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  #1  
Unread 05-03-2017, 10:36 AM
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Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calculator



Hidden inscriptions offer new clues to the origins
of a mysterious astronomical mechanism


DECODING THE ANTIKYTHERA MECHANISM - THE FIRST COMPUTER

After 2,000 years under the sea, the sight is stunning.
Close inspection shows traces of technology that appear utterly modern:
gears with neat triangular teeth (just like the inside of a clock)
and a ring divided into degrees (like the protractor you used in school).
Nothing else like this has ever been discovered from antiquity.
Nothing as sophisticated, or even close, appears again for more than a thousand years

AND

Solely because of a belief that ancient people couldn’t possibly build a device so complex
some claim Antikythera Mechanism is a hoax .

BUT

The Antikythera Mechanism Research Project stated
that an examination at the National Archaeological Museum in Athens
has found that the device is not a hoax.


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...o2zHQ44I2HR.99




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Unread 05-03-2017, 10:30 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula



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Unread 05-03-2017, 11:54 PM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Not sure why you characterize it as Babylonian, when it's apparently Greek.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 09:51 AM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Not sure why you characterize it as Babylonian, when it's apparently Greek.

'......Cicero wrote of a bronze device
made by Archimedes in the third century B.C.
And James Evans, a historian of astronomy at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington
thinks that the eclipse cycle represented is Babylonian in origin
and begins in 205 B.C
.
Maybe it was Hipparchus, an astronomer in Rhodes around that time
who worked out the math behind the device.
He is known for having blended the arithmetic-based predictions of Babylonians
with geometric theories favored by the Greeks
.
...'


The Antithykera Mechanism
is by far the most advanced piece of ancient technology ever discovered
is older than we thought
and
not quite as Greek as we thought either
.
Researchers think they have identified a particular solar eclipse
predicted by the device's complex cycle of astronomical calculations
which can find the location of the Sun and Moon, the phase of the Moon
and possibly the positions of the planets for any given day.
Christian Carman, a science historian at the National University of Quilmes in Argentina
and James Evans, a physicist at the University of Puget Sound in Washington
reached their conclusions by comparing the mechanism's eclipse predictions
found on the Saros dial
with records from Babylon.
That gave them the cosmological clockwork's start date
12 May 205BC
more than a century earlier than originally thought
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Unread 05-04-2017, 10:46 AM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

I thought of Archimedes right away. The Alexandrians had model steam-engines they used as teaching devices, but as far as we know, they weren't used to perform work, such as milling lumber, grinding wheat, or propelling boats. Plenty of inventive ability, not much practical application.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 11:53 AM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

I thought of Archimedes right away.
The Alexandrians had model steam-engines they used as teaching devices,
but as far as we know,

they weren't used to perform work,
such as milling lumber, grinding wheat, or propelling boats.
Plenty of inventive ability, not much practical application.
Plenty of 21st Century "inventive ability that is not applied in practice"
for example
life cycle of hemp is far swifter than that of trees
hence more efficient to use hemp instead of trees for paper

however, returning to the topic

The evidence persuaded Drs Carman and Evans that
the ANTITHYKERA mechanism was designed according to Babylonian arithmetic principles

rather than Greek trigonometry, which had not been invented in 205BC.
But while the principle used was imported
it remains likely that the mechanism was built in Greece
the lettering on it is Greek
it has a dial that predicts when the Olympic Games will be held
and
bears an inscription mentioning an athletic event on Rhodes.

NEVERTHELESS

The markings on the face of the device
show both Babylonian and Egyptian dates translated into Greek.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 12:18 PM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Possibly Greeks invented and built it using Babylonian records and locations. Hipparchus used Babylonian records in his calculations regarding Precession of the Equinoxes.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 12:41 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Possibly Greeks invented and built it using Babylonian records and locations.
Hipparchus used Babylonian records in his calculations regarding Precession of the Equinoxes.

