ukdesifem
Well-known member
then we agree to disagree. It's just to keep an open mind, in that we don't know if it were possible.
How astrology works
- Thread starter ja7me
- Start date
then we agree to disagree. It's just to keep an open mind, in that we don't know if it were possible.
We live in a largely reductionist society. For more than a 1000 years before the beginning of the industrial revolution the ascendent philosophy was the dominant one. Since the advent of science, scientism has developed, and people now are stuck in believing that it doesn't exist if there is no see it touch it reason for its existence. Even most people believe that the brain is the mind, rather than the reality that the brain only exists to bring the mind out into the physical.
In astrology as in medicine and many areas, researchers continually look for and expect to find a silver bullet causal one-to-one relationship for how things work. Sometimes their causal relationships are even ridiculous like using a trace gas as the mover and shaker of climate change.
But the reality is that astrology is not a silver bullet direct causal set of circumstances. Its a set or circumstances that is a subset of Chaos Theory(search the archives for a long discussion on astrology and chaos theory). This does not cause that. This and this and this and that influence this when this and that and this are happenings. But if that changes, then all bets are off.
ukdesifem
Well-known member
I'm just saying there may be measurable forces we don't know nor understand. So astrology very well could be scienftifically valid.
ukdesifem
Well-known member
Yes, cause and effect is complex. However, it doesn't make sense to say that astrology has no material basis. Any good scientist would have an open mind, as the scientific method isn't perfect, it's just the best method we have of testing knowledge and how the universe is, and no scientific conclusion is perfect or absolute.
We've reached the end of the reductionist method. Please read about complexity theory.
Having an open mind now is counter productive to getting the grants that you need to do science. Ask my PhD scientist son about that sometime.
Are you a PhD level scientist? Are you a close relative to any PhD level scientist?
Your view of science is fine if that were what science had devolved into, but it has not. Science is now handled by politics not scientists. All research is funded and determined by not scientists by either corporations who are looking for something to sell, or some way to increase global power(such as Monsanto for example), or governments who have an agenda. Science has devolved into the religion of scientism.
Scientism is totally reductionist, and will never figure out how astrology works because astrology is an element of complexity theory, not reductionist theory.
Your view of science is fine if that were what science had devolved into, but it has not. Science is now handled by politics not scientists. All research is funded and determined by not scientists by either corporations who are looking for something to sell, or some way to increase global power(such as Monsanto for example), or governments who have an agenda. Science has devolved into the religion of scientism.
Scientism is totally reductionist, and will never figure out how astrology works because astrology is an element of complexity theory, not reductionist theory.
ukdesifem
Well-known member
erm.....well you have your views, I have mine. Whether celestial objects control humans on Earth may be true, though this is all I am saying. I personally suspect it is, though it's not something I can prove, and this merely to answer the OP. The current paradigm of scientific inquiry is not perfect, but no human-based system is, or perhaps can be.
jproton
Well-known member
Maybe I should try not necessarily bring everything back to astrology. Although the fact that I study leads me to use it to answer everything.
There are cases where it is needed and others where the simplest solutions are the best. Each person is unique, I would not vulgarly generalize their features in terms of birth chart or anything else that could reduce their potential, which does not really correspond to how they appear to others directly.. Others often have ideas that are more in line with public opinion.
I wish you a good night =)
There are cases where it is needed and others where the simplest solutions are the best. Each person is unique, I would not vulgarly generalize their features in terms of birth chart or anything else that could reduce their potential, which does not really correspond to how they appear to others directly.. Others often have ideas that are more in line with public opinion.
I wish you a good night =)
"However, it doesn't make sense to say that astrology has no material basis."
Why doesn't it make sense?
To say this is to say that "I already have my view of what is and is not possible. I reject the possibility of a non-material basis for astrology beforehand."
Not a particularly scientific starting-point for one who "stands on the scientific method."
It doesn't make sense that a particle can be in many places at one time, or that observation of the particle leads it to behave in a certain way. Yet that seems to be the fact. Might this say that a particle can be affected by non-material means, that is by the simple act of observation?
And there is the phenomenon of "Entanglement" in which two related particles, regardless of the distance between them, act "in unison". There is no known material basis for this now-accepted scientific fact. This makes no sense at all; how can two particles light years apart act as if each knows what the other is doing with no material connection? Entanglement applies to the planets and to humans, because we are both children of the same solar system. We are "one", are related, and therefore entangled.
Why doesn't it make sense?
To say this is to say that "I already have my view of what is and is not possible. I reject the possibility of a non-material basis for astrology beforehand."
Not a particularly scientific starting-point for one who "stands on the scientific method."
It doesn't make sense that a particle can be in many places at one time, or that observation of the particle leads it to behave in a certain way. Yet that seems to be the fact. Might this say that a particle can be affected by non-material means, that is by the simple act of observation?
