Hellenistic delineations

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you very much for this valuable link, Jupiterasc :smile:
Happy it is of value and use to you :smile:
and here's another you may appreciate
this time on essential dignities

and
how ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES & DEBILITIES are used
to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.


recent - just published 10 May 2018
discusses
ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES and DEBILITIES in Traditional Astrology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVz6xT7yHDs
it's episode 156 of Astrology Podcast
Charles Obert discussing in detail essential dignities
and debilities
 

dd78

Well-known member
Happy it is of value and use to you :smile:


Very much. Thank you :smile:


and here's another you may appreciate
this time on essential dignities
and
how ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES & DEBILITIES are used
to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.

recent - just published 10 May 2018
discusses
ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES and DEBILITIES in Traditional Astrology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVz6xT7yHDs
it's episode 156 of Astrology Podcast
Charles Obert discussing in detail essential dignities
and debilities


I`ve already downloaded a bunch of podcast episodes and have been listening to them since yesterday evening :smile:
And I`m going to download this one right away, thank you :smile:
 
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petosiris

Banned
I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this question (so if it needs to be moved?)

With all the current interest in Hellenistic methods, how exactly does one go about delineating a chart using Hellenistic astrology?

jvxsJCu.png


(Sidereal, Topocentric with dodecatemoria, nonagesimal MC)

Investigating the 71st year (70 years) of Donald Trump, variety of methods

I. Seven Ages of Man according to Ptolemy
Saturn - Late Old Age - Death
Jupiter - Early Old Age - 67
Mars - Late Adulthood - 55
Sun - Early Adulthood - 40
Venus - Youth - 21
Mercury - Childhood - 13
Moon - Infancy - 3

Donald Trump is the oldest president elected in US history. Saturn is of the sect, above the horizon, in the XI image of the Good Daimon, in its triplicity and bound and ruled by Mercury, who is in its domicile, Venus bound, triplicity and degree. Thus the method of Ptolemy gives good results for this nativity (which is more of an argument for taking into account age regardless).

Circumambulation of the Predominator according to the Old Astrologers
The Sun is Predominator. In the 71st year it is distributing to Saturn (which is operative and inclining towards beneficence) and is joining the hexagon ray of Jupiter. Thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

II. Winds according to the Old Astrologers
This nativity is wealth-producing and imperious, with power over life and death for the Sun, the Moon, the Preceding New Moon, Fortune, Daimon and Foundation are all angular, and furthermore the ruler of the Moon is angular and with Regulus which is rising, while the trigon rulers of the Lightbringer are angular after the 38th year, for that is the rising time of inoperative Venus, which is also trigon ruler of the II - wealth, IV - property, the Moon, X - rank and VIII - property.

He was wealthy from the beginning because of his father (Sun to Saturn) - IV, Virgo, Mercury and the Sun trine Jupiter. He inherited the property business of his father - X from Virgo, and right around the time of the 38th year, he completed the construction of the Trump Tower. In the following years he amassed wealth, signified by the rulers of II and VIII and the overall eminence and by the times.

He has 2 angular triplicity rulers, thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

III. 129 Years according to the Exaltation Method of Balbilus, the Days of the Moon and the Times of the Images
The Predominator is the main Releaser, as in the circumambulation. Every star allots its recurrence years. But if the stars should not be upon the degrees of their exaltations, it will be necessary to substract as many days as there are years, by image, as many months. Thus the Sun here allots 19 years - 19 months, Mercury allots 20 years - 60 months, Saturn allots 30 years - 120 months, Mars allots 15 years - 75 months and Jupiter - 12 years - 24 months. One can further divide each time into 129 parts as many times as necessary.
17.4166667 years - Sun
15 years - Mercury
20 years - Saturn
8.75 years - Mars
10 years - Jupiter
----------------------
71st - Jupiter and Mars - harmonious, like-ascending with reception, these two stars together grant power over life and death, operative and benefic period, thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

To find the third, seventh and fortieth day of the Moon, examine the II, IV and VII from the Moon. Now the fortieth day rules the later part of life, here in Taurus, exaltation, hexagon Venus and trine Jupiter. It is however square Mars, although inferior. Thus it gives mediocre results.

