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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #126  
Unread 04-08-2012, 12:27 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".
It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.....
Amen to that.

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Unread 04-08-2012, 12:44 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".

It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.

Its very rare to be on the spot with months or days precisely as we were with the Whitney Houston's death.


For example, in the Elvis Prestley's chart, I've calculated 42 years give by the Alcocoden Jupiter, but in the same year when the 'protection' of the Alcocoden has finished Elvis entered the South Node Fridaria, and guess what, the South Node in the natal is in the 8th house. So this was meant to be the year in which Elvis would die.
But sometimes, after the protection of the Alkokoden is over, God gives the man some years plus till some other indicator indicates death.

We talk about the Life here - the most precious thing, once taken away is never getting back. (At least from the physical standpoint)
.
Exactly... well said Omnisphericus
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  #128  
Unread 04-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".
It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.

Its very rare to be on the spot with months or days precisely as we were with the Whitney Houston's death.
For example, in the Elvis Prestley's chart, I've calculated 42 years give by the Alcocoden Jupiter, but in the same year when the 'protection' of the Alcocoden has finished Elvis entered the South Node Fridaria, and guess what, the South Node in the natal is in the 8th house. So this was meant to be the year in which Elvis would die.
But sometimes, after the protection of the Alkokoden is over, God gives the man some years plus till some other indicator indicates death.
We talk about the Life here - the most precious thing, once taken away is never getting back. (At least from the physical standpoint).
what about scotty beckett and nicol williamson(off with 18 years)? could you try other methods ?

In your first post you have used the method of summary from all the authors (of what almost all authors agree), where have you found this method?

who are all the authors?

could you post Abu Ali's method? thanks Omnisphericus
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  #129  
Unread 04-11-2012, 08:07 PM
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Abu Ali's method

I think Steven Birchfield made the summary.

Abu Ali's summary:

For Hyleg:
1. The potential Hyleg must be angular or succedent
2. If the Sun, must be in a masculine sign or quarter (1,11,12,4,5,6)
3. If the Moon, must be in a feminine sign or quarter (1,2,3,7,8,9)
4. Must be aspected by one of it’s domicile, term exaltation, triplicity or decan rulers.
5. If the Part of Fortune is used it must be aspected by its domicile, exaltation or
term ruler (triplicity rulers don’t count)

For Alkokoden Abu Ali says pretty much the same as the other authors:
to find the planet which has most dignities in the place of the Hyleg and who is aspecting the Hyleg.
If there are more than one potential alkokodens (more than one are aspecting it), take the one who is nearest to the Hyleg (by Zodiacal State, instead of the aspect by degrees as Bonatti states).

The angular Alkokoden gives the major years, succedent - middle, and cadent = minor.

Abu Ali says that South Node in conjunction to the Alcocoden takes 1/4 of his years, while North Node adds 1/4 of the Alcocoden's years (Bonatti rejects the North Node adding, while he agree with the South Node taking).

Benefic in conjunction, sextile, trine, and strong in state gives its minor years; if its in medium strength adds its minor years as months; if in weak state adds its minor years as hours. (Just to note that Bonatti says that Benefic add years through opposition and square too while Abu Ali says that if in bad aspect neither add neither subtracts)

Malefic in square or opposition subtracts its minor years.
Malefic in good aspect neither add nor subtracts.

Mercury, if with fortunes, will add his minor years; with malefics, subtract his minor
years.

It seems out that Abu Ali suggest that if Hyleg is directed to some malefic body, that brings "Destruction to the native", and some think this means that this is so regardless the years of the Alcocoden.
I think this is true, and there is why we can't find the Alcocoden of some tragically died persons.
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  #130  
Unread 04-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: Abu Ali's method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
I think Steven Birchfield made the summary.

Abu Ali's summary:

For Hyleg:
1. The potential Hyleg must be angular or succedent
2. If the Sun, must be in a masculine sign or quarter (1,11,12,4,5,6)
3. If the Moon, must be in a feminine sign or quarter (1,2,3,7,8,9)
4. Must be aspected by one of it’s domicile, term exaltation, triplicity or decan rulers.
5. If the Part of Fortune is used it must be aspected by its domicile, exaltation or
term ruler (triplicity rulers don’t count)

For Alkokoden Abu Ali says pretty much the same as the other authors:
to find the planet which has most dignities in the place of the Hyleg and who is aspecting the Hyleg.
If there are more than one potential alkokodens (more than one are aspecting it), take the one who is nearest to the Hyleg (by Zodiacal State, instead of the aspect by degrees as Bonatti states).

