Is Neptune a Malefic?

Akyana

Well-known member
Neptune is the higher octave of Venus.

Thats why for it being beneficial, the person has to be on the higher octave too.

Otherwise Neptune would be like Using 2000 wolts for ordinary bulb,
it would not work ... and Neptune would work as malefic.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
I have Neptune as chart ruler conjunct Mars exactly in Libra in the 8th. I have always suffered self esteem problems but thought that belonged elsewhere but now you have me thinking. True that Neptune can undermine anything it touches but it is also compassion, rehabilitation and indiscriminate aid. It lends glamour and mystery also magic. How we handle it depends on the other aspects, which chart and which sign it occupies.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
CarrieLee said:
I was under the belief that Jupiter is the Higher octave of Venus...where did you find this information TIA

It is my belief that Neptune is the higher octave of Venus. Unconditional love. JUpiter is probably the higher octave of Mercury.......just my thoughts.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
ScorpiosRock said:
Thanks. I was just thinking about where you could see Neptune's influence and it was everywhere. Breath mints, Virtual reality (the internet), perfume, advertising, I even think color is Neptunian.

Colour therapy is Neptunian, yes. Photography yes. Neptune is glamour and illusion so colour plays a part especially to obfuscate and hide, such as camourflage.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Polo said:
I think Neptune can be very good for compassion. I know a man who has this magic ability to heal animals. He could go near a dog known for its violence and turn it into the sweetest pup around. He had a strong Neptune, with Venus trine Neptune for one.
Neptune's abilities can be very hard to manifest here on Earth, but when brought out, they can bring miracles.

I agree that Neptune has to touch the personal planets for us to use it, recognise it and manage it in the real world.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
astrologer50 said:
8th house neptune
Unusual secret circumstances may surround partners money (or whomever your share your finances with)‑ insurance, taxes, and inheritance or efven goods of the dead. Sex and conception, did you conceive easily?
\
I have Neptune in the 8th Libra conjunct Mars and Venus. I feel that although the 8th signifies orgasm I am not sure of actual conception. You may be right. It is also my chart ruler.

scenario: Inheritance due to secret sexual relationship with one who has passed on.

scenario: abstinence from sex due to higher spiritual values and major disappointment or contracting of life threatening infectious disease
 

allie_b

Well-known member
Thanks for expressing your perspective, as I have only known people who have lived the negative, unhealthy side of the Neptune/Asc. conjunction, namely confused, self-deluded, self-pitying, sensitive only to themselves but not others, playing the martyr (you get the picture!).

So, I am quite relieved to know that there are in fact people who are living the higher vibration of Neptune!

Neptune Rising said:
I guess it can be difficult to fathom when there is a prominent Neptune. I have Neptune conjunct North Node in Sagitaruis conjunct Ascendant (12th house side). My life path doesn't seem as clear as other people I know, but I am drawn to yoga/healing/massage/spirituality very much. I think it gives psychic or sensitiveness which can get too much if not grounded. Things like meditation and other inner work help balance the more uncomfortable aspects of Neptune. A goal though for me with N Node/Neptune/Asc conjunct is to teach about the spirituality that I have learned. I have also had direct experience with the more addictive/illusionary/escapist dark side of Neptune, as well as experience through people that I know. So maybe the experience with Neptune's dark side can help to grow and add to the 'light' side...

NR
 

FleetingDasein

Well-known member
I have Neptune in the 10th house, trine to Jupiter in the 1st house.

I don't think of Neptune as a malefic, at least not in my chart, as it is well aspected.

But as always, there's always a feeling of drifting, and no real determination to accomplish things.

I've always felt a natural inclination to the arts and I know I want be a teacher, and hopefully in the long-run, a writer. I think when it comes to Neptune, it's not the direction that's not clear (or hidden) but the actual "getting there".
 

JayM

Well-known member
Yes drifting and addiction can be a problem with neptune, but I suspect that the 2 problems may be one in the same.

I have some questions thought. The pluto in the sky will be transiting my neptune soon and the neptune in the sky is transiting my asc and it seems to be throwing my sense of self image into a state flux and its hard to imagine sort of who I am in the world.

