Equal house or Placidus?

Frisiangal said:

Actually, it makes a lot of sense.
Let's say that, using Equal House, a person has planet X in the 11th house. Planet X is yellow, the house is blue, so planet X takes on a 'greeny' tinge when dealing with the realm of life that the sign on the 11th house cusp implies. Yet planet X is ruler of the 2nd house. So, would the 'greeny' tinge that occurs through the 11th house say anything about the values/self worth the person experiences of and in the 11th house realm?

Yet, using another house system which provides different house cusps, planet X is still in the blue house, but it is not ruler of the 2nd house but of the 1st or 3rd house. It's these house realms that will be influential in dealing with 11th house circumstances. So, would being a member of an 11th house green gang give him/her (X, ruler 1st house) personal importance, whilst the 3rd house influence could be suggestive of joining the 11th house green gang in order to teach/learn (from) them?

This is the method I was taught years before Bernadette Brady explained the same system (with diagrams) in her book, 'The Eagle and the Lark' a.k.a 'Predictive Astrology'.

Thanks, I see exactly where you are coming from, due to intercepted signs/houses with placidus. Yes, technically I agree,but most beginners (usually) cannot even make this house connection from planet to house -- let alone understand that connection, cos it takes a 'lot' of objectivity and self analysis. Having said this I have proved time and again the validity of Equal in my own chart using Equal


Well....considering I was only ever taught the use of Equal House system by one Faculty????? But that which came after 'although' was my own deduction. Gosh I quite agree, I'm qualified to teach in Adult Educ and have written my own beginners Diploma and lecture publicly....



I guess that's a question of personal perspective for those who work with Equal House, especially if one is more 'conscious-raising' inclined.

I'm not 'knocking' usage of Equal House, which I have come to understand is your personal preference; just mentioning to those new to astrology how different techniques can be tested without prejudice to find their own personal preference.

Frisiangal

Click to expand...

Cos this is GL and newbies may find all this a little daunting I'm posting some links for further research.

Where in a chart does a person see himself
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=157562#post157562


Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463

this is GL and newbies may find all this a little daunting

Click to expand...

Astrologer50, I wished they indeed were all "newbies" to astrology, but many posters know quite a lot of astrology but just dont want to make a bit of an attempt to interprete their charts /questions and so end up here because we have to move them here!! Pity really. But thanks for the links anyways, those are always helpful.

Frisiangal, I find that example you gave from Bernadette Brady very useful indeed, especially for those who get totally confused about houserulers etc.!

I also understand Astrologer50's point of view. The Equal House system is indeed much more simple to start with instead of getting involved with intercepted houses and all that. I also think that the system you were initially taught, is the one you tend to stick to, unless you are a real "investigator" type and want to try out each system. I never did that. I am happy with the one I used from the beginning and that was Placidus. Had I started out with Equal or Whole house system, then I guess I would have stuck to those.

I found this thread when I was researching the Equal House system. I've used Placidus for almost 30 years and have always found it accurate, but over the past five years or so I've had many more interneational clients than before. So recently when I have a client from the northern latitudes whose Midheaven lends itself to easy testing I've been looking at both Placidus and Equal House, and after doing this with five charts now I have found that Equal House is not accurate, at least not in my practice with these clients.

Yesterday I had the best test case ever - six planets in one sign (including the Sun) and two more grouped right next to the six, so they were all in the twelfth house (Placidus) or eleventh (Equal House). It was clear that the twelfth house was where his world was centered. His Midheaven was either 27 Sag (P) or 24 Sag (EH), so we looked at major events and found that they definitely lined up with the 27 Sag MC. His Moon was either in the 8th house (Placidus) or 9th house (EH), and it was clear that the 8th house Moon was the one that fit.

Placidus has always worked well for me and provided accurate chart interpretations, but when I started reading about Equal House for northern latitudes I thought maybe that would be worth checking out. But after this experiment I'll stick to Placidus.

lynnhayes said:

Placidus has always worked well for me and provided accurate chart interpretations, but when I started reading about Equal House for northern latitudes I thought maybe that would be worth checking out. But after this experiment I'll stick to Placidus.

