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  #101  
Unread 07-13-2019, 11:08 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post


I dunno. The only astrologer I know who uses the outer's doesn't give them rulers.

Personally, again, I dunno.
Haven't studied anything related to the outers.

Any book recommendations?

opinions of one of our moderators tsmall

may be of interest

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post


In my opinion only, for the same reason that so many astrologers have chosen to disregard classical astrology. Modern astrology was basically born in the 20th century and bears little resemblance to traditional astrology. There are those who have no wish to understand astrology any further than the reliance on myth for signification; those who feel that anything old must surely be outdated; and those who are just to lazy to study the classical underpinnings of astrology.

I'm not suggesting they have no meaning. I would suggest that the reason you see traditional astrologers, especially horarists using them is because those astrologers want to be accepted by a broader base.

It does remain that there is no way to shoe-horn or retrofit the outer planets into the dignity scheme, for example, because it exists the way it does for a reason; that reasoning gives the foundations of astrology--and not just for the significations of the planets. Aspect meanings as well as the significations of the houses also rely on the seven traditional planets. They are intertwined in a way that looses signification if broken apart.

If we are to count Pluto as an astrological planet, then is it nocturnal or diurnal? What are it's terms? Decans? Is it masculine or feminine? Where is it exalted? Where does it fall? In which degree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

especially as much of Pluto's signification
as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets
comes from mythology
(which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology)
pure conjucture or speculation
or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.
dr. farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
and
mentions as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

no, I do NOT consider Neptune, Uranus or Pluto to be dispositors ("rulers") of any sign
-but yes I do consider them to be affinitive to certain signs and dissonant with other signs:
for me, if X planet is in, say, Aquarius, then I consider SATURN to be dispositor of that planet,
PLUS I consider Uranus to have a relationship to that planet as well
(because of the affinity of Uranus with Aquarius),
but NOT at the same level (the level of dispositorship) that Saturn has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them.

Mostly they either

1) don't make sense within their own context
or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.

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  #102  
Unread 08-22-2019, 11:43 AM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

What would be a good career path for me next?
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  #103  
Unread 08-22-2019, 12:51 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

I asked on horary but advised to do on natal chart. You can see my chart in beginning of this thread
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  #104  
Unread 08-22-2019, 02:11 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
I asked on horary but advised to do on natal chart. You can see my chart in beginning of this thread
Yes, your career path is not a horary question.
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  #105  
Unread 08-22-2019, 02:44 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Yes, your career path is not a horary question.
Thanks x

Iíve put question on here as my chart is already here x
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  #106  
Unread 08-22-2019, 02:58 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

To make it easier as it might be difficult to find in this thread I have put it up again above 🧐🙂
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  #107  
Unread 08-22-2019, 08:46 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

Just as a general note, with all those irrelevant asteroids the chart is so cluttered it's difficult to weed through and see the important aspects.
The MH, career is cancer ruled by moon. Moon in Leo on north node is a very positive aspect. Trine the Neptune/mercury conjunction in about communication, writing, fantasy.
Neptune is also ruler of the 6th house of work, which means you would find work in writing or communications.
Venus ruler of 2nd and general significator of beauty is in a wide trine with the moon, showing the possibility of earnings from this type of work. Venus also rules the 9th of publications, universities, law.
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  #108  
Unread 08-22-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Just as a general note, with all those irrelevant asteroids the chart is so cluttered it's difficult to weed through and see the important aspects.
The MH, career is cancer ruled by moon. Moon in Leo on north node is a very positive aspect. Trine the Neptune/mercury conjunction in about communication, writing, fantasy.
Neptune is also ruler of the 6th house of work, which means you would find work in writing or communications.
Venus ruler of 2nd and general significator of beauty is in a wide trine with the moon, showing the possibility of earnings from this type of work. Venus also rules the 9th of publications, universities, law.
Appreciate the general note about the chart. I thought it would be relevant but obviously not 🙊 xx

ElanaJ your very good wow! And just wanna day thank you for looking and your insights once again especially with all the lines etc!

