Aries is the Emperor so its a very disciplined sign?
- Thread starter Darth MI
- Start date
junoisuppose
Well-known member
I don't know the answer to this & I'm interested to see what the replies will be.
But re cartomancy, I thought clubs were all fire signs, cups water signs, spades air signs and diamonds earth signs? So the King of Spades would be an older (45+) male born with a lot of gemini, libra or aquarius influence, and the King of Clubs would show an older male with displaying his aries/leo/sagittarius side.
Anyway, awaiting the responses to the main question.
But re cartomancy, I thought clubs were all fire signs, cups water signs, spades air signs and diamonds earth signs? So the King of Spades would be an older (45+) male born with a lot of gemini, libra or aquarius influence, and the King of Clubs would show an older male with displaying his aries/leo/sagittarius side.
Anyway, awaiting the responses to the main question.
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Birch Dragon
Well-known member
Hi DarthMI
(By the way… is that “Darth Michigan”??? If it is, HA! That’s hilarious.)
Re-visiting one of your first threads here, and it does seem that the association between Aries and the Emperor tarot card might give us reason to keep pressing on this issue.
My first response, quickly, is that when you say on the previous thread most of us disagreed with your hypothesis of “Aries as most disciplined” because we simply see Aries as childish and uncontrollably impulsive, I think you are given many of our answers too shallow and unkind a read. In fact, if that’s what you actually think, you should go back and read that thread. There are much more subtle and better responses than that.
Second – This is a great opportunity to think more subtly and interpretively about words and concepts in general.
When we say Aries is associated with leadership, what do we mean by “leadership.” As almost every concept, “leadership” isn’t a clear, simple, single idea with a clear, simple monolithic meaning. When we say the word “leadership” we harken all manner of denotations and connotations. I’d suggest that while Aries might be immediately associable with some, Leo can be with others, and so too Cancer, Libra and Capricorn (the angular signs).
What kind of leadership does Aries signify?
Psychological studies have suggested (can’t remember where I read it, though…) that in a room of people, the mass will (subconsciously or otherwise) look to the first person that speaks as a kind of leader figure. The first person to speak up thereafter gets granted by the rest of the people a sense of leadership. Aries, is, first and foremost, this kind of leader. Aries the leader that gets thrust into leadership simply because he’s the first to open his mouth, or present an idea. Aries simply starts, and so “leads” by simply being first in line. (We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a group charged with some task, and all looking around at each other awkwardly, wondering what to do first. Aries is the one who can’t take the awkward silence and staring and just jumps in, out of impestuousness, and says “lets do this.”
But does that mean that Aries is the best energy to craft plans, to materialize them into exist? To have the patience to try and to err? To do and do again and again until the thing actually functions in the material world? No. I suspect that’s Capricorn… and that speaks more to the disciplined side of a leader. Aries is not that leader. And perhaps the Emperor in the tarot deck doesn’t represent that kind of energy.
Similarly, Aries isn’t the glorious, radiant queen either, whose charisma awes all (whether she deserves it or not).
If you ever read ancient Confucian texts, their vision of a good king is one who simply is and does good, and then that goodness radiates off of him, so the people learn by example. It is in this way that the king rules, more so than by decree and law. This is much more, to my mind, the kind of leadership Leo signifies.
For me, Aries is more Achilles than Agamemnon or Priam. Achilles is a guy the Greeks would gladly follow into battle because he’s an unbeatable hero. But Achilles wasn’t drawing up strategy and battle plans. it wash;t his idea to attack Troy. He certainly didn't gather all the Greek cities into an army. He wasn’t even really leading an army on the battlefield. People maybe followed him, and he had a band of warriors that were "his." But really he was just out there fighting - just the best, most creative and inspired fighter there was. He was just there for battle and self-glory, not rulership of a large collection of people.
Aries signifies irrepressible determination. But that’s different than discipline.
And the determined leader isn’t necessarily the disciplined leader.
(By the way… is that “Darth Michigan”??? If it is, HA! That’s hilarious.)
Re-visiting one of your first threads here, and it does seem that the association between Aries and the Emperor tarot card might give us reason to keep pressing on this issue.
