Indications of Homosexuality

Thanks to this thread, whether there are or are not indicators of homosexuality in the chart has become of less interest to me than the readiness of astrologers to associate homosexuality with "hard" aspects (oh, the tension), Uranus (oh, the rebellion), and "difficult placements" (oh, the chagrin). ...Seems like kind of an antiquated, narrow-minded, Dark Ages, and sad, unfortunate way for us to be looking at something as wonderful as owning up to our true same-sex drive. (BTW, I apologize if I'm echoing someone else's thoughts previously posted here, but this thread has gotten quite lengthy. This is just to say: I'm in agreement with your disappointment.)

for example, just to play devil's advocate, why wouldn't homosexuality be indicated by trines, rather than squares, since trines inherently facilitate, as in "make it easier!"

i'm sure coming out probably IS very tension-filled for some people (and you know this if you've watched the first few seasons of Ellen...or any season of American Idol), but this isn't the case for everyone. personally, i just don't see homosexuality as being a "square" thing (for me).

Hence the difficulty in generalizing. So many different people with so many different stories.

Sign me,
Mars-Uranus CONJUNCT

Yes James, indeed, it does not have to be squares alone. What squares could indicate probably is the difficulty to admit this in oneself. When it is a trine, the person does not care what people seem to think of his/her preferred sexuality.

james said:

i'm sure coming out probably IS very tension-filled for some people (and you know this if you've watched the first few seasons of Ellen...or any season of American Idol), but this isn't the case for everyone. personally, i just don't see homosexuality as being a "square" thing (for me).

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Beautifully said. I distinctly remember the word deviance (hope that was realting to "the norm", but I let is slide).

I think to say that one can definitely not deduct from the natal chart a person's sexuality/the way a person relates to his sexuality is to say that one can definitely not deduct from a natal chart how a person would relate to confrontation/money/communication/childhood/romance/work/art/passion/philosophy/status/society/privacy.

As for aspects, I think homosexuality would maybe lie in conjunctions, added onto by squares and trines as secondary indicators (mabe, just maybe).

Still loving this post, just focus on the actual subject at hand and not the debate people, please.

my venus is in sag of course, in the 5th , her mars is 13 degree sag my venus 19 sag

saturnsrainbow said:

my venus is in sag of course, in the 5th , her mars is 13 degree sag my venus 19 sag

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I figured you two had your mars and venus conjunct, good connection. Mars and Venus conjuncts are one of the best indicators for a harmonious relationship.

By the way, nice picture.


Astrologer4U

tyvm, venus' influence has been much appreciated in many ways, my chart is on singing talents/interests discussion if u care for a look, blessed be

Geez. I'm not able to express my thoughts on this clearly (silly Mercury in Taurus). I'm not even making any sense to myself. But that doesnt matter.

Mars-Neptune aspects(confusion of manhood), mars/Venus-Uranus (feeling different sexually or being experimental in sex), and these planets in the 1st house can be one of the reasons.
But the real reason should somehow be found in the 4th house (early education), 10th house (social surrounding) as well as talking about this with the client or person who wants to know him/herself better. Wanting to know why you are gay is comparative with wanting to know why you are shy or aggressive or fearful. Saturn aspects in the chart will give you a clue. Other chart indicators will show you where it originated from.

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If you've already got it figured out, then why are we still having a discussion? Also, you look at those areas as reasons or causes for homosexuality. I would say that as long as you agree that heterosexuality can be found in the 4th and 10th houses, then I agree. Making it a unique set of aspects and placements seems too much like homosexuality would be viewed as "something in the childhood went wrong".

I think to say that one can definitely not deduct from the natal chart a person's sexuality/the way a person relates to his sexuality is to say that one can definitely not deduct from a natal chart how a person would relate to confrontation/money/communication/childhood/romance/work/art/passion/philosophy/status/society/privacy.

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That's not what I meant to say. I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I agree with the above statement. As long as you separate "a person's sexuality" from "straight or gay". Does that make sense?

Anyway, I'm done debating. I might as well post my aspects. Oh wait, I dont have any of the aspects you listed. Does that mean I'm not really gay? Haha. Well, here's my chart, attached.

ScorpiosRock--

I agree with you that homophobia is still a serious issue in many parts of the world. Sadly, gay-bashing still exists even in parts of the world that strongly promote human rights.

Re: your question about the 7th house indicating marriage--a problem in places where same-sex marriage is illegal. The 7th house can indicate long-term partnerships of various kinds, ranging from loving relationships to business partners. It would also include long-term heterosexual or same-sex couples who do not marry.

The 4th and 10th house axis likewise represent many different things, but a person's sexual orientation is not one of them.

Eternalautumn, I am OK with a serious discussion of this topic so long as it includes astrology, is not homophobic, and not insulting to participants.

My personal belief is that professional astrologers who read thousands of charts and publish widely do not seem to feel that one's sexual orientation can be read off a chart. I accept their superior experience.

Well read the sentence that follows that sentence and you might see why I mentioned both of them. =P

Re: your question about the 7th house indicating marriage--a problem in places where same-sex marriage is illegal. The 7th house can indicate long-term partnerships of various kinds, ranging from loving relationships to business partners. It would also include long-term heterosexual or same-sex couples who do not marry.

The 4th and 10th house axis likewise represent many different things, but a person's sexual orientation is not one of them

My personal belief is that professional astrologers who read thousands of charts and publish widely do not seem to feel that one's sexual orientation can be read off a chart. I accept their superior experience.

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THANK YOU!

Thank you waybread and gaer. I called for backup; I thought you guys would never show up. Haha. =]

Eternalautumn, I am OK with a serious discussion of this topic so long as it includes astrology, is not homophobic, and not insulting to participants.

