Was this the first time he has been with a man?

anjelik

Well-known member
My friend who is dating my other friend discovered her boyfriend naked with another man. He claims he is not gay and has no idea how this happened and "doesn't remember anything." but then in the next breath claims he didn't have sex. They both are two of my best friends, so I am unsure how to even interpret the chart since they both would be H11. Needless to say my friend is devastated. I don't think this is the first time he has done this, based on general observations which has raised my suspicions about his sexuality in the past. Anyone care to weigh in? I'm just curious what the stars have to say. I see the moon is at 29th degree in Libra, so about to go into its fall... which represents them. Sun (H12 ruler) is square to Moon. 12th house ruler in 5th house. Uranus in the 8th house, so unusual sexual experiences squaring 12th house.
 

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IleneK

Premium Member
In order to separate the two in the chart, is there one with whom you are somewhat closer that you could designate the 11th? Then we could us the opposing house, the 5th, for the other?
Just an idea...
 

anjelik

Well-known member
In order to separate the two in the chart, is there one with whom you are somewhat closer that you could designate the 11th? Then we could us the opposing house, the 5th, for the other?
Just an idea...

I guess because I am inquiring about him, I could assign him the 11th? I would say my friendship is closer with the female, so this is why I am unsure who to give the 11th as they would both be pretty important in the chart. I have known her longer and she is a family friend as well, I am not sure if that makes a difference?
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I guess because I am inquiring about him, I could assign him the 11th? I would say my friendship is closer with the female, so this is why I am unsure who to give the 11th as they would both be pretty important in the chart. I have known her longer and she is a family friend as well, I am not sure if that makes a difference?

I suppose you are just asking about him, so 11th should work as his significator. Not sure your other friend plays any part, now that I think about it. But am pretty stumped as to how one might discern if this is repeat behaviour for him from a horary, so I hope some of our forum heavy-hitters will come up to the plate and share how they see this.

Later: Although now that I think about it, it may be a matter of asking if he is telling the truth when he says he is not gay. Although I suppose he could be not gay and still have had an experience with another man....oh, well...As you can see I am not much help...

And yet more later: And perhaps, and meaning no disrespect whatsoever to you, Angelik, this question may not really be one that is to be answered for you by horary. By that, I mean, your beloved friend told you he is not gay. Your wishing a chart to tell you that he is lying or deluded[?], since you caught him an apparent contradiction, does not really show a heart-felt interest or involvement on your part in this matter. It seems to me one might accept a beloved friend's word, especially in such a delicate situation?

Ah, well, that's enough for me.
Please forgive if I have overstepped.
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
I suppose you are just asking about him, so 11th should work as his significator. Not sure your other friend plays any part, now that I think about it. But am pretty stumped as to how one might discern if this is repeat behaviour for him from a horary, so I hope some of our forum heavy-hitters will come up to the plate and share how they see this.

Later: Although now that I think about it, it may be a matter of asking if he is telling the truth when he says he is not gay. Although I suppose he could be not gay and still have had an experience with another man....oh, well...As you can see I am not much help...

And yet more later: And perhaps, and meaning no disrespect whatsoever to you, Angelik, this question may not really be one that is to be answered for you by horary. By that, I mean, your beloved friend told you he is not gay. Your wishing a chart to tell you that he is lying or deluded[?], since you caught him an apparent contradiction, does not really show a heart-felt interest or involvement on your part in this matter. It seems to me one might accept a beloved friend's word, especially in such a delicate situation?

Ah, well, that's enough for me.
Please forgive if I have overstepped.

Well, he hasn't told me anything yet. My friend (the female) called me crying at 5am when she saw it all. She asked him if he thought he was gay and he said no. He is trying to claim that he has no recollection of being with the guy or her finding them. He is claiming that he woke up and her drawer in his home was empty so he's confused - which is highly possible with the way that he drinks. But I guess that's why I wonder if he's done it before and he's not remembered or just playing dumb because he was caught with his pants down (literally). It's pretty shocking to hear and to know how hurt my female friend is, my heart seriously aches for her. I want to say something to my male friend because I love him too, but I'm too upset with what he's done to her right now unfortunately. I think if this was a one-off thing and he isn't supresssing homosexuality then he needs to go to AA and change his entire lifestyle. I think this is what is referred to as "rock bottom."
 

anjelik

Well-known member
something did happen between them

Thanks tikana. How are you seeing that if I could ask? Are you using him as the moon?

Can we tell if this is something he has done before or can that not be answered through horary? I could re-ask the question as "is he lying?" But it's almost implied in my question anyway. its more of curiosity at this point - I'm pretty sure it's happened before since he brought the man back to his place of residence. If this was his first rodeo I am skeptical he would be so bold.
 
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IleneK

Premium Member
Thanks tikana. How are you seeing that if I could ask? Are you using him as the moon?

Can we tell if this is something he has done before or can that not be answered through horary? I could re-ask the question as "is he lying?" But it's almost implied in my question anyway. its more of curiosity at this point - I'm pretty sure it's happened before since he brought the man back to his place of residence. If this was his first rodeo I am skeptical he would be so bold.

I don't mean to speak for Tik, but her comment took me back to the chart, and this is how I might explain it.
Your friend is Moon, ruler of the 11th and this Other person is Saturn, ruler of the 7th from the 11th, or the 5th.
Moon separates from a sextile to Saturn, pointing to his being with the Other person in the past.
Reception from Other/Saturn to Moon by exaltation indicates strong and variable inclination of the Other to your friend.
Your friend also did receive the Other/Saturn, but by very limited reception, by face.
The reception might explain how something like this could have happened when your friend really wasn't all that into it...
Anyway, that's a possible explanation.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
I don't mean to speak for Tik, but her comment took me back to the chart, and this is how I might explain it.
Your friend is Moon, ruler of the 11th and this Other person is Saturn, ruler of the 7th from the 11th, or the 5th.
Moon separates from a sextile to Saturn, pointing to his being with the Other person in the past.
Reception from Other/Saturn to Moon by exaltation indicates strong and variable inclination of the Other to your friend.
Your friend also did receive the Other/Saturn, but by very limited reception, by face.
The reception might explain how something like this could have happened when your friend really wasn't all that into it...
Anyway, that's a possible explanation.

If we used turned houses then wouldn't we assigned the other man as the 5th house, since this was not his girlfriend - she would be the 7th house. I guess I am just trying to wrap my mind around how someone could invite another man back to their home and go into a hiding spot in the building and then claim he didn't know what he was doing. It almost makes me think he has done this before, for it to escalate to that. I would think stuff like this would start a little slower and build up, instead of full blown like it was. They go to gay bars a lot and he likes to talk about how the men hit on him. I have found that to be interesting that he likes that attention, and for whatever reason my friend never thought it was a bit of a red flag.

Anyway, I digress. If we used the 5th house as the other man, then we are using Venus to represent him - making a square to Saturn (the gf) and conjunct Mars - would we use Mars as a secondary significator for my friend because he is also man. The moon is in the 5th who makes a sextile to his gf (Saturn) - but maybe that isn't strong enough compared to the attraction Mars has to Venus?
 
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IleneK

Premium Member
No. The Other person in this question is this other guy, and he is opposite or the 7th from your friend. His girlfriend is not a direct part of this question.
 
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