The new dating adds an additional twist to arguments
over which of the early Greek scientists, Hipparchus, Posidonius
or
according to the Roman scholar Cicero
Archimedes, might have been involved in its manufacture.
because
It is just seven years after Archimedes died

at the hands of a Roman soldier during the sacking of Syracuse
though whether this makes a direct link more or less likely
depends on whom you ask.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 10:52 PM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

It has all the hallmarks of the Alexandrian scientific community. What are the chances it was backdated to use the Babylonian eclipse as a reference point? So much of of their work was destroyed, and the early Church would have considered it the work of the Devil. Not surprising if records of its manufacture were expunged.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 11:20 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

It has all the hallmarks of the Alexandrian scientific community.
What are the chances it was backdated to use the Babylonian eclipse as a reference point?
So much of of their work was destroyed, and the early Church would have considered it the work of the Devil.
Not surprising if records of its manufacture were expunged.

Although it is possible
that the device was configured

to start at a point in time earlier than its date of manufacture
that would make it less accurate

hence less useful
as tiny errors accumulate over time
And accuracy was clearly a primary concern of the maker
since the device gets its astronomy spot on.
Drs Carman and Evans research only became possible
after the discovery by Tony Freeth and his colleagues

that the dial on the lower back of the device corresponded to the Saros cycle of eclipses.
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Unread 05-04-2017, 11:23 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

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Unread 05-05-2017, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Although it is possible
that the device was configured

to start at a point in time earlier than its date of manufacture
that would make it less accurate

hence less useful
as tiny errors accumulate over time
And accuracy was clearly a primary concern of the maker
since the device gets its astronomy spot on.
Drs Carman and Evans research only became possible
after the discovery by Tony Freeth and his colleagues

that the dial on the lower back of the device corresponded to the Saros cycle of eclipses.
That makes it sound like it would have been accurate only within a specific timeframe then, only really accurate for that particular cycle of eclipses. If it were accurate enough, it could be backdated using known records, and still work for future predictions. Has it been rebuilt and tested for longer-term accuracy?

Last edited by david starling; 05-05-2017 at 12:35 AM.
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Unread 05-05-2017, 11:27 AM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

That makes it sound like it would have been accurate only within a specific timeframe then
only really accurate for that particular cycle of eclipses.
If it were accurate enough, it could be backdated using known records
and still work for future predictions.
Has it been rebuilt and tested for longer-term accuracy?

Not according to James Evans, professor of physics at University of Puget Sound
and Christián Carman, history of science professor at University of Quilmes, Argentina
bothof whom suggest that the Mechanism's workings point to Babylonian maths informing its construction.

That's not in the slightest remarkable:

even the doggrel version of history
knows there was contact between the two regions well before the 200 BC date
at which the Mechanism is thought to have been made.
By 200BC much of the Mediterranean and what we now call the Middle East
was ruled by Hellenic monarchs claiming connection to Alexander the Great's empire.
Those ancient nations shared a language and thought of themselves as fellow Greeks
or Macedonians
even when at war.
Cultural - exchange in the region was therefore normal
Antithykera Mechanism is now a little more mysterious

its origins may be even more complex than first imagined
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Unread 05-05-2017, 08:01 PM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

It's the construction of the mechanism itself that interests me. Although there were some fairly complex water clocks that employed meshing gears, they weren't on the same technological level. Since there was a mix of Egyptian, Babylonian and Greek cultures in the Alexandrian scientific community, and it was capable of building model steam-engines, I don't think back-dating fifty or so years is ruled out because of the Babylonian influence on its time cycles.
Btw, the first American flags were made from hemp.
The power of the Cotton and Timber industries prevented the far more energy-efficient and environmentally-sound Hemp industry from developing as it should have.

Last edited by david starling; 05-05-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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Unread 05-05-2017, 11:22 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

It's the construction of the mechanism itself that interests me. Although there were some fairly complex water clocks that employed meshing gears, they weren't on the same technological level. Since there was a mix of Egyptian, Babylonian and Greek cultures in the Alexandrian scientific community, and it was capable of building model steam-engines, I don't think back-dating fifty or so years is ruled out because of the Babylonian influence on its time cycles.

Then for more detailed discussion on that
email James Evans, professor of Physics
at University of Puget Sound
and
Christián Carman
History of Science Professor
at University of Quilmes, Argentina


Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Btw, the first American flags were made from hemp.
The power of the Cotton and Timber industries
prevented the far more energy-efficient and environmentally-sound Hemp industry from developing as it should have.

