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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 02-26-2012, 08:56 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
In calculating the Foundation ("Basis" or "Pillar"), we find that the early Islamic-transitional era practitioners (who seem to have used this Lot much more frequenty than the earlier Greco/Romans did) gave reversed formula for day/night: eg, the day formula was asc+POS-POF, while the night formula was asc+POF-POS; so the significator and trigger elements, reversed for diurnal vs nocturnal nativities.
In my own use of the "Foundation" ("Basis"), which I have applied for synastry evaluation purposes (which I have given a few examples of in posts to some synastry questions here on AW) I stick to only one formula, regardless of day or night, and that forumla is asc+POS-POF.
I agree as to dirunal formulas in general...possibly overall...Oh my, then I applied a nocturnal formula!!?!...I wonder what that might other wise be the 'Part' of,,,as per a 'Fortuna' ~ 'Spirit', like comparison?... I am going to pose this one to my clairvoyant friend and see what she comes up with.
It's been a 'slice', ya' all. Thanks for the edification!

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Unread 02-28-2012, 03:56 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that at least one member of the forum will be curious as to what I derived for the chart I've been 'championing' as being that of a certain well known and very controversial person in Biblical history.
By the formula Dr. Farr says is diurnal, i.e. Asc. + Part of Spirit - Part of Fortune, I get 25* Libra 36'. The Sabain Symbol for this degree, i.e. the 26th of Libra is certainly one that 'fits the profile' if this particular formula does actually reveal what has been defined here in this thread.
The 'nocturnal formula', produces 05* Virgo 50'.
Considering that my diurnal Part calcs. to 01* Taurus 33' and what the Sabian Symbol that is found for the 2nd degree of Taurus is and that the nocturnal formula produces, 02* Gemini 47', I would agree with Dr. Farr and stick with my general rule of thumb when dealing with Parts/Lots which call for reversal of formulae depending of whether it is night or day. That being to only use the 'Day Formulas' for all Parts regardless of time of day.
I consider the Symbolism found at these diurnal charts to be that of a 'Basis of Being'. The nocturnal formula would then have to be something indicative of that is the antonym of that...of ones 'Basis'.
Anyone that is curious/interested [that one person I know that is reading this anyways] can read the symbols I identified above for them self and see what I mean.
[I apologize to the 'Trads' here, but I'm only giving the link to the Sabian Symbols site {Free, no charge...} ... while I did talk about them I didn't recite once from Rudhyars text nor did I post a single word of description or paraphrase any definitions.]
Sabian Symbols site:
http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Sy...rgo%201-15.htm
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  #28  
Unread 05-06-2012, 03:10 PM
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Look for this:

1. Seek the Lot of Fortune and note whether it is either angular (in the 1st, 10th, Seventh, Fourth) or in the house of the Good Spirit (11th or 5th). If Fortune is found in any of those houses, take a note.
(Find the Lot of Fortune and determine whether it is angular, or if it culminates from the
Ascendant. Culminate means to count ten houses away. Or, if it culminates from the Lot of
Fortune . That’s our first, ‘ooh, something’s going on here.’ As an addendum to that, if you see
the Lot of Fortune in these houses, you will start to get interested. In any house, the Lot of
Fortune can show great fortune, but in these particular houses, it tends to be a marker or kind
of like a sign post. 1st house, 10th house, Seventh house, Fourth house, Eleventh House, Fifth
House. In general those are the ‘good’ houses, the productive houses of the chart.)


2. If the ruler of the Lot of Fortune culminates – that means if it is ten houses away from the Lot of Fortune or the Ascendant.

3. If the ruler of the Lot of Spirit culminates from the Lot of Fortune, or the
Ascendant, but most specifically from the Lot of Fortune.

4. If the ruler of the Exaltation is culminating from the Lot of Spirit or the
Ascendant.

5. If the ruler of the Spirit is on the Fortune, and the ruler of the Fortune is on the Spirit.

6. If the ruler of the Lot of Basis is with the Lot of Fortune that creates – not
gigantically notable but notable nonetheless.
If the ruler of the Basis is on the Lot of
Fortune , or the Spirit, if it’s on either of these lots – that’s good.