My first response, quickly, is that when you say on the previous thread most of us disagreed with your hypothesis of “Aries as most disciplined” because we simply see Aries as childish and uncontrollably impulsive, I think you are given many of our answers too shallow and unkind a read. In fact, if that’s what you actually think, you should go back and read that thread. There are much more subtle and better responses than that.
Second – This is a great opportunity to think more subtly and interpretively about words and concepts in general.
When we say Aries is associated with leadership, what do we mean by “leadership.” As almost every concept, “leadership” isn’t a clear, simple, single idea with a clear, simple monolithic meaning. When we say the word “leadership” we harken all manner of denotations and connotations. I’d suggest that while Aries might be immediately associable with some, Leo can be with others, and so too Cancer, Libra and Capricorn (the angular signs).
What kind of leadership does Aries signify?
Psychological studies have suggested (can’t remember where I read it, though…) that in a room of people, the mass will (subconsciously or otherwise) look to the first person that speaks as a kind of leader figure. The first person to speak up thereafter gets granted by the rest of the people a sense of leadership. Aries, is, first and foremost, this kind of leader. Aries the leader that gets thrust into leadership simply because he’s the first to open his mouth, or present an idea. Aries simply starts, and so “leads” by simply being first in line. (We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a group charged with some task, and all looking around at each other awkwardly, wondering what to do first. Aries is the one who can’t take the awkward silence and staring and just jumps in, out of impestuousness, and says “lets do this.”
But does that mean that Aries is the best energy to craft plans, to materialize them into exist? To have the patience to try and to err? To do and do again and again until the thing actually functions in the material world? No. I suspect that’s Capricorn… and that speaks more to the disciplined side of a leader. Aries is not that leader. And perhaps the Emperor in the tarot deck doesn’t represent that kind of energy.
Similarly, Aries isn’t the glorious, radiant queen either, whose charisma awes all (whether she deserves it or not).
If you ever read ancient Confucian texts, their vision of a good king is one who simply is and does good, and then that goodness radiates off of him, so the people learn by example. It is in this way that the king rules, more so than by decree and law. This is much more, to my mind, the kind of leadership Leo signifies.
For me, Aries is more Achilles than Agamemnon or Priam. Achilles is a guy the Greeks would gladly follow into battle because he’s an unbeatable hero. But Achilles wasn’t drawing up strategy and battle plans. it wash;t his idea to attack Troy. He certainly didn't gather all the Greek cities into an army. He wasn’t even really leading an army on the battlefield. People maybe followed him, and he had a band of warriors that were "his." But really he was just out there fighting - just the best, most creative and inspired fighter there was. He was just there for battle and self-glory, not rulership of a large collection of people.
Aries signifies irrepressible determination. But that’s different than discipline.
And the determined leader isn’t necessarily the disciplined leader.
Bunraku
Well-known member
Aries is The Magician...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/gbt/gbt08.htm
The Emperor is Cancer
www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/gbt/gbt11.htm
What???
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/gbt/gbt08.htm
The Emperor is Cancer
www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/gbt/gbt11.htm
What???
junoisuppose
Well-known member
I see where you're (they're) coming from - numbering the major arcana cards 0-4. & Magician fits with aries - taking the initiative to start things, but the Magician also fits with gemini - trickery instead of real magic. Or the Fool could fit well with aries - blind optimism & naivety. Both fit with the themes of the beginning of the year, new beginnings and the foolishness of youth. & the Emperor fits well with cancer - protecting the home & family. But if we follow this system the Empress is gemini (?), the Heirophant leo (what does leo have to do with dogmatic religion? perhaps they like ceremonies?) and the Lovers virgo (again, ?). Libra as the chariot might be good though - balancing 2 opposites.
In numerology 1 is the number that starts projects without needing anyone else's permission, & 4 is the number that builds and solidifies, usually the home, so there might be some correlations there.