You have bought back memories. When i was younger I wanted to be an author and then this thought faded away going through my teens and finding a new group of friends and discovering new things including rebelling etc. So when I left school and college I took a totally different career path which has led me to be independent but Iím now in a place where I want more freedom. I want to work for myself. Thereís a few possibilities but none of those possibilities was writing/comms until you bought it up. 😍😍
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  #109  
Unread 08-22-2019, 09:04 PM
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

https://m.imgur.com/a/YqiTC4U

Hereís a clearer version for you all x
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  #110  
Unread 08-22-2019, 09:27 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

Much easier to see, thank you.
And look what pops out at us now, the Part of Fortune, in the 5th of creativity!
Saturn rules the 5th and it is on your ascendent, of personal expression.
Very nice!
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  #111  
Unread 08-22-2019, 09:29 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Much easier to see, thank you.
And look what pops out at us now, the Part of Fortune, in the 5th of creativity!
Saturn rules the 5th and it is on your ascendent, of personal expression.
Very nice!
Oooh 😍😍 sounds good!!
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  #112  
Unread 08-24-2019, 02:28 PM
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

I my part of fortune is in my south node of aqua. So is gambling stock market winning money good for me and will it happen or is it not as Leo is in 11th hopes and wishes
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  #113  
Unread 08-24-2019, 03:10 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

Gambling, risk taking, would be the 5th, but what other indicators are there in the chart that back this up? Just POF in the 5th isn't enough.
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  #114  
Unread 08-24-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Gambling, risk taking, would be the 5th, but what other indicators are there in the chart that back this up? Just POF in the 5th isn't enough.
Itís sextile Pallas in 7th and trine Pluto in first
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  #115  
Unread 08-24-2019, 03:57 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Plus south node is close to pof
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  #116  
Unread 08-24-2019, 03:59 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Plus south node is close to pof
If you have south moon's node on POF in the 5th you certainly don't want to get involved in gambling.
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  #117  
Unread 08-24-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
If you have south moon's node on POF in the 5th you certainly don't want to get involved in gambling.
Ok great lol so what is my pof doing for me in aqua. I was thinking it was good then when I saw it was near my SN I thought well whatís the point of this then. Is the south node where we shouldnít be so should I not take advantage of pof somehow. Am I making sense?
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  #118  
Unread 08-24-2019, 07:38 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

South node is what you carry on from the past.
Maybe you were relying too much on luck in the past?
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  #119  
Unread 08-24-2019, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
South node is what you carry on from the past.
Maybe you were relying too much on luck in the past?
Iíve been lucky in the past or perceived to be lucky but then again I did work my butt off to get there so maybe it wasnít luck.
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  #120  
Unread 08-24-2019, 11:21 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

I have put another chart up. This one has all the liliths. I have learnt on here there is more than one. I have now found the correct chart to show it.
I have looked online but no real interpretations and who better to ask than this astrology community

So please take a look and give me your insights to what all these Liliths mean.

Thank You xx

Last edited by Hkk; 08-24-2019 at 11:23 PM.
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  #121  
Unread 08-25-2019, 12:12 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Pluto is exactly on the 2nd cusp, so what we are really talking about is your sense of self esteem, how you value yourself, your self worth. This is challenged by the mars square, the spark that sets it off is other people.
The midpoint between the pluto and mars is exactly loving Venus, ruler of your ascendent. This is what you should use to defuse and re-mold the negative energy. Love and affection, and in the 3rd, you can do it through words.
Sextile the Saturn and Jupiter on ascendent, which is the filter through which it all passes to reach the world outside of you, Saturn being discipline and Jupiter being benevolence.
You have it in you to do this, you just have to tap into it, and you will flip the situation.
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  #122  
Unread 08-25-2019, 12:15 AM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Pluto is exactly on the 2nd cusp, so what we are really talking about is your sense of self esteem, how you value yourself, your self worth. This is challenged by the mars square, the spark that sets it off is other people.
The midpoint between the pluto and mars is exactly loving Venus, ruler of your ascendent. This is what you should use to defuse and re-mold the negative energy. Love and affection, and in the 3rd, you can do it through words.
Sextile the Saturn and Jupiter on ascendent, which is the filter through which it all passes to reach the world outside of you, Saturn being discipline and Jupiter being benevolence.
You have it in you to do this, you just have to tap into it, and you will flip the situation.
Guardian angel you are EJ 🥰😍😍😍😍 thank you xx
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  #123  
Unread 09-02-2019, 12:21 AM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Now Iím researching and learning more on here. While researching I have come across draconic and sidereal charts.

Iím shocked it changed my signs so Iím draconic my sun is Leo and my asc is Taurus.
A draconic chart takes the north node and moves it to 0 Aries, and then adjusts the rest of the chart accordingly. Unless your north node is at or near 0 Aries to begin with, that will result in drastically different placements. Supposedly, the draconic chart is all about your karmic self. I don't work with it, personally. I think we really have enough information in the natal. That's complex enough.

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Sidereal my sun is in sag and asc in Virgo like Vedic chart.
That's because Vedic astrology is sidereal. Western astrology is tropical, but there's an offshoot branch of astrology called Western sidereal, which hybridizes Western sign meanings and interpretation methods with the Vedic way of determining which sections of the sky are called what.

