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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #101  
Unread 05-21-2019, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
19th Law, when are you going to take off the training wheels of simplistic sun-sign astrology? Your continuing exclusive emphasis on sun signs is a lot of the reason why you're having trouble interpreting actual human beings.
But... It is true that star signs have their own traits.

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  #102  
Unread 05-21-2019, 10:34 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Sun signs have their own traits, but if we leave it at that, we've fundamentally got the equivalent of a pop magazine column, or Linda Goodman's Sun Signs.

If the 19th Law knows a sun Leo who seems to be vindictive-- which is not a characteristic trait of a Leo sun-- astrologers don't leave it at that, thinking that astrology got it wrong. We look to see what else is going on in said Leo's horoscope.

Maybe it's the moon or a stellium in Scorpio square sun, for example; or a troubled Mars or Pluto.

There just aren't any Astrology Lite shortcuts to an astrological character analysis, no matter how badly he wants there to be or believes that there should be.
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Last edited by waybread; 05-21-2019 at 10:36 PM.
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  #103  
Unread 05-21-2019, 11:21 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Actually the Mesopotamians who invented astrology started out with very different constellations than the ones we use now; and they used constellations well off the ecliptic. They developed the nature of their gods long before assigning these gods to heavenly bodies. Today tropical astrologers use signs that no longer overlap well with the constellations for which they were named. Even sidereal signs over lap poorly with constellations that are significantly bigger or smaller than 30 degrees. See: Nicholas Campion's A History of Western Astrology, Gavin White's Babylonian Star Lore and Bernadette Brady's YouTube lectures on what she calls "visual astrology."

Archaeologists think that decorations on the walls of the caves of Lascaux depict the constellation Taurus, the Pleiades, and other fixed stars-- during the Paleolithic. There was no astrology back then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/871930.stm
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  #104  
Unread 05-21-2019, 11:37 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post


But... It is true that star signs have their own traits.
'…..man did not see pictures in the night skies
and then circumscribe the constellations
according to artistic vision.
Instead
man noted that people born when certain groupings of stars were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited certain characteristics in common

These characteristics seemed animalistic,
bird like,
aquatic
heroic
or ultra humanistic.

Once this correlation was made,
the symbolic mind of man
assigned SHAPE to groupings of stars
for easy reference.

Some shapes were earthly, human

some creative fantasies

but each shape or constellation
represented symbolically
THE OBSERVED EFFECTS OF THAT GROUP OF STARS
when manifested in the life of a person...' Robert Huntz Granite
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  #105  
Unread 05-22-2019, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Sun signs have their own traits, but if we leave it at that, we've fundamentally got the equivalent of a pop magazine column, or Linda Goodman's Sun Signs.

If the 19th Law knows a sun Leo who seems to be vindictive-- which is not a characteristic trait of a Leo sun-- astrologers don't leave it at that, thinking that astrology got it wrong. We look to see what else is going on in said Leo's horoscope.

Maybe it's the moon or a stellium in Scorpio square sun, for example; or a troubled Mars or Pluto.

There just aren't any Astrology Lite shortcuts to an astrological character analysis, no matter how badly he wants there to be or believes that there should be.
This is true. Even though a few posts back I did have a grudge against Leo's, there would definitely have to be other aspects at play to make them difficult. And yes the one's I had trouble with had squares to Taurus or Scorpio or opposition.
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  #106  
Unread 05-22-2019, 10:27 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

All,

I've just deleted several off topic posts. Please stick to the topic of this thread. If you want to discuss the overall history of astrology, start a new thread for that.

Back on topic,
Osamenor
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  #107  
Unread 05-23-2019, 03:48 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

I think my latest material on the problems of the OP's simple sun-sign astrology also got deleted.

Basically (to repeat), because the sidereal and tropical zodiacs are now roughly 24 or 27 degrees different, depending on the sidereal system selected, that nasty vindictive tropical sun-Leo is a sidereal sun-Cancer.

That, and because house systems often give different results, aspects are important to look at because the geometrical relationship between planets remains the same, regardless. But we cannot read aspects transparently off of sun signs.

