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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #76  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:01 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Somna7H
keep in mind that
House location of a natal planet can change
dependent on the house system chosen


Placidus is simply the default at astro.com
to view for yourself how that works in practice
simply create your natal chart using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES option
on astro.com Extended Chart Selection Page
which offers a choice from fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use


then
compare with the natal chart using Placidus option
notice that

WHOLE SIGN HOUSE ascendant sign becomes the whole first house
and the other houses follow.
The ASCENDANT POINT ITSELF can then fall anywhere in the first house
and
MIDHEAVEN POINT anywhere in the upper half of the chart

by the way

There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or
means of dividing the so-called "birthchart"
into twelve segments of life activity.

In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains
represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas
or arenas
of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in the SIGN of Aries
was also a planet in the HOUSE of Aries
so that in effect houses as we know them today did not exisT

and so
you mention 5th house issues
which house system are you using?
if you can post your chart that would be helpful, thanks

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #77  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:06 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Somna7H
one of our members kaktuzz
offers FREE online TRADITIONAL CHART CALCULATION
at
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktuzz View Post
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...346#post836346
Hello,
I'm new to traditional astrology.

It's absolutely new brand of astrology for me
- I just recently downloaded Morinus software
and it gave me some inspiration to create free online calculator adjusted for traditional astrology:
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology

calculator has features such as:
7 main planets;
Terms;

Lot of Fortune;
Lot of Spirit;


Whole sign houses;


Firdaria periods calculator;
Dodecatemoria calculator;

Prenatal syzygy chart...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #78  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:40 AM
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Somna7H Somna7H is offline
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

@JUPITERASC

Thank you!
More I know more I get confused.

Whole House Sign(Tropical Zodiac)
Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars in 6th Libra.

Whole House Sign(Sidereal Zodiac)
Saturn Conjunct Mars in 6th Virgo.

Placidious(Tropical Zodiac)
Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars in Libra 5th House.
But Mars is very close to 6th House Cusp.

Placidious(Sidereal Zodiac)
Saturn Conjunct Mars in Virgo 5th House.
But Mars is very close to 6th House Cusp.
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My Natal Chart : http://imgur.com/FAzvpaf
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  #79  
Unread 10-22-2018, 01:01 PM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Well, more power to you, Rhys.

My knowledge of Kabbalah is very limited. I converted to Judaism many years ago. I haven't been active in it for the past 25 years, but studied portions of it a fair bit in years past.

The Jewish tradition is that no-one should study Kabbalah until middle age (OK for you) and after thorough grounding in traditional Judaic studies. The reason is so that the student would be emotionally grounded before undertaking it.

There is a debate on the origin of the Kabbalah, but I think the scholars date it to the Middle Ages in Spain. But Judaism also has a tradition of inserting more recent developments backwards in time, retroactively. Ideas developed more recently got retroactively pasted on earlier times. Culturally, similar anachronisms are a very widespread practice.

I think also, Jewish scholars of past centuries poured over the Torah and Talmud, seeking glimmerings of meanings, often through numerology, alliteration, and word play.

I might be way off the mark, but Jewish history is very long and often very oppressed, impoverished, and sad. I imagine rabbis pouring over their texts, seeking a mystical release that couldn't be found in their mundane world.

In addition to teasing out glimmers of information, the rabbis also dealt with (suppressed?) information in the Bible that was inconsistent with orthodoxy. "Elohim" in Hebrew is a plural word, basically for "gods."

The Tetragrammaton-- the word never to be pronounced; and once printed, never to be destroyed-- is routinely bantered around by people who are not observant Jews.

There is also a long history of Christians and others looking for a grand theory that would show the underlying unity of seemingly disparate branches of esoteric knowledge. The Renaissance magus, memorialized in the character of Dr. Faust, comes to mind.

I'd have to say that Judaism in eastern Europe had its own really pagan magical traditions, like the golem.

To what extent is the study of Kabbalah cultural appropriation? To what extent is knowledge, esoteric or otherwise, available to all, to take from it what we choose?

Hi Waybread ! :-)

Spot on about what age, traditionally, kabbalistic studies were started (i.e. at least 40 years old) and then only with a solid grounding in the Torah and Talmud and it goes without saying assiduously following the 613 mitzvot.

The Hermetic kabbalists appropriated the traditional kabbalah from Latin texts, and because no self respecting traditional kabbalist/rabbi was going to reveal their secrets to a goy like Kirchner, he arrogantly (in my view) laid his own system of numbering the Paths of the Tree, which basically involved taking the Hebrew alphabet and letting the letters fall where they would in alphabetical order, instead of putting the three mothers (alef, mem and shin) on the three lateral paths, the way any kabbalist rabbi could have told him to do, but of course they didn't (tell him), and I don't blame them!

That being said, the GD did manage to build a system that worked within its own terms, working much the same way that Christianity has Judaism as its base or foundation.

In my own kabbalistic work, which I've been practicing daily for the last twenty years or so, I started out in a GD-derived order based in the UK, then hooked up with a Welsh magician who - though not completely rejecting the modern practices - primarily focused on traditional kabbalah, following the work of Rabbi Joseph Gatkilla (1248- c.1305) whose teacher was the kabbalist Abraham Abulafia, who had started a school called ecstatic kabbalah.

