Did my boyfriend get anohter girl pregnant?

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redrobin23

Well-known member
I'm not sure where I should begin. Ok, here goes...A few months ago I had a really weird dream that my boyfriend was at a restaurant with another girl and the girl was pregnant by him. I know a dream is not proof enough to say he's cheating on me or not, but it raises my suspicion. Could my dream be trying to tell me something? Or has my paranoia of losing him to another women become an irrational fear? At this point in time, I don't know what to think. All I know is I need clarity from this situation or possibly from him...

Here is the horary chart. Could someone help me, Plz...Much Obliged

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dr. farr

Well-known member
(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

-boyfriend = 7th house = Cancer = Moon
-possible "other girl" as a possible sexual tryst/romantic fling incident regarding the querent's boyfriend = 5th house from the 7th house = Scorpio = Mars as this possible person's significator
-Moon (boyfriend) flows away from Mars (the possible person possibly involved in a tryst or fling with the boyfriend) = - testimony
-no applying aspects are forming between the two significators = - testimony

Testimonies are negative: from this delineation the answer to this horary question is NO...
 

redrobin23

Well-known member
Thanks, Dr. Farr:happy:

You put me at ease. I no longer have to worry "what if." Because I was ready to break up with him over a dream lol...As funny as that may sound I was considering it.

Thanks for all your help:happy:
 

kalypso1979

Well-known member
"-Moon (boyfriend) flows away from Mars (the possible person possibly involved in a tryst or fling with the boyfriend) = - testimony"


sorry , i didn't understand something here...Moon is in 20 degrees of Leo and Mars at 28 degrees of Gemini. Isn't it an applying option between Moon and Mars?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
No, because if looking at an applying aspect (Moon applying toward sextile to Mars) the orb here (8 degrees) is too wide to "count" (unless one is following the super-wide orbs favored by some Traditionalists); the orbs of applying sextile followed by the "Ankara" horary approach, involving the Moon, was considered 6 degrees maximum (and I follow a much narrower orb of 3-4 degrees maximum for a sextile aspect)

But in Ankara horary the flow away from or toward the other significator BY BODY (and not to formation of aspects) is the key consideration (any applying aspect is considered secondary, in making a horary delineation, which is VERY different than the attitude regarding aspects found in standard horary practice) In the reference horary chart the key indication is that the Moon flows away (bodily) from Mars....
 
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Harold

Well-known member
Yes, but if we use the house system the querent used, then the 5th from the 7th - the pregnancy - is ruled by Jupiter. The next aspect to Saturn - the querent - is a trine from Jupiter. The testimonies are positive.....

However, it is a late ascendant, which traditionally means we should set this chart aside as corrupted. There are times when horary questions should not be asked and safeguards are there to give warnings of those times. A late ascendant is one such safeguard.
 

redrobin23

Well-known member
Hi Harold! Your starting to make me worried. Are you saying my boyfriend got another girl pregnant? If so, how does that work. I mean can you explain from the horary chart or will he get someone else pregnant?

What do you mean the ascendant is too late to ask a question? How is my chart "corrupted" and what are "safeguards"?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
While Harold is quite adept at (standard, Traditional) horary and is quite capable of answering your question, I will state that many follow certain "strictures" regarding the reliability of the horary chart: one such (commonly shared) idea (stricture) is that if the ascending degree is less than 3 degrees, or 27 or more degrees, of the rising sign, the chart is "too early" or "too late" to be reliably delineated (some use the term "corrupted", taken from the oldtime literature, for "too early" or "too late")
I do not follow such strictures this far (3 degrees or 27 degress), although I must admit that if the 0 degree of a sign rises in the ascendant, or the 29th degree, then even I will shy away from being confident of the reliability of the horary chart, and will not delineate it. Historically we find this "too early/too late ascendant = a corrupted chart" idea regarding horary, arising with Guido Bonatti (1200's AD)-we find no such concepts or practices among the earlier pioneer horary authors (eg Ibn Ezra, al-Biruni, al-Kindi, etc) nor among the Vedic horary practitioners (horary is known as "prasna" in Vedic astrology)
The oldtime "Ankara" horary method I follow (dating from the times of Ottoman astrology) also followed no such "too early/too late" strictures against judgement: as I stated earlier, and perhaps from some influence of standard horary upon me, I do, but as I said, I limit the "too early" to under 1 degree rising, and the "too late" to 29+ degrees rising, of the ascendant degree.