Any sun-Leo displaying non-Leo traits should be looked at for aspects to the sun and other prominent planets in the chart.
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  #108  
Unread 05-23-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think my latest material on the problems of the OP's simple sun-sign astrology also got deleted.

Basically (to repeat), because the sidereal and tropical zodiacs are now roughly 24 or 27 degrees different, depending on the sidereal system selected, that nasty vindictive tropical sun-Leo is a sidereal sun-Cancer.

That, and because house systems often give different results, aspects are important to look at because the geometrical relationship between planets remains the same, regardless. But we cannot read aspects transparently off of sun signs.

Any sun-Leo displaying non-Leo traits should be looked at for aspects to the sun and other prominent planets in the chart.
This sounds about right. I've been experiencing t Pluto square natal libra sun and had Uranus in opposition and I must say it has turned me into a dark bitter person. Nothing like the qualities of my social loving libra.
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  #109  
Unread 05-23-2019, 08:13 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Abby, I think you've raised another good point, about how transits and life experience can push a normally true-to-type sun sign into displaying other qualities.

Generally these difficult outer transits run a diagnostic on our lives. Most people find Pluto and Uranus hard to handle, but their hard transits let us know how and why we need to incorporate more of their positive features into our lives.

Perhaps Mrs. Normally Nice is ready for more independence (Uranus) or needs to acknowledge her own "inner Pluto"-- the one who can also be a bully, but who can also face the bad things that life offers and come back more grounded and stronger for it. Probably you're sick and tired of being so accommodating and playing by other people's rules. The transiting planets' houses indicate the life-housekeeping needed.

With Uranus in early Taurus, my Leo moon/Aquarian Mercury are definitely engaged in the process of learning where in life I need more independence.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #110  
Unread 05-24-2019, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Abby, I think you've raised another good point, about how transits and life experience can push a normally true-to-type sun sign into displaying other qualities.

Generally these difficult outer transits run a diagnostic on our lives. Most people find Pluto and Uranus hard to handle, but their hard transits let us know how and why we need to incorporate more of their positive features into our lives.

Perhaps Mrs. Normally Nice is ready for more independence (Uranus) or needs to acknowledge her own "inner Pluto"-- the one who can also be a bully, but who can also face the bad things that life offers and come back more grounded and stronger for it. Probably you're sick and tired of being so accommodating and playing by other people's rules. The transiting planets' houses indicate the life-housekeeping needed.

With Uranus in early Taurus, my Leo moon/Aquarian Mercury are definitely engaged in the process of learning where in life I need more independence.
That's one way of looking at it. For me I found I lost my identity. My true self. I put too much thought, focus and energy on ppl who didn't matter. But I did want this in my life. Most of my life I've wanted to learn how to protect myself and maintain my true self amongst the most difficult ppl. After all, didn't Nelson Mandela do that in prison? Prison is 90% filled with psychopaths who beat you up if you do so much as make eye contact. Or some of them junk punch you if you're trailing behind. So as part of my journey, I unexpectedly came across my mother in law - the psychopath with NPD. Even though I learnt about the disorder and the strategies to overcome their abuse, there's no way I can maintain my peace and love and happiness in that cold hateful abusive controlling environment. I just found that she had to many strategies to punish my happiness. She was too focused 24/7 on destroying me that I couldn't live a healthy normal life. Her way of thinking and operating deeply disturbed me. So yes it was a learning curve. Maybe one day I'll be able to be like these spiritual gurus who can be around an abuser and not get abused and maintain their joyous existence, but I haven't gotten there yet.

But yeah, my experience with the hard aspects is to be 'ok' with other ppl rejecting and being harmful. When that occurs I need to make more of an effort to tune into my natal planets and maintain my qualities in the heat of opposition and disagreements. I do tend to lose myself when there's opposition. So I'm working on it. Libra can't handle extreme disagreements. Another thing I'm doing is emotional deposits to myself, and writing down where my energy is going into do I don't spend too much time in one area. Eg: I was so focused on mother in law and kids that I dropped my friends and health and work. If I write down on a scale of one to ten, how much energy I'm putting into each category, I'll be more fulfilled. I think everyone would benefit from this. If you think about it. Slow planets enter certain houses in our charts, putting focus on that area. That means we need to make more of an effort to keep those other houses alive and active.