Click to expand...

Same here. I didn't do an extensive research, but I have friends in Norway and I tried to read their charts in Equal house and didn't make heads with tails...

Example: one of them was a woman. Her 1st and 7th axis was huge and the other houses were all squeezed. I checked the birth of her children and there was always a 5th or 11th house situation going on when they were born, while Equal house didn't seem to make that much sense with the theme.

The look of the charts for people born up north may turn people off the use of Placidus, but I got past the first impression and actually read the chart, squeezed as it was, and thought Placidus was more accurate.

For a while now I've been using placidus. However, I took a look over my equal house chart and noticed that Jupiter moves from the 3rd to the 4th, and Saturn moves from the 11th to 12th. I think the equal house placements of Jupiter and Saturn apply to me more than placidus.

However, in placidus there are interceptions/duplications, and I think there is something to that. I can't really just ignore the interceptions. There must be some kind of meaning. I have indeed noticed that my intercepted planets do seem to be "locked away" at times like people say.

But yet, I don't really feel Jupiter's energy at all and it isn't even intercepted. Which makes me wonder why I feel Jupiter may apply to me more in equal house, when I can't really feel it's influence. Makes no sense at all, but that's still what I think.

I used just Placidus in the early days, but am also especially conscious of Equal and Whole Sign interpretations. The long-held view that Placidus is the result of a misinterpretation, as Whole Sign peddlers often quote, concerns me. Plus, Equal and Whole are much older...which I have respect for, though, that should not discount the developments we have made since then...

I also have giant and tiny house sizes in Placidus, and despite what Placidus users often say about it being relevant to us, I agree with Astro50: that it could be a failure of the system rather than having meaning. I think that the area of interceptions is just too shady. I have always found it to be almost ad-hoc. I don't trust it. And I have no trouble with the MC and 10th cusp not aligning in the other two systems.

And as I've mentioned in other posts on this issue, I think that while there may be validity in us using whichever 'works' for us, I think this is perhaps the most inconsistent area of astrology, and a prime location of attack from critics. And to add a more personal criticism, I think that one of us offering an interpretation to a friend/client of a very 'important' planet resident in one house, while another of us interpret it in another house because we use a different system, is a mixture of embarrassing and dangerous to the profession....I'm afraid to interpret other people's charts now because I'm caught in this maelstrom of house system doubt... I'm trying to work it out myself before I work on others again.

THOUGH- I have total respect for those that are very confident in their system, actually, that provides strength to this area, I think. So let us continue on march of discovery!

Let me add something to this discussion which we actually have had many times in the past. The fact that one system works seemingly better than another, in my humble opinion, depends totally on the intuition of the astrologer.

I does not matter which system you use, you will get the same results overall, when you listen to your intuition. I see the natal chart as a medium through which I can unleash my intuition. Like a person looking into a hand for lines, or a teacup with leaves, or a glass ball. We all have a talent for the one or the other method. I dont "feel" anything when looking at tealeaves, but when I look at a chart, I immediately feel the person, even before I have interpreted the chart. I feel the tension or anything else coming from it. So I use that chart to bring my intuitive feelings to the surface and only after doing that, I look at the planets etc.

If I take an equal houses chart or a placidus chart, I get the same interpretation. I only use Placidus because I think I can get more information because of the different sized houses. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe equal would give me exactly the same amount of info.
If I see a planet in house 8 in one chart and in house 9 in the other, then I can find the 8th house connection somewhere else in the 9th house planet's chart and a 9th house connection somewhere else in the 8th house planet's chart. Can you still follow me? I have trouble explaining this.




It is the same with Chiron. If I see Chiron in 7, I always find Venus afflictions. So in fact, I dont really need to interprete Chiron, because I can find that "suffering and wound" clearly expressed by aspects to Venus or the Ascendant, the water houses afflicted etc.

