose of life or limb, metaphorically speaking, damage controlled and the third party reconciles them in some , briefly touched on as mentioned. The process is reconciliation of a hard lesson of effectiveness, a saving grace is the process..you've heard the expression, adversity developing character...ipso-facto here.

There are some whom believe the force of the square is so powerful that it is assumed it is the more devastating of them all, but it is this astrologer's opinion it is the opposition which is the more powerful, rendering as-sunder and separating, as two powers come to logger heads boiling back along each other's path of energy until one is completely within the wake of the forces of the other..hence the valuation of separation, the forces take from each other as each is more or less more powerfully expressed in their values and meanings from houses/signs elevation..etc.:sideways:

Here in ends the lesson..The BrotherHood of light based in Los Angeles California has a much more succinct explanation than I am capable of giving here.:happy:

All the best

Vyri
I agree with opposition view. :)
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
For me, no question: opposition is more intense than square; however, in practice a seperating opposition would not be as intense as an exact (exactly 90 degree) square, or even as an applying square within 1 degree of exact,

In Greco-Roman and Arabic astrology, there was a hierarchy of aspects:
-most singificant was a conjunction (however, a conjunction is not technically an ASPECT-there is no "aspecting" in unity)
-next in power, the opposition
-then the square
-next the trine
-least, the sextile
 

wan

Well-known member
I think square is probably more difficult. With this aspect, the two planets are of incompatible element. But with opposition their elements are at least compatible.
 

GeminiGrrl

Well-known member
I can only speak for myself...but in my opinion and experience, I've always perceived squares as being more difficult than oppositions. When two planets are in opposition, they share the same energy (Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable) but in two different yet compatible elements -- they're always either Air-Fire or Earth-Water. In astrology as in nature, Air is favorable to Fire and Water is favorable to Earth. On the other hand, when two planets square each other, they share the same energy but in two different and incompatible elements -- Fire-Earth, Earth-Air, Air-Water, or Water-Fire. Fire with Earth usually ends up with Earth either figuratively smothering Fire or Fire turning Earth into a volcano -- and not in a good way. Earth with Air usually ends up with Earth either figuratively suffocating Air or being stirred up into a sand storm. Air with Water usually means that Air either gets drowned or Water gets stirred up into a hurricane. Water with Fire usually means that Fire gets extinguished or Water ends up boiling.

At least in my opinion, signs in opposition essentially want the same things deep down but choose to pursue them in very different ways -- Aries and Libra both want justice, Taurus and Scorpio both want security, Gemini and Sagittarius both want knowledge, Cancer and Capricorn both want stability, Leo and Aquarius both want to rise above it all, etc. Signs in square, however, are very different from each other and do not want the same things even though they share the same energy -- as an example, Aries loves to take risks while Cancer and Capricorn usually prefer to play it safe, and Aquarius remains emotionally detached while nothing could be further from the truth for either Scorpio or Taurus.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Old Ibn Ezra (12th century CE) gave analogies for various astrological aspects (and other astrological factors):

+concerning a square, he said... "it is like 2 people each struggling for dominion over the other"...

+concerning an opposition he said:..."it is like 2 people violently fighting each other"...
 

GeminiGrrl

Well-known member
No, my friend has a lot of opposition in her chart and she doesnt realize how she acts in certain situations. So no, the opp is something you cant see or you are not aware of. The opposition is like a glass wall you cant see, you keep bumping into it, repeating the same behavior until something changes or comes to light.

I wouldn't see that as being the function of having multiple oppositions in the natal chart. I would be more likely to see that as being a function of having a very strong Neptunian influence in the natal chart -- one or more significant planets and/or points in Pisces, one or more significant planets in the twelfth house, one or more significant planets and/or points forming aspects with Neptune, Neptune retrograde, Neptune as a singleton, and/or Neptune as the apex of a yod. Neptune (and by definition Pisces and the twelfth house, both of which are ruled by Neptune) is very good at denying, minimizing, or glossing over whatever it doesn't want to see. There is a reason why the twelfth house is considered to be the house of addictions, the house of illusions, the house of hidden enemies, and the house of the subconscious mind.

I haven't seen your friend's chart...but based on what you've said, I would not be at all surprised if I were to find out that she has a lot of Neptune in her chart. (I speak from personal experience as someone who has a lot of Neptune influence in her own chart and has had to learn how to deal with it -- Neptune can really be a deceptive little sod.) That being said, astrology is really not a magic bullet -- it's a useful tool but not the answer to Life, The Universe, And Everything (and yes, that was a deliberate Douglas Adams reference). Astrology represents potentials, not necessarily outcomes. Astrology gives us a natal chart, but it's up to each one of us to decide what we'll do with the hand we've been dealt -- and trying to fight with our natal chart (and therefore ourselves) usually doesn't do us a lot of good. Choosing to learn about astrology can help us understand ourselves better -- but we can always choose not to know, and nobody can force us to know ourselves if we don't want to. Some people really don't want to know themselves or don't think they need to -- and at least as often as not, that has more to do with psychology than astrology. Also, while astrology can help you understand yourself better, it cannot necessarily make you govern yourself better. It can offer clues regarding what steps you can take to do so..but again, whether or not you do it comes down to a choice (one which you can always decide not to make).
 
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Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
I wouldn't see that as being the function of having multiple oppositions in the natal chart. I would be more likely to see that as being a function of having a very strong Neptunian influence in the natal chart -- one or more significant planets and/or points in Pisces, one or more significant planets in the twelfth house, one or more significant planets and/or points forming aspects with Neptune, Neptune retrograde, Neptune as a singleton, and/or Neptune as the apex of a yod. Neptune (and by definition Pisces and the twelfth house, both of which are ruled by Neptune) is very good at denying, minimizing, or glossing over whatever it doesn't want to see. There is a reason why the twelfth house is considered to be the house of addictions, the house of illusions, the house of hidden enemies, and the house of the subconscious mind.

I haven't seen your friend's chart...but based on what you've said, I would not be at all surprised if I were to find out that she has a lot of Neptune in her chart. (I speak from personal experience as someone who has a lot of Neptune influence in her own chart and has had to learn how to deal with it -- Neptune can really be a deceptive little sod.) That being said, astrology is really not a magic bullet -- it's a useful tool but not the answer to Life, The Universe, And Everything (and yes, that was a deliberate Douglas Adams reference). Astrology represents potentials, not necessarily outcomes. Astrology gives us a natal chart, but it's up to each one of us to decide what we'll do with the hand we've been dealt -- and trying to fight with our natal chart (and therefore ourselves) usually doesn't do us a lot of good. Choosing to learn about astrology can help us understand ourselves better -- but we can always choose not to know, and nobody can force us to know ourselves if we don't want to. Some people really don't want to know themselves or don't think they need to -- and at least as often as not, that has more to do with psychology than astrology. Also, while astrology can help you understand yourself better, it cannot necessarily make you govern yourself better. It can offer clues regarding what steps you can take to do so..but again, whether or not you do it comes down to a choice (one which you can always decide not to make).

She happens to be a Pisces or Aries Asc depending on the house system. She has planets in the 1st and 7th. And other planets scattered, I haven't delved into her chart as of yet because I'm busy with learning other things.
 
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