Regarding my horary delineation of your question, I stand by it 100%...
 

Cancer7

Account Closed
I like to provide some feedback. I'm good at interpreting dreams. I've been studying for the past few years.

I don't believe he got someone pregnant, but he has/is possibly starting a relationship with a new woman.

A baby (pregnancy) represents something new-a new-start of something new.

Do you consider your relationship happy/healthy?
 
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BobZemco

Well-known member
However, it is a late ascendant, which traditionally means we should set this chart aside as corrupted. There are times when horary questions should not be asked and safeguards are there to give warnings of those times. A late ascendant is one such safeguard.

I don't know where you got that, but it is wrong. If you got it from another web-site, then you might want to Google "How to block idiot web-sites that are full of bogus info."

There is no tradition in Horary Astrology that says a late Ascendant corrupts a chart and that it should be set aside.

What do you mean the ascendant is too late to ask a question? How is my chart "corrupted" and what are "safeguards"?

A Late Ascendant is a warning to the astrologer to help with delineation of the chart. It bears two meanings: first, that whatever happened happened --- or, what's done is done, and second you probably know the answer, but you are asking out of desperation, fear or for one of a dozen other reasons that are all related.

Having said that, there is an issue of whether or not your chart is Radical.

If this chart is not Radical, then it is corrupt and cannot be read.

Whether or not a chart is Radical is a function of the Hour Ruler. Just eye-balling the data sheet, it looks like Sun would be the Hour Ruler in this chart, and if so, then this chart may not be Radical.

Notwithstanding if the chart is Radical or not, I will comment -- for the sake of learning and discussion --- but not read your chart.

A few months ago I had a really weird dream that my boyfriend was at a restaurant with another girl and the girl was pregnant by him. I know a dream is not proof enough to say he's cheating on me or not, but it raises my suspicion. Could my dream be trying to tell me something? Or has my paranoia of losing him to another women become an irrational fear? At this point in time, I don't know what to think. All I know is I need clarity from this situation or possibly from him...

Your chart raises several issues related to House Systems and Signs, and also to the assignment of Houses for the Topic.

One way to approach this chart is to treat the Horary as dream interpretation.

For dream interpretation, we use the Angles, and the 9th and 3rd Houses and no others. In fact, if no Planets are in the Angles or the 3rd or 9th, then the dream is false.

The 9th House has Saturn. Saturn symbolizes Fear. The source of that Fear is the Houses Saturn rules, which are the 12th, 1st, and note Aquarius as the 2nd Sign intercepted in the 1st.

The Querent fears for loss, fears for her own self (as it relates to loss), and intercepted Aquarius hints of financial impact from the loss in some way.

There are no Planets in the 10th, 1st, 3rd, or 4th Houses, but Moon and Venus occupy the 7th House.

Since Moon rules the 7th, it signifies another person, and the Moon in general signifies water, liquids, people who work around water or liquids, alcoholic beverages, taverns, bars and saloons, women and quite a few other things.

Venus symbolizes women, plus all things Venutian, which includes public venues such as restaurants and eateries.

That's fairly representative of Querent's dream, but with the majority of Planets in the 5th and 6th Houses, this dream would be false.

From the standpoint of Signs, Virgo is the 9th Sign, with no Planets there; Libra the 10th Sign with none, Capricorn, Pisces and Aries the 1st, 3rd and 4th Signs all empty.

However, there are 3 Planets in the 7th Sign, namely, Sun, Mercury and Jupiter. Sun does signify men, brothers and especially husbands and boyfriends, and both Mercury and Jupiter represent children, but it would be a bit of stretch to relate that to Querent's dream. Not that it matters, since the majority of Planets in the 6th, 8th and 11th Signs show the dream to be false.

Anyway, here is a case where the use of an House System provided a more accurate delineation than using Signs.

The second way to approach this chart is to take the true question as, "Is my boyfriend a father?"

In that case we look to Scorpio, which trines his Cancer Ascendant and is the true House of [his] Children. We find Mars ruling Scorpio in Gemini which is actually his 12th Sign -- no matter how you slice it, Gemini is in aversion to both Capricorn and Cancer.

The 12th Sign/House Gemini is an House of Fear, as well as an House of Loss or Separation and also of those things Hidden.

We note that Moon has separated from Venus by 4° in Leo, indicating something that happened 4 months ago.