The VI, VII and VIII signify the time around old age. Thus it also gives mediocre results, for although the rulers are well placed and operative, the seventh is opposed by Mars, the malefic contrary to the sect (although ruled by good rulers, it is also contrary to horizon, gender, season and within two images of its depression - it is however much more productive than Venus, which is the worst star in the nativity).

IV. Recurrence Years and Rising Times, 9 years according to Zoroaster and Nechepso, 28 years according to Critodemus, Operative Years according to Vettius Valens

Only the sum of Gemini and Scorpio are operative. But those signs are unconfigured except through like-ascension, so basically nothing in particular is shown by this technique. Valens advises to divide each rising time in thirds or half and sum up them instead. I will skip those.

Find the Ruler of the Moon and allot 9 years for every sign ruler upwards. Mars rules 9 years, then Jupiter, then Saturn. Mercury rules until 72, thus this method provides good results.

According to Critodemus, find the ruler of the degree of the Moon and count upwards. The first degree is assigned to the domicile ruler, then the next 29 degrees (monomoiria) in the seven-zone, also called descending Chaldean order. Every star, beginning from the ruler of the Moon, allots this many years:
Saturn - 7
Jupiter - 6
Mars - 5
Sun - 4
Venus - 3
Mercury - 2
Moon - 1

After one cycle of 28 years is completed, we start from the star after the ruler. In this nativity we begin from Saturn, at the 57th year from Venus, thus Jupiter rules the 71st year. This method also gives good results for this nativity.

The 71st year is also not associated with any interval, however several numerical methods are as follows (using ordinal numbers)
Saturn is operative every four years for 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 = 30
Jupiter is operative every three years for 3 + 4 + 5 = 12
Mars is operative every four years for 4 + 5 + 6 = 15
Sun is operative every nine years for 9 + 10 = 19
Venus is operative every eight years for 8 = 8
Mercury is operative every two years for 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 = 20
Moon is operative every three years for 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 25

Thus:
Saturn - every 4, 30, 57
Jupiter - every 3, 12, 79
Mars - every 4, 15, 66
Sun - every 9, 19, 120
Venus - every 8, 82
Mercury - every 2, 20, 76
Moon - every 3, 25, 108

V. Profections
We investigate the eleventh profection cycle. He became exalted and king of kings in the 71st year, because the Sun and the Moon transmit to Jupiter, while the Hour-Marker transmits to Mercury and Saturn, the most well placed stars in the nativity. Venus also transmits to the Sun, Fortune, Daimon and MC to Jupiter, only the Mars transmission to Gemini is malefic.
Thus, this also provides good results.

According to the King (for monthly profection), count the distance from the Sun at the time to the Moon at the nativity and the same distance from the Hour-Marker. Virgo is the operative month with Mercury as ruler, thus it provides good results for this nativity.

VI. Revolutions - The solar revolution is not as good as expected - only Mars at an angle, Lot with Saturn. In the lunar revolution preceding the election, the angles are well and Jupiter is rising, with the Sun and Mercury in the post-ascension, which signifies the first days of the month. Thus they give ok results.

VII. Transits - Saturn is transiting the Moon and the angles along with Mercury, Jupiter and Venus are operative, and the latter is sending trine ray to the Ascendant. Thus they give ok results.

It would be interesting to see how the tropical chart fares with these methods.
 
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sea_of_qi

Well-known member
jvxsJCu.png


(Sidereal, Topocentric with dodecatemoria, nonagesimal MC)

Investigating the 71st year (70 years) of Donald Trump, variety of methods

.......

It would be interesting to see how the tropical chart fares with these methods.