But there is quite a body of opinion that think that the Emperor is the major arcana card for Aries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_(Tarot_card)
http://www.biddytarot.com/tarot-card-meanings/major-arcana/emperor/
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/emperor.shtml
The wikipedia entry (sorry to lower the tone by quoting wikipedia!) says that aries, and fighting in war, is one of the tools that the Emperor uses to maintain his rule.
Then again, wikipedia also says that the Emperor's mars, follows the Empress's venus (& taurus), so we're actually going backwards around the zodiac!
I'm confused!
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Bunraku
Well-known member
I don't think The Emperor is assigned to any of the zodiac signs if I have to be honest with you. People just try to assign something even when it's not a part of anything.
Here's my quick list:
Aries: The Magician
Creator of Elements, the beginning. Maybe mercury is assigned here because the elements are still in their untouched state and haven't been combined to create something (genderless/neutral if you understand where I'm coming from).
Taurus: The Empress
Taurus rules the land and from that biddytarot website: "The Empress is the archetypal Earth Mother, the Anima, the Feminine Principle, Demeter, Freyja and the Goddess of Fertility. Ruled by Venus, the planet of love, creativity, fertility, art, harmony, luxury, beauty and grace."
Gemini: The Lovers
Well obviously
Cancer: The Chariot
That biddytarot website says:
"The Chariot is associated with the astrological sign of Cancer. He sits within a canopy of six-pointed stars, representing the celestial influences at work in this Tarot card. The crescent moons on the man’s shoulders are outward facing to refer to the formative world. The symbols on his tunic are alchemical symbols, representing the spiritual transformation of man. The square signifies earth, a sign of strength of will. The laurel and star crown indicate the highest attainment of man in spiritual evolution. " seems correct yep.
Leo: Strength
Well there's a lion there, so it must be Leo
Biddytarot says: "The sign associated with the Strength card is Leo."
Virgo: The Hermit
biddytarot: "The astrological correspondence for this card is Virgo and the number 9 signifies accomplishment, wisdom, the attainment of goals, as well as the search for truth."
Libra: Justice
Doesn't need explanation there
Scorpio: Death
"Death is ruled by Scorpio (the sign of ‘sex, death and taxes’) and the number is 13, sacred to the Goddess as there are thirteen moons in a year." -biddytarot
Sagittarius: The Hierophant
That defines Sag
Capricorn: The Devil
biddytarot:
"The number 15 in numerology equals 6, the number that corresponds to the Lovers, and here the lovers are shown chained, in bondage to the material, sensual side of their nature. This card is ruled by Capricorn, the goat"
Aquarius: The Star
Biddytarot says: " The astrological sign of the Star is Aquarius."
Pisces: The Moon
Biddytarot says that "The Moon is the card of intuition, dreams and the unconscious...The astrological sign associated with this card is Pisces – psychic, receptive and mysterious."
Here's my quick list:
Aries: The Magician
Creator of Elements, the beginning. Maybe mercury is assigned here because the elements are still in their untouched state and haven't been combined to create something (genderless/neutral if you understand where I'm coming from).
Taurus: The Empress
Taurus rules the land and from that biddytarot website: "The Empress is the archetypal Earth Mother, the Anima, the Feminine Principle, Demeter, Freyja and the Goddess of Fertility. Ruled by Venus, the planet of love, creativity, fertility, art, harmony, luxury, beauty and grace."
Gemini: The Lovers
Well obviously
Cancer: The Chariot
That biddytarot website says:
"The Chariot is associated with the astrological sign of Cancer. He sits within a canopy of six-pointed stars, representing the celestial influences at work in this Tarot card. The crescent moons on the man’s shoulders are outward facing to refer to the formative world. The symbols on his tunic are alchemical symbols, representing the spiritual transformation of man. The square signifies earth, a sign of strength of will. The laurel and star crown indicate the highest attainment of man in spiritual evolution. " seems correct yep.
Leo: Strength
Well there's a lion there, so it must be Leo
Biddytarot says: "The sign associated with the Strength card is Leo."
Virgo: The Hermit
biddytarot: "The astrological correspondence for this card is Virgo and the number 9 signifies accomplishment, wisdom, the attainment of goals, as well as the search for truth."