Incidentally, since timber is a diminishing resource
makes sense to use hemp for papermaking
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Unread 05-06-2017, 10:34 AM
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Hi !
Most of the Babylonian and Sumerian writings can be decoded if people do not let ego come in the way. Sumerian is actually a language known as Sangam Tamil which is closely connected to Tamil language spoken in Southern India.But due to reasons unknown, there has been very meagre research on this.
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Unread 08-27-2017, 11:50 AM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaRohini View Post

Hi !
Most of the Babylonian and Sumerian writings can be decoded
if people do not let ego come in the way.
Sumerian is actually a language known as Sangam Tamil
which is closely connected to Tamil language spoken in Southern India.
But due to reasons unknown, there has been very meagre research on this.

GOOD NEWS!!
Mathematical mystery of ancient Babylonian clay tablet solved

UNSW Sydney scientists discovered purpose of famous 3700-year old Babylonian clay tablet
revealing it is the world's oldest
and most accurate
trigonometric table
possibly used by ancient mathematical scribes
to calculate how to construct palaces and temples and build canals.

The new research
shows the Babylonians beat the Greeks
to the invention of trigonometry
- the study of triangles
- by more than 1000 years
and reveals
an ancient mathematical sophistication
that had been hidden until now.



Known as Plimpton 322
the small tablet was discovered
in the early 1900s
in what is now southern Iraq

by archaeologist, academic, diplomat and antiquities dealer Edgar Banks,
the person on whom the fictional character Indiana Jones was based.

Plimpton 322 has four columns and 15 rows of numbers written on it
in the cuneiform script of the time using a base 60, or sexagesimal, system.

Plimpton 322 has puzzled mathematicians for more than 70 years
since it was realised it contains a special pattern of numbers called Pythagorean triples
The huge mystery, until now, was its purpose
- why the ancient scribes carried out the complex task
of generating and sorting the numbers on the tablet.
Our research reveals that Plimpton 322 describes the shapes of right-angle triangles
using a novel kind of trigonometry based on ratios, not angles and circles.
It is a fascinating mathematical work that demonstrates undoubted genius.
The tablet not only contains the world's oldest trigonometric table;
it is also the only completely accurate trigonometric table
because of the very different Babylonian approach to arithmetic and geometry.
This means it has great relevance for our modern world.
Babylonian mathematics may have been out of fashion for more than 3000 years
but it has possible practical applications in surveying, computer graphics and education.
This is a rare example of the ancient world teaching us something new
said Dr Daniel Mansfield of the School of Mathematics and Statistics
in the UNSW Faculty of Science.

The new study by Dr Mansfield and UNSW Associate Professor Norman Wildberger
is published in Historia Mathematica
the official journal of the International Commission on the History of Mathematics.
A trigonometric table allows you to use one known ratio of the sides of a right-angle triangle
to determine the other two unknown ratios.
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Unread 08-27-2017, 12:02 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula



The Greek astronomer Hipparchus, who lived about 120 years BC
has long been regarded as the father of trigonometry
with his "table of chords" on a circle
considered the oldest trigonometric table.
HOWEVER
Plimpton 322 predates Hipparchus by more than 1000 years

and Dr Wildberger said:

"It opens up new possibilities
not just for modern mathematics research, but also for mathematics education.
With Plimpton 322 we see a simpler, more accurate trigonometry
that has clear advantages over our own.
A treasure-trove of Babylonian tablets exists
but only a fraction of them have been studied yet.
The mathematical world is only waking up to the fact that this ancient
but very sophisticated mathematical culture has much to teach us"


Dr Mansfield read about Plimpton 322 by chance
when preparing material for first year mathematics students at UNSW.
He and Dr Wildberger decided to study Babylonian mathematics
and examine the different historical interpretations of the tablet's meaning
after realizing that it had parallels with the rational trigonometry
of Dr Wildberger's book Divine Proportions: Rational Trigonometry to Universal Geometry.

The 15 rows on the tablet describe a sequence of 15 right-angle triangles
which are steadily decreasing in inclination.
The left-hand edge of the tablet is broken
and the UNSW researchers build on previous research
to present new mathematical evidence
that there were originally 6 columns
and that the tablet was meant to be completed with 38 rows.