We note that Moon/Venus are Succeedent, indicating something that is on-going.

We note that Gemini Mars is seeking to join Jupiter....a significator of Children.....in Cancer -- and eventually will in 5° -- hinting that his girlfriend is 4 months pregnant and his child will come into the world in 5 months.

Note that Mars will change Signs from an House of Ending to an House of Beginning(s). Child birth is separation/loss, at least from the womb (which is hidden -- and note that Scorpio also denotes reproductive organs).

His girlfriend would be his 7th House --- the 1st House of the chart -- making Saturn as her significator as well, and Saturn is in his 5th Sign of Children.

In the chart, the 5th Sign is actually the 4th House of Family, Home etc.

Her 5th Sign/House of Children is Taurus, with ruler Venus where?

In her 8th Sign/House of Childbirth.

This raises the issue of Triplicity Rulers. Ptolemy says Mars is the Triplicity Ruler for Scorpio, but Dorotheus says Venus is the Day Ruler and Mars the Night Ruler with Moon participating.

Anyway, according to Dorotheus, Mars is the 2nd Triplicity Ruler here, and would function as co-significator for the girlfriend. Again, note that Mars is in the 12th Sign/House and rules his House of Children, and she--Saturn--is in his House of Children.

One final thing, it is Sun that rules his girlfriend's 8th House of Childbirth, and Sun is in his House.....Sun is also his secondary significator, and either way, that is not good.

The chart hints she might be someone he's known for a long time, maybe from high school or university, and is probably an old girl-friend. The chart points at something that happened about 4 months ago.

Anyway, those are the possible approaches to delineation, and this is an interesting chart, notwithstanding the fact that the Sun is the Hour Ruler and the chart may not be Radical (because of the issue with Sun, not the Late Ascendant).
 

Harold

Well-known member
I don't know where you got that, but it is wrong. If you got it from another web-site, then you might want to Google "How to block idiot web-sites that are full of bogus info."

There is no tradition in Horary Astrology that says a late Ascendant corrupts a chart and that it should be set aside.

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Like "Christian Astrology" by William Lilly, page 122, If 27, 28 or 29 degrees ascend of any sign, it's no wayes safe to give judgement...

Or "Clavis Astrologiae" by Henry Coley, page 127, If few degrees, viz. the very beginning or the latter end of a sign ascend, 'tis not safe to give judgement...

Or "Vade Mecum" by John Partridge, page 49, First, consider, that if the first or last degrees of a sign ascend, especially in signs of short ascension, the artist ought to defer his judgement...

Or "The Doctrine of Horary Questions" by John Gadbury, page 237, When either the very beginning of a sign ascends, or the very end thereof, it is not safe to give judgement....

Or "Jubar Astrologicum" by William Thrasher, page 78, If the latter degrees of a sign ascend, tis not safe to give judgement...

Or.... but I think that is enough to establish that there certainly WAS a tradition in Horary astrology that a late ascendant corrupts the chart.
 
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Harold

Well-known member
Regarding my horary delineation of your question, I stand by it 100%...

And so you should Dr Farr. I was not saying you were wrong. You gave your interpretation subject to the qualification you always give, which is that you use whole sign houses and a form of astrology which is old but which is not 'traditional'. By contrast, I showed how an interpretation using more traditional rules could give a different outcome. That is reasonable, is it not?

I would comment that your Ottoman Astrology seems very similar to the interrogation type of astrology used by Dorotheus of Sidon in first decades of the current era - particularly with your heavy use of Parts or Lots - so in that sense harks back to a tradition that is very old indeed.

And interesting, I might add....
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
By contrast, I showed how an interpretation using more traditional rules could give a different outcome. That is reasonable, is it not?
....

It certainly is:biggrin:! And I think it great (for our AW members and fans) that you did so!
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I would comment that your Ottoman Astrology seems very similar to the interrogation type of astrology used by Dorotheus of Sidon in first decades of the current era - particularly with your heavy use of Parts or Lots - so in that sense harks back to a tradition that is very old indeed.

And interesting, I might add....

