Marilyn Monroe

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Exactly.
And this photo is a perfect example.

By the way, she was born brunette but became famous as a platinum blond.
Is this colour change somewhere in her chart?

Ohhh I'm not sure, the only thing I can think off is her Leo rising and the 'sun' qualities. A short blonde do kind off illuminated her like the Sun, although her Norma Jeane hair was big and curly, and just as prominent.

This photo really reminds me of a lion roaring

marilynleorising.jpg


And here she is with her natural Norma Jeane mane

normajeane.jpg
 
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aquarius7000

Well-known member
That is exactly what I was saying. Nep in the 1st does not mean magnetism and charm. It is more about the person's internal personality. MM lived in her own illusive world and was one of the reasons she was unable to maintain her relationships for long. Notice how Nep opposes the 7th house planets. Saturn in the mix, due to a missing father figure, perhaps made her look more for a daddy figure in the men she was with.

In her case, the Moon, in the sign of Saturn ruled Aqua, was not too emotional (which was why she was able to detach herself and move on to the next man). Even her Venus is not emotional in hot and dry Aries (its not a Pisces or Cancer Venus or Moon). What she faced due to short-lived relationships, but multiple (Jup in 7th) was disappointment and disillusionment - due to Nep aspecting the 7th house planets - and making her see her relationships through rose-coloured glasses - how she wanted to see them - not how they really were.

Agree with the part of her being elusive.

I think it's not so much magnetism and charm.
She was the thing dreams are made of.
You look at her, through her ascendent, and come face to face with dreamy Neptune.
And Neptune counterposes emotional moon, sigh sigh, in the public house of the 7th.
She is enigmatic, illusive, that is why she captured the imagination of so many, not only on the screen.
She is the woman who can represent everything to everyone, sexy but timid, naive but intelligent, victim and predator, unaware of her powers but capable of manipulating men.
She is as fixed as fog.
When you think you know her, a different image of her presents itself.
She is the unknowable, unattainable, and being so blatantly vulnerable she is as much of a threat as a two day old kitten.
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
That is exactly what I was saying. Nep in the 1st does not mean magnetism and charm. It is more about the person's internal personality. MM lived in her own illusive world and was one of the reasons she was unable to maintain her relationships for long. Notice how Nep opposes the 7th house planets. Saturn in the mix, due to a missing father figure, perhaps made her look more for a daddy figure in the men she was with.

In her case, the Moon, in the sign of Saturn ruled Aqua, was not too emotional (which was why she was able to detach herself and move on to the next man). Even her Venus is not emotional in hot and dry Aries (its not a Pisces or Cancer Venus or Moon). What she faced due to short-lived relationships, but multiple (Jup in 7th) was disappointment and disillusionment - due to Nep aspecting the 7th house planets - and making her see her relationships through rose-coloured glasses - how she wanted to see them - not how they really were.

Agree with the part of her being elusive.

Yes it's true Marilyn had a thing for older men. A famous example being Albert Einstein who she had a signed picture off.

Although it's quite well-known about Marilyn liking older daddy-figures and her inherent loneliness, other Saturn qualities like being tough and resilient were lesser known traits of Marilyn. It is also known she became vocal to her friends about her deep anger and resentment during her early years in Hollywood and the 'casting couch' situation as it is now known. She was also known to have a volcanic temper, which is probably her Marc conjunct Uranus.

"She was a whirling light to me then, all paradox and enticing mystery, street-tough one moment, then lifted by a lyrical and poetic sensitivity that few retain past early adolescence. She was at this point incapable of condemning or even of judging people who had damaged her, and to be with her was to be accepted, like moving out into a kind of sanctifying light from a life where suspicion was common sense. She had no common sense, but what she did have was something holier, a long-reaching vision of which she herself was only fitfully aware: humans were all need, all wound. What she wanted most was not to judge but to win recognition from a sentimentally cruel profession, and from men blinded to her humanity by her perfect beauty.” - Arthur Miller, from his autobiography, Timebends: A Life.

Here is a photo displaying the 'Saturn side' to Marilyn's personality, pictured with her good friend and photographer, Sam Shaw, who described her as a 'tough, tough tomato.'

marilynsamshaw.jpg
 
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aquarius7000

Well-known member
Yes it's true Marilyn had a thing for older men. A famous example being Albert Einstein who she had a signed picture off.

Although it's quite well-known about Marilyn liking older daddy-figures and her inherent loneliness, other Saturn qualities like being tough and resilient were lesser known traits of Marilyn. It is also known she became vocal to her friends about her deep anger and resentment during her early years in Hollywood and the 'casting couch' situation as it is now known. She was also known to have a volcanic temper, which is probably her Marc conjunct Uranus.