Last edited by Abby83; 05-24-2019 at 12:24 AM.
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  #111  
Unread 05-25-2019, 08:38 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Sun signs have their own traits, but if we leave it at that, we've fundamentally got the equivalent of a pop magazine column, or Linda Goodman's Sun Signs.

If the 19th Law knows a sun Leo who seems to be vindictive-- which is not a characteristic trait of a Leo sun-- astrologers don't leave it at that, thinking that astrology got it wrong. We look to see what else is going on in said Leo's horoscope.

Maybe it's the moon or a stellium in Scorpio square sun, for example; or a troubled Mars or Pluto.

There just aren't any Astrology Lite shortcuts to an astrological character analysis, no matter how badly he wants there to be or believes that there should be.
But this is also assuming it all comes down to mostly the sign, hence my very problem. To say that a Leo heavy chart cannot be vindictive is asinine, perhaps I am not the one who needs to do the research here.
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  #112  
Unread 05-25-2019, 10:02 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Don't misread what I post, 19th Law, and there is no point in your getting petulant. I know a lot more astrology than you do. (19th law: know who you're dealing with.) That's a simple fact.

There is a lot of garbage out there on social media when you get a bunch of newbies talking about sun signs as though they were separate tribes or ethnic groups. "Beginner" isn't measured by years of participation in astrology, but by what people actually know. I suggest you start with articles on reputable websites. Better yet, read books. For beginners like you I recommend Stephen Forrest, The Inner Sky; and Robert Hand, Planets in Youth.

Then you need people's actual birth dates and locations. Without an accurate birth time, you have to construct a chart without houses. This is limiting but not terminal. You can still do a lot. Then you have to know the other planets' core meanings, as well as their interactions.

Ponder: in what astronomical way could signs be objectively real?

Take a moment, please, to ponder that a billion Hindus (and some westerners) have perfect faith in sidereal astrology. (Sidereal means fixed star-based.) Due to precession their degree points and the western tropical (sun-based) now vary by 24 to 27 degrees, depending on the sidereal system used. Precession works backwards, so a planet at, say, 15 degrees tropical Leo would be at something like 18 degrees tropical Cancer.

This means that most western tropical sun Leos are actual sidereal sun Cancers. And it's not like one zodiac is "right" and the other one is "wrong." They're just different.

The signs are not objectively real. They were named for constellations. The sidereal signs still roughly overlap the constellations, having moved with them. The tropical (western) signs might barely touch them today. The tropical signs we use in the West are just 30-degree pie-sectors of portions of the sky, pegged to solstices and equinoxes.

So we all need a bit of humility in making too much out of simple signs.

For my money, aspects to personal planets, including the sun, are the most important part of a horoscope. The geometrical relationship of planets in a horoscope remains constant independently of signs and houses.

I suggest you get Mr. Vindictive Leo's birth date and location, input the birth time as "unknown" and then get to work on his actual chart.

[You can thank me later for this free tutorial, after you've achieved your goal of dominating everybody else.]
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #113  
Unread 05-25-2019, 11:05 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

19th law:

Let's back up a bit, because the problems with simplistic sun-sign astrology for personality analysis were baked into it from the beginning.

Babylonian astrology was fixed-star and constellation based until around 500 BCE, when they discovered that it was easier to predict eclipses with pre-set 30-degree sectors of the 360 degree zodiac. Eclipses were important omens for them. Signs didn't start out with ordinary people's personality traits: an idea that had little meaning to ancient people. However, constellations and planets picked up the traits of gods and supernatural creatures for whom they were named.

Then the Hellenist Aristotelians got into the act, and divided the signs into Aristotle's 4 elements: earth, air, fire, and water.

So astrology starts out with a lot of ideas that have nothing to do with human personalities. In many ways, personality analysis is a modern concern.

When astrologers wanted to look more closely at ordinary people, the gods' traits and the 4 elements were much of what they had in their repertory to deal with.