Yes it is, and a good historical observation! The "Ankara" horary approach which I (mostly) follow, was claimed to have originated in Harran (now in southern Turkey), which was a fountainhead during the 8th through 10th centuries especially, for the dissemination of astrological ideas and methods, throughout the Islamic world of that time (there are a few books about Harran, particularly some to be found at the Renaissance astrology website)
The Harranians (such as the famous Thabit ibn Qurra) were hermeticists (not Moslems!) and were particularly influenced by the Hellenist astrological tradition (much more so than other centers of the Islamic transitional era, such as Persia)
So, what I learned about horary came from that original source, and reflects its concepts and practices.
 

RA1

Well-known member
I don't know where you got that, but it is wrong. If you got it from another web-site, then you might want to Google "How to block idiot web-sites that are full of bogus info."

There is no tradition in Horary Astrology that says a late Ascendant corrupts a chart and that it should be set aside.



A Late Ascendant is a warning to the astrologer to help with delineation of the chart. It bears two meanings: first, that whatever happened happened --- or, what's done is done, and second you probably know the answer, but you are asking out of desperation, fear or for one of a dozen other reasons that are all related.


Having said that, there is an issue of whether or not your chart is Radical.

If this chart is not Radical, then it is corrupt and cannot be read.

Whether or not a chart is Radical is a function of the Hour Ruler. Just eye-balling the data sheet, it looks like Sun would be the Hour Ruler in this chart, and if so, then this chart may not be Radical.

Notwithstanding if the chart is Radical or not, I will comment -- for the sake of learning and discussion --- but not read your chart.



Your chart raises several issues related to House Systems and Signs, and also to the assignment of Houses for the Topic.

One way to approach this chart is to treat the Horary as dream interpretation.

For dream interpretation, we use the Angles, and the 9th and 3rd Houses and no others. In fact, if no Planets are in the Angles or the 3rd or 9th, then the dream is false.

The 9th House has Saturn. Saturn symbolizes Fear. The source of that Fear is the Houses Saturn rules, which are the 12th, 1st, and note Aquarius as the 2nd Sign intercepted in the 1st.

The Querent fears for loss, fears for her own self (as it relates to loss), and intercepted Aquarius hints of financial impact from the loss in some way.

There are no Planets in the 10th, 1st, 3rd, or 4th Houses, but Moon and Venus occupy the 7th House.

Since Moon rules the 7th, it signifies another person, and the Moon in general signifies water, liquids, people who work around water or liquids, alcoholic beverages, taverns, bars and saloons, women and quite a few other things.

Venus symbolizes women, plus all things Venutian, which includes public venues such as restaurants and eateries.

That's fairly representative of Querent's dream, but with the majority of Planets in the 5th and 6th Houses, this dream would be false.

From the standpoint of Signs, Virgo is the 9th Sign, with no Planets there; Libra the 10th Sign with none, Capricorn, Pisces and Aries the 1st, 3rd and 4th Signs all empty.

However, there are 3 Planets in the 7th Sign, namely, Sun, Mercury and Jupiter. Sun does signify men, brothers and especially husbands and boyfriends, and both Mercury and Jupiter represent children, but it would be a bit of stretch to relate that to Querent's dream. Not that it matters, since the majority of Planets in the 6th, 8th and 11th Signs show the dream to be false.

Anyway, here is a case where the use of an House System provided a more accurate delineation than using Signs.

The second way to approach this chart is to take the true question as, "Is my boyfriend a father?"

In that case we look to Scorpio, which trines his Cancer Ascendant and is the true House of [his] Children. We find Mars ruling Scorpio in Gemini which is actually his 12th Sign -- no matter how you slice it, Gemini is in aversion to both Capricorn and Cancer.

The 12th Sign/House Gemini is an House of Fear, as well as an House of Loss or Separation and also of those things Hidden.

We note that Moon has separated from Venus by 4° in Leo, indicating something that happened 4 months ago.

We note that Moon/Venus are Succeedent, indicating something that is on-going.

We note that Gemini Mars is seeking to join Jupiter....a significator of Children.....in Cancer -- and eventually will in 5° -- hinting that his girlfriend is 4 months pregnant and his child will come into the world in 5 months.

Note that Mars will change Signs from an House of Ending to an House of Beginning(s). Child birth is separation/loss, at least from the womb (which is hidden -- and note that Scorpio also denotes reproductive organs).

His girlfriend would be his 7th House --- the 1st House of the chart -- making Saturn as her significator as well, and Saturn is in his 5th Sign of Children.

In the chart, the 5th Sign is actually the 4th House of Family, Home etc.

Her 5th Sign/House of Children is Taurus, with ruler Venus where?