7. If the ruler of the fortune is on the Spirit, the ruler of Spirit is on the Basis
and the ruler of Basis is on the fortune.

8. If all four of fortune, Spirit, Exaltation, Basis are exalted or in their own
domicile – or even just two of the four.

9. If there is an exalted planet on the Lot of Fortune , Spirit, Basis, Exaltation, it creates notable genitures. Exalted planets on any of the lots but especially the Lot of Fortune and the lot of Exaltation.

10. If a benefic is with the ruler of the Lot of Fortune. If Jupiter is exalted it’s even better.
Omnisphericus! I would like to ask a few questions if you don't mind ?

1. My LOF is in 10th house in Cancer sign

2. Ruler is the Moon, Capricorn in detriment but trine Mars as Mars' exaltation sign less than 2 degrees trine, Moon sextile Mercury, Mars sextile Mercury.

3-10...I am not quite sure. I post my chart here instead!!

Attachment 29283

I am new to Arabic Parts, currently exploring them
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  #29  
Unread 05-06-2012, 07:37 PM
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Omnisphericus! I would like to ask a few questions if you don't mind ?

1. My LOF is in 10th house in Cancer sign

2. Ruler is the Moon, Capricorn in detriment but trine Mars as Mars' exaltation sign less than 2 degrees trine, Moon sextile Mercury, Mars sextile Mercury.

3-10...I am not quite sure. I post my chart here instead!!

Attachment 29283

I am new to Arabic Parts, currently exploring them
In this method Whole Signs are assumed.
Your Fortune would be in the 11th Sign.
Your Moon is in 7th from Fortune and that is good - it is angular. It is in 5th from Ascendant = the house of Good Fortune.
Spirit is in 5th from Fortune and its Ruler - Mars in 1st or in 11th from Fortune - the House of Acquisitions.
These are not bad positions, you need to calculate the Basis and Lot of Exaltation and match these two with the Spirit and Fortune and their rulers.
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  #30  
Unread 05-06-2012, 11:18 PM
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
In this method Whole Signs are assumed.
Your Fortune would be in the 11th Sign.
Your Moon is in 7th from Fortune and that is good - it is angular. It is in 5th from Ascendant = the house of Good Fortune.
Spirit is in 5th from Fortune and its Ruler - Mars in 1st or in 11th from Fortune - the House of Acquisitions.
These are not bad positions, you need to calculate the Basis and Lot of Exaltation and match these two with the Spirit and Fortune and their rulers.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayAustin View Post
Basis - Ascendant + Fortuna - Lot of Spirit...

Exaltation -- Depends on whether the chart is diurnal, or nocturnal. If by day, this is the amount of whole signs away from the sun's position to aries, if by night, the amount of whole signs away the moon is from taurus (always counting the sign you start at). Then, the amount of whole signs away from the ascendant (wherever the asc is, not the fortune first house) is the native's place of exaltation.
Use these method to calculate?

BTW, since you mentioned about whole sign housing then I remembered several members in the forum also recommended whole sign housing system..Man! I love whole sign housing now because the interpretation is far more accurate than Placidus (IMO!). Apparently whole sign system is the oldest system. I came from Chinese astrology background, like Vedic we also use whole sign system. The chart style we used look exactly the same as the south Indian Chart style. Thanks!
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  #31  
Unread 12-23-2013, 03:39 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

This is a great post thank you Omnisphericus
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  #32  
Unread 12-23-2013, 04:10 PM
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Re: Calculations of the Lots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Lot of Fortuna:
Asc + Moon - Sun (by day)
Asc + Sun - Moon (by night)
I am night born 3:45 am,I was in first quarter moon I think that make my Part in my 4th house,all people born during first quarter moon has 4th house POF,my part of fortune is in Scorpio 2°40,it ruler pluto is is 27°59 socrpio moving toward the 5th house (3 degree away),It conjunct moon 7 deg,and contra parallel sun/venus