They also demonstrate how the ancient scribes
who used a base 60 numerical arithmetic similar to our time cloc
rather than the base 10 number system we use
could have generated the numbers on the tablet
using their mathematical techniques.

The UNSW Science mathematicians also provide evidence
that discounts the widely-accepted view that the tablet was simply a teacher's aid
for checking students' solutions of quadratic problems.

"Plimpton 322 was a powerful tool
that could have been used for surveying fields
or making architectural calculations to build palaces, temples
or step pyramids," says Dr Mansfield.

The tablet - thought to have come from the ancient Sumerian city of Larsa
has been dated to between 1822 and 1762 BC.
and is now in the Rare Book and Manuscript Library
at Columbia University in New York.

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-mathem...nian-clay.html
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Unread 08-31-2017, 02:26 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula



While studying a 3,700-year-old tablet
from the ancient civilization of Babylon

Dr. Daniel Mansfield and his team
at the University of New South Wales in Australia

found evidence
that the Babylonians were doing something astounding: trigonometry!

Most historians have credited the Greeks
with creating the study of triangles' sides and angles

but this tablet presents indisputable evidence
that the Babylonians were using the technique

1,500 years before the Greeks ever were.
Mansfield and his team are, understandably, incredibly proud



http://www.distractify.com/omg/2017/08/28/13BnNP/babylonian-stone-tablet?utm_content=inf_10_53_2&tse_id=INF_10da2670 8bf511e7a7253d7eefa2109b







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Unread 09-01-2017, 03:00 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula


3700-year old Babylonian Tablet
Confirms
Pythagoras DID NOT INVENT the Theorem Bearing His Name

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...theorem-021581

Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322:
A new understanding of the OB tablet Plimpton 322

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L24GzTaOll0
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Unread 09-02-2017, 07:45 AM
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Smile Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

3700-year old Babylonian Tablet
Confirms
Pythagoras DID NOT INVENT the Theorem Bearing His Name

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...theorem-021581

Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322:
A new understanding of the OB tablet Plimpton 322

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L24GzTaOll0
No surprise to me, using the Tropical Age motif regarding the Western historical-line.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 10:47 AM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula

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Unread 09-02-2017, 01:18 PM
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula





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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula


Babylonians and Sumerians
contributed some of the most important discoveries and achievements.
Not only did Sumerians have a complicated law system (including juries)
medicine (including invasive procedures)
ships and navigation
but more remarkably, an amazingly advanced knowledge of astronomy.
Astronomy began with the first settlements of agricultural societies.
Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in what is today Iraq
was the birthplace of civilization almost 10,000 years ago.
It is in ancient Sumeria that we find the oldest records of the study of astronomy.
Babylon and Assyria were later civilizations in the same geographic area
and inherited the Sumerians' astronomical traditions
and many of their myths and legends surrounding the skies.
Kingdoms of Sumeria Published on 7 April 2018
Ancient Sumerian Cuneiform DOCUMENTARY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnXAMYC4BPw
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Re: Ancient Babylonian Sky Watchers Invented Advanced Scientific Astronomical Calcula



“......regards Mesopotamian influence on Graeco-Roman astral science,
Neugebauer's 1975 views have been falsified,
as a result of papyrus material from Egypt.
Neugebauer's 1975 view 1975 was, influence was minimal,
but he radically altered his view by late 80's.
So now Hellenistic Astral Science is a term
understood as: 'Babylonian Astral Science In The Hellenistic Period'
- albeit often written in Greek/other cursive scripts.
The discipline had been taken up by Hellenes,
making important contributions to its various manifestations,
but despite its being attributed to Yavanasm 'Ionians',
or Greeks by the Indians,
even in India the core of the discipline after c. C.E. 300 remained Mesopotamian.....”

source: David Brown THE INTERACTIONS OF ANCIENT ASTRAL SCIENCE
with contributions by Jonathon Ben-Dov, Harry Falk, Geoffrey Lloyd,
Raymond Mercier, Antonio Panaino, Joachim Quack, Alexandra von Lievenm, Michio Yano
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