Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
Would Saturn represent father-issues?
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Quite possibly. I consider the Capricorn/Cancer axis as a parental axis first. I believe the Tenth House, and by correspondence Capricorn, is the critical parent rather than the nuturing parent (Cancer). Sometimes the critical parent is the mother, though most of the time the father is the critical parent. Both roles are supportive of the offspring. This reflects the contradiction in theory about which house personifies the father.

In a single-parent family, it gets ambiguous.
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
One last question on this situation: Who's Pluto? What's Pluto's role in the combination of the 3?
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That addresses the difference of me being a Modern astrologer rather than a Conventional astrologer (most I've met are Conventional). The planetary combination Moon/Pluto/Saturn is the primary signal. The signs and houses follow in importance. I would consider the planetary combination first and refine the matter second using signs and houses. The signs are more reliable.

In that example, I will not personify Pluto, or not until I address the Moon/Saturn/Pluto theme as a trio influence, that is a signal more specific than any planetary pair.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I agree. The Signs modify by strength and quality, but the planet's have their own intrinsic natures and relationships with one another. Except, I take it a step further, and include planetary relationships beyond how they Aspect each other, although that's definitely a prime consideration.
Thanks for all your well-considered answers!
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
Just for fun, how about Pluto as an aloof, mysterious uncle that Father Saturn wants nothing to do with? :biggrin:
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I prefer to personify with at least two planets combined. That is the kind of specificity that personification calls for. Traditional astrologers might personify an astrologer as Mercury; a Contemporary astrologer might personify an astrologer as Uranus; but I would prefer to personify an astrologer as Mercury/Uranus.

I would prefer to personify a therapist (psychiatrist, psychologist, psychiatric social worker, healing counselor) as Moon/Pluto.

I prefer to personify a scholar as Mercury/Jupiter, etc, etc, etc
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Cary2 said:
I prefer to personify with at least two planets combined. That is the kind of specificity that personification calls for. Traditional astrologers might personify an astrologer as Mercury; a Contemporary astrologer might personify an astrologer as Uranus; but I would prefer to personify an astrologer as Mercury/Uranus.

I would prefer to personify a therapist (psychiatrist, psychologist, psychiatric social worker, healing counselor) as Moon/Pluto.

I prefer to personify a scholar as Mercury/Jupiter, etc, etc, etc
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So, would the Moon opposite Pluto combination qualify as therapist? Maybe healing using occult practices?
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
So, would the Moon opposite Pluto combination qualify as therapist? Maybe healing using occult practices?
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Opposition probably doesn't disqualify it from "therapist". I'm not saying it is not an affliction; I'm just saying that afflictions are not all bad despite the ancient name.

It is not inavlid to personify with a single planet; it is just less reliable. I started with the pairs I learned form Rheinhold Ebertin in The Combination of Stellar Influences, but I added those from Martin Seymour-Smith, and then I discovered my own. I learned that recording artist is Venus/Uranus when that distinction is appropriate on my own. I can't think of the others at the moment, but some are my own discovery after years of this discipline. When you study charts from a database, you see patterns rather boldly.

When you deal with groups of three factors, you see that some groups tend to be benefic despite afflictions, and you see some groups tend to be malefic despite "harmonious" aspects.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Cary2 said:
Opposition probably doesn't disqualify it from "therapist". I'm not saying it is not an affliction; I'm just saying that afflictions are not all bad despite the ancient name.

It is not inavlid to personify with a single planet; it is just less reliable. I started with the pairs I learned form Rheinhold Ebertin in The Combination of Planetary Influences, but I added those from Martin Seymour-Smith, and then I discovered my own. I learned that recording artist is Venus/Uranus when that distinction is appropriate on my own. I can't think of the others at the moment, but some are my own discovery after years of this discipline. When you study charts from a database, you see patterns rather boldly.

When you deal with groups of three factors, you see that some groups tend to be benefic despite afflictions, and you see some groups tend to be malefic despite "harmonious" aspects.
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Are these pairings you've validated subject to a noticeable pattern of variation, based on how they're connected by Aspect?
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
So, would the Moon opposite Pluto combination qualify as therapist? Maybe healing using occult practices?
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In the case of Moon/Pluto, Pluto is more often "psychology" than "occult". Pluto will more often be occult with Saturn and Mars. You can see the problem of using Pluto alone.

Moon/Pluto actually means "human behavior" as a study. A person with Jupiter = Moon/Pluto is "a good psychologist" which might be one who is perceptive of human nature even without the university degree.
 
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Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
Are these pairings you've validated subject to a noticeable pattern of variation, based on how they're connected by Aspect?
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Sure, you have to synthesize according to context. Mercury/Pluto can be salesman, criminal, coder/decoder, detective, or plot/scheme (as in Ponzi sheme) each according to context. Pairs have always displayed that characteristic.

You know that some astrology handbooks don't list aspects with canned interpretations; they will list planetary pairs with examples like the above.
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
Just to clarify, are you using "=" to mean opposition ?
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To cosmobiologists, "=" means direct midpoint which I think is conj and oppostion. Indirect would be square and semisquare and sesquiquadrate. I am using it merely as an example.

You see, any pair has two midpoints, a closer midpoint and a farther midpoint. The farther midpoint is 180-degrees from the nearer. Cosmobiologists don't make a big distinction between conj., opposition, or square to a midpoint. They are all three widely available and nearly equally valid. The more you use them, the more you come to agree.
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
I've noticed that Convention hesitates to label Sun in Aquarius as an "affliction", but is quick to label Moon in Capricorn as such.
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Yeah, I think there is a strong bias against Moon in Capricorn. I've met complete novice amateurs who will tell blood-curdling tales of Moon in Capricorn. It's partly urban legend.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
A San Francisco astrologer walks from his apartment to the nearby convenience store to buy some lottery tickets. He takes his phone-camera along. Transiting Pluto, Rx, is within one or two minutes of conjunction with his powerful natal Mars; the two planets are not in natal aspect.

Walking out of the store and into the parking lot, the astrologer notices some crows and decides to take a picture of the comical black birds. A human couple, strangers to the astrologer, also fall into the viewfinder. They are angry that the astrologer has taken their picture. An argument ensues. And then the astrologer is stabbed, seriously wounded.

Pluto can bring danger without natal aspect.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
greybeard said:
A San Francisco astrologer walks from his apartment to the nearby convenience store to buy some lottery tickets. He takes his phone-camera along. Transiting Pluto, Rx, is within one or two minutes of conjunction with his powerful natal Mars; the two planets are not in natal aspect.

Walking out of the store and into the parking lot, the astrologer notices some crows and decides to take a picture of the comical black birds. A human couple, strangers to the astrologer, also fall into the viewfinder. They are angry that the astrologer has taken their picture. An argument ensues. And then the astrologer is stabbed, seriously wounded.

Pluto can bring danger without natal aspect.
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I pay a LOT of attention to transits, independent of Natal, which is a different matter, along with SR Charts.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Another Pluto transit, this time with Sun...

Leo rising. Pluto in early Leo, well inside 12th house. Sun in Scorpio 4th, not in close square to Pluto but surely square by sign and in mutual reception--they cooperate.

Transiting Pluto comes to EXACT semi-square (octile) of unprecessed natal Sun (age about 45...also note SA Sun aspects) and suicide follows.

Tragic life well-depicted simply by the Sun-Pluto 4-12th square...abandoned by his parents on the streets of Las Vegas at age 9, he spent 18 of his 45 years in prisons. At the end his health collapsed, left him a skeleton wrapped in loose skin with no meaningful future...and his suicide.

He told me that his life had been such a mess because he was so self-centered.
 
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