Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

Oddity said:

Fair enough, but bad spelling doesn't seem to stop most people from posting.

On a personal note, and I may not be the only one, when I see someone saying 'A exalts B', I assume that they're doing Frawley style receptions, even though I probably shouldn't.

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Most likely they are.

I actually use Frawley's reception. I do like them better

Dirius said:

Most likely they are.

I actually use Frawley's reception. I do like them better

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And I think that Frawley's receptions owe a lot to Olivia Barclay's 'mistranslation' of Lilly - not to knock her, I would have done worse, I'm certain.

It also brings up some interesting questions, cos you use them, Rafaella uses them, John Frawley uses them and while I disagree with him about many matters astrological, he is certainly competent to read a chart. As are you and Rafaella.

The whole exalts, loves, hates thing makes me crazy when I see it, though.

Oddity said:

And I think that Frawley's receptions owe a lot to Olivia Barclay's 'mistranslation' of Lilly - not to knock her, I would have done worse, I'm certain.

It also brings up some interesting questions, cos you use them, Rafaella uses them, John Frawley uses them and while I disagree with him about many matters astrological, he is certainly competent to read a chart. As are you and Rafaella.

The whole exalts, loves, hates thing makes me crazy when I see it, though.

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Well there are 2 things that can be debated about Frawley's reception. The first one is as you mention the concept of "love/hate" and the other one is the implication of who has the powers over the other. I was actually hoping that some day we would open this debate, given that it is one of the most interesting ones in horary technique.

The first one, which makes you mad, I actually understand why it bothers you.

The problem is rather that people take too literally the example provided by Frawley on that sense. The explanation of Love (rulership), Infatuation (exaltation), Friendship (triplicity), etc., is just an example of the different "degrees" of afinity for one planet in a sense, so the reader can understand why rulership is in a way stronger than triplicity, and that, which does translate well when relating it to the affinity for the significators when places in rulership or triplicity.

For love horary, it does work well though. Many times the particular interest from querent/quesited can be taken from this line of thinking.

But anyone that progresses into more advance methods, can eventually realise that the concept of a planet "loving" another planet, has more to do with the planet being ruled by the other (or received in his dignity), which makes up the hierarchy in the chart.

Dirius said:

Yes in relationship questions (at least in my opinion) it is pretty straightfoward:

L7 exalts L1 = quesited likes querent a lot.

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I thought it was the other way around. That that L7 is being received by L1, and so L1 doing the receiving or ("entertaining", like a party at your house, as I put it in my mind) means that L1 likes L7 a great deal??

Let's go back to sun in Libra and Saturn in Sag, and pretend it's a day chart, and those are our significators. Just to try to keep some continuity, ok?

The sun is detrimented, and it's in Saturn's house. Saturn receives the sun by exaltation, and sun receives Saturn by triplicity.

Ok, that's a start.

Is there an aspect? We'll put Saturn at 10 Sag and sun at 8 Libra. Yes, they're sextile.

This gives Saturn the ability to do something for the sun, and the reception by triplicity makes the sun somewhat more open to that than it might otherwise be.

So who likes who? Well, the sun is applying, moving faster than Saturn, so we can adjudge that the sun is probably the fonder.

Forget geometry for a moment. If sun rules 1 and we find Saturn there, then Saturn may be the fonder - he is in the sun's house. If we found sun in 7, sun might be the fonder, as he's in Saturn's house.

Reception is willingness. Aspect is ability to act. Who loves the best (which is NOT the issue in most love horaries, the issue is will you get together), if it can be determined at all, is more determined by planetary application or house (opposed to sign) position. At least that's the way I've seen it work out.

Since this topic specifically addresses receptions involving Sun in Libra with Saturn I would like to propose a particular configuration found in a love horary. The querent has asked, “Does he still love me? - Will there be contact?”

The chart is Leo Rising. Sun is in Libra applying a square to Saturn in Capricorn located in the querent’s fifth house. There is no other aspect to Saturn in this chart except for L1s impending application.

What is Saturn willing-for in this case, L1 in its fall, in the question proposed by the querent? Additionally, what does it relay to the astrologer when a signifactor is Saturn to begin with?

If the sun and Saturn are in an applying square relationship, there's likely to be some contact, but the matter probably will not work out. (I think this is from William Lilly.)

Saturn is typically Bad News, but its ill effects are somewhat mitigated when Saturn is domiciled (happening now) or when Saturn is somehow appropriate to the question that is asked. For example, if the question is about grandpa rather than a lover.