Hyleg and Alcocoden

I shall do some research - however he could be one of those cases similar to Charlie Chaplain - having no certain time of birth. Charlie Chaplain is a complete mystery, even the FBI/MI5 et al could not discover any record of his birth!:smile:
scotty beckett time of birth 8:23 am.

Birthname Nicol Williamson
born on 14 September 1936 at 04:45 (= 04:45 AM ) Place Hamilton, Scotland
sun is the hyleg,saturn is the giver of life.

saturn peregrine 57 years

57 years but he lived 75 year
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
scotty beckett time of birth 8:23 am.
Birthname Nicol Williamson
born on 14 September 1936 at 04:45 (= 04:45 AM ) Place Hamilton, Scotland
sun is the hyleg,saturn is the giver of life.
saturn peregrine 57 years
57 years but he lived 75 year
At this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol_Williamson it is admitted that "Many sources give an incorrect date of birth, stating that Nicol Williamson was born in 1938 rather than 1936"

so how reliable is the time of birth terrcolomba?:smile:
 
Birthname Elizabeth Rosemond Taylor born on 27 February 1932 at 02:15 (= 02:15 AM ) Place London, England
  • Death by Disease 23 March 2011 at 01:28 AM in Los Angeles, CA (Congestive heart failure, age 79)

her hyleg is moon alcocoden is the sun

sun is 69.5 years
sun is parallel and in venus term and exalt 8 years 45 months

81 and 3 months but she lived 79 years
 
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Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".
It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.

Its very rare to be on the spot with months or days precisely as we were with the Whitney Houston's death.
For example, in the Elvis Prestley's chart, I've calculated 42 years give by the Alcocoden Jupiter, but in the same year when the 'protection' of the Alcocoden has finished Elvis entered the South Node Fridaria, and guess what, the South Node in the natal is in the 8th house. So this was meant to be the year in which Elvis would die.
But sometimes, after the protection of the Alkokoden is over, God gives the man some years plus till some other indicator indicates death.
We talk about the Life here - the most precious thing, once taken away is never getting back. (At least from the physical standpoint).
 

waybread

Well-known member
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".
It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.....

Amen to that.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".

It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.

Its very rare to be on the spot with months or days precisely as we were with the Whitney Houston's death.


For example, in the Elvis Prestley's chart, I've calculated 42 years give by the Alcocoden Jupiter, but in the same year when the 'protection' of the Alcocoden has finished Elvis entered the South Node Fridaria, and guess what, the South Node in the natal is in the 8th house. So this was meant to be the year in which Elvis would die.
But sometimes, after the protection of the Alkokoden is over, God gives the man some years plus till some other indicator indicates death.

We talk about the Life here - the most precious thing, once taken away is never getting back. (At least from the physical standpoint)
.
Exactly... well said Omnisphericus :smile:
 
Terrcolomba, do not worry if you are off with 2-3 years. Robert Zoller says: "If you are off 2-3 years, you have found the Alkokoden".
It is not an easy thing to predict death precisely, and it is in the hands of what we may call it God, not in the hands of the astrologers.

Its very rare to be on the spot with months or days precisely as we were with the Whitney Houston's death.
For example, in the Elvis Prestley's chart, I've calculated 42 years give by the Alcocoden Jupiter, but in the same year when the 'protection' of the Alcocoden has finished Elvis entered the South Node Fridaria, and guess what, the South Node in the natal is in the 8th house. So this was meant to be the year in which Elvis would die.
But sometimes, after the protection of the Alkokoden is over, God gives the man some years plus till some other indicator indicates death.
We talk about the Life here - the most precious thing, once taken away is never getting back. (At least from the physical standpoint).
what about scotty beckett and nicol williamson(off with 18 years)? could you try other methods ?

In your first post you have used the method of summary from all the authors (of what almost all authors agree), where have you found this method?

who are all the authors?

could you post Abu Ali's method? thanks Omnisphericus
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Abu Ali's method

I think Steven Birchfield made the summary.