What do you think these transits are doing to me? and what do you think neptune will do to my venus when it gets there?
 

Inside Out Orange

Well-known member
JayM said:
The pluto in the sky will be transiting my neptune soon and the neptune in the sky is transiting my asc and it seems to be throwing my sense of self image into a state flux and its hard to imagine sort of who I am in the world.

With both Pluto and Neptune being slow-moving, generational planets; most people under 50 have experienced this transit in the past 20 years. I had it back in 1996 when Pluto first entered Sagitarrius.

That said, it's difficult for me to exactly work out the effects as in the course of 1994/95/96 I had Pluto square Venus/Moon/Sun, conjunct Jupiter and then Neptune. And of course it goes retrograde and stationary during that time.

I had one friend who got engaged under this transit and married a couple of years later.
 

Inside Out Orange

Well-known member
FWIW I was just reading a couple of days ago that Neptune dissolves Saturn.

Now to anyone who has Saturnine influences (e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented), a transit of Neptune is going to feel malefic.

But looking at it from the perspective of family or people they work with; they'll begin to get a person who is more able to express their love or emotion, who isn't so focused on their work or ambitions.
 

allie_b

Well-known member
How you have described people with Saturninan influences is not true at all. I'm sorry but Saturnian people are not "rule-bound, materialistic, struggling with feelings or goal oriented". Perhaps struggling with feelings of inferiority, that's the closest I could think of.

I myself have a strong influence with Saturn conjunct Venus, ruler of my chart--with Libra rising. A strong Saturn denotes issues with self-esteem, karmic issues, hardship, restriction, and characteristics would be: mature, strong/clear boundaries and viewing things seriously, perhaps gloomily, things along those lines.

That being said, it is a very interesting concept you have introduced. As I have seen Neptune transits as malefic, there could possibly be a (strong natal) Saturn connection with that interpretation of the Neptune transit.

The Neptune effects on this Saturn person would be (and those people viewing her from the outside would see): depression, feeling lost, unable to make a decision, not seeing things clearly, perhaps a lowering of natural boundaries so that unstable, unreliable people unknowingly enter her life, etc..

I want to reiterate that it is my understanding (and from my experience) that Saturn does not restrict feeling, not by itself anyway, nor does it make the native materialistic or goal-oriented, and having no feeling.

Inside Out Orange said:
FWIW I was just reading a couple of days ago that Neptune dissolves Saturn.

Now to anyone who has Saturnine influences (e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented), a transit of Neptune is going to feel malefic.

But looking at it from the perspective of family or people they work with; they'll begin to get a person who is more able to express their love or emotion, who isn't so focused on their work or ambitions.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
Hi Inside Out Orange and Allie,

I think what you have both written is verrry interesting. I too have a prominent Saturn in the 1st house, and have had alot of confidence issues. I agree with what both of you said:

self-esteem, karmic issues, hardship, restriction, and characteristics would be: mature, strong/clear boundaries and viewing things seriously, perhaps gloomily, things along those lines.

and

(e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented),

The only thing I disagree with is the struggles with feelings bit, as Allie said. But I do think that Saturn is goal orientated, as I think this is connected to the maturity and seriousness of the planet, as well as its practical streak. It wants to know what practical difference something can make, and what will actually change. That is very similar to being goal orientated.

I can see how that is the opposite to the Neptune. Lots of people in this thread have said their Neptune gives them no sense of direction. I think this aspect of Neptune is actually a slightly negative influence on a chart. That crippling procrastination and indecisiveness, I have felt it too. I often like to sit and do nothing, in fact it is a Sunday afternoon and I am having a cup of early grey and watching the sun start to set. A part of me says 'what are you doing you have 100000 things to be doing (which I do)' and another part says 'this is nice, this is beautiful, everything else will work out.'

So which planet is good and which planet is bad? I can see them both as being good and bad, but there is this element of deceptiveness with Neptune here I'm not entirely comfortable with. It seduces me, lulls me into contemplation and inaction.

