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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 12-31-2011, 07:27 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

I read it. I know what sect is. It seems that the Moon and possibly Mercury are the only planets out of sect. Mercury is very masculine on my chart because it rises about as much before the Sun as it can, but it's also conjunct Venus.

Something I find weird is that the waxing Moon is masculine and the waning Moon is feminine. The waxing Moon is always occidental and occidental planets are usually more feminine.

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  #27  
Unread 12-31-2011, 07:55 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

- that's why hemisphere is more important as you noticed

(a) The Sun is always in Sect in a Day Chart
(b) The Moon is always in Sect in a Night Chart

If hemisphere is more important than chart sect and the Moon is below the horizon in a night chart, then the Moon would not be in sect. Am I getting confused?

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-31-2011 at 07:59 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:04 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

So you're saying the condition of a chart being a day/night chart is more important? Hmm... Differing opinions, how unusual... [/sarcasm]
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  #29  
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:21 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

What if somenone has the Sun exactly on the Ascendant? Would their chart be neutral?
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  #30  
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:49 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

it might be dr. farr was referring to the sign position of your sun... by sign - your sun is in sect, but this is considered the 3rd consideration on sect... if a planet is in sect in all these different ways, they are considered very powerful.. i believe the word hayz is used to describe such a planet..

3 - air and fire - masculine
water and earth - feminine
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  #31  
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:57 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

From my understanding, dr. farr was referring to the fact that my Sun is in the same hemisphere as the Sun. When he said that "the Sun is always in sect," he means that the Sun is always in the same hemisphere as the Sun. The question I'm asking is whether the total day/night condition of the chart or the hemisphere relative to the Sun is the first or second consideration of sect. dr. farr seems to say that it's the first and JA seems to say that it's the second. dr. farr says that my Moon is the only planet out of sect on my chart and JA says that it's in sect.
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  #32  
Unread 12-31-2011, 09:07 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

well you have my list on the thread earlier that includes the numbers on it which reflects my understanding of the order of importance to arriving at the sect of the chart and planets.
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  #33  
Unread 12-31-2011, 09:16 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Something I find weird is that the waxing Moon is masculine and the waning Moon is feminine. The waxing Moon is always occidental and occidental planets are usually more feminine.
(atleast10characters)
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  #34  
Unread 12-31-2011, 09:50 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Our solar system has only one Sun. Your Sun can only be in the hemisphere in which it is located - after all, where else could it be?

When dr. farr said 'the Sun is always in sect' either he was speaking as dr. ANARCHY and using eclectic terminology OR he meant to convey that 'the sun is always in sect in a day/diurnal chart

...

And your Moon is a nocturnal planet that is in the upper hemisphere and away from your Aquarian Sun
No blue ellipsis for you. In fact, I'm going to make it red.

There is only one Sun so obviously it's always in the same hemisphere as itself. Since the Sun is a diurnal planet that is in sect in the same hemisphere as the Sun and the Sun is always in the same hemisphere in the Sun because it is the Sun itself, then therefore the Sun is always in sect by hemisphere. You can't argue with logic except with other kinds of logic that aren't relevant.

Also, no, my Moon is under the horizon with my Sun. It's in the 6th house in Placidus and equal. Go look again.

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-31-2011 at 09:57 PM.
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  #35  
Unread 12-31-2011, 10:06 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

The Moon is below the horizon and out of sect. Mercury is above the horizon and out of sect. Venus is above the horizon and out of sect.

Edit: more later. g2g now
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  #36  
Unread 12-31-2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Since Hellenistic astrologers use whole sign houses and clearly since you are using Placidus and Equal House, then the Hellenestic delineations I have previously provided cannot be illustrated correctly therefore I have transferred my posts to the "Hellenistic Delineation" thread in Traditional Astrology for those who are interested
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 12-31-2011 at 10:25 PM.
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  #37  
Unread 12-31-2011, 10:38 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

here is a link to a really nice site that might help some better understand this issue of 'sect'.
http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/
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  #38  
Unread 12-31-2011, 10:51 PM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?


there is also more information on the concept of 'Sect' at the "Hellenistic Delineation" thread at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=43920

and a link to good site with article explaining "The Astrology of Sect" http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2...ology-of-sect/
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 12-31-2011 at 11:00 PM.
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  #39  
Unread 01-01-2012, 03:52 AM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Since Hellenistic astrologers use whole sign houses and clearly since you are using Placidus and Equal House, then the Hellenestic delineations I have previously provided cannot be illustrated correctly therefore I have transferred my posts to the "Hellenistic Delineation" thread in Traditional Astrology for those who are interested
I can't use two house systems. I mentioned those house systems because they logically imply that the Moon is below the horizon, which you didn't seem to get via more direct methods. This thread is in "Traditional Astrology." I think you were a bit absent-minded to read that. I use whole signs since I'm too dumb to figure out how house rulership works in any other system. Did the Hellenists define the horizon as the sign cusp instead of the physical horizon?

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 01-01-2012 at 04:08 AM.
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  #40  
Unread 01-01-2012, 09:14 AM
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Re: Day or Night Chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
I can't use two house systems. I mentioned those house systems because they logically imply that the Moon is below the horizon, which you didn't seem to get via more direct methods. This thread is in "Traditional Astrology." I think you were a bit absent-minded to read that. I use whole signs since I'm too dumb to figure out how house rulership works in any other system. Did the Hellenists define the horizon as the sign cusp instead of the physical horizon?
When you mentioned the use of Placidus and Equal House I did think you were not using Hellenistic delineations - Placidus was not known at the time of Valens. Therefore, the thread clearly designated "Hellenistic Delineations" seemed a good place to transfer my comments to.

Regarding your Moon and whether your Moon is in Sect or out of Sect using Hellenistic rather than Medieval criteria:

IMO since your Sun is below the horizon then your chart is a Night Chart.

At Night the Moon is in Sect

Therefore your Moon is in Sect

If your Moon were also above the Horizon, then your Moon would have additional strength

But natally the Moon seems to be below the Horizon and the Sun seems to be below the Horizon also, therefore your Moon is apparently in the lower hemisphere along with your Sun.

Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart are still in sect but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb)

dr. farr gave some interesting historical detail
at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...840#post348840
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Not for Paulus (at least): Sun was always in sect but its "value" as such only "counted" if it were above the horizon in a day chart. In my understanding of the literature, the Moon is in sect only when in the night hemisphere of a given chart; if in a night chart the Moon is in the day hemisphere, then not only is the Moon out of sect but also is out of sect in its period, which authors like Paulus (and other later authors like Abu Mashar and Al-kindi) stated made the Moon "powerless" in such a situation.
my response to dr. farr's comment is as follows
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Paulus understanding of the Sun and sect seems very similar and mostly in agreement with that of Valens dr. farr because if according to Paulus the "value" of the Sun is not "counted" unless the Sun is above the horizon in a day chart, then one might question the real difference

With reference to your comments of the moon, I earlier posted the following remarks
2.) In a nocturnal chart you'd want the nocturnal planets in the upper hemisphere away from the Sun (hayz).

Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart are still in sect but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 01-01-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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