Quote:
Lot of Spirit
Asc + Sun - Moon (by night)
Asc + Moon - Sun (by night)
With POF in scorpio,that make my POS is in taurus 9°34 in the 10th house,it ruler venus is in the second house conjunct my sun

Quote:
Lot of Basis
Asc + Lot of Fortuna - Lot of Spirit
My lot of basis is in leo 6°24 tightly conjunct my ASC,it contrapallel the moon,the ruler Of LOB sun is in virgo conjunct venus

Quote:
Pars Hyleg
Asc + Moon - SAN (syzygy, the last lunation prior birth).
My Pars of hyleg is in scorpio 9°39 opposite my POS

Quote:
Exaltation
The amount of signs from the placement of the Sun to the Aries, then that number of signs added to the Ascendant (by day).
The same but instead of the Sun and Aries, you go with the Moon and Taurus (places of exaltation).
Day Lot = Asc. + 19 Ar - Su; Night Lot = Asc. + 3 Ta - Mo

Is in 03'40 capricorn in the sixth house,it ruler saturn is in the 9th house only
1'55' degree

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  #33  
Unread 12-23-2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

QUOTE

The study of fortune and destiny in the chart has been recovered from the works of Vettius Valens
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

THE FIVE HIDDEN PILLARS OF FATE: FORTUNE AND DESTINY IN ASTROLOGY by Antoine Garth

In this study we consult the second century astrologer
to return to an astrology not known since his time
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6956746/Fi...y-in-Astrology
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  #34  
Unread 12-24-2013, 04:05 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

The Basis was also known as the "Foundation" of the horoscope, and was used during Islamic transitional era times, upon through the time of Guido Bonatti; use of this Lot rapidly disappeared (unfortunately) during the Renaissance time: I consider this Lot, together with the Pars Hyleg and Part of Life, the central trilogy in any natal chart (with further additional input from the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit).
A "Foundation" chart can be erected by using the "Basis" (Foundation) as the denominator of the 1st house, the rest of the chart being turned around that point.
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  #35  
Unread 01-17-2014, 04:21 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ram View Post
Ive been researching these points a bit lately. Are there any good books on the parts of spirit and fortune?

Try L. Weber's "Arabian Parts Decoded", and J. Hill's booklet "Part of Fortune in Astrology"; Zoller's "The Arabic Parts", though now dated, is important for a philosophical understanding of the Lots: the Weber and Hill books are more for practical applications and delineations...
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  #36  
Unread 01-17-2014, 04:37 AM
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
In this method Whole Signs are assumed.
Your Fortune would be in the 11th Sign.
Your Moon is in 7th from Fortune and that is good - it is angular. It is in 5th from Ascendant = the house of Good Fortune.
Spirit is in 5th from Fortune and its Ruler - Mars in 1st or in 11th from Fortune - the House of Acquisitions.
These are not bad positions, you need to calculate the Basis and Lot of Exaltation and match these two with the Spirit and Fortune and their rulers.
Wow it has been a while since I started learning Western astrology. Feeling a bit embarrassed reading my own newbie posts Approaching nearly 2 years later, I still find Omnispherius's post very inspiring and totally made a lot of sense to me particularly now after working more on derived house method.

I wonder how do we calculate Lot of Exaltation. What is Basis by the way?
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Unread 01-17-2014, 04:55 AM
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Basis is a Lot mentioned by Bonatti and extensively applied during the Islamic transitional era: it was looked at as part of the "fundamental natal Lot" basis of a horoscope, together with the Pars Hyleg and the Pars Vitae (Part of Life); the Basis (ascendant + POF - POS) can be used as the first house of a "Foundation" chart, perhaps even more effectively than the Fortuna chart (where the POF is used as the first house of the turned horoscope)
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  #38  
Unread 01-17-2014, 05:02 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

I always wish I could read all languages Latin, Greek, Arabic etc so I can learn their astrology first handed! Language is a huge barrier to learn advance astrology more than anything else!
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Unread 01-17-2014, 05:23 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Wooooow I google Part of Basis and Exaltation and found this Awsome member RayAustin who has not logged in for a very long time (shame). His thread is relevant to this thread so I will link it here.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13197