Abu Ali's summary:

For Hyleg:
1. The potential Hyleg must be angular or succedent
2. If the Sun, must be in a masculine sign or quarter (1,11,12,4,5,6)
3. If the Moon, must be in a feminine sign or quarter (1,2,3,7,8,9)
4. Must be aspected by one of it’s domicile, term exaltation, triplicity or decan rulers.
5. If the Part of Fortune is used it must be aspected by its domicile, exaltation or
term ruler (triplicity rulers don’t count)

For Alkokoden Abu Ali says pretty much the same as the other authors:
to find the planet which has most dignities in the place of the Hyleg and who is aspecting the Hyleg.
If there are more than one potential alkokodens (more than one are aspecting it), take the one who is nearest to the Hyleg (by Zodiacal State, instead of the aspect by degrees as Bonatti states).

The angular Alkokoden gives the major years, succedent - middle, and cadent = minor.

Abu Ali says that South Node in conjunction to the Alcocoden takes 1/4 of his years, while North Node adds 1/4 of the Alcocoden's years (Bonatti rejects the North Node adding, while he agree with the South Node taking).

Benefic in conjunction, sextile, trine, and strong in state gives its minor years; if its in medium strength adds its minor years as months; if in weak state adds its minor years as hours. (Just to note that Bonatti says that Benefic add years through opposition and square too while Abu Ali says that if in bad aspect neither add neither subtracts)

Malefic in square or opposition subtracts its minor years.
Malefic in good aspect neither add nor subtracts.

Mercury, if with fortunes, will add his minor years; with malefics, subtract his minor
years.

It seems out that Abu Ali suggest that if Hyleg is directed to some malefic body, that brings "Destruction to the native", and some think this means that this is so regardless the years of the Alcocoden.
I think this is true, and there is why we can't find the Alcocoden of some tragically died persons.
 
Re: Abu Ali's method

I think Steven Birchfield made the summary.

Abu Ali's summary:

For Hyleg:
1. The potential Hyleg must be angular or succedent
2. If the Sun, must be in a masculine sign or quarter (1,11,12,4,5,6)
3. If the Moon, must be in a feminine sign or quarter (1,2,3,7,8,9)
4. Must be aspected by one of it’s domicile, term exaltation, triplicity or decan rulers.
5. If the Part of Fortune is used it must be aspected by its domicile, exaltation or
term ruler (triplicity rulers don’t count)

For Alkokoden Abu Ali says pretty much the same as the other authors:
to find the planet which has most dignities in the place of the Hyleg and who is aspecting the Hyleg.
If there are more than one potential alkokodens (more than one are aspecting it), take the one who is nearest to the Hyleg (by Zodiacal State, instead of the aspect by degrees as Bonatti states).

The angular Alkokoden gives the major years, succedent - middle, and cadent = minor.

Abu Ali says that South Node in conjunction to the Alcocoden takes 1/4 of his years, while North Node adds 1/4 of the Alcocoden's years (Bonatti rejects the North Node adding, while he agree with the South Node taking).

Benefic in conjunction, sextile, trine, and strong in state gives its minor years; if its in medium strength adds its minor years as months; if in weak state adds its minor years as hours. (Just to note that Bonatti says that Benefic add years through opposition and square too while Abu Ali says that if in bad aspect neither add neither subtracts)

Malefic in square or opposition subtracts its minor years.
Malefic in good aspect neither add nor subtracts.

Mercury, if with fortunes, will add his minor years; with malefics, subtract his minor
years.