Wow, that is nice! Thank you. I like a thorough delineation.
 

petosiris

Banned
''In every case it is necessary to take the distance from the sun’s degree-position to the moon’s in the order of the signs using the rising times<?>, and to mark the resulting number of degrees as the solar gnomon. Next consult the table of rising times under the klima of the nativity and see what fraction is entered at the sun’s degree-position. (This is for day births; for night births, look at the point in opposition to the sun.) Multiply this by 12; then multiply the result by the hour of the day at the delivery. If the result exceeds 360°, subtract 360° and see if the remainder corresponds to the previously determined gnomon. If it does, the hour which was reported will be accurate and should be used. If, however, the remainder greatly exceeds the solar gnomon, subtract from the <reported> Ascendant an amount equal to the excess. (Do this by figuring what fraction the excess is of the <hourly> magnitude, and subtract that.) If the solar gnomon is greater, add to the <reported> Ascendant an amount corresponding to the excess. Then determine the fraction <of the hour> and enter the table of rising times. Continue by calculating the full hours and the fraction. Add the years and note at what degree of the zodiac the enklima falls. Consider that point to be the real Ascendant. Thrasyllus used this method, made a scientific beginning, and fashioned a forecast of the end.'' - Valens, translated by Riley - http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius valens entire.pdf

I am going to use Trump's chart to illustrate this somewhat complex method.

1) We determine the ascensional degrees from the Sun to the Moon. We mark 221.5 as the solar gnomon.
2) We determine the ascensional degrees the Sun itself has accumulated (for night - the degree opposite). This is about 26.
3) We multiply 26 by 12 and again by the hour of the nativity, to the minute. He is born at the 5th hour, which lasts from 10:25 until 11:39.
4) 26 x 12 x 5.3919* - 4 x 360 = 242.2728, which exceeds the solar gnomon, thus we need to subtract some 5 minutes from the birth time (26 x 12 x 5.3243 - 4 x 360 = 221.1816) to get the ''real'' Ascendant according to Thrasyllus. Perhaps more precise work with the hours and the ascensional degrees of the Sun would make it 3-5 minutes away.

*If fraction of the hour meant not taking the ordinal number, it would be about 4.3919. But in that case the birth time would have to be rectified by 15 minutes. In any case, I would group this rectification method along with the conceptional chart as ''rectifications that have to be'' - because they do not allow for certain birth times.
**There are certain charts from the Hellenistic period that say that a planet is at 30 degrees and certain minutes - for example 30° 45''. This is what makes it ambiguous in this case as well. Perhaps the ''full hours and the fraction'' mean that it takes the full hours and the fraction, as I did, but I am not sure.
 
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petosiris

Banned
OM8y0cf.png


Another example, with the newly elected Mexican President - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lopez_Obrador,_Andres_Manuel

According to the AA source, the birth occurred at 2:00, quite unlikely, like most rounded off births. Let's use Thrasyllus' method again.

1) We determine the ascensional degrees from the Sun to the Moon. We mark 81 as the solar gnomon.
2) We determine the ascensional degrees from the degree opposite the Sun - this is 23.
3) We multiply 23 by 12 and again by the hour of the nativity, with the fractions. Since the birth occurred at the beginning of the ninth hour - 23 x 12 x 8 - 360 x 6 = 48 which is less than the solar gnomon.
4) We add 7 minutes to the time of birth and with 23 x 12 x 8.12 - 360 x 6 = 81 and we get the ''real'' Ascendant.

Jupiter is Lord of the Year and in the place of Good Daimon with Fortune. The Lightbringer also profects to its exaltation. Note that he was not elected with the same profections 12 years ago. Since the Ruler of the Peak was in the place of the Bad Daimon in the 2005 solar revolution, in this Revolution she is with Jupiter to the degree making a phase.