In his signature he even said:

Quote:
“Famous are those persons in whose Nativities the Moon receives the light of many Planets.”
—Cardanus.
I do remember reading Moon and it aspects from planets signify fame in one of my many books.
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Unread 01-17-2014, 05:26 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Yes a very interesting thread-I remember it well!
PS: Ray Austin is a "she"!
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  #41  
Unread 01-17-2014, 05:46 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

RayAustin said:

Quote:
A) If you were born with the sun under the horizon (i.e. : nocturnal chart, night birth)

Note what sign the moon is. Say it is in Cancer, for example.

Count the signs from Taurus (moon’s exaltation) to Cancer. Including your starting point in the count, you will get the number three (Taurus, Gemini, and Cancer).

Now, progress the ascendant three signs. If the ascendant happened to be Cancer as well, your sign of exaltation would be Virgo.

In Tina’s chart, the moon is in Gemini. We take two steps forwards from Taurus counter-clockwise and the same two steps forwards from the Ascendant, which makes her exaltation Virgo, and its ruler mercury.

If the moon happened to be in Aries, we can take two steps, but backwards, and then two steps backwards from the ascendant.
I am using this on myself to see what comes up. My Moon in Capricorn, 5th house. Taurus is the 5th sign of Capricorn Moon. But I soon got very confused for the rest of the manual steps when "she" used the teaching chart. Anyone happy to explain to me further? This is a very useful tool so I really want to learn how to do it!!!!!!
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Unread 01-17-2014, 05:51 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

I will note that these techniques are very similar to some of those used in the Nadi and Jaimini branches of Vedic astrology; note that in Vedic astrology in general (including mainstream "Parasara" Vedic) the concept of "multiple ascendants" is very popular, and allows viewing of a given chart from a number of variable perspectives: this is somewhat what Ray Austin is doing with this oldtime Western technique.
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Unread 01-17-2014, 01:36 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
I always wish I could read all languages Latin, Greek, Arabic etc so I can learn their astrology first handed! Language is a huge barrier to learn advance astrology more than anything else!
Even if language is a barrier to your personal reading of these ancient texts in arabic and Latin,
keep in mind Robert Schmidt, Robert Hand and Robert Zoller formed Project Hindsight
specifically to translate these ancient texts into English
which is a language you are increasingly proficient with even though it is not your native language
and we are fortunate to be able to read their published translations which are available from
http://www.projecthindsight.com/index1.html

BENJAMIN DYKES is another traditional astrology scholar
and translator of ancient texts
with several arabic translations to English on offer and AVAILABLE NOW:

Introductions to Traditional Astrology,
Paperback Sahl-Masha'allah,
Persian Nativities III,
Complete Bonatti Reprints:

http://www.bendykes.com/

These texts all contain valuable translated information on the Lots also known as Pillars of Fate
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Unread 01-17-2014, 01:43 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Thank you for posting these links. I always get very greedy on books, these will take me a while to really read through them and attempt to apply what I learned. I can always go back to this thread for the links!
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Unread 02-12-2014, 10:40 PM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
In calculating the Foundation ("Basis" or "Pillar"), we find that the early Islamic-transitional era practitioners (who seem to have used this Lot much more frequenty than the earlier Greco/Romans did) gave reversed formula for day/night: eg, the day formula was asc+POS-POF, while the night formula was asc+POF-POS; so the significator and trigger elements, reversed for diurnal vs nocturnal nativities.
In my own use of the "Foundation" ("Basis"), which I have applied for synastry evaluation purposes (which I have given a few examples of in posts to some synastry questions here on AW) I stick to only one formula, regardless of day or night, and that forumla is asc+POS-POF.
In Antoine Garth's book "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate" and also in some discussions on Skyscript forum I've found this instruction for finding Lot of Basis:

Find the "Basis" by determining the number of degrees in the shortest arc between the lots of Fortune and of Spirit, regardless of the direction of the signs. Add that number to the ascendant.
The Lot of Basis will be either Lot of Eros (pars Veneris) or Lot of Necessity (pars Mercurii). The lot which is under ASC/DSC axis is lot of Basis.