A modern astrologer whose books you might enjoy reading is Stephen Arroyo. His book Astrology, Psychology and the Four Elements is still in print. He asked an important question: what is very real for people with a predominant element?

Basically Leo, along with Sagittarius and Aries, is a fire sign. Will and enthusiasm are very real-- and important..

For predominantly earth sign people (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn) material, practical things are very real.

For air-dominant people (Gemini, Aquarius, Libra) ideas are very real.

To water-dominant people (Pisces, Cancer, Scorpio) feelings are very real.

You can go a little ways with these two principles just knowing someone's sun-sign. However, if someone has one planet (sun) in Leo, and just about everything else in Cancer and Scorpio, water (not fire) is their predominant element. This can make for a moody lion.

Then each sign has a modality or quality: cardinal (Aries, Cancer, Libra, Capricorn.) Fixed (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius) or mutable (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, Pisces.)

Cardinal: initiative-taking
Fixed: persistent
Mutable: flexible, adaptable.

So put 'em together, and we see Leo as the fixed fire sign. Think: "persistent enthusiasm" or "stubborn will." [Hint: key words are very helpful in astrology.]

From Robert Hand, Planets in Youth, p. 33: "If you give a fire child the feeling that adults always use power arbitrarily and without rules, then the child will later use his power in the same way, often against the kinds of people who seemed arbitrary in the past."

Does this ring a bell? I wouldn't describe Leo as vindictive, a toxic quality I associate more with emotionally-driven Scorpio, but someone with a "fixed will" might seem like the elephant who never forgets. He may be acting out of an unstable or even traumatic childhood where authority figures did what they felt like. If so, that's what the young Leo learns to model in a leadership role.

Of course, to use all of this astro-information properly, we need to see the entire composition of the horoscope.

With a dual element emphasis, we might get "enthusiasm for ideas" (fire + air) or a tendency to intellectualize one's feelings (air + water.)

A shortage of one element may lead to a form of compensation (the low-water, air-dominant person who observes others' feelings without the ability to emphasize) and this person will emphasize the predominant element/s, even if it's not the sun-sign.

However, what Robert Hand didn't mention was that if a sun-Leo had a troubled childhood, or became a vindictive adult, you should be able to see this in the chart. For one's own childhood, we look to the 4th house, and then to planets symbolizing Mom and Dad. For vindictiveness I'd look to Scorpio and its rulers Mars (traditional) and Pluto (modern.) Chances are, they're not in the happy pile, if you're seeing squares and oppositions. (With conjunctions, it depends on the planets.)

To really know whom you're dealing with, 19th Law, you'd want to avoid simplistic beginner-level short-cuts. Real human beings are more complex.

Aren't you more complex, yourself?
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Last edited by waybread; 05-25-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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  #114  
Unread 05-25-2019, 11:20 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.



Planeary ruler of Leo is the Sun



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The Earth with all its inhabitants are under constant causal planetary influence, this is made more easily perceptible with the Sun due its size and the obviousness of its seasonal changes, for the closer it approaches the zenith, the more it affects us with heat and dryness, which in turn influences the smallest particles of matter and seed.
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In the case of the Sun, its obvious effluence is heat and dryness. The tropical zodiac also has observable nature through the four seasons, and the four elements that attend them. The Moon and the five planets have other observed emanations (of heat, moisture, dryness and cold) traditionally, derived mainly from rationalistic conjecture and experience.
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Unread 06-01-2019, 09:13 PM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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Don't misread what I post, 19th Law, and there is no point in your getting petulant. I know a lot more astrology than you do. (19th law: know who you're dealing with.) That's a simple fact.
Without making it personal and attacking you, I question your knowledge on astrology and wonder how much of it is rooted in heavy bias, once again, walking on egg-shells here and not attacking you but your personal knowledge of astrology.

Leo = Fixed Fire Sign. Fixed signs generally hold grudges, I'd say due to Leo being ruled by pride, it would hold a grudge.