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I definitely think we're on the borderline of homophobic and insulting. Hopefully we can get past all that.

Yup. You're not really gay. It's all in your mind. You can now choose not to be gay.

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Haha! I guess my dad was right. Figures. =P

But my point all along is that what we can see, with some success, is the likelyhood of someone being open, and I *do* see indicators of that.

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I like that. I agree. I am under the impression that astrology does not change rules or make certain exceptions for certain types of people. It's all the same for every human being on the planet. At least I think so.

To mention just one thing astrologically, to keep this topic *about* astrology, I can't imagine anyone with a T-sqare like yours, so close to the angles, Moon, Pluto, Mars, fixed signs, with Aries Sun and Leo Moon, being comfortable not speaking out when what other people are saying is not fair!

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Yeah, I've heard a lot about this T-Square lately. I'm getting kind of worried. I need to research it more. Do you mind maybe expanding on what you see in it, and maybe if anything affects openness or tolerance or things like that? =]

ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

To All,

All non-astrological posts have been moved to the thread: Non-astrological discussion of homosexuality.

Please make it a point to go to that thread to chat about non-astro factors surrounding the issue and to express your opinions on them!!

Posts mostly/only containing sentences like: This is only your opinion.. or I do not think so below a copy-paste of a quote have been deleted.

Please try not to copy-paste an entire post (quote) by somebody else at the top of your post and then put your brief contribution at the end of your post. Please reverse this and put your contribution at the beginning and the long quote/post below it, if you must copy an entire post/quote by someone else into your post. This makes it much easier for the reader, who is interested in reading the latest astro contribution/opinion.

Thanks,
AQ7

Re: ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

All non-astrological posts - the latest ones discussing deletion of posts - have, this time, been moved to the thread: No more secret deleted posts.

Please make it a point to go to that thread to chat about non-astro factors surrounding the issue and to express your opinions on them!!

Cheers,
AQ7

Re: ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

I'm gonna continue...? Can a parent's chart alter anything in a child. I haven't ever thought about it this way, but is there any chance that this could be? Of course if this is true it would alter other things in a person's life, so I guess my third question is does a parents natal chart have any influence on the child's life? (not trying to blame the parents)

PS: I hope this doesn't make it sound like I've just regressed astrologically, but if you can do relationship charts surely a parent's chart might have some influence. Or maybe even the chart of the ideal suitor.

Re: ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

Or maybe it could be an early progression.

Re: ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

ScorpiosRock, of course parents have tremendous influence on their children. To find out what that might be, look for the parental indicators in a child's chart (MC/IC axis, sun, Saturn, Moon, Venus.) These won't give you an objective reading on the parents, but will express the child's experience of them. Even better would be to do the synastry between parent and child.

In terms of homosexuality, back in the days when psychologists saw it as "deviance", cold, dominating mothers were blamed for homosexual sons. Fortunately those days are over.

Re: ASTROLOGICAL Indications of Homosexuality

waybread said:

In terms of homosexuality, back in the days when psychologists saw it as "deviance", cold, dominating mothers were blamed for homosexual sons. Fortunately those days are over.

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Unfortunately back in those days the parents and the children believed what the psychologist were saying and to this day, the parents and the children are doing the same thing, relying on outsiders to *stamp* them with an understanding of self. Unfortunately nothing has really changed.

The natal chart of a person only shows the inidications of possibilties when trying to understand the psychology of a person. The world that we as individuals grow up in, shapes that psychology into either a positive, negative or inbetween direction. Which ever way we choose to be shaped depending on the circumstances.

It has been my experience whenever you see Uranus on an angular house it usually will denote a person who will make an conscious decision to be straight or gay. These people also seem to "attract" both sexes. I also think there is never just one "aspect" that would denote those that "were" born that way. Stelliums of planets in a Mercury ruled sign Sun, Mercury, Venus in Gemini with a Mars in Aries. Uranus on the cusp of the first house. Moon in the 12th. Moon/Uranus Aspect . Cusp of 7th House in Aquarius (unusual partner). These are some "key" things found in the chart of a gay woman who is quote "gay by choice". Look also to the declinations as there will usually be additional clues in parallels or contra-parallels. I have also looked at the charts of some men who to me had "gay signatures' with in the chart. When I asked about this...they said they would be gay but they didn't like the smell of male "pheromones" this was a Gemini male with Mars in Aquarius and a Scorpio Moon. I do not remember any other particulars about his chart though.

FleetingDasein said:

I got Venus Square Uranus/Neptune and I've done some experimentation with the same sex. With Venus Square Uranus, I think most of it is done just for experimentation sake's and not because you are particurarly into it. Romantically speaking, I have remained straight.

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As Dasein said,

Having a Venus square Uranus can indicate homosexuality, according to traditional astrology. Can sexuality be found in the chart? As I often suggest, if we are going to pursue "quintessential" gay aspects, then where are, and what are, the "quintessential" straight aspects?

Being someone with Venus square Uranus, and Venus trine Mars (which I might read as the "ideal straight aspect" as this is the harmonious blend between Venus and Mars) I can say that I've experienced both.

Sigh, but what was most gratifying? I don't know.

I know for a fact it is was *not* mere experimentation.

Venus is in the 8th, Uranus is in the 12th, and Mars in the 1st.

I get "read' as bisexual.


Mod.

Having a Venus square Uranus can indicate homosexuality, according to traditional astrology.

How? Traditional astrology didnt even know about Uranus.

Lil

lillyjgc said:

Having a Venus square Uranus can indicate homosexuality, according to traditional astrology.

How? Traditional astrology didnt even know about Uranus.

Lil

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Right, my bad. I was thinking about Liz Greene.

She's not traditional but she's "old-school" in a lot of respects.

Oops.