Libra: Justice
Doesn't need explanation there
Scorpio: Death
"Death is ruled by Scorpio (the sign of ‘sex, death and taxes’) and the number is 13, sacred to the Goddess as there are thirteen moons in a year." -biddytarot
Sagittarius: The Hierophant
That defines Sag
Capricorn: The Devil
biddytarot:
"The number 15 in numerology equals 6, the number that corresponds to the Lovers, and here the lovers are shown chained, in bondage to the material, sensual side of their nature. This card is ruled by Capricorn, the goat"
Aquarius: The Star
Biddytarot says: " The astrological sign of the Star is Aquarius."
Pisces: The Moon
Biddytarot says that "The Moon is the card of intuition, dreams and the unconscious...The astrological sign associated with this card is Pisces – psychic, receptive and mysterious."
Larxene
Well-known member
Maybe the people who created tarot cards simply had a different understanding of what makes an emperor compared to the creators of astrology's notion of emperors.
Those keywords you mentioned are attributed to Saturn, in the modern understanding of traditional astrology.
Furthermore, if we are talking about which planets represent emperors in the tradition, there are three. The Sun, Jupiter and Mars. Specifically, the Sun is considered to be the authoritarian and royal King who is good at making sound judgments. Jupiter is the popular, just and moderate King. Mars is the general King, brave, physically strong, and serious. These are the positive traits when the planet is well placed.
The negative traits for a Sun kind of King is egoism, narcissistic and attention-seeking. For Jupiter it is a King prone to excesses in food, drink and sexual relations. For Mars it is recklessness, violence and unstable behaviours.
So when we talk about Emperors/Kings, the question is, what kind of?
Those keywords you mentioned are attributed to Saturn, in the modern understanding of traditional astrology.
Furthermore, if we are talking about which planets represent emperors in the tradition, there are three. The Sun, Jupiter and Mars. Specifically, the Sun is considered to be the authoritarian and royal King who is good at making sound judgments. Jupiter is the popular, just and moderate King. Mars is the general King, brave, physically strong, and serious. These are the positive traits when the planet is well placed.
The negative traits for a Sun kind of King is egoism, narcissistic and attention-seeking. For Jupiter it is a King prone to excesses in food, drink and sexual relations. For Mars it is recklessness, violence and unstable behaviours.
So when we talk about Emperors/Kings, the question is, what kind of?
Birch Dragon
Well-known member
Good post!
And the question "What kind of Emperor/King?" resonates with my earlier post.
I think there's essentially two interesting questions being posed by Darth MI in this threat.
1) Does Aries have the traits of an Emperor, and if so, doesn't that mean Aries really is disciplined (as per an early post by Darth)?
2) Why is Aries traditionally associated with the Emperor card?
I think the answer to the first question has already come out on this thread, in a couple of different ways. The question isn't "Which sign fits the idea of an Emperor? Is it Aries?" Instead it's "What kind of leadership qualities does Aries signify, as opposed to other signs and other leadership qualities?" As it turns out, I think, unless we want to pass that point where we're no longer agreeing with some basic tradition and we're just making our own astrology up as we go along, Aries signifies a kind of leadership, but not one where the discipline is a central trait or component of it.
On the second question, I myself don't have an answer... But the posts so far suggest either 1) the association between Aries and Emperor doesn't actually hold after all, or 2) Tarot people are matching and associating cards to signs in ways that belie the more complex understanding of those signs students of astrology tend to have.
Larxene
Well-known member
The issue is the attribution of mostly but not totally Saturnine traits to the Emperor card, and then trying to connect those attributes to Aries simply because the zodiac sign associated with the Emperor happens to be Aries. Association does not work that way, in my opinion. There should be some overlap between Aries and The Emperor, but that does not mean that ALL of Aries's qualities should be present in The Emperor, nor vice versa.