Put the 19th Law into action Waybread, please anger a prideful man, I'll back off if he doesn't take revenge and forgives you after a year.
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Unread 06-02-2019, 04:43 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Well, thank God I'm an Aquarian. I don't take most of this stuff personally. I'm a 70-year old retired academic (wife, mother, and grandmother.) So I don't have to prove anything and can pretty much say what I like.

Since you've implied that I am biased and don't know much astrology, here are my credentials.

During my 31-year career (not counting grad school) I worked as a tenured faculty member at 3 major universities. These are big organizations, and very hierarchical. So I learned an awful lot about departmental and campus-wide politics; and the differences between a functional and dysfunctional department. The former have a teamwork model, whereas the latter are individual ego-driven.

I can think of one departmental colleague early on in my career who either read the 48 laws or their earlier moral equivalent. Nobody enjoyed working with him and he was eventually transferred to another department.

My astro-situation (as mentioned previously) is that I began studying astrology around 1990. This was during a kind of dark night of the soul, when I thought astrology could help me learn who I am and why I am on the planet. I never did satisfactorily answer these questions, (possibly thanks to Neptune in the first house,) but I learned a lot of astrology in the process. This was mostly modern natal chart reading, but several years ago I decided to study traditional western and horary astrology. I also have a big interest in the history of ancient astrology.

Since I got on-line in 2007 I've read thousands of charts for people here and at Astrodienst. For the past year or so I've averaged one incoming PM request for a chart reading per week.

I haven't counted lately, but conservatively I have a few hundred books and articles in my personal astrology library; not counting stuff to be gleaned on-line in an ad hoc way.

If all of the above make me "biased" or lacking in a "personal knowledge of astrology," all I can say is, "Watch me" on "read my chart" and informational threads, and compare my astrological credentials and life experience with your own.

This isn't to say I'm invariably correct, just that I'm not getting my chops on some kind of social media thread for newbies.

I don't think "grudge" is le mot juste for Leo; keeping in mind that a sun-Leo may have all her other planets in different signs, a Scorpio Pluto square sun, or what-not.

If you look up "grudge" in the dictionary, it involves longstanding ill-will, "resentment, and dislike. A "grudge match" isn't a spur-of-the-moment athletic event, but involves some kind of defeat that has festered for a long time. Anger is to a quick cut as a grudge is to a festering infection.

If you look up the astrological rulers of "ill will, resentment, dislike" or the cognates you can find listed you will often find Saturn in the mix. A good book for this purpose is Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book. According to him, grudges are ruled by Saturn.

Astrologically, it's very helpful to use words precisely and then to consider what planet, sign, or house actually rules them.

The sun actually rules concepts like loyalty, the king, the father, gold, one's identity or sense of self.

When you start deconstructing basic concepts in a grammatical way, you can usually get a better read on what is motivating someone. As I've been repeating, this takes us beyond the sun sign in most cases.

Does one's boss hold a grudge-- meaning ill-will over a long period of time? OK, let's look at Saturn or maybe Mars in his chart. Throw in Pluto. Are they related through aspects?

Or maybe Mr. Leo has a big sensitive Cancer moon (emotional nature.)

Each planet and sign has a particular relationship to time, as well. Saturn rules the past and its sign of Capricorn is past-oriented. Leo is more present-oriented.

It's not quite astrological to say "Leo is ruled by pride." Rather, "Pride is ruled by the sun and Jupiter." Then we can add-in those charming personality quirks related to the constellations for which the signs were named 2000 years ago.

OK, was someone's pride injured?

I won't get into further details unless it seems like we're on the same page at this point. But hopefully you get what I'm driving at.

Which is to take off the astrological sun-sign training wheels.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-02-2019 at 04:49 AM.
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  #117  
Unread 06-02-2019, 04:52 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

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....

Put the 19th Law into action Waybread, please anger a prideful man, I'll back off if he doesn't take revenge and forgives you after a year.
Oh, sure. My husband of 22 years has a lot of pride. Occasionally he gets angry at me. We kiss and make up.

Apparently nobody in your universe ever apologizes, tries to make due, forgives based on long-term experience with a trusted friend, and so on.

