Functional benefic or natural malefic!

D

dr. farr

Well-known member
RishiRahul said:
Dear Dr Farr,

I am just trying to get my logic right.

The potential maraka getting more bindus in SAV becomes a strong maraka.... as you said.

ANSWER: YES-HOWEVER, AS PER THE RULES FOR DETERMINING MARAKA, THE DETERMINED MARAKA DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A NATURAL MALEFIC TO BE THE INDICATED MARAKA-A NATURAL BENEFIC CAN JUST AS EASILY BE THE INDICATED MARAKA AS A NATURAL MALEFIC; ONLY IF ALL THE POTENTIAL MARAKA'S ARE ELIMINATED (BY THE MARAKA-DETERMINING PROCESS), DOES THE QUESTION OF BENEFIC/MALEFIC THEN (AND ONLY THEN) ARISE-AND THEN (AND ONLY THEN) THE MOST MALEFIC OR LEAST BENEFIC OF THE REMAINING PLANETS (NOT ALREADY ELIMINATED BY THE MARAKA DETERMINING PROCESS) IS INDICATED AS THE MARAKA PLANET.

If so, it would mean the natural propensity of a planet gets stronger having more SAV bindus.

ANSWER: IT CAN BE SO (ACCORDING TO THE CONTEXT OF THE PROCESS OF INVESTIGATION ONE IS USING THE PLANET WITHIN)

HOWEVER!!!

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT FUNDAMENTALLY THE SARVA BINDU TOTALS DETERMINE IF THE FUNCTIONAL INFLUENCE OF THE PLANET WILL EXPRESS BENEFICALLY OR MALEFICALLY (OR MIXED)-HIGH SARVA BINDUS INDICATE THAT THE ACTUAL NET INFLUENCE (FUNCTIONAL INFLUENCE) OF THE PLANET WILL BE BENEFIC, AND LOW SARVA BINDUS INDICATE THAT THE ACTUAL NET INFLUENCE (FUNCTIONAL INFLUENCE) OF THE PLANET WILL BE MALEFIC

Would this mean: a natural malefic having more SAV bindus will become a stronger malefic?

ANSWER: BASED ON THE EXPLANATION JUST OFFERED, THE ANSWER TO THIS IS NO.
RishiRahul
Click to expand...


Basically we could try to simplify and say the following:
-in determining if a planet will express benefic or malefic trends PER SE, higher sarva bindus = benefic trends (regardless of the natural tendency of the planet) and lower sarva bindus = malefic trends (regardless of the natural tendency of the planet)
-in determinig relative strength/weakness of various processes being used in making certain specific delineations, higher sarva bindu totals = stronger (whether for good or ill) and lower sarva bindu totals = weaker (whether for good or ill)
Example: in the process of determining if the House of Life (ascendant, lagna, 1st house) tends to be stronger than houses potentially challenging to the House of Life (ie, the 8th house and the 12th house), one compares the total sarva bindu count of the 3 houses considered in this particular delineative process: if the lagna has higher sarva bindu totals than either the 8th or the 12th house have, then-within the context of this special particular delineative process-we would say that the House of Life is stronger than its challengers (8th house and 12th)-or, vice versa if the 8th house and 12th house hold higher sarva bindu totals than the lagna: but say that all of these houses each have over 30 bindus, eg:
Lagna 34 bindus
8th 31 bindus
12th 32 bindus
None of these houses is "weak" (having a low bindu count), none is "afflicted" (since they all have more than 30 bindus), none are "malefic", because they all have high bindu totals: so hopefully you can see that, in practically applying ashtakavarga evaluations, we must ALWAYS make our determinations within the CONTEXT of what we are specially looking into, in making such an application.

Ashtakavarga is an advanced evaluative technique-reference to the explanatory literature elaborating this ancient methodology, is strongly advised (the Aditya books mentioned in this thread; also Patel's book on Ashtakavarga, are suggested)
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Crystalpages said:
This nativity has always intrigued me and I never did the ashtakavarga analysis? Maybe you can help me understand?

January 16, 1981
17:35 (checked)
Lucknow, India

Thank you!
Regards,
Rohiniranjan
Click to expand...

I'll check it out and see what I come up with, over the next several days:happy:

(PS: would you prefer that I use sidereal as the matrix, or my usual method, using tropical? Either way you prefer is fine!)
 