And there is the phenomenon of "Entanglement" in which two related particles, regardless of the distance between them, act "in unison". There is no known material basis for this now-accepted scientific fact. This makes no sense at all; how can two particles light years apart act as if each knows what the other is doing with no material connection? Entanglement applies to the planets and to humans, because we are both children of the same solar system. We are "one", are related, and therefore entangled.
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Elra
Active member
My journey thus far about trying to understand how Astrology works is that ive been experiencing 'illumination after illumination'. My sense is that this will continue right up until my passing. This is comforting as it makes every day special 
A beautiful blaze of unity it seems to be!
A beautiful blaze of unity it seems to be!
ukdesifem
Well-known member
I'm not a spiritual person..i made that clear prior. I don't have to defend my beliefs to people on a website.
I wasn't asking you or anyone else to defend anything.
However, as a scientific materialist.....answer the questions science poses for you.
Explain entanglement.
Refute Heisenberg.
Debunk the many experiments.
There is "something" out there that is tenuous and beyond the material.
That's "hard science" my friend,.. has nothing to do with "spirituality".
You come into the forum asking for opiinion or fact that will help explain "how astrology works," and then rudely dismiss anyone who disagrees with your prejudices. Nice work if you can get it.
Gosh, and I thought you came here to learn and share like most of us do.
However, as a scientific materialist.....answer the questions science poses for you.
Explain entanglement.
Refute Heisenberg.
Debunk the many experiments.
There is "something" out there that is tenuous and beyond the material.
That's "hard science" my friend,.. has nothing to do with "spirituality".
You come into the forum asking for opiinion or fact that will help explain "how astrology works," and then rudely dismiss anyone who disagrees with your prejudices. Nice work if you can get it.
Gosh, and I thought you came here to learn and share like most of us do.
ukdesifem
Well-known member
I shared my opinion, which seemingly offends you, but that's not my problem..... actually, all i have said in this thread is that astrology may be "real", but may work on grounds we cannot prove yet.....I don't get frankly your angry/subjective rants, and to be honest I'm not bothered, since I've done nothing than assert an opinion you do not like...
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ukdesifem
Well-known member
Maybe celestial objects emit some kind of ray or EM spectrum we don't know of, which can affect the human brain at the moment of birth. seems weird, but then we never know.
ukdesifem
Well-known member
Astrology is not considered 'scientific' in the West
HOWEVER
Vedic Astrology IS a science
Following a judgement of the Andhra Pradesh High Court in 2001, which favoured astrology
and
some Indian universities offer advanced degrees in astrology.
Important to be clear exactly what is being discussed
so do clarify in more detail for those who may not have understood
I guess it depends on how one defines science. I don't think astrology is a science in the way geology or sociology are. it doesn't test real life items, but then i don't see why it shouldn't be taught in universities. universities are for the pursuit of any knowledge, not just hard science. If they can have golf course management as a degree, then why not astrology?
dhundhun
Well-known member
ASTROLOGY is like religion. In religion there are several faiths. In Astrology, also there are several faiths. In religion, there are non-believers. In Astrology also there are non-believers.
How it works? Till date it is any body's guess. Many answers and in reality, no answer. More so because the question can branch into:
- How exactly Western (at times called scientific) astrology work?
- How exactly Vedic Astrology work?
- How exactly Chinese Astrology work?
In fact a planet might be in Sidereal Cancer and Tropical Leo. One person will say it must be influenced by Cancer, other person will say it must be influenced by Leo. So questions extends:
- How come one guy says Cancer and the other guy say Leo? Whom to trust?
- Why can't they resolve their differences?
~ With respect to ASC, Saturn's transit has "restrictive" influence in various houses
~ With respect to ASC, Jupiter's transit has "growth" influence in various house
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ja7me
Well-known member
Hello Everyone,
Wow, thanks for all your comments.
This forum has provided many theory's to how astrology works.
I totally respect each person's theory.
Although I have my own theory (which I discussed at the start of this thread), I would not disregard anyone else's. I am pleased that people consider the workings of astrology. Not only does this make you better astrologers, but also a potential innovator of astrology, someone who can push it forward!
Unless there is a proven scientific theory of astrology, it will always be based on personal experiences.
There are many systems of astrology, each astrologer has to find what works for them. I would be the first to admit that these systems are not perfect. This is why most astrologers such as myself use a variety of techniques, especially in predictive astrology. Combine these methods with good intuition, then you can make your best conclusion.
Jamie Slack
http://jksastrology.com/
Wow, thanks for all your comments.
This forum has provided many theory's to how astrology works.
I totally respect each person's theory.
Although I have my own theory (which I discussed at the start of this thread), I would not disregard anyone else's. I am pleased that people consider the workings of astrology. Not only does this make you better astrologers, but also a potential innovator of astrology, someone who can push it forward!
Unless there is a proven scientific theory of astrology, it will always be based on personal experiences.
There are many systems of astrology, each astrologer has to find what works for them. I would be the first to admit that these systems are not perfect. This is why most astrologers such as myself use a variety of techniques, especially in predictive astrology. Combine these methods with good intuition, then you can make your best conclusion.
Jamie Slack
http://jksastrology.com/