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  #1  
Unread 11-04-2008, 10:15 PM
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Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Thanks Shining Ray,
Thats fabulous. The images are great too.If anyone would care to ask questions arising from this Article, please do so here on this thread.
Shining, When you post part 2, can you post it on the next post under your current one, so they will be *continuous*? (just being Virgoan for a moment!)
Cheers,
Lilly
Heres a link to the Article:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12712

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  #2  
Unread 11-05-2008, 05:40 AM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Good article, Shiny - enjoyed reading it.

My immediate questions will proably be answered in a later part, but I'll raise them here anyway :-

1. I have 4 planets in Cardinal (initiating) Signs but only 2 in Fire (active) Signs, so how would initiative combine with inaction? I do have 3 planets in Air (accumulating information) + 3 in Water (emotional) and wonder if this means that I generate ideas/emotions but tend not to act upon them.

2. My planets are spread evenly across element/mode/gender, which suggests balance. However, my actual behaviour leans more towards "sensitive" than balanced. Might that be because the Sun/Moon/Mercury are all in Water Signs, perhaps giving an additional emphasis to that element?

EJ
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  #3  
Unread 11-05-2008, 08:41 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi Lilly,

I will post the other parts in the same thread to keep it all together .
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  #4  
Unread 11-05-2008, 09:18 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ53
Good article, Shiny - enjoyed reading it.

My immediate questions will probably be answered in a later part, but I'll raise them here anyway :-

1. I have 4 planets in Cardinal (initiating) Signs but only 2 in Fire (active) Signs, so how would initiative combine with inaction? I do have 3 planets in Air (accumulating information) + 3 in Water (emotional) and wonder if this means that I generate ideas/emotions but tend not to act upon them.
Depends on your other elements, I would have to see your chart to judge, there is a way of counting the elements which I like by Lyn Birkbeck, which I will post in part 2 of the article. The highest points go to Sun, Moon, Asc, then Mercury, Venus, Mars, then a bit lower for Jupiter and Saturn and only 1 point for outer planets in elements. There is a second part I will post on compensating factors in the chart, i.e you might be low on the water element but have all the water houses filled and so you will experience some of the themes the water people do. With water and air these are opposite elements in psychological astrology. There could be a little bit of clash at times when you are being objective and intellectual (Air) about something but your own personal feelings (water) are also activated. But it's not a bad thing it can work well for you to have the ability to have ideas and to bring in empathy and be emotionally responsive to people. Which works well for astrology as you always convey your ideas well and do care about other people. Like on this forum you are always encouraging other people, and have always thanked us for posting an article and you have taken the time to read it and respond.

Quote:
2. My planets are spread evenly across element/mode/gender, which suggests balance. However, my actual behaviour leans more towards "sensitive" than balanced. Might that be because the Sun/Moon/Mercury are all in Water Signs, perhaps giving an additional emphasis to that element?

EJ
Yes the Sun Moon and Mercury will get a higher count in water than say the outer planets or even Jupiter/Saturn. You might have planets which rule the water signs etc (Moon, Neptune, Pluto) on an angle this will also compensate, especially if rising or on the M.C these planets seem to be more on show. I will try and make it clear in the next article not to "type" charts too quickly without assessing all the factors in the chart, and you have to ask the person how they personally respond to life. This is as much a learning excercise for me, because people can post charts here with their element count etc and explain how they approach life what their basic temperament is, and do they feel planets in houses compansate for a lack of an element, how do they feel if they have a singleton (one planet in an element). I will post my chart as well and describe how I respond to life. It's not going to be black and white in that "you have more water therefore your emotional, and I have more Air and I am intellectual", there are many compensating factors in the whole chart. But you have to begin somewhere. The example I picked for the 2nd part of my article was Hitler and he has 0 planets in water, I was debating whether to use this example as some people will draw the conclusion no water no empathy or feeling which is not the case at all, as I have seen some pretty Violent charts with lots of water who display the most cruel behavior. It is fascinating to explore charts this way, but don't judge too quickly. I will try and explore more charts myself and I might be surprised at what I find. It will be interesting to see the results.

Lilly is it o.k to keep some articles ongoing as I come across charts or some extra learning material I can extend on the articles I post, as I learn I can post any new insights, but if you think it will be too long I will leave it.

Last edited by Shining Ray; 11-05-2008 at 09:24 AM.
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Unread 11-05-2008, 09:40 AM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Thanks, Shiny.

I've not come across the Lyn Birkbeck approach to element counting, so I'm looking forward to applying it to my own chart and maybe throwing that up for discussion if it raises anything interesting.

From a newcomers viewpoint though, I like the way this technique enables a good understanding of a chart to be obtained quickly and intuitively - without the need to resort to standard cookbook interpretations, which more often hinder rather than aid the learning process.

Good call on the choice of article.