In her 8th Sign/House of Childbirth.

This raises the issue of Triplicity Rulers. Ptolemy says Mars is the Triplicity Ruler for Scorpio, but Dorotheus says Venus is the Day Ruler and Mars the Night Ruler with Moon participating.

Anyway, according to Dorotheus, Mars is the 2nd Triplicity Ruler here, and would function as co-significator for the girlfriend. Again, note that Mars is in the 12th Sign/House and rules his House of Children, and she--Saturn--is in his House of Children.

One final thing, it is Sun that rules his girlfriend's 8th House of Childbirth, and Sun is in his House.....Sun is also his secondary significator, and either way, that is not good.

The chart hints she might be someone he's known for a long time, maybe from high school or university, and is probably an old girl-friend. The chart points at something that happened about 4 months ago.

Anyway, those are the possible approaches to delineation, and this is an interesting chart, notwithstanding the fact that the Sun is the Hour Ruler and the chart may not be Radical (because of the issue with Sun, not the Late Ascendant).

I was trying to learn from her chart..and I love your interpretation. Thanks a lot..
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
no, Harold we want HIM (7th house) to make an aspect with his 5th=11th house

Actually, his Moon is in an applying sextile to Mars (ruling his House of Children), and Mars receives Moon by Bound and Face.

You are fond of making absolute statements Bob, but in that golden age of traditional astrology during the 17th century they didn't have any Internet, or websites - they had books, and you might like to try reading a few of them.

I read them a decade ago, what of it?

You're not suggesting that Horary Astrology started in the 17th Century, are you?

I sure hope not, because that would be silly.

Like "Christian Astrology" by William Lilly, page 122, If 27, 28 or 29 degrees ascend of any sign, it's no wayes safe to give judgement...

Or "Clavis Astrologiae" by Henry Coley, page 127, If few degrees, viz. the very beginning or the latter end of a sign ascend, 'tis not safe to give judgement...

Or "Vade Mecum" by John Partridge, page 49, First, consider, that if the first or last degrees of a sign ascend, especially in signs of short ascension, the artist ought to defer his judgement...

Or "The Doctrine of Horary Questions" by John Gadbury, page 237, When either the very beginning of a sign ascends, or the very end thereof, it is not safe to give judgement....

Or "Jubar Astrologicum" by William Thrasher, page 78, If the latter degrees of a sign ascend, tis not safe to give judgement...

Or.... but I think that is enough to establish that there certainly WAS a tradition in Horary astrology that a late ascendant corrupts the chart.

No, there wasn't.

This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum --- shocking that people don't know how to use the "Search" function --- by learned people who have read much older sources than the 17th Century.

The doctrine is a warning about Ascendants in the "early degrees" and the "late degrees" for Electional and Horary Charts.

Since each Quadrant is divided into thirds, with the first third indicating beginnings, the second third showing things static/on-going and the last third being "endings" it should be a "No Brainer" that an House/Sign can be divided into thirds as well.

Naturally, it should not come as a shock that in Electional/Horary the first 10° of an House/Sign show something beginning, the middle 10° something that is in progress, and the last 10° is something coming to a close/ending.

For nearly 2,000 years, no one explicitly defines the exact Degrees: it's simply an Ascendant in the "early degrees" or an Ascendant in the "later degrees."

Lily is believed to be the first to explicitly define the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Degrees as "early" and the 27th, 28th and 29th as late.

That doesn't mean Lily was right.....it's just one of many things Lily botched when he was translating Bonatti's works.....because Bonatti does not explicitly define "early" or "late" Ascendants by Degrees.

Regardless, "not being safe" is not the same thing as "corrupted."

That would mean that you pulled a "Lily" stuck words in someone's mouth that were never said.

What Lily actually said was...

APHORISMES and Considerations for better judging any HORARY QUESTION.

1. See the Question be radicall, or fit to be judged; which is, when the Lord of the Ascendant and hour be of one nature or Triplicity.

2. Be not confident of the Judgment if either the 1st degrees or later of any Signe be ascending; if few degrees ascend, the matter is not yet ripe for judgment; if the later degrees arise, the matter of the Question is elapsed, and it’s probable the Querent hath been tampering with others, or despaires of any successe; however, the Heavens advise you not to meddle with it at that time.


I'm just not seeing the word "corrupted" anywhere in there.

