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 Astrologers' Community Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

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#1
11-13-2019, 06:58 PM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

My question is pretty straightforward, but no one on any other group has been able to answer it for me so far. So, I'm hopeful that someone here can. Okay, so what I want to know is: Can you balance someone's natal T-square with an axis or does it have to be a planet contact? Here's my personal example: My ascendant sets off someone I knows's t-square by hitting their focal planet within two degrees. I know it would have a big impact on them because it's squaring their opposing planets, but does my descendant balance it by being on that opposite focal point at all or is it only planets that can balance the energy?

#2
11-13-2019, 08:46 PM
 IleneK Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: in this mysterious cosmos Posts: 4,935
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RubyTuesday My question is pretty straightforward, but no one on any other group has been able to answer it for me so far. So, I'm hopeful that someone here can. Okay, so what I want to know is: Can you balance someone's natal T-square with an axis or does it have to be a planet contact? Here's my personal example: My ascendant sets off someone I knows's t-square by hitting their focal planet within two degrees. I know it would have a big impact on them because it's squaring their opposing planets, but does my descendant balance it by being on that opposite focal point at all or is it only planets that can balance the energy?
My understanding is that only bodies/planets have energy to affect the energy of other bodies/planets. Points like Asc, Dsc, MC, IC, NN-SN etc have no mass, so cannot influence as you suggest.
Your having an actual planet make another's t-square into a grand square would help, but it would still be very charged; highly energetic. The ideal balancing of a t-square through synastry would be your having planets that trine or sextile points in the t-square, helping to provide an easier outflow of energy from the t-square.
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 The Following User Says Thank You to IleneK For This Useful Post: ElenaJ (11-13-2019)
#3
11-13-2019, 10:16 PM
 ElenaJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,547
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Interesting question.
When you use the term "balance", it sounds like you would like to achieve a perfect square figure, but what is needed here are easy aspects to the planets in the T-square to help soften it, and diffuse it, like IleneK wrote.
Closing the T-square would not "balance" it, it would end up blocking the energy, it would have no outlet and it would continue to play off itself.
If the focal point sits on your ascendent it would effect your ascendent, and probably be effected by it. It would work both ways.
Can we use a concrete example?
Ascendent in Leo. Descendent in Aquarius.
T-square mars in Leo, squaring an opposition of moon in taurus and Saturn in scorpio.
So we have mars sitting on your ascendent, stimulating it and simultaneously interacting with moon and Saturn. You would become irritated, you would find your personal expression hampered by Saturn squaring, and at the same time being touched internally by the moon square.
Your reaction would also trigger the conflicting energies of the T-square in the other person, setting off their negative reaction, their contact with your personality would agitate them.
However, would it be pulling energy from your descendent, or maybe giving energy to your descendent?
We would have mars opposing the descendent, with moon and Saturn squaring it.
So these energies would materialise, they would play out in matters of the descendent. The relationship would be in turn overly emotional (moon square), cold (Saturn square), irritable (mars opposition).
But would the descendent on the other hand "complete" the planets? By concentrating on the relationship, will the T-square person find a resolution of their conflictual energy?
They might use the relationship as a way of emptying the T-square, of releasing the negative energy by focusing on the descendent. Which is not really the same thing as completing the T-square.
And I'm not sure why, but I suspect the mars/descendent opposition would play out less strongly than the Saturn/moon opposition to the descendent.
Not sure if this is a help, I'm looking forward to hearing feedback on this. Thanks for asking.

Last edited by ElenaJ; 11-13-2019 at 10:54 PM.
 The Following User Says Thank You to ElenaJ For This Useful Post: RubyTuesday (11-14-2019)
#4
11-14-2019, 02:10 AM
 wan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 993
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by IleneK My understanding is that only bodies/planets have energy to affect the energy of other bodies/planets. Points like Asc, Dsc, MC, IC, NN-SN etc have no mass, so cannot influence as you suggest. Your having an actual planet make another's t-square into a grand square would help, but it would still be very charged; highly energetic. The ideal balancing of a t-square through synastry would be your having planets that trine or sextile points in the t-square, helping to provide an easier outflow of energy from the t-square.
Actually, what I have read online is that if you have a planet that's opposite the focal point of a person's T-square (in other words, you complete their T-square and turn it into a grand cross), you provide energy that they "crave". You stabilize their T-square. You have what they are missing.

I agree with the points thing though. I think it needs to be an actual body in order to count for the purpose of T-squares.