Since the rising time of Libra is 32.5, doubled it makes the stellium operative. And since the rising time of Gemini is 33 and of Virgo is 31.25, it makes the Jupiter square Mars productive of rank, politics and authority (as are the rising times of Virgo and Capricorn for that partile trine). And since half of the rising time of Gemini is 16.5 and 4 times the years of Jupiter = 64.5, it makes it even more operative.

And since the year is multiple of 5, which is the special interval point of Venus (inferior trine), it makes the profection of Jupiter and Fortune even stronger than the last one, and according to Valens ''The configurations of the stars and their aspects with each other (especially the aspects with the Lot of Fortune) are effective in the chronocratorships which are in harmony. (The whole is seen and arises from the aspects of the Lot of Fortune and from its ruler'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Many thanks petosiris :smile:
I have added example rectification you detailed
using THRASYLLUS method
to ongoing RECTIFICATION EXAMPLES thread at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=886760#post886760

OM8y0cf.png


Another example, with the newly elected Mexican President - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lopez_Obrador,_Andres_Manuel

According to the AA source, the birth occurred at 2:00, quite unlikely, like most rounded off births. Let's use Thrasyllus' method again.

1) We determine the ascensional degrees from the Sun to the Moon. We mark 81 as the solar gnomon.
2) We determine the ascensional degrees from the degree opposite the Sun - this is 23.
3) We multiply 23 by 12 and again by the hour of the nativity, with the fractions. Since the birth occurred at the beginning of the ninth hour - 23 x 12 x 8 - 360 x 6 = 48 which is less than the solar gnomon.
4) We add 7 minutes to the time of birth and with 23 x 12 x 8.12 - 360 x 6 = 81 and we get the ''real'' Ascendant.

Jupiter is Lord of the Year and in the place of Good Daimon with Fortune. The Lightbringer also profects to its exaltation. Note that he was not elected with the same profections 12 years ago. Since the Ruler of the Peak was in the place of the Bad Daimon in the 2005 solar revolution, in this Revolution she is with Jupiter to the degree making a phase.

Since the rising time of Libra is 32.5, doubled it makes the stellium operative. And since the rising time of Gemini is 33 and of Virgo is 31.25, it makes the Jupiter square Mars productive of rank, politics and authority (as are the rising times of Virgo and Capricorn for that partile trine). And since half of the rising time of Gemini is 16.5 and 4 times the years of Jupiter = 64.5, it makes it even more operative.

And since the year is multiple of 5, which is the special interval point of Venus (inferior trine), it makes the profection of Jupiter and Fortune even stronger than the last one, and according to Valens ''The configurations of the stars and their aspects with each other (especially the aspects with the Lot of Fortune) are effective in the chronocratorships which are in harmony. (The whole is seen and arises from the aspects of the Lot of Fortune and from its ruler'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf
 

petosiris

Banned
Cancer Rising, Saturn with Leo, Jupiter with Virgo, Mars with Cancer, Venus with Cancer, Sun with Taurus, Venus with Cancer, Mercury with Taurus, Moon with Aries, Ascending Node with Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon with Scorpio. The native rose from moderate origins to governorship and military strategist, because the rulers of the Lightbringer were rising and culminating.

Aquarius Rising, Saturn with Leo, Jupiter with Virgo, Mars with Scorpio, Sun with Capricorn, Venus with Aquarius, Mercury with Capricorn, Moon with Libra, Ascending Node with Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon with Cancer. He became general officer in the military, for Mars was culminating with the Lot of Fortune and the configurations of benefics.

Hour-Marker at 14 Gemini, Saturn retreating at 25 Gemini, Jupiter retreating at 3 Libra, Mars at 22 Gemini, Sun at 26 Aquarius, Venus at 5 Pisces, Mercury at 14 Pisces, Moon at 29 Taurus, Ascending Node at 2 Gemini, preceding New Moon at 19 Aquarius. The native lived 69 days because the malefics were rising and were operative by year (I mean the Hour-Marker onto itself) and critical day (70 : 10 = 7), and were upon the tenth of the Lot of Fortune, while the Sun, the Moon and the preceding New Moon were inoperative and with malefic bounds. The malefics ruled the decennials.