"She was a whirling light to me then, all paradox and enticing mystery, street-tough one moment, then lifted by a lyrical and poetic sensitivity that few retain past early adolescence. She was at this point incapable of condemning or even of judging people who had damaged her, and to be with her was to be accepted, like moving out into a kind of sanctifying light from a life where suspicion was common sense. She had no common sense, but what she did have was something holier, a long-reaching vision of which she herself was only fitfully aware: humans were all need, all wound. What she wanted most was not to judge but to win recognition from a sentimentally cruel profession, and from men blinded to her humanity by her perfect beauty.” - Arthur Miller, from his autobiography, Timebends: A Life.

Here is a photo displaying the 'Saturn side' to Marilyn's personality, pictured with her good friend and photographer, Sam Shaw, who described her as a 'tough, tough tomato.'
Why would one not expect her to have a volcanic temper - she has Mars-Plu, Mars-Ura (both of which score over Saturn-Mars) and, as her Venus (relating to others and in her case rules her thinking and communicating skills thru 3rd) in Aries helped her assert her anger. As said in a previous post, she might seem elusive (escapist), but she knew well enough what she was doing and could harbour grudges (Mars-Pluto). Given her Mars was in Pisces, in an aspect to Saturn (which limits) and Nep in the first, she could not actually physically harm people (the men that hurt her).

Her creativity not only comes from Nep, but actually also from Sun and Gem in Merc and even better a Moon-Merc - she was a good writer at school. Traits and how they are lived out are often a combination of various placements and aspects.
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Leo ascendant, look at this nose, this hair, and her face.

Marilyn's hair is definitely one of her most famous features. Her expressive face made her an excellent model who could capture numerous expressions quicker than the photographer could capture them!
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Mars conjunct Uranus in 8th? An electrifying combination. There is also a Lilithian theme in the way Marilyn was portrayed by the press and the way she openly used her sexuality to gain power. Lilith is in Marilyn's first house, where her Neptune also is, which softens the energy of Lilith and made her appealing to both men and women. As Marilyn's short career progressed and it became clear she was extremely vulnerable, her female fan-base grew.

"she's the most womanly woman I can imagine.. being with her people want to die.. this girl sets up a challenge for every man.. most men become more of what they are natively when they are around her.. a phony becomes more of a phony, a confused man more confused, a retiring man more retiring.. she's a kind of lodestone that draws out of the male animal his essential qualities" - Arthur Miller

"No matter how much a person learns about acting, that person is NOT going to dye her hair black and wear dresses up to her neck!" - Marilyn Monroe

Here she is seen in London on the opening night of Arthur Miller's "A View From the Bridge." Her dress was a blood red and very criticized by the press. Miller defended his wife: "Why should somebody like Marilyn pretend to dress like someone's old aunt?" Later, her would confide privately that Marilyn's flamboyance "embarrassed" him. He then left his diary open for Marilyn to find and she was devastated. It signalled the end of their marriage a few years later.

marilynmonroearthurmiller.jpg
 
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Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
This is a few days late because it is now the 9th of August, but on the 4th August, 1962, Marilyn Monroe passed away while still holding a phone receiver in her hand. She was only 36 years old. Through her death, her stardom grew even larger, thanks in part to conspiracy theories about if she was murdered, relating to her affairs with John F Kennedy. Those who knew her felt her death could easily have been an accident, thanks to her addiction to sleeping pills and the likelihood of forgetting how many she had taken in her desperation to fall asleep, coupled with depression. Many people thought the root cause was loneliness, which can certainly be seen in her chart.

marilyndead.jpg


The photo on the left is of a young Norma Jeane Dougherty at 19 years old, the day she was discovered by an army photographer while working in a munitions factory in 1945. She had married her first husband Jim Dougherty when she was 16 years old so as to avoid returning to an orphanage when her guardians decide to move out of state. When her husband moved overseas, she stayed with his family and took a job working at an aircraft factory. The army photographer, David Conover, immediately noticed her potential and returned a couple of weeks later to take more photographs. This began her modelling career.

marilynbeggingingtoend.jpg


Later, when the now Marilyn Monroe was famous, he would visit her on the set of Gentleman Prefer Blondes, the movie where she sang her most famous number, 'Diamond's Are A Girl's Best Friend.'

marilyndavidconover.jpg


These are the last known photos of Marilyn Monroe ever taken. 6 days later she would be found dead. Frank Sinatra can be seen in the background. Buddy Greco, the owner of the photographs, can be seen with his arms around her. According to Greco, there were over 50 photographs taken of Marilyn Monroe this weekend, which he was keeping safe in a safety deposit box at the World Trade Centre, when they got destroyed in the September 11th 2001 attacks. These are the only remaining photos that he kept in his home.

marilyncalnevalodge.jpg


Here are the transits on the day Marilyn passed away, it is set to the 4th August, although it may have been the early hours of the 5th August.

marilynmonroedeathchart.png
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Marilyn Monroe was not a Sagittarius.


