Venus at the equator

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Hi Jupiter

Just to refreshing memory, Venus is nocturnal sect planet and so their joyful place would be under the horizon, right? Thank you in advance, cheers!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi Jupiter
Just to refreshing memory, Venus is nocturnal sect planet
and so their joyful place would be under the horizon, right?
Thank you in advance, cheers!
subtle difference between Paulus and Valens
could well be stated as follows :smile:

(a) for Paulus et al, in sect planets = "members of the party in power on Team Native"
EVEN THOUGH they ARE "THE PARTY IN POWER and ON TEAM NATIVE"
are out of sect when those planets ARE NOT LOCATED where they would be able to
wield that sect power


(b) for Valens et al, when in sect planets = "members of the party in power on Team Native"
EVEN THOUGH they ARE "THE PARTY IN POWER and on TEAM NATIVE"
are out of sect when those planets ARE NOT LOCATED where they would be able to
wield that sect power


nevertheless
for Valens et al, at least


those planets are considered only slightly out of sect
and not completely out of sect:
i.e.
their condition is instead described as being in 'halb'.

Thus, planets in 'halb'
are described by Valens
as being in sect
BUT
'situated contrary to their nature'. :smile:

and so
If the nocturnal planets in a diurnal chart are below the horizon
although they are out of sect/not of the party in power and so AGAINST TEAM NATIVE
they are still in hayz and so more natural
- but nocturnal planets that are above the horizon in a diurnal chart
are situated contrary to their nature (halb).

2.) In a nocturnal chart
the nocturnal planets are best placed the upper hemisphere away from the Sun (hayz).
Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart
are still in sect/ ON TEAM NATIVE
but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).

 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
subtle difference between Paulus and Valens
could well be stated as follows :smile:

(a) for Paulus et al, in sect planets = "members of the party in power on Team Native"
EVEN THOUGH they ARE "THE PARTY IN POWER and ON TEAM NATIVE"
are out of sect when those planets ARE NOT LOCATED where they would be able to
wield that sect power


(b) for Valens et al, when in sect planets = "members of the party in power on Team Native"
EVEN THOUGH they ARE "THE PARTY IN POWER and on TEAM NATIVE"
are out of sect when those planets ARE NOT LOCATED where they would be able to
wield that sect power


nevertheless
for Valens et al, at least


those planets are considered only slightly out of sect
and not completely out of sect:
i.e.
their condition is instead described as being in 'halb'.

Thus, planets in 'halb'
are described by Valens
as being in sect
BUT
'situated contrary to their nature'. :smile:

and so
If the nocturnal planets in a diurnal chart are below the horizon
although they are out of sect/not of the party in power and so AGAINST TEAM NATIVE
they are still in hayz and so more natural
- but nocturnal planets that are above the horizon in a diurnal chart
are situated contrary to their nature (halb).

2.) In a nocturnal chart
the nocturnal planets are best placed the upper hemisphere away from the Sun (hayz).
Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart
are still in sect/ ON TEAM NATIVE
but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).


I should quote this before being alerted. Thank, Jupiter! :biggrin:
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Those are excellent clear images, thankyou :smile:

for good understanding of Night Skies check out Michel van Biezen


Astronomy - Ch. 2:
Understanding the Night Sky (5 of 23)
Understanding the Celestial Sphere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPtG8fTpTIE

Moon currently applying to Sun's beams, approximately in at least 30° from the Sun. Do you feel the torridity, Jupiter?

About the IC, I already got the idea. IC always related to night Zenith and the MC always related to noon Zenith. However, the question now expand to the "transition" of the planets in the "rise" and the "setting". Do you have any idea?

Okay, I'm sure to watch the video which you provided.

Thanks
R
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Moon currently applying to Sun's beams, approximately in at least 30° from the Sun.
Do you feel the torridity, Jupiter?
About the IC, I already got the idea.
IC always related to night Zenith and the MC always related to noon Zenith.
However, the question now expand to the "transition" of the planets

in the "rise" and the "setting".
Do you have any idea?

Okay, I'm sure to watch the video which you provided.

Thanks
R
To Sun :smile:

- video explains with illustration and great detail
after watching your understanding of "transition" will be clear
there are many videos with this series
all videos worth studying
especially
UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT OF THE CELESTIAL SPHERE
that is the key
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
To Sun

Agreed that Sect concepts of HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY
were not used for Horary by Vettius Valens
because
there was no Horary at that time :smile:

As a matter of interest
and for discussion and clarification solely
we are in midst of discussion on the original concept of SECT
according to Hellenistic astrology
in order to distinguish from
occidentality and orientality relative to
later Horary astrology
so now we continue our discussion with occidentality and orientality :smile:

Benjamin Dykes explains https://www.bendykes.com/product-category/questions/
in introduction to his translation
of Bonatti's 'Book Of Astronomy'
three different ways
in which astrological literature used the terms oriental and occidental:

Quote:

1. Planets are oriental if they rise visibly before the Sun
and occidental if they set visibly after him.
There were differing opinions on the longitudinal interval a planet had to be in
and whether the intervals were of equal significance.