Hour-Marker at 24 Aries, Saturn at 28 Capricorn, Jupiter at 13 Libra, Mars at 20 Leo, Sun at 23 Libra, Venus at 21 Libra, Mercury retreating at 10 Libra, Moon at 28 Scorpio, Ascending Node at 12 Capricorn, preceding New Moon at 21 Libra. He became a popular astronomer because of the changeable and clever Scales and Mercury and Jupiter rising from the beams. The father was a garment worker on account of Aries and Taurus [1]. He died in the 63rd year because of the Master of the Nativity allotting 57 years [2], the Moon, the profections [3], and the critical year [4].

[1] The Lot of Father and 10th from 4th
[2] Saturn was angular - 57
[3] Moon onto Saturn, Saturn onto Fortune, Mars onto Sun which are doubled because the year is factor of 3
[4] 7 x 9 is the grand climacteric
By decennials using the 365.25 year, Venus distributes to Mars and it to Saturn.

Hour-Marker at 9 Libra, Saturn at 20 Aquarius, Jupiter at 30 Scorpio, Mars at 21 Pisces, Sun at 28 Aquarius, Venus at 30 Capricorn, Mercury at 5 Aquarius, Moon at 11 Libra, Ascending Node at 16 Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon at 24 Leo. The native became a distinguished judge, and he had nine children on account of Children with the prolific Crab [1]. He died in the 80th year because the Releaser reached the ray of Mars within the inoperative Archer, because of the years of the Master of the Nativity [3], and because of the progressions and operative years involving Saturn and Mars*, and because Saturn, the Sun and the Moon were inoperative at the revolution, and because of Jupiter onto Saturn through the method of decennials, and because Mars was walking through the Claws [4].

[1] 10th signifies children in the Hellenistic tradition + the Lot of Children is there as well (Jupiter to Saturn, reverse by night)
[2] Every 4th year and combinations involving 2/3 of the years for example 4 x 30 = 120 x 2/3 = 80, or 8 x 15 = 120 x 2/3 = 80, or the combinations of the aforementioned
[3] Mercury was operative - 76
[4] Another name for Libra
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121676



Cancer Rising, Saturn with Leo, Jupiter with Virgo, Mars with Cancer, Venus with Cancer, Sun with Taurus, Venus with Cancer, Mercury with Taurus, Moon with Aries, Ascending Node with Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon with Scorpio. The native rose from moderate origins to governorship and military strategist, because the rulers of the Lightbringer were rising and culminating.

Aquarius Rising, Saturn with Leo, Jupiter with Virgo, Mars with Scorpio, Sun with Capricorn, Venus with Aquarius, Mercury with Capricorn, Moon with Libra, Ascending Node with Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon with Cancer. He became general officer in the military, for Mars was culminating with the Lot of Fortune and the configurations of benefics.

Hour-Marker at 14 Gemini, Saturn retreating at 25 Gemini, Jupiter retreating at 3 Libra, Mars at 22 Gemini, Sun at 26 Aquarius, Venus at 5 Pisces, Mercury at 14 Pisces, Moon at 29 Taurus, Ascending Node at 2 Gemini, preceding New Moon at 19 Aquarius. The native lived 69 days because the malefics were rising and were operative by year (I mean the Hour-Marker onto itself) and critical day (70 : 10 = 7), and were upon the tenth of the Lot of Fortune, while the Sun, the Moon and the preceding New Moon were inoperative and with malefic bounds. The malefics ruled the decennials.

Hour-Marker at 24 Aries, Saturn at 28 Capricorn, Jupiter at 13 Libra, Mars at 20 Leo, Sun at 23 Libra, Venus at 21 Libra, Mercury retreating at 10 Libra, Moon at 28 Scorpio, Ascending Node at 12 Capricorn, preceding New Moon at 21 Libra. He became a popular astronomer because of the changeable and clever Scales and Mercury and Jupiter rising from the beams. The father was a garment worker on account of Aries and Taurus [1]. He died in the 63rd year because of the Master of the Nativity allotting 57 years [2], the Moon, the profections [3], and the critical year [4].