Lin said:

As I've stated on other threads, I've used Placidus-tropical for over 30 years and have never questioned it's validity.
However, if you mean to seriously study astrology, and if you for some reason feel that Placidus may not be for you, you can study a control group of people...say 10 to 15 subjects and use 3 or 4 different systems, and without prejudice study their lives for a year or so and discuss their lives with them, and see which of the charts most closely correlate to what is actually happening.

And once you decide on a system, stick to it or you will confuse yourself no end. You need to have confidence in the system you use or others will not have confidence in you.
LIN

Click to expand...

I agree with and it is a very vexed question. For me personally there is not a whole lot of difference with the various methods and in that I am fortunate. The MC IC Ascendant and Descendant all remain the same and that is important.

astrologer50 said:

To me each house is equal not cos of Equal house system but cos the 'meanings' of the houses are unilateral. It's only the 'planets' in houses that emphasise the areas of life that are more important to the individual-- as with any house system. There are pro's and con's for everything-- so let's not allow this to deteriorate any further

Click to expand...

Empty houses are still important, aren't they? There are Midpoints and Arabian Parts and can't these be triggered by transits? I used to almost ignore my empty houses, but have recently found that they are playing a big role in some of my "stuff" that's coming up from deep within.

Lulubelle, yes, every house is important in the chart. It is just the emphasis that some houses get more of, than others. When a house is full of planets, the focus is more on that house, but all those planets in there are ruling some empty houses, so the meaning of the empty houses, will find an outlet, via their rulers, in another house. Never leave an empty house out of the equation

byjove said:

I think this is perhaps the most inconsistent area of astrology, and a prime location of attack from critics. And to add a more personal criticism, I think that one of us offering an interpretation to a friend/client of a very 'important' planet resident in one house, while another of us interpret it in another house because we use a different system, is a mixture of embarrassing and dangerous to the profession....

Click to expand...

First, the facts. Glasgow is above 55N, and at that latitude someone born with an AC of 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn will have three houses packed into less than 60 degrees. That's the elephant in the room.

That is the largest reason why Equal House is preferred in the UK. There are few places in the world with such temperate weather that are located so close to the Artic Circle, so a large population finds itself with very distorted houses.

However, the same problem occurs with other unequal house systems, since the MC and AC are fixed in all those common systems.

The practical result is that if you are born in the north with an AC of 0 Cancer at that a high latitude, your chances of having almost nothing in house 1 and many planets in house 12 is very high.

The opposite is true in the southern hemisphere. So whatever house system you choose does change everything, and I am also bothered by this inconsistency.

gaer said:

First, the facts. Glasgow is above 55N, and at that latitude someone born with an AC of 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn will have three houses packed into less than 60 degrees. That's the elephant in the room.

That is the largest reason why Equal House is preferred in the UK. There are few places in the world with such temperate weather that are located so close to the Artic Circle, so a large population finds itself with very distorted houses.

However, the same problem occurs with other unequal house systems, since the MC and AC are fixed in all those common systems.

The practical result is that if you are born in the north with an AC of 0 Cancer at that a high latitude, your chances of having almost nothing in house 1 and many planets in house 12 is very high.

The opposite is true in the southern hemisphere. So whatever house system you choose does change everything, and I am also bothered by this inconsistency.

Click to expand...

I understand, I'm familiar with the problem already. The houses in my chart are a little skewed already, and Equal does even out that problem. So I understand why, for technical reasons for example, we do this. I just wish I could 'tidy it up' in my mind. Astrology has proven to understand the tiniest of things about me before I did. And many things which were common with certain aspects have happened. So, with the different interpretations offered to my chart by different house systems, I suppose I'm a little anxious which is 'applicable' to me. For example, Neptune in the 6th or (to me) threateningly in the 7th? Exalted, positive Sun (ruler of the 2nd) happy in the 10th, or actually in the 9th? You know what I mean?

So, with the different interpretations offered to my chart by different house systems, I suppose I'm a little anxious which is 'applicable' to me.

Click to expand...