It seems out that Abu Ali suggest that if Hyleg is directed to some malefic body, that brings "Destruction to the native", and some think this means that this is so regardless the years of the Alcocoden.
I think this is true, and there is why we can't find the Alcocoden of some tragically died persons.

thanks Omnisphericus.

by Abu Ali, their hyleg is the sun.
nicol williamson alcocoden is saturn and scotty beckett alcocoden is mercury
scotty mercury is 48 years trine jupiter 60 years but he lived 39 years. nicol williamson saturn is 43.5 years but he lived 75 year.

primary directions?

scotty beckett
the hyleg sun is 10 libra directed to 28 libra mars, no death
directed to 13 scorpio south node
33 years but he lived 39 years.

nicol williamson hyleg sun is not directed to any malefics.

could you try other methods to find their correct hyleg and alcocoden ? i posted their date of birth etc in my earlier posts


elizabath taylor hyleg is moon
66.5 square jupiter (bonatti) 78.5 and 11 months
79.5 years, she died March 23, 2011,aged 79 and 1 month

who are all the authors of the hyleg and alcocoden methods?
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Finding the Anareta

thanks Omnisphericus.

by Abu Ali, their hyleg is the sun.
nicol williamson alcocoden is saturn and scotty beckett alcocoden is mercury
scotty mercury is 48 years trine jupiter 60 years but he lived 39 years. nicol williamson saturn is 43.5 years but he lived 75 year.

primary directions?

scotty beckett
the hyleg sun is 10 libra directed to 28 libra mars, no death
directed to 13 scorpio south node
33 years but he lived 39 years.

nicol williamson hyleg sun is not directed to any malefics.

could you try other methods to find their correct hyleg and alcocoden ? i posted their date of birth etc in my earlier posts


elizabath taylor hyleg is moon
66.5 square jupiter (bonatti) 78.5 and 11 months
79.5 years, she died March 23, 2011,aged 79 and 1 month

who are all the authors of the hyleg and alcocoden methods?

Terrocolomba, try finding the Anareta.

The Method

Find the dispositor (all the rulers of the places including the 3 triplicity rulers) of these places:

- Ascendant
- Pars of Death (ASC + HC8 - MO)
- Lord of the Pars of Death
- 4th house
- Ruler of the 4th house
- The first triplicity ruler of the 4th house (you find its place and calculate its dispositors)
- The cusp on the 8th sign fron Sun.
- The ruler of the 8th sign from Sun.

The planet which gets most points in all these places is called the Anareta (The Killing Planet).
Once you know the Anareta, you check the Primary Directions of that planet to angles, especially AC, or to the Hyleg. Also directions to the planets in the 8th house in the horoscope, because they are natural representative of death by the accident placement in the house.

Check for example the chart of Sharon Tate.
Her Anareta is Mercury, and on the day she was killed, Mercury by direction conjucted the Cauda Draconis (South Node) in 8th. She was also in Firdaria Mercury period.
The profected ascendant was also in the 8th sign from the Sun.
Remember, the SUn is the natural giver of life, the Moon of body.

You need to get a good grip on all the techniques before you prepeare your self to judge death in the horoscope. It is not an easy thing and it is not a thing with which we can play.
Don't look all the proofs in the Hyleg and Alkokoden only. The technique is a tricky one and there is no general rule applied to all the cases.
You need to combine the techniques, this is the Art! ;)
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: Finding the Anareta

And I heartily second Omnisphericus emphasis! You need to combine the techniques!! You need to look at the results/indications of 2 or 3 approaches, before even attempting to approach a prognostication. And, all of these methods are part of advanced astrological practice, so one must get the basics and THEN go on to study and understand the more advanced material. That's just the way things are regarding this very complex area of astrological study (longevity, critical years approximations)...
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Robert Zoller's Quote

Here is one very important quote from the great experience of the great astrologer Robert Zoller (Regarding Hyleg and Alcocoden):

I have been working with this doctrine now for 20 years. I am convinced
that it was intended as an approximation of the length of the native’s life
rather than as a precise measure of life. The precise determination of the
length of life requires the application of Ptolemy’s Prorogation Method
(Tetrabiblos III.10), i.e. of the Primary Direction of the Apheta (killing point) to the Anaereta (Hyleg).
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Bonatti's summary again

I'm still rereading Bonatti's material on finding the Hyleg and Alcocoden and trying to grasp this subject.
Zoller recommends to combine the method of Ptolemy and Bonatti.
To find the approximation given by the Alcocoden and then by direction to find the Killing Planet coming (when) on the Hyleg.