Last edited by wan; 11-14-2019 at 02:36 AM.
#5
11-14-2019, 04:47 AM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ElenaJ Interesting question. When you use the term "balance", it sounds like you would like to achieve a perfect square figure, but what is needed here are easy aspects to the planets in the T-square to help soften it, and diffuse it, like IleneK wrote. Closing the T-square would not "balance" it, it would end up blocking the energy, it would have no outlet and it would continue to play off itself. If the focal point sits on your ascendent it would effect your ascendent, and probably be effected by it. It would work both ways. Can we use a concrete example? Ascendent in Leo. Descendent in Aquarius. T-square mars in Leo, squaring an opposition of moon in taurus and Saturn in scorpio. So we have mars sitting on your ascendent, stimulating it and simultaneously interacting with moon and Saturn. You would become irritated, you would find your personal expression hampered by Saturn squaring, and at the same time being touched internally by the moon square. Your reaction would also trigger the conflicting energies of the T-square in the other person, setting off their negative reaction, their contact with your personality would agitate them. However, would it be pulling energy from your descendent, or maybe giving energy to your descendent? We would have mars opposing the descendent, with moon and Saturn squaring it. So these energies would materialise, they would play out in matters of the descendent. The relationship would be in turn overly emotional (moon square), cold (Saturn square), irritable (mars opposition). But would the descendent on the other hand "complete" the planets? By concentrating on the relationship, will the T-square person find a resolution of their conflictual energy? They might use the relationship as a way of emptying the T-square, of releasing the negative energy by focusing on the descendent. Which is not really the same thing as completing the T-square. And I'm not sure why, but I suspect the mars/descendent opposition would play out less strongly than the Saturn/moon opposition to the descendent. Not sure if this is a help, I'm looking forward to hearing feedback on this. Thanks for asking.
What wan replied is what I was referring to. I'm going to try and attach a link to the chart on Google images so you can see it for yourself if it will work. I've never tried linking from Google images before, but imgur makes all images where everyone can see them on there and I hate it. I'll use it if I have to though. I just want to see if this works first. Please bear with me. lol The chart has some horrible aspects from cookbook descriptions. I just want someone who knows more than me to see it. I want to know if I'm going to hurt or help this person basically. Anyway, in the chart I'm the Scorpio Sun.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPppCZnTOSeEuVw7c_Z1PGMGRcuI9dKRI8QxGqH
#6
11-14-2019, 04:51 AM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Please let me know if that works for you. I can copy and paste the link and it works, but idk if it will for anyone else.
#7
11-14-2019, 06:44 AM
 ElenaJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,547
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Sorry, it says error.
Can you do the chart on astro.com? You don't have to enter the names of the persons.
#8
11-14-2019, 01:07 PM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ElenaJ Sorry, it says error. Can you do the chart on astro.com? You don't have to enter the names of the persons.
It's an astro chart. I just didn't know you could switch to desktop version on a phone until now and on the mobile version you have to link images through hosting sites because you can't attach anything through mobile. Anyway, here it is. I apologize for taking so long to figure it out.
Attached Images
 aviary-image-1573704439528.jpg (40.1 KB, 7 views)
 The Following User Says Thank You to RubyTuesday For This Useful Post: ElenaJ (11-14-2019)
#9
11-14-2019, 02:38 PM
 ElenaJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,547
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Presumably this is a romantic relationship? You didn't really identify it.
So we have a T-square composed of Neptune squaring the opposition of mars to sun/saturn.
And it sits on your (presumably yours, blue) Ascendent which also happens to conjunct a mars that is square pluto/moon.
This is quite brutal.
She (?) has a Venus/pluto opposition that touches on your mercury /uranus/sun.
Her mercury/jupiter trines her pluto and your mercury/uranus/sun, which is very positive.
In fact, the two mercuries being in trine are a big help towards communication.
Venus rules her descendent, and trines her Uranus/north node. She needs a partner with strong Uranian qualities, and you have Uranus conjunct sun. Also, Venus opposing pluto looks for a plutonian quality in the partner, and you are a scorpio. These are binding aspects.
Her sun is conjunct Saturn, so the male figure in her life could be older, or saturnian. Your ascendent is ruled by Saturn.
You on the other hand have a sun-ruled descendent, and this connection alludes me.
Her moon has a wide out of sign trine with Neptune, which sits exactly on your mars, which is a sexual attraction, as well as a trigger for fantasy and delusion.
This synastry is very complex, and really depends on the spiritual maturity of the two to make it work.
And we can see from this that just taking an aspect on its own doesn't give a proper picture.
It also shows how easy aspects can help lighten up difficult ones.
It would be interesting to see the composite of the two charts. Can you manage that?
 The Following User Says Thank You to ElenaJ For This Useful Post: RubyTuesday (11-14-2019)
#10
11-14-2019, 03:40 PM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ElenaJ Presumably this is a romantic relationship? You didn't really identify it. So we have a T-square composed of Neptune squaring the opposition of mars to sun/saturn. And it sits on your (presumably yours, blue) Ascendent which also happens to conjunct a mars that is square pluto/moon. This is quite brutal. She (?) has a Venus/pluto opposition that touches on your mercury /uranus/sun. Her mercury/jupiter trines her pluto and your mercury/uranus/sun, which is very positive. In fact, the two mercuries being in trine are a big help towards communication. Venus rules her descendent, and trines her Uranus/north node. She needs a partner with strong Uranian qualities, and you have Uranus conjunct sun. Also, Venus opposing pluto looks for a plutonian quality in the partner, and you are a scorpio. These are binding aspects. Her sun is conjunct Saturn, so the male figure in her life could be older, or saturnian. Your ascendent is ruled by Saturn. You on the other hand have a sun-ruled descendent, and this connection alludes me. Her moon has a wide out of sign trine with Neptune, which sits exactly on your mars, which is a sexual attraction, as well as a trigger for fantasy and delusion. This synastry is very complex, and really depends on the spiritual maturity of the two to make it work. And we can see from this that just taking an aspect on its own doesn't give a proper picture. It also shows how easy aspects can help lighten up difficult ones. It would be interesting to see the composite of the two charts. Can you manage that?
I'll do you one better and attach both the composite and the Davison. I wasn't trying to give away details of the connection because it's not something socially acceptable because there is an age gap. I'm the female/Scorpio and he's a younger guy (with the t-square) who likes older women. It's not a huge age gap he's 20's and I'm 30's, but I wouldn't be comfortable even attempting to put any expectations on someone that young in a relationship context. I would feel too guilty and I just couldn't. However he is extremely intriguing to me. I rarely if ever contact him, he contacts me instead. I just don't know if I'd be hurtful to his development or helpful. I obviously couldn't commit even if I wanted to and I'm really not sure what is sparking his interest in me tbh.
Attached Images
 aviary-image-1573745442339.jpg (52.1 KB, 7 views) aviary-image-1573745562379.jpg (50.4 KB, 5 views)
#11
11-14-2019, 05:40 PM
 ElenaJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,547
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