MMyellowbikini.jpg


It did rule her 5th house though. :smile:

:smile:

The ruler, Jupiter, is conjunct her Moon in the 7th house: the fact MM was so 'open' was part of her appeal because it made her accessible to millions. The reason for this openness could maybe be defined by this quote,

"I knew I wanted to be a star. Not because I was beautiful or even talented but because I had never belonged to anyone." Marilyn Monroe

She made the yellow bikini herself. It was scandalous to wear a bikini that was so revealing. Usually, it was a rule in the '50's to cover the bellybutton up. Marilyn's Monroe's daring attitude towards her body and sex was a theme throughout her life, beginning at puberty where she covered up her poverty and competed with the other girls who had nice things by standing out.

The photographer, Anthony Beauchamp, would go on to ask his other models to wear similar bikinis.

What we are seeing in the above picture, is just one of thousands of photos where we are seeing the beauty of Marilyn Monroe that transcends physical beauty because the psychology is so fascinating.

In my opinion, she was an undiagnosed manic depressive; a grieving artist who gave everything she had to her art. Unfortunately, it was a doomed mission, she was fighting on empty because she did not have the tools to heal herself and was born in a time that could not understand her. The strength of character it took to fight the good fight under those circumstances cannot be more emphasized when trying to understand the essence of Marilyn Monroe. Saturn at the bottom of her chart and South Node in Capricorn 6th house do not exactly describe a comfortable existence, but it gave her the drive to get out of bed every morning. Marilyn Monroe showed up to her work and gave it 100%.

The infamous lack of time-keeping later in her career was caused by a sleeping pill addiction and declining mental health but that was genuine and not to be confused with laziness. There was probably some rebelling against the patriarchy of the Hollywood movie studios too, along with genuine fear of not being good enough (a fascinating, complex creature with multiple reasons for her actions).

Then there is the tragic side of Marilyn Monroe. The twin she did not show to the world. She gave it her all when in manic mode and the crash was inevitable. Once she had finished work, she did not have the inner stability to cook dinner or ground herself, instead she would take sleeping pills and sleep, not wanting to face the intense darkness that would have come.

Here is a professional photo by Richard Avedon which captured the inevitable fall. Or maybe it is simply the real person behind the character, the abandoned, Norma Jeane.

“For hours she danced and sang and flirted and did this thing that’s—she did Marilyn Monroe,” Avedon said later, adding that the white wine helped things along. “Then there was the inevitable drop … she sat in the corner like a child, with everything gone.” And he clicked his shutter once more. “I wouldn’t photograph her without her knowledge of it. And as I came with the camera, I saw that she was not saying no.” Richard Avedon (https://nymag.com/news/features/31523/)

marilynmonroerichardavedon.jpg
 
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sentR89day

Well-known member
She had North Node in Cancer, in the 12th house. But, she felt that home life was boring, and she didn't like to not be seen (12th house)!

Fame (South Node in Capricorn) and the public life was not karmically good luck for her. She was also a well-known perfectionist (South Node in the 6th house), she was known for being extremely anxious to be perfect while filming!

You could see her south node in working throughout her life! I bet that had she live ten years longer, she might have retired from Hollywood (North Node in Cancer), or unfortunately went into a mental hospital (North Node in the 12th house)!
 

Zeuses

Well-known member
Re: Did Marilyn Monroe kill herself?

I'm not the most experienced astrologer, but just looked at her progressions and transits for the time and very few oppositions (someone or something doing something to you) transits, just mercury in 2st opposing moon 7th and Uranus 1st opposing Jupiter 7th. However, lots of sayares (frustrated action) both for progressions and transits plus conjunctions.

Progressions
Mars 8th square sun 11
Venus 9th square ASC
Venus square MC

Transits
1 mercury opp moon 7
12 sun conjunct ASC
1 mercury square Saturn 4
11 mars square mars 8
2 pluto square sun 10
10 mercury square sat 4
Pluto square mercury 10
4 sat square MC

She also had positive ones going on but I guess the heavy ones outweighed them on this night.
2 pluto square mercury
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Re: Did Marilyn Monroe kill herself?

Is this an interpretation of her birth chart? Feel free to post it on the Marilyn Monroe thread where we can discuss it freely. I posted her chart in the first post and w few posts later, the chart with transits on the night/early morning of her death. Your post may get deleted here because it’s not horary but hopefully they move it to the correct part of the forum instead :)

Marilyn Monroe thread - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134016

[Posts moved to the natal thread. - Moderator]
 
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Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Love your interpretation. It’s interesting you see SN in 6th as the fame, hadn’t looked at it that way before. MM’s Nodes are very interesting in how her life played out. Good catch on the anxiety and perfectionism for 6th house too. I’ve imagine in either a past-life or her ancestors, wee very hard working types. The type to work hard everyday until their death, even slavery. Eventually someone in the family tree deserves the opposite.