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Crystalpages

Crystalpages

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
I'll check it out and see what I come up with, over the next several days:happy:

(PS: would you prefer that I use sidereal as the matrix, or my usual method, using tropical? Either way you prefer is fine!)
Click to expand...

Whatever you would normally use, Dr. Farr. I would be able to adjust the ayanamsha (=0) and look at it from your vantage.

Thanks and no rush at all. Take as much time you wish.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 
RishiRahul

RishiRahul

Well-known member
Crystalpages said:
An example often CLARIFIES way more than a SUPPOSITION? And, then discussed...?

Especially, when STRONG claims get made...?

Love and Light and REALITY

Rohiniranjan
Click to expand...


Of course! but at first should we not try to get the logic right. Isnt tthe logic important here too?

RishiRahul
 
RishiRahul

RishiRahul

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
I'll check it out and see what I come up with, over the next several days:happy:

(PS: would you prefer that I use sidereal as the matrix, or my usual method, using tropical? Either way you prefer is fine!)
Click to expand...


Anything you are comfortable with.

But first, and also if you could clear my head about the question I made in my earlier post, Dr Farr:see quote below
RishiRahul said:
Dear Dr Farr,

I am just trying to get my logic right.

The potential maraka getting more bindus in SAV becomes a strong maraka.... as you said.
If so, it would mean the natural propensity of a planet gets stronger having more SAV bindus.

Would this mean: a natural malefic having more SAV bindus will become a stronger malefic?

Thanks,

RishiRahul
Click to expand...

RishiRahul
 
Crystalpages

Crystalpages

Well-known member
RishiRahul said:
Anything you are comfortable with.

But first, and also if you could clear my head about the question I made in my earlier post, Dr Farr:see quote below


RishiRahul
Click to expand...

Dear Rishi,

I am essentially a very visual person, as you perhaps know. In seeing an example or rather processing the words in an example, my brain learns better and more! :)

Visual-Logic, if you want to call it, but I think that is a trademark of some company and I would shy away from using that! <LOL>

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
 
RishiRahul

RishiRahul

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
Basically we could try to simplify and say the following:
-in determining if a planet will express benefic or malefic trends PER SE, higher sarva bindus = benefic trends (regardless of the natural tendency of the planet) and lower sarva bindus = malefic trends (regardless of the natural tendency of the planet)
-in determinig relative strength/weakness of various processes being used in making certain specific delineations, higher sarva bindu totals = stronger (whether for good or ill) and lower sarva bindu totals = weaker (whether for good or ill)
Example: in the process of determining if the House of Life (ascendant, lagna, 1st house) tends to be stronger than houses potentially challenging to the House of Life (ie, the 8th house and the 12th house), one compares the total sarva bindu count of the 3 houses considered in this particular delineative process: if the lagna has higher sarva bindu totals than either the 8th or the 12th house have, then-within the context of this special particular delineative process-we would say that the House of Life is stronger than its challengers (8th house and 12th)-or, vice versa if the 8th house and 12th house hold higher sarva bindu totals than the lagna: but say that all of these houses each have over 30 bindus, eg:
Lagna 34 bindus
8th 31 bindus
12th 32 bindus
None of these houses is "weak" (having a low bindu count), none is "afflicted" (since they all have more than 30 bindus), none are "malefic", because they all have high bindu totals: so hopefully you can see that, in practically applying ashtakavarga evaluations, we must ALWAYS make our determinations within the CONTEXT of what we are specially looking into, in making such an application.

Ashtakavarga is an advanced evaluative technique-reference to the explanatory literature elaborating this ancient methodology, is strongly advised (the Aditya books mentioned in this thread; also Patel's book on Ashtakavarga, are suggested)
Click to expand...

Thank you Dr. Farr,

I am still a bit confused:sideways:

Do higher sarvabindus increase strength or beneficence?

RishiRahul
 
Crystalpages

Crystalpages

Well-known member
I noticed that the maraca (killer) houses (2nd and 7th, the negation or loss-houses for longevity) have not been considered. Why, if I may ask...?

Rohiniranjan
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
RishiRahul said:
Thank you Dr. Farr,

I am still a bit confused:sideways:

Do higher sarvabindus increase strength or beneficence?

RishiRahul
Click to expand...

Higher sarva bindus make the expression of the qualities of a planet into a functional benefic, lower sarva bindus make the expression of the qualities a planet into a functional malefic.