For day charts Bonatti says to look for the Sun in the 1st, 10th and 11th.
If in 7,8,9 it should be in Masculine Sign.

To be Hyleg it must receive an aspect by the 5 possible dispositors (domicile/exaltation/triplicities/term/face).

For the night chart you look for the Moon in angular or succedent house and in feminine sign. (I guess this is if its in house other then 1,10,11). But later on Bonatti says that the sex of the sign does not matter. Although it is good to be in masculine sign if in male chart or in feminine sign if in female chart.
Again, the rule for having an aspect from the dispositor is on.

Bonatti also makes an exception of the cadent houses allowing Moon to be Hyleg in the 3rd because it is the place of her Joy and because the Moon is foundation of the 3rd.

If Sun or Moon cannot be Hyleg, you look to the Syzygy to see if the geniture is Preventional (full moon prior the birth) or Conjunctional (new moon prior the birth).

If it is Preventional, you search for possible Hyleg in Part of Fortune.
If it is Conjunctional you look to the Ascending Degree and if its dispositors or the Moon are aspecting it (Moon because signifies the Body), then it can be Hyleg.

If none of this can be Hyleg, then you take the Pre-natal lunation degree to be Hyleg. And the same rule of the dispositors apsecting it is applied.

If you find the Hyleg who has more then one rulers aspecting it, you take the one who is more close by aspect or conjunction to it, to be Alcocoden.
And if they all aspect equally, you will take the one who is stronger in its own place and has dignity better then the other ones, to be the Alcocoden.

“After you have determined the Hyleg and the Alcocoden, you are able
to determine the number of years of the native’s life.”
Says Bonatti.

“The Hyleg signifies the source of life (Radicem Vitae) but the Alcocoden signifies the
number of its years. This is because the condition of life is received
from the Hyleg but the allotting of years from the Alcocoden. However
neither of these suffice for the giving of life to the native without the
other, just as a man, by himself, does not suffice for generating, so
neither does a woman by herself, alone, suffice for conceiving or
bearing. Indeed one is not able to bring forth without the other. The
Hyleg gives life formally, the Alcocoden gives it effectively.”

And about the end of life and how to find it once you had determined the Alcocoden and the (approximate!) years given by it, Bonatti says:

And you will
see in which of those years the Hyleg may come to the bodies of the
malefics or to the places where they were in the nativity or to the square
aspect of them or the opposition or to cauda draconis or to the degree
in which it was in the nativity or to the square aspect of the place in
which the Moon was in the nativity or to the opposition of it giving to
each degree according to the degree of the region one year and unless
a benefic projects its rays to the term in which the Hyleg arrives to the
[place of the] impending malefic, it signifies that the native will die in
that year or month or day, indeed in the hour in which the arrival of
the Hyleg to the aforesaid places or to any one of them is perfected.”

Bonatti next says that if the Hyleg comes to the aforesaid places before the time given by the Alcocoden's years, then the native will have many impediments and troubles but eventually will not die (except because of his own error).
 
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Re: Robert Zoller's Quote

I have been working with this doctrine now for 20 years. I am convinced
that it was intended as an approximation of the length of the native’s life
rather than as a precise measure of life. The precise determination of the
length of life requires the application of Ptolemy’s Prorogation Method
(Tetrabiblos III.10), i.e. of the Primary Direction of the Apheta (killing point) to the Anaereta (Hyleg).
Ptolemy’s hyleg and alcocoden calculation same as bonatti's?

how do you calculate the apheta(killing point)?