EDIT Neptune is currently on my Mars and square my Sun. But nothing in my chart gets past Pluto. So I know exactly whats going on, even if I feel I can't change it.
 
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allie_b

Well-known member
Sundance,

I just want to point out that Saturn truly does not represent being goal-oriented and being materialistic.

So say, you're reading a chart for a man who has Saturn opposing his Sun, he most likely will have a serious, solemn or gloomy outlook but you could *not* say that he is materialistic or goal oriented just by the Saturn.

I would think a strong Mars up near the MC would reflect a goal oriented person, or Mars square Sun, for instance. And a materialistic person perhaps would have a strong 2nd house/Taurus influence. But neither is related to Saturn at all. Not in my book.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
I agree that Saturn isn't intrinsically materialistic.

But I think that there is an element of practicality with Saturn. So if I was reading a chart for a man with a Sun-Saturn opposition I might read it as saying that his sun, showing his vitality, his creativity, was in conflict with his Saturn, which might seek to know what the practical value of the creativity was worth. Saturn might want to know what the Sun could build or accomplish with its creativity. The achievement need not be for materialistic purposes, but I think as Saturn wants to crystalise, it wants to formalise and make something last.

So if the sun position somehow indicated music as a talent, the Saturn opposition would give a somewhat pessimistic undertone as Saturn might ask what lessons the sun will take, what school of music, what qualifications, what the sun will do with the music (ie write some down, perform for some event, anything apart from informally playing to no particular standard, as to Saturn that would get one nowhere.) Saturn wants to calibrate, it wants to pin down the talent in a way it feels it can rely on. Just as writing down a song makes it more reliable than simply remembering it in ones head. The writing formalises it, in a tangible or comprehensible way.

And so I think as a result of that viewpoint, the sun part of the sun-Saturn complex might feel inferior, aware that there is a lack of accomplishment. There might be self-deprecation as the individual has a higher standard. So he might be asked if he has musical talent, and might say 'I play, but I'm not talented, not a grade so and so.' His confidence is blighted by being compared to a rigid and formal structure.

I hope that makes sense, I've used goal-orientated in a wide sense. Interested in your thoughts,


:)
 
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Inside Out Orange

Well-known member
Ok ... here's what Robert Hand had to say ...

"The difficulty of the planet's influence arises from the fact that Neptune whatever dissolves Saturn builds, such as your ego, your sense of duty and responsibility, your sense of a definite reality and everything else about the world that is definite, clear and predictable. Neptune works against all these structures.

It dissolves or threatens to dissolve your ego, so that initially you feel lost, confused or defeated. But this effect can also make you feel exhilirated and at one with the entire universe. It depends on your level of consciousness. It is safe to say that most people experience the first effect more than the second."

Also from his interpretation of Neptune in the 9th ...

"The problems that this transit creates arise because you are desperately trying to replace the ideas that the transit has invalidated with new ideas. But because of the influence of Neptune, each new idea appears as invalid as the old ones.

The way to handle this dilemma is to wait and allow yourself not to know, to give yourself permission to be ignorant ... [blah, blah, blah] ... It is only the frantic survival efforts of your ego that confuse everything".

And really that's the key. Neptune is about lack of ego. But, of course, people with ego rarely are willing to lose it. And today's world is much more ego-driven than it was in the past. Hence it's harder not to see Neptune as a malefic.
 

estrella

Well-known member
Neptune has it's two faces, just like any other planet. It is not always a malefic-in fact I really like Neptune. I've thought of Pluto as being somewhat malefic, but I've never thought of Neptune that way. Sure, the downside is selfpity, escapism, martyrdom, addiction, mental illness, deceit, and manipulation. But, Neptune can also bring psychic ability, creativity, dreams, higher states of consciousness, shimmer, glamour, trancelike states, and all things mysterious. An afflicted Neptune in the chart could show the areas were one would need to muster the strength of mind to overcome the negative-and become a more enlightened person because of it. I'm really looking forward to Neptune going into Pisces-maybe the world will get over materialism and into spirituality.
Maybe I'm partial to Neptune because of my Pisces sun. Also, it only makes good aspects in my chart and is conjunct my part of fortune in the second house.
 

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