The angular Alkokoden gives the major years, succedent - middle, and cadent = minor.

Abu Ali says that South Node in conjunction to the Alcocoden takes 1/4 of his years, while North Node adds 1/4 of the Alcocoden's years (Bonatti rejects the North Node adding, while he agree with the South Node taking).

Benefic in conjunction, sextile, trine, and strong in state gives its minor years; if its in medium strength adds its minor years as months; if in weak state adds its minor years as hours. (Just to note that Bonatti says that Benefic add years through opposition and square too while Abu Ali says that if in bad aspect neither add neither subtracts)

Malefic in square or opposition subtracts its minor years.
Malefic in good aspect neither add nor subtracts.

Mercury, if with fortunes, will add his minor years; with malefics, subtract his minor
years.

It seems out that Abu Ali suggest that if Hyleg is directed to some malefic body, that brings "Destruction to the native", and some think this means that this is so regardless the years of the Alcocoden.
I think this is true, and there is why we can't find the Alcocoden of some tragically died persons.
thanks Omnisphericus.

by Abu Ali, their hyleg is the sun.
nicol williamson alcocoden is saturn and scotty beckett alcocoden is mercury
scotty mercury is 48 years trine jupiter 60 years but he lived 39 years. nicol williamson saturn is 43.5 years but he lived 75 year.

primary directions?

scotty beckett
the hyleg sun is 10 libra directed to 28 libra mars, no death
directed to 13 scorpio south node
33 years but he lived 39 years.

nicol williamson hyleg sun is not directed to any malefics.

could you try other methods to find their correct hyleg and alcocoden ? i posted their date of birth etc in my earlier posts


elizabath taylor hyleg is moon
66.5 square jupiter (bonatti) 78.5 and 11 months
79.5 years, she died March 23, 2011,aged 79 and 1 month

who are all the authors of the hyleg and alcocoden methods?
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  #131  
Unread 04-13-2012, 08:56 PM
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Finding the Anareta

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrcolomba View Post
thanks Omnisphericus.

by Abu Ali, their hyleg is the sun.
nicol williamson alcocoden is saturn and scotty beckett alcocoden is mercury
scotty mercury is 48 years trine jupiter 60 years but he lived 39 years. nicol williamson saturn is 43.5 years but he lived 75 year.

primary directions?

scotty beckett
the hyleg sun is 10 libra directed to 28 libra mars, no death
directed to 13 scorpio south node
33 years but he lived 39 years.

nicol williamson hyleg sun is not directed to any malefics.

could you try other methods to find their correct hyleg and alcocoden ? i posted their date of birth etc in my earlier posts


elizabath taylor hyleg is moon
66.5 square jupiter (bonatti) 78.5 and 11 months
79.5 years, she died March 23, 2011,aged 79 and 1 month

who are all the authors of the hyleg and alcocoden methods?
Terrocolomba, try finding the Anareta.

The Method

Find the dispositor (all the rulers of the places including the 3 triplicity rulers) of these places:

- Ascendant
- Pars of Death (ASC + HC8 - MO)
- Lord of the Pars of Death
- 4th house
- Ruler of the 4th house
- The first triplicity ruler of the 4th house (you find its place and calculate its dispositors)
- The cusp on the 8th sign fron Sun.
- The ruler of the 8th sign from Sun.

The planet which gets most points in all these places is called the Anareta (The Killing Planet).
Once you know the Anareta, you check the Primary Directions of that planet to angles, especially AC, or to the Hyleg. Also directions to the planets in the 8th house in the horoscope, because they are natural representative of death by the accident placement in the house.

Check for example the chart of Sharon Tate.
Her Anareta is Mercury, and on the day she was killed, Mercury by direction conjucted the Cauda Draconis (South Node) in 8th. She was also in Firdaria Mercury period.
The profected ascendant was also in the 8th sign from the Sun.
Remember, the SUn is the natural giver of life, the Moon of body.