bonatti's
Name Darin, Bobby
born on 14 May 1936 at 05:28 (= 05:28 AM ) Place Manhattan, New York
Death by Heart Attack 20 December 1973 (Heart surgery, age 37, in Los Angeles)
For the night chart you look for the Moon in angular or succedent house and in feminine sign. (I guess this is if its in house other then 1,10,11). But later on Bonatti says that the sex of the sign does not matter. Although it is good to be in masculine sign if in male chart or in feminine sign if in female chart.
Again, the rule for having an aspect from the dispositor is on.
if it doesn't matter, moon is the hyleg, mars the alcocoden 39.5 years

if it matters, sun is the hyleg, saturn or moon is the alcocoden, saturn is 43.5 years, moon is 25 jupiter sextile 37 years = correct but mars is square and if you subtract that it is not correct.
And you will
see in which of those years the Hyleg may come to the bodies of the
malefics or to the places where they were in the nativity or to the square
aspect of them or the opposition or to cauda draconis or to the degree
in which it was in the nativity or to the square aspect of the place in
which the Moon was in the nativity or to the opposition of it giving to
each degree according to the degree of the region one year and unless
a benefic projects its rays to the term in which the Hyleg arrives to the
[place of the] impending malefic, it signifies that the native will die in
that year or month or day, indeed in the hour in which the arrival of
the Hyleg to the aforesaid places or to any one of them is perfected.”
progression or directions?
saturn is not directed or progressed to any and moon is directed to square cauda draconis but 40 degrees,he lived 37 years
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Calculating the Anareta - the Killing Planet

Ptolemy’s hyleg and alcocoden calculation same as bonatti's?

No, Ptolemy did not even had Alcocoden.
He was allowing Hyleg to be only in the upper hemisphere (above the earth).
His Hylegical (productive) places are only 1/10/11 and 7/9 if in masculine signs.
Once he found the Hyleg he than looked at the directions, when the Hyleg was directed to malefics, or when the killing planet (see bellow) was directed to the Hyleg or the angles (especially AC, because AC represents the Body).



how do you calculate the apheta(killing point)?

The method.
Calculate the dispositors of all these places:

1. Ascendant (5 for domicile ruler, 4 for exaltation ruler, 3 for all triplicity rulers, 2 for term, 1 for face).
2. Parth of Death (AC + HC8 - Moon)
3. Ruler of the Part of Death
4. 4th house
5. Ruler of the 4th house
6. Triplicity ruler of the 4th house (the first triplicity ruler).
7. 8th sign from the Sun
8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun

The planet that has most dignities in these places is Anareta or the Killing Planet.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Terrocolomba, you now have the methods in hand, you know the calculations and if you want to try the practical side of this art, post your process of calculation here in order for us to see how you found the Hyleg, the Alcocoden, and Anareta.
Step by step.
You are confusing me with your final examinations giving to us only the numbers of which I don't know how did you ever get them. :)
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Example for Anareta in Sharon Tate's chart

hui00m.png


Well, many of the traditional authors says that Anareta should be directed to the Hyleg or to the angles in order to find the years of death of the person.
But I found also to be true that if one has planets or points (as Nodes) in 8th house, than that place would naturally represents dangerous point, because the 8th and everything in it, naturally bears analogy to death.
This is not written in the old texts (that you should direct Anareta to the planets or points in 8th) as far as I'm aware, but it is a logical conclusion of my experience, and we will see that in practice in the following example.

Hyleg is the Ascendant, Alcocoden is Jupiter.
Jupiter because it is angular but retrograde would give the middle years: 45,5.
That is, Moon cadent would give only days or months.
Jupiter does not receive aspect neither by malefic nor by benefic.
So this is it, approximateli 46 years of life.
But she died on her 26th year of life.

I would add that the Ascendant and Jupiter (Hyleg and Alcocoden) are giving antiscia to Saturn and contra-antiscia to Mars. The both Malefics are in sign opposition and antiscia/contra-antiscia relationship with the Ascendant and Jupiter, i.e. Hyleg and Alcocoden.
Saturn is in cadent sign, and Valens says that the cadent Saturn is prone to accidents (add to that the Mars opposition).