For an early ascendant, Lily says "the matter is not yet ripe for judgment," but if you read the chart, you will discover why that is so.

Likewise with late Ascendants; read the chart and you'll know what happened and why.....which explains why the Ascendant is late.

Note Lily's concern for tampering, meddling, undo influence and interference....that's one of the many reasons we don't do 3rd Party Horary Questions, unless we have written permission from all Parties involved.

Now that you've read the works of all the 17th Century astrologers, when the fascination wears off, you can move back 600 years and study Bonatti, and then you'll be able to start tracing the source of the errors in Horary doctrines from later periods....like the 17th Century.
 

Harold

Well-known member
You're not suggesting that Horary Astrology started in the 17th Century, are you?

I sure hope not, because that would be silly.

No, but you seem to suggest that Horary Astrology stopped in the 13th century, which I think is equally silly.

The fact is that contrary to your statement, "There is no tradition in Horary Astrology that says a late Ascendant corrupts a chart..." 17th century astrologers (in Britain anyway) had a tradition or common understanding that a late ascendant meant the chart was not safe, or corrupted. You may argue about the choice of words, but they both mean the same thing: the chart should not be read.

Of course, you are perfectly free to argue that the great revival of astrology in the 17th century never happened, or that the 17th century never happened, or that the Moon is made of green cheese. But that does not change the facts.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
No, but you seem to suggest that Horary Astrology stopped in the 13th century, which I think is equally silly.

Ah, at least we've arrived at the crux of the matter.

That would be two things actually.

I'm guessing you're not familiar with the meaning of the word "doctrine."

The fact that doctrines may be old, does not render them invalid. A doctrine put forth by Sun Tzu more than 2,500 years ago, was that you always take the high ground.

The French at Dien Bien Phu ignored Sun Tzu and violated the doctrine.

How'd that work out for everyone?

I seem to recall the Viet Minh seizing the high ground, forcing the French army to surrender in disgrace, and then the French withdrawing in disgrace from Indo-China a short time later.

That's why we don't violate doctrines.

The doctrines that were developed thousands of years ago for [Traditional] Astrology and for Horary are as equally sound then as they are today, and there is no need to change them, unless extraordinary compelling evidence arises to do so.

The fact is that contrary to your statement, "There is no tradition in Horary Astrology that says a late Ascendant corrupts a chart..." 17th century astrologers (in Britain anyway) had a tradition or common understanding that a late ascendant meant the chart was not safe,....

Based on what, exactly?

Based on a misreading, a misinterpretation, a misunderstanding and failure to comprehend the texts they were using.

They erred....plain and simple.

In fact, they erred on a great many things.

You may argue about the choice of words, but they both mean the same thing: the chart should not be read.

Then why did Lily read them?

Lily read more than one dozen charts with early Ascendants of 2° and 3°.

And he read a half dozen charts with Ascendants at 26° and 27°.

Again, what does Lily actually say?

2. Be not confident of the Judgment if either the 1st degrees or later of any Signe be ascending; if few degrees ascend, the matter is not yet ripe for judgment; if the later degrees arise, the matter of the Question is elapsed, and it’s probable the Querent hath been tampering with others, or despaires of any successe; however, the Heavens advise you not to meddle with it at that time.

And then Lily reads charts with early and late Ascendants.....yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
If you're afraid to read the chart, then just say, "I can't read your chart because it has an early/late Ascendant, and I am filled with fear that my hair and teeth will fall out and the wang-doodle will grab me and carry me to a far away place and eat me."

That's much more honorable than hiding behind the corrupted translations of idiot 17th Century astrologers.
Of course, you are perfectly free to argue that the great revival of astrology in the 17th century never happened, or that the 17th century never happened, or that the Moon is made of green cheese. But that does not change the facts.

And what are the facts?

The facts are that there was never a doctrine in [Traditional] Astrology that said early and late Ascendants make a chart corrupted and it cannot be read, and the only reason this false doctrine of ascendants at 1°, 2°, 3°, 27°, 28° and 29° exists is because idiots like Lily didn't understand the texts they were reading.

If you have issues with early/late Ascendants, fine, step aside and let the Big People deal with them, but don't tell people their chart is "corrupted" and cannot be read, because that is not true.

And if you doubt, then use the "Search" function because there are dozens of charts here that have early/late Ascendants, they were read, and they were read correctly by various Big People and the outcomes are known.
 
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