You need to get a good grip on all the techniques before you prepeare your self to judge death in the horoscope. It is not an easy thing and it is not a thing with which we can play.
Don't look all the proofs in the Hyleg and Alkokoden only. The technique is a tricky one and there is no general rule applied to all the cases.
You need to combine the techniques, this is the Art!
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  #132  
Unread 04-14-2012, 06:32 AM
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Re: Finding the Anareta

And I heartily second Omnisphericus emphasis! You need to combine the techniques!! You need to look at the results/indications of 2 or 3 approaches, before even attempting to approach a prognostication. And, all of these methods are part of advanced astrological practice, so one must get the basics and THEN go on to study and understand the more advanced material. That's just the way things are regarding this very complex area of astrological study (longevity, critical years approximations)...
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  #133  
Unread 04-16-2012, 02:25 AM
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Robert Zoller's Quote

Here is one very important quote from the great experience of the great astrologer Robert Zoller (Regarding Hyleg and Alcocoden):

Quote:
I have been working with this doctrine now for 20 years. I am convinced
that it was intended as an approximation of the length of the native’s life
rather than as a precise measure of life. The precise determination of the
length of life requires the application of Ptolemy’s Prorogation Method
(Tetrabiblos III.10), i.e. of the Primary Direction of the Apheta (killing point) to the Anaereta (Hyleg).
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  #134  
Unread 04-16-2012, 02:50 AM
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Bonatti's summary again

I'm still rereading Bonatti's material on finding the Hyleg and Alcocoden and trying to grasp this subject.
Zoller recommends to combine the method of Ptolemy and Bonatti.
To find the approximation given by the Alcocoden and then by direction to find the Killing Planet coming (when) on the Hyleg.

For day charts Bonatti says to look for the Sun in the 1st, 10th and 11th.
If in 7,8,9 it should be in Masculine Sign.

To be Hyleg it must receive an aspect by the 5 possible dispositors (domicile/exaltation/triplicities/term/face).

For the night chart you look for the Moon in angular or succedent house and in feminine sign. (I guess this is if its in house other then 1,10,11). But later on Bonatti says that the sex of the sign does not matter. Although it is good to be in masculine sign if in male chart or in feminine sign if in female chart.
Again, the rule for having an aspect from the dispositor is on.

Bonatti also makes an exception of the cadent houses allowing Moon to be Hyleg in the 3rd because it is the place of her Joy and because the Moon is foundation of the 3rd.

If Sun or Moon cannot be Hyleg, you look to the Syzygy to see if the geniture is Preventional (full moon prior the birth) or Conjunctional (new moon prior the birth).

If it is Preventional, you search for possible Hyleg in Part of Fortune.
If it is Conjunctional you look to the Ascending Degree and if its dispositors or the Moon are aspecting it (Moon because signifies the Body), then it can be Hyleg.

If none of this can be Hyleg, then you take the Pre-natal lunation degree to be Hyleg. And the same rule of the dispositors apsecting it is applied.

If you find the Hyleg who has more then one rulers aspecting it, you take the one who is more close by aspect or conjunction to it, to be Alcocoden.
And if they all aspect equally, you will take the one who is stronger in its own place and has dignity better then the other ones, to be the Alcocoden.

Quote:
“After you have determined the Hyleg and the Alcocoden, you are able
to determine the number of years of the native’s life.”
Says Bonatti.

Quote:
“The Hyleg signifies the source of life (Radicem Vitae) but the Alcocoden signifies the
number of its years. This is because the condition of life is received
from the Hyleg but the allotting of years from the Alcocoden. However
neither of these suffice for the giving of life to the native without the
other, just as a man, by himself, does not suffice for generating, so
neither does a woman by herself, alone, suffice for conceiving or
bearing. Indeed one is not able to bring forth without the other. The
Hyleg gives life formally, the Alcocoden gives it effectively.”
And about the end of life and how to find it once you had determined the Alcocoden and the (approximate!) years given by it, Bonatti says:

Quote:
And you will
see in which of those years the Hyleg may come to the bodies of the
malefics or to the places where they were in the nativity or to the square
aspect of them or the opposition or to cauda draconis or to the degree
in which it was in the nativity or to the square aspect of the place in
which the Moon was in the nativity or to the opposition of it giving to
each degree according to the degree of the region one year and unless
a benefic projects its rays to the term in which the Hyleg arrives to the
[place of the] impending malefic, it signifies that the native will die in
that year or month or day, indeed in the hour in which the arrival of
the Hyleg to the aforesaid places or to any one of them is perfected.”
Bonatti next says that if the Hyleg comes to the aforesaid places before the time given by the Alcocoden's years, then the native will have many impediments and troubles but eventually will not die (except because of his own error).