[1] The Lot of Father and 10th from 4th
[2] Saturn was angular - 57
[3] Moon onto Saturn, Saturn onto Fortune, Mars onto Sun which are doubled because the year is factor of 3
[4] 7 x 9 is the grand climacteric
By decennials using the 365.25 year, Venus distributes to Mars and it to Saturn.

Hour-Marker at 9 Libra, Saturn at 20 Aquarius, Jupiter at 30 Scorpio, Mars at 21 Pisces, Sun at 28 Aquarius, Venus at 30 Capricorn, Mercury at 5 Aquarius, Moon at 11 Libra, Ascending Node at 16 Sagittarius, preceding Full Moon at 24 Leo. The native became a distinguished judge, and he had nine children on account of Children with the prolific Crab [1]. He died in the 80th year because the Releaser reached the ray of Mars within the inoperative Archer, because of the years of the Master of the Nativity [3], and because of the progressions and operative years involving Saturn and Mars*, and because Saturn, the Sun and the Moon were inoperative at the revolution, and because of Jupiter onto Saturn through the method of decennials, and because Mars was walking through the Claws [4].

[1] 10th signifies children in the Hellenistic tradition + the Lot of Children is there as well (Jupiter to Saturn, reverse by night)
[2] Every 4th year and combinations involving 2/3 of the years for example 4 x 30 = 120 x 2/3 = 80, or 8 x 15 = 120 x 2/3 = 80, or the combinations of the aforementioned
[3] Mercury was operative - 76
[4] Another name for Libra
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
So let's say one has a night chart with Jupiter in the upper hemisphere. Is Jupiter happy there, according to this formula? Or does it depend on whether it is a night or day chart? Or is Jupiter always happiest in the upper hemisphere, as far as rejoicing by day is concerned, irregardless of whether it is a night or day chart?

Thanks!
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=920890#post920890

You got something wrong, as the Hellenistic astrologers are consistent in saying that Jupiter in a night chart is better under the horizon than above the horizon (all other factors aside, such as the exact place). The reverse happens by day. Basically the diurnal planets rejoice in the hemicycle where the Sun is, the opposite with the nocturnal (this is my explanation for their reversal). They don't say how strong is this rejoicing exactly, but it does appear to be a secondary factor compared to the primary sect condition. Only the medieval astrologers started to consider them equal.

The diurnal sect rejoices above the horizon by day, but below the horizon by night. The nocturnal sect rejoices above the horizon by night, but below the horizon by day. It can be a bit confusing at the beginning, I remember teaching someone completely new to astrology, and I eventually decided to skip all those minor considerations. It needs a bit of practice until it becomes natural, although I can see someone claiming that they are convoluted or unimportant. I consider the gender and horizon as equal considerations, each five times weaker than the primary consideration.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member




The Sun rules day on account of its heating, slightly drying, active and light functions, and clearly because it makes day itself ''the whole circle <the zodiac> has been entrusted to the Sun''. The Moon rules night on account of its moistening, nurturing, and passive influences (''gift of rest'', fresh air, life-breath). It is slightly heating on account of reflecting the light of the Sun, so it is important to understand that the Lights have ''cosmic sympathy and harmony'' as Valens says, rather than contrariety as some suppose.

Jupiter is productive of hot and fecund winds, thus it joins the sect of the Sun. Saturn is productive of cold, and its cruel power is broken by day and made temperate. Venus is productive of moisture and some heat, thus it joins the sect of the Moon. Mars is productive of destructive heat and drying winds, and its cruel power is broken by night and made temperate. Thus, Jupiter and Saturn are guardians of the Sun, while Venus and Mars are guardians of the Moon. Mercury is guardian of both (based on which quality he became guide of the souls in the afterlife in various religions).