Strength/weakness however is a GENERAL matter, and depending upon the CONTEXTwe are looking at, stronger MIGHT mean "worse" and weaker MIGHT mean "better"; always keeping this in mind, then, I will state that higher sarva bindus means "stronger" and lower sarva bindus mean "weaker".
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Crystalpages said:
I noticed that the maraca (killer) houses (2nd and 7th, the negation or loss-houses for longevity) have not been considered. Why, if I may ask...?

Rohiniranjan
Click to expand...

Because in the earlier discussions on this thread we were considering only the planets indicated as potential marakas (as deriving from considerations of the 2nd and 7th houses)

In sarvashtakavarga analysis for estimating likely maraka planets:
1st: between the 2nd and 7th houses, find the house with the higher sarva bindu total
2nd: any planet(s) in that house would next be considered
3rd: if no planets are in that house, then the lord of that sign (on that house) would be considered
4th: if planets in (or lord of the sign of) the first selected house are eliminated from consideration, then
5th: the same sequence of evaluation would then be applied to the house (2nd or 7th) which had the lower number of sarva bindus (between them)
6th: finally, if all planets connected with the 2nd and 7th houses have been eliminated from consideration, then whatever planet HAVING THE LOWEST SARVA BINDU COUNT AMONG ALL PLANETS IN THE WHOLE CHART, would be indicated as the maraka planet.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
An illustrative example from my own chart:
-what is the (likely) maraka planet in Dr. Farr's chart?
-2nd house (Libra) has 23 sarva bindus
-no (traditional) planet is in the 2nd house
-7th house (Pisces) has 29 sarva bindus
-Moon and Jupiter are both in Pisces
Method:
-since the 7th house has more sarva bindus than the 2nd house, we start with considering the 7th house
-since the 7th house has planets in it (Moon, Jupiter) we first examine them
-the total sarva bindu average for Jupiter is: 29 (placement in Pisces) + 29 (lord of 7th house Pisces) + 29 (as lord of 4th house Sagittarius which has 29 sarva bindus) so 29+29+29 = 87, divided by 3 factors = 29 total sarva bindu average for Jupiter
-the Moon is also in 7th house Pisces: the total sarva bindu average for the Moon is: 29 (placement in Pisces) + 36 (Moon as lord of Cancer which has 36 sarva bindus), so 29+36 = 65, divided by 2 factors (and fraction rounded off to the next higher sarva bindu number) = 33 total sarva bindu total average for Moon.
-Now, since the 7th house has higher bindus than the 2nd house, we look first for totals of any planets IN the 7th house; we find Jupiter and Moon there; we therefore must compare which has a higher total sarva bindu average between Jupiter and the Moon; Moon has a higher total sarva bindu average than Jupiter...
THEREFORE...
The Moon is the indicated maraka planet in Dr. Farr's chart (by this methodology)
 
Crystalpages

Crystalpages

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
An illustrative example from my own chart:
-what is the (likely) maraka planet in Dr. Farr's chart?
-2nd house (Libra) has 23 sarva bindus
-no (traditional) planet is in the 2nd house
-7th house (Pisces) has 29 sarva bindus
-Moon and Jupiter are both in Pisces
Method:
-since the 7th house has more sarva bindus than the 2nd house, we start with considering the 7th house
-since the 7th house has planets in it (Moon, Jupiter) we first examine them
-the total sarva bindu average for Jupiter is: 29 (placement in Pisces) + 29 (lord of 7th house Pisces) + 29 (as lord of 4th house Sagittarius which has 29 sarva bindus) so 29+29+29 = 87, divided by 3 factors = 29 total sarva bindu average for Jupiter
-the Moon is also in 7th house Pisces: the total sarva bindu average for the Moon is: 29 (placement in Pisces) + 36 (Moon as lord of Cancer which has 36 sarva bindus), so 29+36 = 65, divided by 2 factors (and fraction rounded off to the next higher sarva bindu number) = 33 total sarva bindu total average for Moon.
-Now, since the 7th house has higher bindus than the 2nd house, we look first for totals of any planets IN the 7th house; we find Jupiter and Moon there; we therefore must compare which has a higher total sarva bindu average between Jupiter and the Moon; Moon has a higher total sarva bindu average than Jupiter...
THEREFORE...
The Moon is the indicated maraka planet in Dr. Farr's chart (by this methodology)
Click to expand...