EJ
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  #6  
Unread 11-05-2008, 11:03 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Shining Ray,
Re:

<Lilly is it o.k to keep some articles ongoing as I come across charts or some extra learning material I can extend on the articles I post, as I learn I can post any new insights, but if you think it will be too long I will leave it.>


I think keeping the Articles *Extendable* is a great idea-I've already added to the Basic astrology thread a couple of times...Please feel free to augment what you have written as new stuff comes to hand.
This is all very helpful. Thanks folks!
(EJ: What Article are you working on for us? )
Lillyjgc
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  #7  
Unread 11-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Thanks Lilly I have examples of singletons in elements etc, to add further down the article. It is enjoyable to do, I will add my how to count elements etc later and then move on to longer explanations and chart examples.
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  #8  
Unread 11-06-2008, 02:11 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

ShiningRay,
That sounds excellent.Looking forward to part 2...(It IS fun to do, isn't it?).
Cheers, lilly.
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  #9  
Unread 11-06-2008, 06:19 AM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillyjgc
...(EJ: What Article are you working on for us? )
Point taken and well-made Lilly. But, there is still a queue of volunteers on the original thread that have yet to be "put to work" here.

EJ
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  #10  
Unread 11-06-2008, 09:34 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Ej-we can *never* have *too many* contributions. (!)

But seriously, you do raise a good point-think I'll have to go back to that original thread and do some reminding!

Lillyjgc
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  #11  
Unread 11-06-2008, 09:45 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillyjgc
ShiningRay,
That sounds excellent.Looking forward to part 2...(It IS fun to do, isn't it?).
Cheers, lilly.
Hi Lilly,

I have been busy decorating the house but will try and post some more when I can. Look forward to reading your contribution also E.J .
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  #12  
Unread 11-06-2008, 11:53 AM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

I've done the Lyn Birkbeck count, Shiny.

Water=11 and Mutable=12
Fire = 4 and Cardinal=10
Earth = 8 and Fixed = 8
Air =7

So, what seemed a balanced chart is now a "whinging and inactive piscean" or a "wind and water mudslinger".

Can't be right. Otherwise, I'd be trying hard to avoid doing any articles for the Education Board. (Incidentally, have I ever mentioned my poor eyesight; physical problems with typing and inability to explain myself cleary in writing?)

EJ
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  #13  
Unread 11-06-2008, 03:26 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Yeah you do seem to be avoiding doing an article lol . We will let you off and pick on someone else for a while .

My element count is:

Water

Sun 4
Moon 4
Mercury 3
Uranus 1
Total = Water 12

Earth

Asc 4
Venus 3
Saturn 2
M.C 2
Total = Earth 11

Fire

Jupiter 2
Neptune 1
Total = Fire 3

Air

Mars 3
Pluto 1
Total Air 4
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  #14  
Unread 11-06-2008, 04:50 PM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi Shiny,

The over-emphasis of Earth (19), evenly balanced between Cardinal (9) and Fixed (10) is the most worrying aspect of Hitler's chart for me. Here is a "man of the soil" - happy to rise at dawn and work until dusk to produce his crop. And the absence of Water points to a man who would expect his workers to do the same. So, for him, achieving the right end very clearly justified the means used to attain it.

Interesting how, just by analysing the elements, we already have a good idea of the issues we might find in the detailed analysis - at least for me, Hitler and (probably) yourself.

(Thanks for the "get out of jail free" pass on submitting an article myself. Hope it's been signed/authorised by Lilly.)


EJ
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  #15  
Unread 11-06-2008, 10:58 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi E,J

Just posted my modes on Hitler and the results were interesting and you do get a lot out of doing it. The Earth/Cardinal/Fixed nature really shows! Although I have come to the conclusion that since he lacks Mutable & Water he really needs to develop his Piscean qualities.

My Modes

Cardinal

Venus 3
Pluto 1
Grand total 4 Cardinal

Fixed

Mars 3
Jupiter 2
Uranus 1
M.C 2
Grand total 8 fixed


Mutable

Sun 4
Moon 4
Asc 4
Mercury 3
Saturn 2
Neptune 1
Grand total 18 mutable :60: I am changeable.

I lack Fire and Cardinal energy. I need to develop Aries qualities, which actually I feel is true for me. I'll work on it.

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  #16  
Unread 11-06-2008, 11:54 PM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Fire Signs = 11
Fire Houses = 2

Earth Signs = 5
Earth Houses = 7

Air Signs = 11
Air Houses = 3

Water Signs = 3
Water Houses = 12


Cardinal Signs = 7
Cardinal Houses = 6

Fixed Signs = 12
Fixed Houses = 8

Mutable Signs = 11
Mutable Houses = 10



... stupid balanced chart, give me something to work with here.
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  #17  
Unread 11-07-2008, 04:13 AM
EJ53 EJ53 is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
...(Hitler) really needs to develop his Piscean qualities.
Guess it's too late to tell him that now, Shiny. But, he'd probably have been pleased to be scored 4 for Cardinal Mercury rather than 3 - are you trying to win an Iron Cross with that?