I can only suggest to you to feel what works for you. You must know if you are more of a 10th house (ambitious!! with ruler of 2 in 10) or a 9th house person, (philosophical, interested in other countries, their religions, their manners etc., being studious)

And with Neptune in the 7th, you could be prone to desillusions in love, expecting far more romance in a relationship than is realistically possible, maybe getting into relationships out of pitty, rather than love, getting cheated on, or, in the 6th, you could maybe have health symptoms which are very difficult to diagnose, you could be allergic to certain things.

Now, should these planets in 9 and 6, in Equal House, be within 5° orb of the next house, you can count them as being in 10 or 7.

Hi Starlink,

You're totally right, in that it should be obvious. But whichever of Placidus/Equal/Whole Sign I look at there is a very strong 9th and 10th anyway, which just meddles with my judgement. I'm extremely ambitious, yet I've plenty of books on 9th house matters: philosophy, religion, languages etc.

So maybe clues lie elsewhere. It can't be love, because Venus ends up in the 9th of Pisces in Placidus/Whole, and I honestly can't answer the question you posed about knowing when too much romance is expected. Capricorn rules my 7th, so, I've a stiff upper lip with this stuff most of the time, but when someone really catches my eye, Venus in Pisces takes over.

Another deal-breaker could be the Moon in the 2nd in Equal or 3rd in the others. But the effects of a negative Moon in 2nd are similar to Moon opposition Venus which I have anyway, isn't it? Some of it. Moon in 3rd sounds right because of Moon in Mercurial Virgo anyway.

It feels like it's obvious but I don't know. If anyone thinks a slap in the face would knock some clarity into me, feel free!

Ha ha! No I wont slap your face, I only slap wrists in this forum

Well, I see that two of the three methods puts your Sun in the 10th and Neptune in 6. In two methods Moon falls in 3, but in Equal it falls in 2. Moon placement is significant so maybe the answer lies there.

I have 3 questions:
1. do you live outside your native country?
2. do you have strong fluctuations in finances? In Equal Moon is in 2, making you very money orientated. You would only feel really safe if your money issues are safe. Does it upset you very much when financially you get a pitfall?

3. you have Chiron in 11 in Equal, but in 12 in whole sign. Where do you feel can we find your "wound"?

The Sun is not close enough in Equal to be considered in the 10th b.t.w.

ByJove, maybe transits could help out here.

Saturn is in your 4th in Placidus and 3rd in equal house. Saturn got into Libra in November.

In Equal house, Saturn entered your 3rd house in October-November, which would trigger events that involve education, the need to develop yourself intellectually, feelings of inadequacy in the formation or education area, desire to teach or learn, etc. I've noticed that people with Saturn transiting the 3rd suddenly decide to go back to school or they jump from one or other discipline or course, looking for some specific knowledge that they didn't acquire before and having trouble finding it. If you got into some kind of academy or school in late 2009, then it's an indicator of a Saturn in the 3rd; problems at school or academy, frustrations, can be another effect of Saturn in the 3rd.

In Placidus, Saturn has just entered your 4th house, and when Saturn enters 4th house, it's hard to not feel its impact: things happen in the family, with the family, problems, misunderstandings, strife, disease or some life-changing event like the birth of another family member. In your case Saturn is squaring Neptune in your 7th, which may point to some tension between family and your romantic partners and desires. It's possible that you are feeling that your family and lovers just wouldn't mix well together, or your family simply wouldn't get the kind of person you want to be with. In Placidus, that is.


In Equal, the square between Saturn and your Neptune in the 6th would show some health problems or psychosomatic issues that involve lack of self-expression or repression of your thoughts; another possible expression of this square would be that you feel your dreams about your daily life and work life are being crushed under the lack or reality of a specific educational formation.

It's hard to separate life is departments like that, but Saturn in a specific house is a very good start point to find out which system works best for you: when Saturn is in a specific house, you just can't seem to think of nothing else, not because you don't want to, but because the other issues and interests seem to pale before the very real trouble that Saturn loves to bring about...

I'm definitely interested in this research, I can't really research it so extensively in my chart because there isn't a lot of pronounced differences between my chart in Placidus or Equal house.

