SniperBomber328
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Really? I thought that if the Sun was over the Asc line then it was Diurnal, and if it was below the Asc line then it is Nocturnal, at least that's what someone told me.
Ugh....That means Mars ruled my first part of life, and the venus. Geez that really does confuse me, since Venus is more afflicted then Mars, and my first part of life was horrible compared to me second, or what feels like second.
ANTON GARTHGot your chart handy?
The other way to do it, and it's accurate for most people, is to take an honest look at your life and see which triplicity ruler matches it the best.
If your Sun is above the ascendant then it's your sect light. Why that would change with different house systems is beyond me. Even whole signs usually mark the ascending degree. Is it above that? If so, it's above the horizon.
Granted, for other purposes of delineation it would be conjunct the ascendant, but all we're trying to determine here is whether it's above or below the line. Unless, like so many of my clients, you're one of those troublemakers who was born with the sun right ON the ASC/DSC line!
That takes a bit more work.
ETA I just found your chart in another thread. Sun is above the ascendant, so your triplicity rulers are Venus, Mars, and the Moon, in that order.
This stuff is complicated.
I have a nocturnal chart, with Moon in feminine sign Capricorn. So the triplicity rulers are Moon, Venus and Mars. So the Moon is the 1st Trigon lord... of Moon?? So I'd look at it's own placement to see whether it's trouble? It is in 8th house whole sign, and by sign/house it is oppose Sun, inconjunct Mercury, sextile Jupiter, trine Venus and semi-sextile Saturn (I think). Capricorn is also the sign of Moon's detriment.
8H seems like a bad placement, just by the fact that it is inconjunct the 3rd house, where Moon is in "joy". I'm thinking, when determining how the house position is going to affect the expression of a planet, the aspect relationship between the house it is in and the house of that planet's joy will give an indication. For instance, Saturn is in joy in 12th, and in my chart it is located in the 7th whole house, so that would be an inconjunct. Saturn has difficulties expressing it's best qualities in the 7th, and it's "malefic" status will likely manifest because of it. However, the lesser malefic Mars is in the 8th house whole sign, making a sextile aspect to the 6th house, so 8th house is a productive place for Mars to be.
I'm still confused by Olivia's explanation of which are angular and succedent houses based on the Ascendent. I would think 9H house would be cadent and 8H succedent, 7H angular regardless?
Both benefics in my chart are out of sect while both malefics are in sect. Would that have the effect of diminishing the "fruits" of the benefics, but mitigating the difficulties of the malefics? My first thought would be that this is a zero-sum!
The triplicity lord for earth signs in nocturnal births is the moon. Thus your moon has +3 points of triplicity rulership, which nearly cancels out the -4 points debility it has for being in its fall. it being in trip rulership also cancels out peregrine status.
Saturn being in joy in the 12th is a reinvention of astrology by more modern traditionalists, according to manilius Saturns temple was actually the 4th house. Later on astrologers invented the idea of him joying in 12 to keep it line with their idea of sect. A strong malefic in a malefic house can cause serious problems for a person. Unless Saturn were seriously debilitated, I wouldnt want him in a malefic house.
Hi Flapjacks,
This is most likely not true, but was common thought a few years ago. Since then we have texts from Manilius's contemporaries (mainly Thrasyllus of Mendes) that utilize the same Saturn in the Twelfth, Venus in the Fifth framework that we think of today when we use the planetary joys. This implies that Manilius was probably using an alternate - instead of the original - scheme.
You started off well with identifying the triplicity lords of the sect light. A nocturnal birth, look to the Moon. The Moon is in an Earth Sign, and the lords are Moon, Venus, and Mars. So, you need to investigate the Moon to get a general idea of what the first third of your life is going to be like. In detriment, in a bad house, but has good aspects with the benefics and presumably is adverse to the malefics since you did not mention them. This seems like a life that has general gloomy overtones, but the native gets through with the support of other people or perhaps good coping skills.
You would then repeat this investigation with Venus. Is she essentially dignified or debilitated? How about accidentally? This would give you a general description of the second third of your life. Finally, you would similarly investigate Mars to understand the final third of life.
"Cadent" has two uses. There is "cadent from the angles" which are those houses which we typically think of when we think "cadent"; the Third, Sixth, Ninth, and Twelfth. However, "cadent from the Ascendant" is a different matter and relates to those houses that we normally identify as "dark" houses, the ones that don't aspect the Ascendant; the Second, Sixth, Eighth, and Twelfth. Olivia is referring to the dark houses.
This isn't possible, mostly.
There will always be one benefic and one malefic in sect in general. This depends on if the chart is diurnal or nocturnal. Saturn and Jupiter are in sect in diurnal charts (and so perform more fortuitously for the native). Venus in Mars are in sect in nocturnal charts (who will perform advantageously as well. However, it is possible to have planets out of sect in more minor sect considerations like hayz and halb, but the general diurnal/nocturnal consideration has always been the most significant.
dr. farr said:In the (fragments) from Thrasyllus, and on through the texts from Valens and other early Hellenists, we find the Saturn in 12th/Venus in 5th Joy doctrine clearly established. It is my belief that Manilius represented a DIFFERENT ancient astrological stream (seperate from the Egyptian-Alexandrian genesis), which belief could be supported not only by the Saturn/4th Venus/10th Joy doctrine, but also in a number of other differences from the Alexandrian mainstream doctrines, found in Manilius (such as the Manilius decans, the duodenary based terms/bounds of 30 minutes of arc each, etc etc) My own leaning is that Manilius might have been the last exponent of an ancient stream possibly centering in Antioch, and which itself might have been a westward extension of an Irano/Indic current arising perhaps in the Indo-Greek Empire (180 BC - 10 AD), possibly at Alexandria-on-the Causcasus or Alexandria-on-the-Indus.
flapjacks said:What I mean by out of sect (at least how I've heard this term used) is that Moon is above the horizon so Venus and Mars are also better placed above the horizon to be in sect (with moon). However, Venus is below the horizon with Mars is above. Jupiter and Saturn would be better placed below the horizon with Sun to be "in sect" but Jupiter is above the horizon while Saturn is below. That is what I've read, anyway... Of course, I could have understood these terms wrong.