Does anyone know if this technique for finding Lot of Basis has historical background in writings of ancient authors?
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Unread 02-13-2014, 01:44 AM
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap View Post
In Antoine Garth's book "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate" and also in some discussions on Skyscript forum I've found this instruction for finding Lot of Basis:

Find the "Basis" by determining the number of degrees in the shortest arc between the lots of Fortune and of Spirit, regardless of the direction of the signs. Add that number to the ascendant.
The Lot of Basis will be either Lot of Eros (pars Veneris) or Lot of Necessity (pars Mercurii). The lot which is under ASC/DSC axis is lot of Basis.

Does anyone know if this technique for finding Lot of Basis has historical background in writings of ancient authors?
The following are three QUOTES from Antoine Garth's study "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate, Fortune and Destiny In Astrology" viewable entirely for FREE at http://www.scribd.com/doc/6956746/Fi...y-in-Astrology


'…...Antoine Garth, astrologer presents: YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE HOW THIS STARTS : THREE FATBLOWS TO THE MODERN HEAD Study of fortune and destiny has been recovered from Vettius Valens ANTHOLOGY. We consult the second century astrologer to return to an astrology not known since his time. This will force three major traumas upon us as astrologers:

Hard Hit #1

First, we are working within a deterministic system seeking to be privy to inscrutable workings of Fate. Ae modern thinkers may protest such a domination of symbol over lifestyle, and may wish to reject this idea as insufficiently allowing us to properly assign "Free Will" to our ego nature.....'



'…..Ironically, this system is useful for highlighting how Ego can prevent a more fortunate fate from occurring. i.e. The system of these five additional, calculated "lots" creates an astrological universe of its own revealing hidden aspect of the chart, our own role in it, and indicators we must follow in order to fulfill our destiny. Finding this spot can be the "Aha!" moment for clients as well. But we must first subject our modern astrological stance to three traumas to fully comprehend this perspective. Modern astrologers' problem with determinism revolves around adding man and his ability to choose into the cosmic equation, which includes unforeseen events and their impact....'



'…..All of the twists and turns in the story of life are either predetermined or up for grabs. I say fate and free-will can peacefully coexist, but we must also equal in the Law of Karma. Karma, the sanskrit word for action, not only includes the grand and all encompassing but also the mundane and every day. By understanding primarily that the planets are the instruments of fate, the astrologer can witness and make known each native's karmic "lot" or portion. The Lot of Fortune is the first key to revealing the native's hidden universe of apportionment, or, more simply stated, the native's lot in life....'
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Cap (02-13-2014)
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

SKYSCRIPT DISCUSSION
IS THE LOT OF BASIS UNDERESTIMATED?
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5490
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

Thanks JUPITERASC!

I have found it in Valens anthologies II book (p.38):

Do the same for the Lot of Basis: it is found by determining the distance from Fortune to Daimon <for day births> or from Daimon to Fortune <for night births>, then counting that distance from the Ascendant. /88K/ (The distance will not exceed the number 7 <=7 signs> for night or day births but it is necessary to take the distance from the nearest Lot to the other Lot.)
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Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Basis is a Lot mentioned by Bonatti and extensively applied during the Islamic transitional era: it was looked at as part of the "fundamental natal Lot" basis of a horoscope, together with the Pars Hyleg and the Pars Vitae (Part of Life); the Basis (ascendant + POF - POS) can be used as the first house of a "Foundation" chart, perhaps even more effectively than the Fortuna chart (where the POF is used as the first house of the turned horoscope)
can you tell me more about this part cause it conjunct my sun and venus
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Re: Lots = Pillars of Fate

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
I always wish I could read all languages Latin, Greek, Arabic etc so I can learn their astrology first handed! Language is a huge barrier to learn advance astrology more than anything else!
I am arabic and it my mother langauge i could help you
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