2. Planets are oriental if they are in the eastern quadrant between the Ascendant and Midheaven
i.e., where the Sun rises
or the one opposite to it
and occidental if they are on the western quadrant between the Midheaven and the 7th
i.e.,when the Sun sets
or the one opposite to it.

3. Planets are oriental if they are currently
or within 7 days before or after the nativity
rising out of the Suns beams and will become visible at sunrise or sunset;
they are occidental if they are currently
or within seven days before or after the nativity
sinking into the Suns beams
and will become invisible at sunrise or sunset.
In Hellenistic astrology this was known as phasis
and the distance from the Sun at which this arising or sinking would happen
was standardised at 15 degrees.
According to this definition
the inferiors can be oriental
or pertainingto-arising
on either side of the Sun
since they can arise both while going direct and on their retrograde path.
Book of Astronomy, Guido Bonatti, translated by Benjamin Dykes, 2007, page Ixxxii-Ixxxiii

Thank you :biggrin:
R
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
the sun obviously changes its position and effect depending on its location for places other than the equatorial zone. It would be foolish to assume that the same processes do not equally apply to the moon and the other five planets, and that these places are not most obviously divided into four seasons, each with three equal parts. If this happens to not occur at the equator because north and south differ only in location, but not in effect (by elevation), then it logically follows that these places experience all the effects of the stars and angles, but zero effect from the so-called tropical zodiac.

In these geographical places, it is most wise to use only the planets and their aspects with each other, and particularly their placement relative to the sun (the four phases) and the angles (for they are in full effect here as elsewhere compared to the polar regions). It is not natural to employ the usual division of houses, triangles, elevations and terms here, instead the sublunar influence of heat, moisture, dryness and cold is wholly decided upon the other factors relative to the universe and the nativity - see https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126640

note that places just below the tropics still experience some degree of change in effect, so they must still give proportional power to the zodiac. Suppose some planet at the exact equator is always operative relative to the zodiac, it can still be powerful, operative or inoperative relative to its phase with respect to the universe, and powerful, operative or inoperative relative to the angles with respect to the nativity, and not to mention the great power of planets intermingling with each other or with their aspects, which cause the greater change in the quality of the seed. The so-called zodiac is definitely not a necessity for the natural method of inquiry, and in fact, it is simply nonexistent for certain latitudes.

.....

..
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1018020&postcount=33
petosiris
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,695


Re: Orb-influence
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling
There were some disagreements among ancient astrologers though. So, Traditionalists have to choose one opinion over another in many cases. Valens, Ptolemy, and Morinus, for example, weren't identical regarding their systems.

There were indeed many disagreements, but also many agreements, because they were all doing causative physicalist astrology:

Quote:
A very few considerations would make it apparent to all that a certain power emanating from the eternal ethereal substance is dispersed through and permeates the whole region about the earth, which throughout is subject to change, since, of the primary sublunar elements, fire and air are encompassed and changed by the motions in the ether, and in turn encompass and change all else, earth and water and the plants and animals therein... - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/1A*.html#2
Quote:
Nature, sending to us emanations from her immortal elements, creates and fashions piece-by-piece the universal structure of everything, unalterable and invariant. Nature directs the universe without exceeding the bounds of law. She supports the cosmos, awakening and recycling it to immense ages. Sometimes she destroys, expends, and brings to oblivion the tribes of men and beasts, and the kinds of plants and crops; sometimes she begets, nourishes, and rejuvenates others. No earthly thing is everlasting or extremely long-lived, nor is any <totally> destroyed or desolate, thus causing the bereft earth to assume a formless character. No, the earth is piloted by the heavenly bodies, glorified by the good things in it, made splendid and transfigured by the different colors, and takes on its lovely shape—for none of the elements is unshapely. These elements rejuvenate the sea which is exercised by the winds and tides, and because of its needs <?> the elements restore it with streams and springs pouring down out of the earth... - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
Quote:
''The action and power of the caelum and the stars and the wondrous things described in this book are proved by experience. In this chapter, as a final summation, we will show that no causes in nature depict God's action in the created universe more perfectly than do the celestial bodies through their power and influence... - Morinus, translation by Richard S. Baldwin''
This should be the primary thing to consider when studying these authors. Did they succeed in what they sought to accomplish or they failed? For this reason I accept most things from Ptolemy and utterly reject others, same as with Morinus and other authors, some of their opinions and criticism are well-deserved and reasonable, some are not.

Last edited by petosiris; Yesterday at 03:43 PM.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE

The full cycle of Venus is 800 years.

Maya catalogued Venus for thousands of years :smile:
interesting to note the correlation of the cycle of Venus
with that of Jupiter Saturn SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE


Of interest when using MUNDANE ASTROLOGY in particular


 
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