I agree that fame was not healthy for her. Someone as mentally fragile as MM was, to then deal with, the pressures of fame, is incredible. It’s true she worked extremely hard. This is especially true when she was suffering incredibly with insomnia and drug addiction towards the end of her life, but she still got up to work. She worked hard for many years but the fame came suddenly. That would be difficult for a stable person.

I wonder about the alternative though. What would her life had been like if she had always remained Norma Jeane? She wouldn’t have been happy as a housewife, she was an intellect, with lots of energy and deep, deep pain. She would have killed herself at some point, I think.

Her childhood in an orphanage, was an institution. The structure of fame was an institution that kept her imprisoned but also gave her something to live for. Those who knew her, thought she should have been sectioned years before she died. It was her influence as a star and the Svengali doctors that kept her from being locked up.

Has she lived, yes, she would have ended up there. It was her worst nightmare. I think if we understand Marilyn’s need to be loved be ‘seen’ (Leo ascendant), we can begin to understand that being locked up was a fate worse than death. It was a blessing in disguise she died when she did, she didn’t deserve to be punished for her mental illness like that and to see her whole life and career fade away.

I like to imagine a more positive scenario. Maybe by some miracle she would get off the drugs, find some inner stability and totally transform into a hippy type who didn’t need money or fame. (She has hardly any money when she died).

But yeah, SN Capricorn in 6th house, can’t get much harsher than that. I guess in the end it played out as the 12th house (drugs), she obliterated herself.
 

sentR89day

Well-known member
Love your interpretation. It’s interesting you see SN in 6th as the fame, hadn’t looked at it that way before. MM’s Nodes are very interesting in how her life played out. Good catch on the anxiety and perfectionism for 6th house too. I’ve imagine in either a past-life or her ancestors, wee very hard working types. The type to work hard everyday until their death, even slavery. Eventually someone in the family tree deserves the opposite.

I agree that fame was not healthy for her. Someone as mentally fragile as MM was, to then deal with, the pressures of fame, is incredible. It’s true she worked extremely hard. This is especially true when she was suffering incredibly with insomnia and drug addiction towards the end of her life, but she still got up to work. She worked hard for many years but the fame came suddenly. That would be difficult for a stable person.

I wonder about the alternative though. What would her life had been like if she had always remained Norma Jeane? She wouldn’t have been happy as a housewife, she was an intellect, with lots of energy and deep, deep pain. She would have killed herself at some point, I think.

Her childhood in an orphanage, was an institution. The structure of fame was an institution that kept her imprisoned but also gave her something to live for. Those who knew her, thought she should have been sectioned years before she died. It was her influence as a star and the Svengali doctors that kept her from being locked up.

Has she lived, yes, she would have ended up there. It was her worst nightmare. I think if we understand Marilyn’s need to be loved be ‘seen’ (Leo ascendant), we can begin to understand that being locked up was a fate worse than death. It was a blessing in disguise she died when she did, she didn’t deserve to be punished for her mental illness like that and to see her whole life and career fade away.

I like to imagine a more positive scenario. Maybe by some miracle she would get off the drugs, find some inner stability and totally transform into a hippy type who didn’t need money or fame. (She has hardly any money when she died).

But yeah, SN Capricorn in 6th house, can’t get much harsher than that. I guess in the end it played out as the 12th house (drugs), she obliterated herself.

Unfortunately, sometimes mental illness is hereditary. I heard that her mother, and a great grandmother had it (not sure, don't quote me on this), so I wouldn't be surprised if Marilyn became more mentally unstable as the years, or decades, went on!

I believe that her early death might have saved her from decades of living in mental hell. From my limited knowledge, I don't think medication for severe mental ilnesses, or even moderate mental sickness, was that good until the mid to late 1980's! So, her dying early might have been a type of merciful divine intervention!

It would have been ideal for her to live longer, but she had deep issues, and was deeply insecure!

As for the astrology, her south node was in Capricorn. The 6th house rules daily routine. She was extremely harsh on herself, very self critical of herself! You could see, and feel it, in her eyes!
 

Zeuses

Well-known member
Is this an interpretation of her birth chart? Feel free to post it on the Marilyn Monroe thread where we can discuss it freely. I posted her chart in the first post and w few posts later, the chart with transits on the night/early morning of her death. Your post may get deleted here because it’s not horary but hopefully they move it to the correct part of the forum instead :)

Marilyn Monroe thread - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134016

[Posts moved to the natal thread. - Moderator]
Hi. It was an interpretation of her progressions and transits on the night she died.
 
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