Obviously, the spear-bearers of the Sun rejoice above the horizon (the word comes from ὁρίζων κύκλος - separating circle which divides the two hemispheres) with it, but when the Sun is contrary to the ruling sect and below the horizon, it would naturally be better for the planets to be in the underworld, for the light of the Sun does not reach the upper hemisphere at that time of the day.

Contrarily, the spear-bearers of the Moon rejoice away from the day hemisphere, the rays of Mars being restrained and made slightly more benefic (through temperate admixture) when shining from the night hemisphere, while those of the Moon and Venus being reinforced. As Manilius says, some astrologers believed the nocturnal planets rejoice in feminine signs ''in the safe cover of darkness''. The opposite happens when they are above the horizon by day, for the same reason.

Objection: This theorem produces an asymmetry - the Sun is always rejoicing, while the Moon is not, Venus is never culminating and rejoicing, Mercury is often rejoicing by day, but not by night.
Answer: Those ''asymmetries'' are naturally occurring based on other considerations like the cosmic rulership of the Sun or the orbits of Venus and Mercury. It would be a mistake not to take into account the natural natures or mixtures of the stars, however different they are (as discussed in the previous parts). For although Venus is never culminating by night, or Jupiter exalted in a diurnal sign, those considerations are not meant to be the same for all the stars, on account of their different natures and affinities.





Other Threads In This Series :smile:


INTRODUCTION TO HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY Part One - Zodiac
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121654

INTRODUCTION TO HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY Part Two -Seven Stars
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121671


INTRODUCTION TO HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY Part Four - Nativities
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121677
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.







The culmination of more than fifteen years of research into Greek and Latin sources
by translator Robert H. Schmidt, The Astrological Record of the Early Sages
has been planned as
a comprehensive 30-volume library of Hellenistic astrology in English translation.


When complete, it will contain virtually all the astrological treatises
and fragments that have survived in their original languages.
Many of these source texts
which include some of the most important from the standpoint of astrological practice
have never before been available in English translation.
In some cases, they have not yet been translated into any modern language.
Such previous English translations as do exist have not been especially sensitive
to the astrological content of these writings.
The intent of the present edition is to draw out in detail and explicate fully
– the theory and practice of Hellenistic astrology.
To this end, the translated texts will be carefully sequenced, and published monthly
or bi-monthly in a uniform format with standardized translation conventions.
Each will have extensive textual, interpretive, and analytical commentary.
An initial companion volume has already been prepared
that contains a glossary as well as other reference aids.
When the entire series of translations is complete, a final volume
will contain an elaborate index and concluding remarks.
The Astrological Record of the Early Sages
will soon make it possible for moderns to study all these texts firsthand
and make an independent appraisal of the intrinsic merits
and the broader implications of this ancient discipline.
For more information about the series, click here. :smile:
http://projecthindsight.com/products/tares.html
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
BRILL has published



“Hellenistic Astronomy: The Science in Its Contexts”
(ISBN: 978-90-04-24336-1) a 751 pages’ thick book
There are well-known names on the list of contributors
even for the astrological community:

Siam Bhayrom, Alan C. Bowen, Lis Brack-Bernsen, Giuseppe Cambiano
Nicola Denzey Lewis, Dennis Duke, James Evans
Klaus Geus, Gerd Graßhoff, Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum, Robert Hannah
Stephan Heilen, Wolfgang Hübner
Hermann Hunger, Helen R. Jacobus, Richard L. Kremer
Stamatina Mastorakou, Clemency Montelle, Mathieu Ossendrijver, Tracey E. Rihll
Francesca Rochberg, Micah Ross, Alfred Schmid,
Nathan Sidoli, Anthony Spalinger
Glen Van BrummelenJames C. VanderKam
Alexandra von Lieven, James Wilberding
and Christian Wildberg – to list them all.