Sidereal and tropical astrology are really different languages. Vedic astrology is as different from Western as English is from German. Western sidereal is like a pidgin of both languages.

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
So who are we really with all these charts. Which is true to us?
Arguably, all of them. But they shouldn't be interpreted as having the same meanings.

Change a Western chart to Vedic, or vice versa, and the sign and house for most placements change. But the meanings of each sign and house are somewhat different. In the end, if you went to both a Western astrologer and a Vedic astrologer and asked them the same question, and gave them the same birth information, you would get similar answers from both.

Also keep in mind that the idea of equating sun sign with personality is thoroughly Western, and strictly modern at that. It's not done in traditional astrology. In Vedic astrology, the main reference point is either the moon or the ascendant, depending on which branch of Vedic. Kind of like where in your body your personality resides: some cultures say the brain, some say the heart, some say the liver, some say the lower belly. Different astrological cultures have different views of where in the chart "you" reside.
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I also answer natal chart-based questions in its Ask the Astrologer feature. Submissions very welcome there!
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  #124  
Unread 09-02-2019, 12:29 AM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
A draconic chart takes the north node and moves it to 0 Aries, and then adjusts the rest of the chart accordingly. Unless your north node is at or near 0 Aries to begin with, that will result in drastically different placements. Supposedly, the draconic chart is all about your karmic self. I don't work with it, personally. I think we really have enough information in the natal. That's complex enough.

That's because Vedic astrology is sidereal. Western astrology is tropical, but there's an offshoot branch of astrology called Western sidereal, which hybridizes Western sign meanings and interpretation methods with the Vedic way of determining which sections of the sky are called what.

Sidereal and tropical astrology are really different languages. Vedic astrology is as different from Western as English is from German. Western sidereal is like a pidgin of both languages.

Arguably, all of them. But they shouldn't be interpreted as having the same meanings.

Change a Western chart to Vedic, or vice versa, and the sign and house for most placements change. But the meanings of each sign and house are somewhat different. In the end, if you went to both a Western astrologer and a Vedic astrologer and asked them the same question, and gave them the same birth information, you would get similar answers from both.

Also keep in mind that the idea of equating sun sign with personality is thoroughly Western, and strictly modern at that. It's not done in traditional astrology. In Vedic astrology, the main reference point is either the moon or the ascendant, depending on which branch of Vedic. Kind of like where in your body your personality resides: some cultures say the brain, some say the heart, some say the liver, some say the lower belly. Different astrological cultures have different views of where in the chart "you" reside.
Thank you O. When u say karmic do you mean like our nodes karmic I.e south where we were north where we are going?

I understand clearly now you have explained. One thing I do t get us when you say if for example I asked a question and for both west and east I would get the same answer. So Iím thinking well I get the same answer so it must be the same do you know what I mean?
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  #125  
Unread 09-02-2019, 01:31 AM
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

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Thank you O. When u say karmic do you mean like our nodes karmic I.e south where we were north where we are going?
All I know is that the draconic chart is a karmic astrology thing. I've never studied it.

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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
I understand clearly now you have explained. One thing I do t get us when you say if for example I asked a question and for both west and east I would get the same answer. So Iím thinking well I get the same answer so it must be the same do you know what I mean?
The meaning is the same, but the words are not. Your ascendant is Virgo in Vedic but Libra in Western. For them to be the same, the meaning of Virgo would have to be exactly the same as the meaning of Libra. In reality, the meanings assigned to the signs differ slightly between Western and Vedic astrology. So do the meanings assigned the the houses. When a Western astrologer and a Vedic astrologer interpret the whole chart, they'll get similar answers, but they arrive at those answers in somewhat different ways.

Suppose you see a bag labeled, "Gift." You would probably take that to mean there's a present for someone in that bag. Or maybe it's a bag of small presents. What else could possibly be in a bag labeled "Gift"? (Imagine that this is a plain bag, with no other words or symbols or drawings on it.)

But then, suppose you found out that the person who labeled the bag does not speak, read, or write English. Their language is German. There's poison in that bag.

Same word, very different meanings.

But if you and the German speaker both saw a traditionally wrapped present, you would both interpret it as the same thing. You might call it a gift, and they would call it Geschenk, so the words wouldn't be the same, but you would both know what it was. And suppose you had a visitor from some other culture where wrapped gifts are not a thing at all, and they asked both of you what it was. You would both be able to tell them (assuming they understood you), and you would both tell them the same thing.
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I also answer natal chart-based questions in its Ask the Astrologer feature. Submissions very welcome there!
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