Moreover, Aries's impulsive qualities is due to being the domicile of Mars, but I would like to propose a better reason for it to be associated with The Emperor, rather than simply because it is the "first sign of the zodiac", whatever that actually means. According to the Wikipedia entry, "the sign of the Emperor is associated with the sun sign of Aries". The important phrase here is "sun sign of Aries". This implies Sun in Aries represents The Emperor. This is more in line with traditional astrology, as the Sun is exalted in Aries. According to Maternus, an exalted planet is "raised up to its maximum power". So a Sun in Aries is very authoritative, royal and of sound judgement. The Sun is also the proper significator of authority figures, and The Emperor is a symbol of an authority figure. The Sun is no doubt, more powerful and authoritative than Mars or Jupiter, because without it, there would be no life.
Moreover, Aries's impulsive qualities is due to being the domicile of Mars, but I would like to propose a better reason for it to be associated with The Emperor, rather than simply because it is the "first sign of the zodiac", whatever that actually means. According to the Wikipedia entry, "the sign of the Emperor is associated with the sun sign of Aries". The important phrase here is "sun sign of Aries". This implies Sun in Aries represents The Emperor. This is more in line with traditional astrology, as the Sun is exalted in Aries. According to Maternus, an exalted planet is "raised up to its maximum power". So a Sun in Aries is very authoritative, royal and of sound judgement. The Sun is also the proper significator of authority figures, and The Emperor is a symbol of an authority figure. The Sun is no doubt, more powerful and authoritative than Mars or Jupiter, because without it, there would be no life.
Birch Dragon
Well-known member
Great post number 2! Larxene is rocking this thread!!
I am suddenly and impulsively filled with the rash urge to conquer Astrologers Weekly and declare myself King of the Astrologers' Community - for your own good, of course.
(...says the man with the Aries Sun)
I am suddenly and impulsively filled with the rash urge to conquer Astrologers Weekly and declare myself King of the Astrologers' Community - for your own good, of course.
(...says the man with the Aries Sun)
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junoisuppose
Well-known member
I am wondering why tarot experts are trying to associate cards with individual signs. Is this something that has been done for a long time? A long tradition?
From my understanding the Emperor represents a strong man who either is in, or takes, control of the situation. He is a bit of a disciplinarian, in contrast to the loving guidance of the Empress.
Saturn as we know represents rules.
Other definitions of the Emperor I have seen talk of him as being the person who recognises that sometimes it is necessary to take up arms to defend his home/family/kingdom. These suggest aries and cancer to me.
So perhaps, my suggestion is that the Emperor card is associated with more than one sign.
Other cards may also have correlations with more than one sign. The moon is suggested as the card for Pisces, but with the moon there and a cray fish, surely that's Cancer, the madness could be Cancer or Pisces, and the illusions and deceptions element seems a bit more neptunian and Piscean.
In the same way that people have more than one sign in their chart.
HOWEVER
I am now going to completely contradict myself. Michele Knight, who is a famous tarot reader and astrologer on UK TV, and who has a website giving automated readings, says that the Emperor "is the major Arcana card for Aries, and it can often indicate an Aries".
& often when I have drawn the card in relation to a man I am having trouble with, because he is being disapproving (saturn again) he either is an Aries sun, or he has planets in Aries! (The fact that my father is an Aries, so it's often him, doesn't help when trying to see if objectively the Emperor always represents Arians).
This make sense to me.
& saturn is in fall in Aries, so perhaps his grumpiness and disciplinarian side are his downfall, whereas his noble leadership and his willingness to fight for what is important to him are valuable traits.
Flapjacks
Well-known member
Perhaps we've been brainwashed by popular cultural archetypes of leaders to see them as one-dimensional beings that cannot simultaneously aries-like and cancer-like and capricorn-like and leo-like all at the same time, or perhaps signs not associated with leadership at all. 
Growing up watching a lot of cartoons, it was interesting to note a change in the "type" of leader that was portrayed to young people. In ensemble cartoons, there is the "plucky hero" to save the day, the main protagonist who leads a group of other characters that all have their own roles. These roles are obviously made to be easily recognizable and shallow to allow the greatest amount of identification from the young audience.
And, at least from what I've noticed, most often the plucky protagonist hero would embody Aries: Impetuous, competitive, not-all-too-bright, sometimes a bit hot headed, but good-natured overall. See Ash Ketchum from Pokemon, or the Red Ranger from Power Rangers (my age is showing haha).