And Rockfish has another very valid way of looking at it. Did not think of that one!
See if some of these transits are working out more in one house or the other.
Olivia's suggestion about the planetary hours I like a lot, I did not know that. This is traditional astrology for you! I am liking it more and more!

starlink said:

Ha ha! No I wont slap your face, I only slap wrists in this forum

Well, I see that two of the three methods puts your Sun in the 10th and Neptune in 6. In two methods Moon falls in 3, but in Equal it falls in 2. Moon placement is significant so maybe the answer lies there.

I have 3 questions:
1. do you live outside your native country?
2. do you have strong fluctuations in finances? In Equal Moon is in 2, making you very money orientated. You would only feel really safe if your money issues are safe. Does it upset you very much when financially you get a pitfall?

3. you have Chiron in 11 in Equal, but in 12 in whole sign. Where do you feel can we find your "wound"?

The Sun is not close enough in Equal to be considered in the 10th b.t.w.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight everyone, and I've read the helpful post below, so I'll use these questions as a focus and answer everything asked as succinctly as I can.

1. I don't live abroad. Though I very very very much want to. I become ecstatic when abroad, everything new and different thrills me. And I've studied many languages precisely to enable a future in many different countries. But maybe even this isn't enough, maybe certain placements would mean I'd have to have left already? Either way, I find everything in my country boring and usual.

2. Strong fluctuations in finances? I suppose. It's never quite stable. And I do tend to spend very quickly when I have it. I definitely do feel a sense of security to 'buying'. Not in a keeping-up-with-the-Jones type, simply, a private sense of self worth is attached to my ability to buy things. I'm always happier when running around buying things.

3. My wound? I can't be sure. I'll say that problems in my love life needed careful attention later on, when I realized I'd covered up and sheltered myself away from people emotionally. Does that count?

Saturn transits....yes I've been watching that. The most important development by far for about a year or so, was around September, when I was forced to stop studying. The next stage of my degree must take place abroad to gain language fluency, which thrills me, but money has collapsed, as it has for many people over the last two years though. So this is the first year I've not studied since I was five...and I've taken this year out to find work, save and continue my degree.

Related to the Saturn transit, Rockfish said:

"In Equal, the square between Saturn and your Neptune in the 6th would show some health problems or psychosomatic issues that involve lack of self-expression or repression of your thoughts; another possible expression of this square would be that you feel your dreams about your daily life and work life are being crushed under the lack or reality of a specific educational formation."

That last part about dreams being crushed under the reality of specific educational formation : that sounds like what's been happening to me, no? I didn't spot that aspect, thank you!

Being so close to the wood, not being able to see the trees...maybe the outside perspective will be very clear on what's what. Much appreciated!

Saturn transits....yes I've been watching that. The most important development by far for about a year or so, was around September, when I was forced to stop studying. The next stage of my degree must take place abroad to gain language fluency, which thrills me, but money has collapsed, as it has for many people over the last two years though. So this is the first year I've not studied since I was five...and I've taken this year out to find work, save and continue my degree.

Click to expand...

This sounds scarily as Saturn in the 3rd configuration.

You say you had to stop studying around September. In Equal House system your 3rd house begins in 27-28 Virgo; Saturn got in your 3rd in the beginning of october, and is still opposing Mercury and Jupiter in the 9th to this day, restricting your movements and studying processes.......


This is VERY interesting. I might take a better look at my Equal House chart. In the Equal House chart, I have Pluto in the cusp of the 10th house, and ME LIKES DAT!!!

If we use Byjove's data for Whole House, his chart remains unchanged from the latitude at which he was born all the way down to a latitude close to the equator. The AC will fall in different places in the 1st house, since the AC changes with latitude, but the houses themselves do not.

Equal House at least keeps planets close to the AC and DC in the same houses as Placidus and other house systems. The weakness there is that two people born with the same AC but at slightly different times and latitudes can also have identical looking charts except for where the MC falls, which will be different.

The advantage of house systems such as Placidus is that only two people born at the exact same latitude will have the same AC and MC on any given day, and a difference in longitude will "rotate" the planets (mostly the Moon) so that no two charts will be exactly the same.