I personally would never utter the name of G*d. I agree with your assessment of modern Qabalists with regard to this, however, it is permissible to work with the letters of the Name as individual letters, as they are the essential formula of creation according to traditional kabbalah, with Yud corresponding to Fire, Heh to Water, Vav to Air, and Heh final to Earth, which brings us back to astrology! Yippee! :-) I'll address this more in a separate post.

Good point about Elohim being plural, words ending in "-im" normally being masculine plural in Hebrew. However, when referring to the true god of Israel, Elohim -oddly- is singular, e.g. Exodus 3:4, "Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ...". That being said, you are absolutely right, aside from that special case, Elohim normally refers to multiple gods, usually false ones e.g. Shemot (Exodus) 20:3 "Thou shalt have no elohim acherim in My presence."

Just one last thing, although many people attempt to "study" the kabbalah, and indeed one ends up having to read about it in order to get a handle on it, ultimately, the kabbalah isn't studied, it is something that one experiences. The Holy Spheres are real. They are more real than real. One can "study" and read about the kabbalah until one is blue in the face, and indeed many do, however, they (the Spheres) must be experienced in order for understanding to occur. Others may disagree with me on this point and they are welcome to do so, but that's my view.

Thanks for your response, Waybread.

Regarding the promised pic of the Saturn talisman, I ended up needing to do a bit more work on it, so I'm waiting on an election to come up tomorrow, Saturn is rising on an hour of Saturn with the Moon in OK condition, and then hopefully I will be done!

Last edited by Rhys; 10-22-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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  #80  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:31 PM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Rhys, you're a gentleman and a scholar.

Back when I regularly attended services at the one synagogue in my city, I really liked a certain part of the liturgy, from Proverbs 3:17-18, at the conclusion of the Torah reading.

"It is a tree of life to all who hold fast to it. All its ways are pleasantness, and all its paths are peace."

The tree of life is such an important ancient symbol that ranges far beyond Judaism and Christianity. For example, in Northern mythology, the tree Yggdrasil.
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  #81  
Unread 12-13-2018, 12:35 PM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somna7H View Post


@JUPITERASC

Thank you!
More I know more I get confused.

Whole House Sign(Tropical Zodiac)
Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars in 6th Libra.

Whole House Sign(Sidereal Zodiac)
Saturn Conjunct Mars in 6th Virgo.


Placidious(Tropical Zodiac)
Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars in Libra 5th House.
But Mars is very close to 6th House Cusp.

Placidious(Sidereal Zodiac)
Saturn Conjunct Mars in Virgo 5th House.
But Mars is very close to 6th House Cusp
.
we have sidereal astrologer members
so it is ok to attach a Sidereal chart as well as Tropical chart

these are instructions HOW TO ATTACH A CHART
TO YOUR POST ON THE FORUM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwadm

DESKTOP
1) Once you generate the chart image using your favourite website, copy the image address

2) Click on the Attachment icon (if you don't see it, select 'Advanced' posting first)

3) New window will open, paste the image address, click Upload button, close the window

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #82  
Unread 01-01-2019, 07:15 AM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Rhys? We've been a little worried. Talisman, greater malefic, and you disappeared.

Let us know Saturn didn't eat you, ok?
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  #83  
Unread 02-04-2019, 03:17 AM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Thanks to all of you who are keeping this thread on topic! Reminder to those who forget: this is a traditional astrology topic. I just deleted a post that mentioned Lilith. Not traditional astrology. Take Lilith to the modern area.
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  #84  
Unread 02-05-2019, 05:56 AM
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Talking Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

OH ...my mistake (I got mixed up with *modern* astrology, I won't do that again) Saturn in Virgo...what a malefic if the old man planet is in the sign of the maiden. On my natal chart, Saturn conjunct Mars and Jupiter, which will mean a life of difficulty, struggle and disparities with your friends.

An article on people like Chelsea Clinton (born Feb 27, 1980) with this triplicity (same month and year like me, Feb 15th) and their reputation in the public eye or in the world around themselves.
https://www.indastro.com/planet-conj...njunction.html
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!

Last edited by CapAquaPis; 02-06-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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  #85  
Unread 02-05-2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post

OH ...my mistake (I got mixed up with *modern* astrology, I won't do that again)
Saturn in Virgo...what a malefic if the old man planet is in the sign of the maiden.
On my natal chart, Saturn conjunct Mars and Jupiter, which will mean
a life of difficulty, struggle and disparities with your friends.
An article on people like Chelsea Clinton (born Feb 27, 1980)
with this triplicity stellium (same month and year like me, Feb 15th).
https://www.indastro.com/planet-conj...njunction.html
keep in mind that traditional astrology has no "stellium"
i.e.
when more than one planet in same sign
tradtionally that's an ASSEMBLY of planets
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #86  
Unread 02-06-2019, 05:26 AM
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Re: Saturn the Greater Malefic

Saturn opposite sun is a very malefic aspect, whether in tropical or sidereal: Feb 1980 people (like myself with 26' Aquarius sun, but in sidereal, 1' Aqua vs. 29' Leo Saturn) and anyone in late Feb (25' Virgo tropical opposite 8' Pisces sun for example). And Virgo ASC with the Saturn, Mars and Jupiter conjunction is of grave concern, however I fortunately don't have a Virgo ASC on my chart.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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