May Richard my recently-discovered, wonderful astro-acquaintance be Shat-Ayu! :) While longevity determination does come up as a significant milestone and curiosity on jyotish fora and the 'gimme a reading' strategies, this is not a reading request or even a veiled reading request from someone, we all have seen and who (like many earlier?) seeking a personal reading and prolonging the BYTEs under the guise of being someone who is an enthusiastic beginner or truly serious or sincere about learning astrology...! I do hope, our moderators here, as OTHERS elsewhere have, SEPARATE these folks and segregate them to a sub-forum as has been done elsewhere...?

This person is already dead, and the birthdata is of good quality since it was recorded by a grandfather with an astrological interest and a caliberated pocket watch, outside the prasuti room, his ear to the door to catch the first moment of cry (independent respiration?)!

24 August 1941
09:14 AM (IST)
Calcutta (Now Kolkata)
India

How, would you pinpoint through AV his killer?

Thanks in advance and kind regards,

Rohiniranjan
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
According to (my understanding of) mainstream jyotish theory, the maraka planet can become "activated" (ie, "kills") under a combination of circumstances involving both transit and current dasha/antardasha indications, involving that planet.
While I have given details above about AK vis-a-vis mainstream maraka doctrine, I myself give little importance to the entire maraka doctrine, prefering instead an eclectic combination of other considerations (taken both from jyotish and Western astrology) for determining potential "critical period" indications and trends (ie, for "maraka" considerations)
But I will make a sarva bindu analysis of the above-listed chart and then see-according to the maraka method I have outlined in earlier posts to this thread-which planet would be the maraka, according to AK applied to the mainstream method for determining this.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Quick look at the reference chart (in tropical and whole sign house): 2nd house is Scorpio, no planets in it; 7th house is Aries, one planet, Mars, in it: thus Mars is:

a) lord of 2nd house
and
b) posited in 7th house
and
c) lord of 7th house

...so "without further ado", Mars is elected as the maraka planet in the reference chart (here, because of the mechanics of the maraka-selecting method involved, AK analysis is not needed to elect the maraka planet, according to the maraka determining method I have been outlining in this thread)
 
RishiRahul

RishiRahul

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
Because in the earlier discussions on this thread we were considering only the planets indicated as potential marakas (as deriving from considerations of the 2nd and 7th houses)

In sarvashtakavarga analysis for estimating likely maraka planets:
1st: between the 2nd and 7th houses, find the house with the higher sarva bindu total
2nd: any planet(s) in that house would next be considered
3rd: if no planets are in that house, then the lord of that sign (on that house) would be considered
4th: if planets in (or lord of the sign of) the first selected house are eliminated from consideration, then
5th: the same sequence of evaluation would then be applied to the house (2nd or 7th) which had the lower number of sarva bindus (between them)
6th: finally, if all planets connected with the 2nd and 7th houses have been eliminated from consideration, then whatever planet HAVING THE LOWEST SARVA BINDU COUNT AMONG ALL PLANETS IN THE WHOLE CHART, would be indicated as the maraka planet.
Click to expand...


Dr Farr,

Please see the quotes highlighted by me in bold.

I am trying to understand you::happy:
Why is it that while choosing between 2nd. & 7th. house for maraka, we choose for higher SAV (first quote highlighted); but then we look for lower SAV also(second quote highlighted)?

Also should we use zero ayanamsa here?

RishiRahul
 
Crystalpages

Crystalpages

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
Quick look at the reference chart (in tropical and whole sign house): 2nd house is Scorpio, no planets in it; 7th house is Aries, one planet, Mars, in it: thus Mars is:

a) lord of 2nd house
and
b) posited in 7th house
and
c) lord of 7th house

...so "without further ado", Mars is elected as the maraka planet in the reference chart (here, because of the mechanics of the maraka-selecting method involved, AK analysis is not needed to elect the maraka planet, according to the maraka determining method I have been outlining in this thread)
Click to expand...

Thanks Sir. So, even though this is an academic/heuristic exercise, would you share how one should attempt the timing? Just a list of techniques you would typically use, such as dashas or some other kinds of techniques? I would not like to have you spend the time in calculations etc as that would not be a reasonable demand on your time.

Thanks,

Rohiniranjan
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Crystalpages said:
Thanks Sir. So, even though this is an academic/heuristic exercise, would you share how one should attempt the timing? Just a list of techniques you would typically use, such as dashas or some other kinds of techniques?

Rohiniranjan
Click to expand...