Last edited by Omnisphericus; 04-16-2012 at 02:54 AM.
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  #135  
Unread 04-17-2012, 05:23 PM
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Re: Robert Zoller's Quote

Quote:
I have been working with this doctrine now for 20 years. I am convinced
that it was intended as an approximation of the length of the native’s life
rather than as a precise measure of life. The precise determination of the
length of life requires the application of Ptolemy’s Prorogation Method
(Tetrabiblos III.10), i.e. of the Primary Direction of the Apheta (killing point) to the Anaereta (Hyleg).
Ptolemy’s hyleg and alcocoden calculation same as bonatti's?

how do you calculate the apheta(killing point)?


bonatti's
Name Darin, Bobby
born on 14 May 1936 at 05:28 (= 05:28 AM ) Place Manhattan, New York
Death by Heart Attack 20 December 1973 (Heart surgery, age 37, in Los Angeles)
Quote:
For the night chart you look for the Moon in angular or succedent house and in feminine sign. (I guess this is if its in house other then 1,10,11). But later on Bonatti says that the sex of the sign does not matter. Although it is good to be in masculine sign if in male chart or in feminine sign if in female chart.
Again, the rule for having an aspect from the dispositor is on.
if it doesn't matter, moon is the hyleg, mars the alcocoden 39.5 years

if it matters, sun is the hyleg, saturn or moon is the alcocoden, saturn is 43.5 years, moon is 25 jupiter sextile 37 years = correct but mars is square and if you subtract that it is not correct.
Quote:
And you will
see in which of those years the Hyleg may come to the bodies of the
malefics or to the places where they were in the nativity or to the square
aspect of them or the opposition or to cauda draconis or to the degree
in which it was in the nativity or to the square aspect of the place in
which the Moon was in the nativity or to the opposition of it giving to
each degree according to the degree of the region one year and unless
a benefic projects its rays to the term in which the Hyleg arrives to the
[place of the] impending malefic, it signifies that the native will die in
that year or month or day, indeed in the hour in which the arrival of
the Hyleg to the aforesaid places or to any one of them is perfected.”
progression or directions?
saturn is not directed or progressed to any and moon is directed to square cauda draconis but 40 degrees,he lived 37 years
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  #136  
Unread 04-17-2012, 05:34 PM
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Calculating the Anareta - the Killing Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrcolomba View Post
Ptolemy’s hyleg and alcocoden calculation same as bonatti's?
No, Ptolemy did not even had Alcocoden.
He was allowing Hyleg to be only in the upper hemisphere (above the earth).
His Hylegical (productive) places are only 1/10/11 and 7/9 if in masculine signs.
Once he found the Hyleg he than looked at the directions, when the Hyleg was directed to malefics, or when the killing planet (see bellow) was directed to the Hyleg or the angles (especially AC, because AC represents the Body).



Quote:
Originally Posted by terrcolomba View Post
how do you calculate the apheta(killing point)?
The method.
Calculate the dispositors of all these places:

1. Ascendant (5 for domicile ruler, 4 for exaltation ruler, 3 for all triplicity rulers, 2 for term, 1 for face).
2. Parth of Death (AC + HC8 - Moon)
3. Ruler of the Part of Death
4. 4th house
5. Ruler of the 4th house
6. Triplicity ruler of the 4th house (the first triplicity ruler).
7. 8th sign from the Sun
8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun

The planet that has most dignities in these places is Anareta or the Killing Planet.
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  #137  
Unread 04-17-2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Terrocolomba, you now have the methods in hand, you know the calculations and if you want to try the practical side of this art, post your process of calculation here in order for us to see how you found the Hyleg, the Alcocoden, and Anareta.
Step by step.
You are confusing me with your final examinations giving to us only the numbers of which I don't know how did you ever get them.
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  #138  
Unread 04-17-2012, 06:22 PM
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Example for Anareta in Sharon Tate's chart



Well, many of the traditional authors says that Anareta should be directed to the Hyleg or to the angles in order to find the years of death of the person.
But I found also to be true that if one has planets or points (as Nodes) in 8th house, than that place would naturally represents dangerous point, because the 8th and everything in it, naturally bears analogy to death.
This is not written in the old texts (that you should direct Anareta to the planets or points in 8th) as far as I'm aware, but it is a logical conclusion of my experience, and we will see that in practice in the following example.

Hyleg is the Ascendant, Alcocoden is Jupiter.
Jupiter because it is angular but retrograde would give the middle years: 45,5.
That is, Moon cadent would give only days or months.
Jupiter does not receive aspect neither by malefic nor by benefic.
So this is it, approximateli 46 years of life.
But she died on her 26th year of life.

I would add that the Ascendant and Jupiter (Hyleg and Alcocoden) are giving antiscia to Saturn and contra-antiscia to Mars. The both Malefics are in sign opposition and antiscia/contra-antiscia relationship with the Ascendant and Jupiter, i.e. Hyleg and Alcocoden.
Saturn is in cadent sign, and Valens says that the cadent Saturn is prone to accidents (add to that the Mars opposition).

But ok, lets now find the Anareta.

1. Ascendant in 22 Cancer
Moon 5 + 3 + 1 = 9
Jupiter 4 + 2 = 6
Venus 3
Mars 3

2. Part of Death in 24 Sag
Jupiter 5 + 3 = 8
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Mercury 2
Moon 1

3. Ruler of POD Jupiter in 18 Cancer
Moon 5 + 3 = 8
Jupiter 4
Venus 3
Mars 3
Mercury 2+1 = 3

4. 4th house in 9Libra
Venus 5
Saturn 4+3 = 7
Mercury 3+2+1 = 6
Jupiter 3

5. Ruler of the 4th house Venus in 20AQ
Saturn 5 + 3 = 8
Mercury 3+1 = 4
Juptier 3 + 2 = 5

6. Ruler of the 4th house triplicity Saturn in 5Gemini
Mercury 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
Saturn 3
Jupiter 3 + 1 = 4

7. 8th sign from the Sun 11Virgo
Mercury 5 + 4 = 9
Venus 3 + 2 + 1 = 6
Mars 3
Moon 3

8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun, Mercury in 3 AQ
Saturn 5 + 3 = 8
Mercury 3 + 2 = 5
Jupiter 3
Venus 1

Overall:
Moon 21
Jupiter 33
Venus 13
Mars 9
Sun 3
Mercury 39
Saturn 29

Mercury is Anareta!

Now we look for the directions (because we already know the time of her death) in 1969 (murdered 9 august 1969).



These are the directions.
As you can see, in the 2nd and 6th month she had Mars directed in opposition to the Ascendant, but Mercury was directed to the conjunction with Cauda Draconis in the 8th house in 8th month two days off the murder.
Cauda Draconis was regarded as Malefic by the traditional authors.

Mercury is Anareta (the Killing planet) in her chart and coming in 8th in Cauda Draconis, did 'killed' her.
It is a sad example, but our Art is of that kind, can show the beautiful times but also the death - inescapable thing for every human being.

Last edited by Omnisphericus; 04-17-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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  #139  
Unread 04-17-2012, 07:18 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Name Darin, Bobby
born on 14 May 1936 at 05:28 (= 05:28 AM ) Place Manhattan, New York
Death by Heart Attack 20 December 1973 (Heart surgery, age 37, in Los Angeles)

lets find the Anareta.

rulership 5 points
exaltation 4
triplicity rulers 3 points
term 2
face 1

1. Ascendant in 17 taurus
Moon 3 +1 =4
Jupiter 4 + 2 = 6
Venus 5 + 3 = 8
Mars 3

2. Part of Death in 7 pisces
Jupiter 5
venus 4 + 2 + 3 = 9
mars 3
Saturn 1
Moon 3

3. Ruler of POD Jupiter in 22 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
saturn 2 + 1 +3 = 6
Jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3