Then sometimes you have the Leonine hero, who wants to take care of their friends through magnanimity, who can sometimes be arrogant and conceited but feels they are meant to be the leader and proves themselves over and over to be a good one, even when they make mistakes. What's kind of interesting is you often see "Leo" like villians (megalomaniacs, vain, etc...)
What's new that I'm seeing is Capricorn-like leaders. This leader doesn't want to be the leader at first, being somewhat introverted and self-conscious, but is thrust into the role... and then, finding the circumstances forces them, they rise up and become a greater leader than anyone imagined, highly disciplined and able to manage others.
What's also interesting is there are a number of archetypes of Scorpio leaders... ones that are evil then turn good, go through a dramatic transformation and learn how to control their desires and end up taking control for the better.
The thing is, no one is really like any of these things. They are hyperboles. Tarot cards are also hyperboles... symbols... and considering the greater number of major arcana (and minor) to zodiac signs, I don't think there is a 1:1 ratio of correspondence between the zodiac signs and specific cards. There is also no specific set of characteristics possessed by one sign that make a good "emperor" or leader, imo, and since no one has just one sign influencing their entire chart, you can have a "disciplined Aries" depending on lots of things... even if the sign itself isn't associated with discipline.
Growing up watching a lot of cartoons, it was interesting to note a change in the "type" of leader that was portrayed to young people. In ensemble cartoons, there is the "plucky hero" to save the day, the main protagonist who leads a group of other characters that all have their own roles. These roles are obviously made to be easily recognizable and shallow to allow the greatest amount of identification from the young audience.
And, at least from what I've noticed, most often the plucky protagonist hero would embody Aries: Impetuous, competitive, not-all-too-bright, sometimes a bit hot headed, but good-natured overall. See Ash Ketchum from Pokemon, or the Red Ranger from Power Rangers (my age is showing haha).
Then sometimes you have the Leonine hero, who wants to take care of their friends through magnanimity, who can sometimes be arrogant and conceited but feels they are meant to be the leader and proves themselves over and over to be a good one, even when they make mistakes. What's kind of interesting is you often see "Leo" like villians (megalomaniacs, vain, etc...)
What's new that I'm seeing is Capricorn-like leaders. This leader doesn't want to be the leader at first, being somewhat introverted and self-conscious, but is thrust into the role... and then, finding the circumstances forces them, they rise up and become a greater leader than anyone imagined, highly disciplined and able to manage others.
What's also interesting is there are a number of archetypes of Scorpio leaders... ones that are evil then turn good, go through a dramatic transformation and learn how to control their desires and end up taking control for the better.
The thing is, no one is really like any of these things. They are hyperboles. Tarot cards are also hyperboles... symbols... and considering the greater number of major arcana (and minor) to zodiac signs, I don't think there is a 1:1 ratio of correspondence between the zodiac signs and specific cards. There is also no specific set of characteristics possessed by one sign that make a good "emperor" or leader, imo, and since no one has just one sign influencing their entire chart, you can have a "disciplined Aries" depending on lots of things... even if the sign itself isn't associated with discipline.
Birch Dragon
Well-known member
Ah-ha! I've found somewhere to disagree with you, flapjacks! As an Aries-type I'm contractually, genetically, egoistically bound to disagree with the "not-too-bright" part.
Otherwise... spot on!
Right. I think a great deal of conceptual confusion and general watery thinking we can see all across this board comes from forgetting that when we are talking about "Aries" or "Taurus," etc., we're talking about Ideal Types, or Archetypes - not specific, living people - who are always complex intermingling of various pure-form Ideal Types, qualifying and changing the pure form into something more blende, tempered and complicated.
The language we use on this site often flutters in and out, sometimes suggesting we are talking about Signs as Signs (Ideal Types) and sometimes People as Signs. In some ways it has to. I just did it above by calling myself an "Aries-type." But of course I'm not just an Aries type. I'm an Aries Sun and Moon but decidedly not simply "an Aries."