Examples of potential critical periods (based on Mars being maraka):
-Mars mahadasha+Mars antar+Mars sub sub
-also Mars antar+Mars sub sub during any weak planet's mahadasha
-also Mars transit conjunction the Bhrigu Bindu point, while a Mars maha or a Mars antar or even a Mars sub sub, is operative
-also Mars transit a low (below 25) sarva bindu sign in the D1, while a Mars maha or a Mars antar or a Mars sub sub, is running
-also Mars transiting a sign which in the D30 chart has (in that chart) the highest sarva bindu total, while a Mars maha or a Mars antar or a Mars sub sub, is running
-also Mars becoming the lord of the year in any Varshaphala year (regardless of whether a Mars maha, antar or sub sub is running during that year)
-also Mars transiting a sign in the BAV table of the lord of the ascendant of the D1, which has 3 or fewer BAV bindus, especially so if a Mars maha or antar or sub sub is runing at the same time

...are a few examples which come to mind.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
RishiRahul said:
Dr Farr,

Please see the quotes highlighted by me in bold.

I am trying to understand you::happy:
Why is it that while choosing between 2nd. & 7th. house for maraka, we choose for higher SAV (first quote highlighted)

ANSWER: BECAUSE WE ARE IN THIS PROCESS LOOKING FOR HOUSE POWER (STRENGTH), EVEN THOUGH THE CONTEXT OF THIS (SEARCH FOR MARAKA) IS "MALEFIC" (WE'RE LOOKING FOR THE LIKELIEST "KILLING PLANET")
SO WE WANT TO FIND THE STRONGEST (HIGHEST SARVA BINDU) HOUSE AND THE STRONGEST PLANET AMONG THE MARAKA CANDIDATES, BECAUSE HERE WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING BENEFIC VS MALEFIC BUT RATHER STRENGTH ONLY



; but then we look for lower SAV also(second quote highlighted)?

ANSWER: WE COME TO THIS POINT IF AND ONLY IF WE HAVE GONE THROUGH THE STRENGTH/WEAKNESS BASED MARAKA SELECTION PROCESS AND ALL POTENTIAL CHOICES HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED: IF THIS (RARE OCCURENCE) HAPPENS, THEN ESSENTIALLY WE ABANDON THE MARAKA SELECTION PROCESS, WHICH IS BASED ONLY ON STRENGTH VS WEAKNESS, AND FALL BACK UPON DETERMINATION OF WHETHER A PLANET IS A FUNCTIONAL BENEFIC OR A FUNCTIONAL MALEFIC-STRONG OR WEAK NOW HAS NO BEARING: SO WE LOOK FOR THE MOST FUNCTIONALLY MALEFIC PLANET IN THE CHART, WHICH (ON THE CRITERION OF BENEFIC VS MALEFIC RATHER THAN STRONG VS WEAK) IS THE PLANET WITH THE LOWEST SARVA BINDU TOTAL: AND SO, THIS BECOMES THE SELECTED MARAKA PLANET.

SO REMEMBER, IN ASHTAKAVARGA ANALYSES OF VARIOUS APPLICATIONS, WE HAVE 2 VIEWPOINTS WHICH ARE NOT THE SAME: ONE VIEWPOINT IS CONCERNED WITH INDICATIONS OF BENEFIC/MALEFIC AS TO QUALITY; THE OTHER VIEWPOINT IS CONCERNED WITH INDICATIONS OF STRENGTH VS WEAKNESS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A CERTAIN PROCESS WE ARE APPLYING FOR EVALUATION.

Also should we use zero ayanamsa here?

ANSWER: THAT IS UP TO EACH PERSON'S OPINION REGARDING WHETHER TO USE TROPICAL OR SIDEREAL AS THE BASIC ZODIACAL MATRIX; I'LL MENTION THAT ALL OF THE BOOKS ABOUT ASHTAKAVARGA, ARE FROM JYOTISH PRACTITIONERS USING THE SIDEREAL ZODIAC.

RishiRahul
Click to expand...

Hope these further notes have made this subject a bit clearer:happy:!
 
A

Astroenthusiast

Well-known member
Dr. Farr.


Since any planet posited in a house having high sarva bindus (say 35) is a benefic, so nodes in such houses also become benefic. Can it now be said that they are not afflicting the house they are placed in as also the houses they aspect?

Going on the assumption that rahu is benefic for a native, I looked for its positive karakattawas (since a benefic planet gives good results which must come from positive action or a benefic planet gives good results irrespective of nature of action?), I found strength, research, dignity as the only karakas that I would consider positive.. So as a benefic, Rahu must supply strength (to what, will be determined by other factors present in the chart)..Am I going right?
 
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