BRILL says about its book:

In “Hellenistic Astronomy: The Science in Its Contexts”
new essays
by renowned scholars address questions
about what the ancient science of the heavens was
in the ancient Near East and Mediterranean worlds
and the numerous contexts in which it was pursued.
Together, these essays will enable readers
not only to understand the technical accomplishments of this ancient science
but also to appreciate their historical significance
by locating the questions, challenges, and issues inspiring them
in their political, medical, philosophical, literary, and religious contexts.

The book is divided into three parts:

Technical Requirements
Observations, Instruments, and Issues
Contexts.

It covers noticeably long time span: from 300 BCE to 750 CE.

The astrology is mentioned often
but even more often: “a prognostic astronomy” is mentioned.
something worthwhile is out there:
if you are interested in the subject :smile:



.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



Astrologer ALAN WHITE died at the age of 69 on 18 August 2011.
A few months before he died
he recorded a version of his intro to Hellenistic astrology lecture
to have it on the historical record.
audio version : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3H2M6dMF5w




ALAN WHITE - INTRODUCTION TO HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY

his life and work from 2010.
Alan began studying astrology seriously in the 1980s :smile:

and then
in the mid-1990s he discovered Project Hindsight
and developed a deep interest in ancient astrology.
He created an introductory lecture on Hellenistic astrology
using a flip chart that he presented
at a number of astrological meetings in the 2000s
and one of these presentations in 2001
led to Demetra George teaching a course on the subject at Kepler College.





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socrates

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

One step at a time is a more sensible approach than leaping merrily over a chasm


The following are basics of Hellenistic analysis from Valens as translated by Robert Schmidt

To find conditions relevant to the fitness and/or ability of a planet to conduct its business we would commence with assessing conditions that are relative to the horizon, so:

If a planet is in an angular or succedent Whole Sign house then the planet is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.
Angular Houses = 1,4,7,10: Succedent Houses = 2,5,8.11


If a planet remains angular when using dynamic house system Porphyry then the planet is said to be 'goaded' towards more activity.

If a planet is in a cadent Whole Sign house, then the planet is in a place that is not conducive to the conduct of its business.
Cadent Houses = 3,6,9,12


If a benefic planet is in a cadent house, the beneficence of the planet is turned away from the native (or native’s agenda).


If a malefic planet is in a cadent house, the malevolence of the planet is turned away from the native (or the native's agenda).



Astrologers seem to have had more time available to them two thousand plus years ago... how fortunate they were!

Unfortunately however they lacked computers, so to send and receive messages took weeks, months, if not years, so on balance since we have an online forum, we are in a sense, fortunate! Good also that neither of us has to chisel ancient hieroglyphics onto stone
. Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year :smile:

There is software that does all the donkey work available from astrology x files (Curtis Manwaring) http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/ and Rumen Kolev (one of the few living practitioners of Ancient Babylonian Astrology who also just happens to be a software programmer) has this extraordinary product on offer http://alabe.com/placidus.html :smile:

The next step according to Schmidt if anyone is interested is:

"The proposed algorithms for both of these ruling planets are not without their interpretive difficulties, although the determination of the lord of the nativity is stated in the Porphyry text itself to be especially difficult. The determination of the domicile master of the nativity is based on a predomination (epikratēsis) argument—that is, we first have to determine which of the two lights is better positioned in the nativity according to several specified criteria. The domicile master of the nativity is then taken as the domicile lord of the image occupied by this light..."

if a planet is cadent in 9th house but on MC sign but about 7 to 10 degrees from that point is it still strong?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

if a planet is cadent in 9th house
but on MC sign
but about 7 to 10 degrees from that point
is it still strong?
there is no "...one size fits all..."
generalisation is tempting fun but unreliable
each chart is different

post the chart :smile:


.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

if a planet is cadent in 9th house but on MC sign but about 7 to 10 degrees from that point is it still strong?


Are you talking about Saturn in the 9th in this chart, which is in the sign of the MC and 10 degrees away from the MC point?
 
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