4. 4th house in 28 cancer
Venus 3
moon 5 + 1 +3 = 9
mars 3
Saturn 2
Jupiter 4

5. Ruler of the 4th house moon in 25 aquarius
no exaltation in aquarius
Saturn 5 +3 =8
Mercury 3
Jupiter 2 +3 = 5
moon 1

6. Ruler of the 4th house triplicity mars in 0gemini
Mercury 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
Saturn 3
Jupiter 3 + 1 = 4

7. 8th sign from the Sun 15 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3
saturn 3
Mercury2
Moon 1

8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun, Jupiter in 22 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
saturn 2 + 1 +3 = 6
Jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3

Overall:
Moon 18
Jupiter 48
Venus 20
Mars 9
Sun 9
Mercury15
Saturn 26

jupiter is Anareta!

Now we look for the directions (because we already know the time of his death) 20 December 1973

i couldn't find anything, do you have any malefic aspects in his chart in 1973 your software Omnisphericus?
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  #140  
Unread 04-29-2012, 01:17 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Omnisphericus, http://starlightknight.wordpress.com...he-presidents/ is an interesting and useful link I noticed on another thread provided by Wintersprite1 with discussion of Hyleg & Alcocoden
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  #141  
Unread 05-25-2012, 09:34 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

This is my chart. I am a night born person, so i start with Moon.

-Moon in Virgo is in 10th house which is an Hylegical house.
-Mercury is the ruler of the Moon which is the natural ruler of Virgo
-Triplicity ruler is Moon
-Exaltation ruler is Mercury.
-Decan ruler is Mercury
-and Mercury makes good aspects except of that square with Part of Fortune.

So, my Hyleg is Moon and my Alcocoden is Mercury, the position and aspects of mercury gives me the highest years of protection ???

But.... Mercury is retro and uner Sun's beam, so its not in his best. So, mercury gives me the middle years of protection?

please tell me if my calculation are right
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  #142  
Unread 12-17-2012, 03:49 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
4. I think there is a rational problem, as well. How good are any of these methods in predicting mass deaths, where the deaths of hundreds or even thousands of people are nearly simultaneous? If a jumbo jet blows up (cf. the Lockerbie, Scotland crash), if thousands of people are swept away by a tsunami (as has happened in recent years in Southeast Asia and Japan) or when atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it just beggers credulity to think that each of these victims' alcocodens and hylegs got simultaneously activated.
That's easy to say. HOWEVER, since ninety thousand people perished in Hiroshima and approximately seventy four thousand people died in Nagasaki then that is a combined total of one hundred and sixty four thousand natal charts to analyze - including verification of time of birth. Clearly then a belief or disbelief that 'each of these victim's alcocodens and hylegs got simultaneously activated' is neither provable nor disprovable. That's because no one has delineated every single one of all of those one hundred and sixty four thousand charts

Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.

An important factor to note is that, some survived

Astrologers who have looked at the charts of survivors of large scale disasters such as plane crashes, explosions and so on have found chart patterns indicating that they had 'above average good fortune' - there were of course survivors of the bombings of Hiroshima as well as of Nagasaki and if anyone has any research material regarding any studies of their natal charts that would be relevant


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  #143  
Unread 12-17-2012, 04:29 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Have you got an event chart for the founding of Hiroshima, then? Why not post it and analyse it according to your methods?

In the meantime, I'll rely on simple common sense.
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  #144  
Unread 12-17-2012, 11:53 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Have you got an event chart for the founding of Hiroshima, then?
Posted elsewhere on this forum are comments that you are a retired academic with an academic interest in astrology and therefore are likely aware of such a chart and may well have studied one in the past. Furthermore fwiw the timing of the dropping of the weapon of mass destruction that was dropped on Hiroshima is well documented. However, just in case as you seem interested then here's a link that gives precise timing for you or anyone with a similar interest, so that you or anyone in fact, may create and view such a chart if inclined to do so