It's kind of chilly in your universe, no?
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 06-02-2019, 04:29 PM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

So that explains why you tend to portray Leos as a soft, forgiving, and pushover of a sign that is naive, your sign is literally the exact opposite of Leo. Aquarians have always had it out for Leos for some reason, it seems like the sign domiciled by the sun has been targeted more than any in modern astrology which is trying to make it seem soft and naive.

It might be the case with your husband, well that and divorce means losing half of your stuff, but with most men of great pride I don't know where you get the impression they will forgive so easily. You say the sun rules the throne, well spit on a king and talk about his family in a bad light in ancient times, see how far that takes you.

I understand that you are desperately trying to promote Scorpios as this most powerful vengeful deliverer of karma but to most who have common knowledge of astrology, it isn't working too well. I'd say that an angered Leo is far more vicious with the revenge due to a hurt pride while an angered Scorpio truly is all bark no bite.
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  #119  
Unread 06-03-2019, 02:23 AM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Sort of related to the topic but I was amazed to find how both Trump and Hillary had a Leo Mars, did not know Mars was in a good position in this sign but somehow it did make them successful as politicians.
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  #120  
Unread 06-07-2019, 01:41 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Leo Sun, Merc, Venus, and Jupiter here...all tightly conjunct

You know what's funny? Ppl never get Leo energy from me. My friend, who's also into astrology, is like "Your Scorpio rising is really strong, it's a bit irritating sometimes" LOL.

Whenever I'm feeling Scorpionic, I'm - quiet, brooding over something that happened 2 weeks ago, overly sensitive, snappy and very aloof. And if the Moon is transiting in water sign? I'm touchy about everything!

Like Lion o ness, I feel like my Leo energy comes out strongly in romantic relationships. I'm a hopeless romantic Lol. I'm the type that'll cry if my partner does something really cute and cheesy for me and give em huges/kisses after. Corny I know 😩
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Unread 06-07-2019, 05:07 AM
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Re: Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
So that explains why you tend to portray Leos as a soft, forgiving, and pushover of a sign that is naive, your sign is literally the exact opposite of Leo. Aquarians have always had it out for Leos for some reason, it seems like the sign domiciled by the sun has been targeted more than any in modern astrology which is trying to make it seem soft and naive.
Here is precisely the problem with your simplistic sun-sign astrology. My moon and Pluto are in Leo. I like Leo as a sign. I have no problem with any signs. Scorpio is probably the one I relate to the least, but I'm not tribal about it.

You cannot read charts for people if you have strong biases for or against a simple sign. When I read charts for people I try to be helpful to them-- as human beings, not as signs. You can't read charts with the mentality you repeatedly express on this forum.

I didn't portray Leo as you state. I imagine I was too nuanced for you.

Quote:
It might be the case with your husband, well that and divorce means losing half of your stuff, but with most men of great pride I don't know where you get the impression they will forgive so easily. You say the sun rules the throne, well spit on a king and talk about his family in a bad light in ancient times, see how far that takes you.
This is laughable. I have my own income and he has his. We have about 3 significant joint assets, and that's it. Our marriage is pretty egalitarian and has been going on for over 20 years. [I might mention that our suns are trined to the degree, we have great "reverse" Venus-Mars aspects, and our nodal axes are conjunct and reversed. But you'd have to learn synastry to appreciate this.]

I think you're the one who actually doesn't understand "men" very well. I worked in a male-oriented field for over 30 years (not counting grad school.) I was often the only woman in my department, or one of two. I have been blessed with male friends and a wonderful adult son. You're still too young to have seen much of human nature in all of its diversity.

Quote:
I understand that you are desperately trying to promote Scorpios as this most powerful vengeful deliverer of karma but to most who have common knowledge of astrology, it isn't working too well. I'd say that an angered Leo is far more vicious with the revenge due to a hurt pride while an angered Scorpio truly is all bark no bite.
This would be merely silly if you weren't actually lying about me. Where have I "promoted Scorpios" as anything? Please refer me back to my actual posts. I have no interest in your ugly view of human beings.

Or is your post simply your idea of teasing me? I suspect so.

19th Law, you don't have to be so misanthropic.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-07-2019 at 05:09 AM.
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