Seriously though, had he not lacked those Piscean qualities, he might have used all that Cardinal/Fixed Earth to build something of great value to the World.

(On your own chart, the Piscean/Virgo mood swings must make life interesting for your family.)


EJ

Last edited by EJ53; 11-07-2008 at 05:09 AM.
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  #18  
Unread 11-07-2008, 04:55 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

An entirely new way of looking at a chart for me - thanks for an interesting article, Shining Ray!

Although, I'm not so sure that I should have done mine. I'm almost as bad as Hitler! Aaaarrrgh!

I have:

FIRE: 7
AIR: 8
WATER: 3
EARTH: 12

CARDINAL: 12
FIXED: 5
MUTABLE: 13

The only thing is I have much less fixed and much more mutable, and I have a 2 planets in water at least. Although, I guess my Uranus/Pluto in conjunction in the 8th, and Mercury(r) in the 12th make up for it somewhat. I guess this does explain why I "feel" more "Earthy" than anything else. Does this say that my motto is : "Git-R-Done"?
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Last edited by freedomlover; 11-07-2008 at 05:02 AM.
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Unread 11-07-2008, 05:11 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi,
Well, I have the following:
Fire-: 1
Earth-: 3
Air:-: 3
Water:- 4
Cardinal: 7 (sun, merc, mars, jup, ur, nept. chiron)
Fixed: 3 ( pluto, Sat, Venus)
Mutable:1.(moon)

I think the watery element *having the numbers*, so to speak, might be the reason I feel emotions so strongly.
Since I was a small child,I have always cried at the sound of bagpipes playing.As an adult I have to fight back the tears when I hear them -only live-a recording doesnt have the same effect. To me its always been inexplicable.My moon is in Virgo in the tenth,which may increase that sensitivity *out in the world*.
The lack of fire has often been compensated for by having people with predominant Fire signs in my life, as friends or business associates, but I do often lack that spark of the *go-getter*. I would say I'm more of a plodder.
Lillyjgc.
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  #20  
Unread 11-07-2008, 09:26 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ53
Guess it's too late to tell him that now, Shiny. But, he'd probably have been pleased to be scored 4 for Cardinal Mercury rather than 3 - are you trying to win an Iron Cross with that?
lol Too late for my lectures, I wonder what plane of existence he is in now, I wonder if he ever reincarnated. Too many deep questions for this early in the morning. Too bad hell hasn't got an email connection I could send it through to him. (I changed his Cardinal score he has enough without me adding to it lol)

Quote:
Seriously though, had he not lacked those Piscean qualities, he might have used all that Cardinal/Fixed Earth to build something of great value to the World.
There is still human choice on how to use his energy, maybe someone with a similar chart is using their energy for the greater good.

(On your own chart, the Piscean/Virgo mood swings must make life interesting for your family.)

I have a range of emotions running through me and being mutable I can be joyful to sad etc. I don't really have mood swings in the family, but saying that my moods usually affect everybody . But as they say happy mother happy roost. That's the wrong saying but it is something like that.

Last edited by Shining Ray; 11-07-2008 at 09:51 AM.
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Unread 11-07-2008, 09:37 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Looks like you need to develop your Scorpio side freedom lover, with low Water and low fixed energy. Transformation darling, stay true to your emotions no more freedom loving for you . Depends on what other fixed elements are in your chart through houses and angular planets but your fixed planets conjunct in 8th probably does make up for this especially if they link to personal planets. I am still winning on being the highest Mutable lol. (not sure how I feel about this).
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Unread 11-07-2008, 09:40 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi Ang,

It's not a bad thing to be balanced, it's better than being scattered all over the place like this Mutable .

Last edited by Shining Ray; 11-07-2008 at 09:52 AM.
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Unread 11-07-2008, 09:45 AM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Hi Lilly,

I also lack the go getter energy, I usually wait for people to say it's alright to do something. The lack of fire and cardinal for me is a lot about developing my own independent energy. I have North Node in 1st house, sometimes I sway between two nodes from relationships and considering how other people feel and their opinions, (SN 7th) and then I polarize back to my own self development (NN 1st) as it feels such a strong pull. Difficult to explain really, I may one day figure it all out.
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Unread 11-07-2008, 12:17 PM
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Re: Shining Ray's article-Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Ray
It's not a bad thing to be balanced, it's better than being scattered all over the place like this Mutable .
Hehe, I know. I am a potential Mistress of the Elements!

I guess if you split houses and signs, it shows a fixed/mutable fire/air style (signs), applied to earth/water areas of life (houses). So I could do with developing more cardinal water/earth approach (Cancer and Capricorn), and cardinal fire/air aspects of life (1st and 7th houses) - sounds about right.
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