These days wide age differences one way or the other seem to be the norm, no problem.
However, in his chart specifically there is a leaning towards older partners.
Notice in the composite first off, moon (emotions) square Uranus and Neptune. Infatuation, confusion, (deception ?), freedom loving, and probably will end as quickly as it began.
Psyche on saturn... cold ice on passion! Passion wants to be unbridled, not restrained.
Venus off by itself with only a weak trine to pluto, physical attraction, but where is love?.
What is nice, however, is the mercury/sun conjunction, between stabilising Saturn and benevolent generous Jupiter. Moon trines these planets, which is excellent.
Eros of desire is in aspect, exact degree, with the moon's nodes explaining the physical temptation.
The synastry is really difficult, although binding, this composite shows the way to work it out in a relationship, with communication and lots of space. Lots.
PS. it is generous of you to think about the effect it would have on him, but think primarily about what you would get from it, especially if you invest emotions in a romantic relationship and it ends abruptly, maybe in a bad way.
 The Following User Says Thank You to ElenaJ For This Useful Post: RubyTuesday (11-14-2019)
#12
11-14-2019, 06:10 PM
 RubyTuesday Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 51
Re: Balancing T-square energy through synastry contacts.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ElenaJ These days wide age differences one way or the other seem to be the norm, no problem. However, in his chart specifically there is a leaning towards older partners. Notice in the composite first off, moon (emotions) square Uranus and Neptune. Infatuation, confusion, (deception ?), freedom loving, and probably will end as quickly as it began. Psyche on saturn... cold ice on passion! Passion wants to be unbridled, not restrained. Venus off by itself with only a weak trine to pluto, physical attraction, but where is love?. What is nice, however, is the mercury/sun conjunction, between stabilising Saturn and benevolent generous Jupiter. Moon trines these planets, which is excellent. Eros of desire is in aspect, exact degree, with the moon's nodes explaining the physical temptation. The synastry is really difficult, although binding, this composite shows the way to work it out in a relationship, with communication and lots of space. Lots. PS. it is generous of you to think about the effect it would have on him, but think primarily about what you would get from it, especially if you invest emotions in a romantic relationship and it ends abruptly, maybe in a bad way.
I really appreciate all the time you put in to helping me figure some of this out. Thank you so much! The attraction for me is mostly spurred on by the fact that he has intensity and Plutonic energy. Pluto is the heaviest in my chart by aspect. I think Uranus is second if I remember correctly. It rules my chart and Uranian and 11th house/Aquarius energy holds most of my personal planets. I've struggled for a very long time trying to balance out those conflicting approaches to relationships. The wanting to feel as though someone belongs to me and vice versa (deep and intense relating) from Pluto/Scorpio and the need for space to collect my thoughts and that overwhelming fear of losing my freedom of expression to a romantic partner. I'm slowly coming to the realization that a traditional relationship might not be what's best for me from an emotional standpoint. It is too stressful and often suffocating. Aside from his intensity though, there is so much about his energy that feels familiar to me. His Mars being right on that 12th house cusp and opposite Saturn I think makes the way we express anger and strong feelings very similar since my Mars is also 12th house and squaring Pluto. It's a desperate attempt to control your emotions/anger and an overwhelming feeling of fear when you can't. I think what I'm describing is just a very strong feeling of being able to relate to him and the way he deals with his planetary energy.
It's a platonic energy in that I don't want him to miss out on all those opportunities to be with other people his age, but I can't say I'm not physically attracted to him. I'd definitely enjoy hanging out with him on occasion and getting closer to him as a friend... I guess with benefits. lol I think there is a lot we could learn from one another with that generation gap too.
 The Following User Says Thank You to RubyTuesday For This Useful Post: ElenaJ (11-14-2019)

 Tags balancing, contacts, energy, synastry, tsquare

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