But ok, lets now find the Anareta.

1. Ascendant in 22 Cancer
Moon 5 + 3 + 1 = 9
Jupiter 4 + 2 = 6
Venus 3
Mars 3

2. Part of Death in 24 Sag
Jupiter 5 + 3 = 8
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Mercury 2
Moon 1

3. Ruler of POD Jupiter in 18 Cancer
Moon 5 + 3 = 8
Jupiter 4
Venus 3
Mars 3
Mercury 2+1 = 3

4. 4th house in 9Libra
Venus 5
Saturn 4+3 = 7
Mercury 3+2+1 = 6
Jupiter 3

5. Ruler of the 4th house Venus in 20AQ
Saturn 5 + 3 = 8
Mercury 3+1 = 4
Juptier 3 + 2 = 5

6. Ruler of the 4th house triplicity Saturn in 5Gemini
Mercury 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
Saturn 3
Jupiter 3 + 1 = 4

7. 8th sign from the Sun 11Virgo
Mercury 5 + 4 = 9
Venus 3 + 2 + 1 = 6
Mars 3
Moon 3

8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun, Mercury in 3 AQ
Saturn 5 + 3 = 8
Mercury 3 + 2 = 5
Jupiter 3
Venus 1

Overall:
Moon 21
Jupiter 33
Venus 13
Mars 9
Sun 3
Mercury 39
Saturn 29

Mercury is Anareta!

Now we look for the directions (because we already know the time of her death) in 1969 (murdered 9 august 1969).

1z56g4n.png


These are the directions.
As you can see, in the 2nd and 6th month she had Mars directed in opposition to the Ascendant, but Mercury was directed to the conjunction with Cauda Draconis in the 8th house in 8th month two days off the murder.
Cauda Draconis was regarded as Malefic by the traditional authors.

Mercury is Anareta (the Killing planet) in her chart and coming in 8th in Cauda Draconis, did 'killed' her.
It is a sad example, but our Art is of that kind, can show the beautiful times but also the death - inescapable thing for every human being.
 
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Name Darin, Bobby
born on 14 May 1936 at 05:28 (= 05:28 AM ) Place Manhattan, New York
Death by Heart Attack 20 December 1973 (Heart surgery, age 37, in Los Angeles)

lets find the Anareta.

rulership 5 points
exaltation 4
triplicity rulers 3 points
term 2
face 1

1. Ascendant in 17 taurus
Moon 3 +1 =4
Jupiter 4 + 2 = 6
Venus 5 + 3 = 8
Mars 3

2. Part of Death in 7 pisces
Jupiter 5
venus 4 + 2 + 3 = 9
mars 3
Saturn 1
Moon 3

3. Ruler of POD Jupiter in 22 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
saturn 2 + 1 +3 = 6
Jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3

4. 4th house in 28 cancer
Venus 3
moon 5 + 1 +3 = 9
mars 3
Saturn 2
Jupiter 4

5. Ruler of the 4th house moon in 25 aquarius
no exaltation in aquarius
Saturn 5 +3 =8
Mercury 3
Jupiter 2 +3 = 5
moon 1

6. Ruler of the 4th house triplicity mars in 0gemini
Mercury 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
Saturn 3
Jupiter 3 + 1 = 4

7. 8th sign from the Sun 15 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3
saturn 3
Mercury2
Moon 1

8. Ruler of the 8th sign from the Sun, Jupiter in 22 saggitarius
no exaltation in saggitarius
saturn 2 + 1 +3 = 6
Jupiter 5 +3 = 8
sun 3

Overall:
Moon 18
Jupiter 48
Venus 20
Mars 9
Sun 9
Mercury15
Saturn 26

jupiter is Anareta!

Now we look for the directions (because we already know the time of his death) 20 December 1973

i couldn't find anything, do you have any malefic aspects in his chart in 1973 your software Omnisphericus?
 
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