'....Hiroshima 広島市 is the capital of Hiroshima Prefecture, and the largest city in the Chūgoku region of western Honshu, the largest island of Japan. It is best known as the first city in history to be targeted by a nuclear weapon when the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped an atomic bomb aka a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION on it at 8:15 A.M. on August 6, 1945, near the end of World War II. Its name 広島 means "Wide Island"....' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima

and these links are to recorded documented recollections of survivors as well as recollections of the perpetrators of the mass destruction of Hiroshima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4LQaWJRDg and also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19kvUiHvAE
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Why not post it and analyse it according to your methods?
Astrological analysis of the event chart for Hiroshima is scarcely unusual and in fact an online search would rapidly provide a vast quantity of astrological opinions on that occurrence for anyone with a need to peruse them
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
In the meantime, I'll rely on simple common sense.
JMO it seems likely we all rely on our own individual ideas of 'simple common sense' and obviously 'simple common sense' is a relative term
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  #145  
Unread 12-28-2012, 07:53 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.
And that is the key right there, not analysing 90,000 charts for hylegs, alchocodens, primary directions that could have prematurely cut the alchocodens' years short, etc. etc.

Taking a page from Avraham the Spaniard, otherwise known as ibn Ezra, one of the first things he tells astrologers is that astrology does not contravene natural law. He also explains that a personal chart falls under quite a hierarchy of other considerations. From Nativities and Revolutions:

...The third way is the rule that comes from the effect of the Great Conjunction on each country. Thus, if within the influence of the Conjunction upon the nations war is supposed to befall a certain nation, even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....

There's quite a lot more, but no need to quote all of it, one hopes.
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  #146  
Unread 12-28-2012, 09:17 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
And that is the key right there, not analysing 90,000 charts for hylegs, alchocodens, primary directions that could have prematurely cut the alchocodens' years short, etc. etc.

Taking a page from Avraham the Spaniard, otherwise known as ibn Ezra, one of the first things he tells astrologers is that astrology does not contravene natural law. He also explains that a personal chart falls under quite a hierarchy of other considerations. From Nativities and Revolutions:

...The third way is the rule that comes from the effect of the Great Conjunction on each country. Thus, if within the influence of the Conjunction upon the nations war is supposed to befall a certain nation, even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....

There's quite a lot more, but no need to quote all of it, one hopes.
I agree that ibn Ezra sums up the matter

- particularly

QUOTE:
'......even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....'
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  #147  
Unread 08-24-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Hello!

My Alcocoden is Mercury in X.house Virgo. Mercury is sextil with Saturn, and some program show Mercury - Sun (X. house Virgo) conjuction, some program not show that. Mercury is retrograde. So this is 46, or 78 years??

Thanks

Mona
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  #148  
Unread 08-24-2013, 07:32 PM
babec babec is offline
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Sorry, 48 or 76-78? years.
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  #149  
Unread 10-10-2013, 07:23 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

From the other thread Culpeper mentioned this thread had brought me here.

Now finding Hyleg the most dignified planet in my natal chart is a bit tricky as normally I would choose between Mercury or Jupiter. But perhaps Mars is the One. Mars actually rules my Sun, Mercury, Saturn, 3rd and 8th house while mutual reception with Mercury and exalted by Moon.

What do you guys think?

So far through the good god of Googleldo, I found these readings.

http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/Hyleg.pdf
http://www.greekmedicine.net/medical...the_Hyleg.html
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/hyleg.html

As per palmistry and my Chinese astrology and 8 characters reading. I expect to live a relatively long life, but with ongoing health illness due to complete lack of fire element in the 8 characters which signifies the heart and part of circulation same as Western Leo. Which in natal Leo is the 12th house cusp. Saturn does conjunct Sun in lose aspect but under combustion, and ruler of the 5th and 6th. I have always have heart issues, if I ran a little longer distance my vision will turn golden yellow due to hypoxia and usually go to 120 bates a minute. The worst situation was when I was in severe period pain with heavy bleeding it cause my blood pressure dropped to 80/40s range with heart rate of 140s I almost collapsed at work. Had many chest pain and palpation every couple of weeks due to WPW syndrome.

I think learning about Hyleg and Alcocoden will enlighten my understanding of medical astrology.
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Last edited by poyi; 10-24-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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  #150  
Unread 10-11-2013, 07:00 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Can either Uranus or Pluto be an alcocoden in a chart?
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