Our language tends to fail us here. We have to talk about it this way. But it's always best to keep in our heads the distinction between Signs as Signs -Ideal Types - and the very complicated, very impure, non-ideal mess of archetypal energies that is an actual, specific human being.
As I pointed out in Darth's previous thread on Aries and discipline, I am an Aries Sun/Moon that can be extremely disciplined, but that's because I have Saturn in the 10th and a Capricorn North Node. But I can also be very impulsive and see discipline as a kind of soul-crushing evil that suffocates the expression of raw authenticity that I so prize in life. Like everybody, I'm a contradictory mass of competing archetypes.
Great post, flapjacks. And the post before it by junoisuppose is great too.
Love where this thread has gone.
P.s. Synchronously, flapjacks you mentioned the Scorpio type hero, and I think Darth MI's namesake and avatar - Darth Vader - is exactly a Scorpio hero archetype!
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
According to a manuscript translated from the original Ancient GreekPerhaps we've been brainwashed by popular cultural archetypes of leaders to see them as one-dimensional beings that cannot simultaneously aries-like and cancer-like and capricorn-like and leo-like all at the same time, or perhaps signs not associated with leadership at all.
Growing up watching a lot of cartoons, it was interesting to note a change in the "type" of leader that was portrayed to young people. In ensemble cartoons, there is the "plucky hero" to save the day, the main protagonist who leads a group of other characters that all have their own roles. These roles are obviously made to be easily recognizable and shallow to allow the greatest amount of identification from the young audience.
And, at least from what I've noticed, most often the plucky protagonist hero would embody
Aries: Impetuous, competitive, not-all-too-bright, sometimes a bit hot headed, but good-natured overall.
See Ash Ketchum from Pokemon, or the Red Ranger from Power Rangers (my age is showing haha).
viewable at http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
QUOTE
The Nature of the Twelve Zodiacal Signs.
'…...Aries is the house of Mars, a masculine sign, tropic, terrestrial, governing, fiery, free, upward trending, semi-vocal, noble, changeable, procuratorial, public, civic, with few offspring, servile, the Midheaven of the universe and the cause of rank, two-toned (since the sun and the moon make white lichen). It is also unaspected and ecliptic. Depending on its relationship with the houseruler, men born under this sign will be brilliant, distinguished, authoritarian, just, hard on offenders, free, governing, bold in thought, boastful, great-hearted, restless, unstable, haughty, inflated, intimidating, quickly changing, wealthy. When the houserulers are favorably situated and have benefics in aspect, kings and powerful men are born, those having the say over life and death.....'
Flapjacks
Well-known member
According to a manuscript translated from the original Ancient Greek
viewable at http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
QUOTE
The Nature of the Twelve Zodiacal Signs.
'…...Aries is the house of Mars, a masculine sign, tropic, terrestrial, governing, fiery, free, upward trending, semi-vocal, noble, changeable, procuratorial, public, civic, with few offspring, servile, the Midheaven of the universe and the cause of rank, two-toned (since the sun and the moon make white lichen). It is also unaspected and ecliptic. Depending on its relationship with the houseruler, men born under this sign will be brilliant, distinguished, authoritarian, just, hard on offenders, free, governing, bold in thought, boastful, great-hearted, restless, unstable, haughty, inflated, intimidating, quickly changing, wealthy. When the houserulers are favorably situated and have benefics in aspect, kings and powerful men are born, those having the say over life and death.....'
I've read that description before, and I think it sounds like a grab-bag of traits that don't make much sense together and I feel like we're missing some kind of context or understanding using those keywords. It gives similar or the same ones in the description for Taurus, for example.
When it says brilliant, I don't think it means in an intellectual way, which is the intent I was using "bright" in (as a colloquial phrase). And that's not to say that people with Aries in their chart are dumb, just that the influence isn't about mercurial intelligence. I find mars to have more a tactical intelligence, or physical intelligence that is good for dexterity, muscle memory, etc.
"Brilliant" can be applied in a lot of ways.
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Flapjacks
Well-known member
The Ram
Well-known member
Aries rules the brain itself. So it is indeed the most intelligent sign, calling it not too bright is laughable. The brilliant description is spot on, look at the charts of many of the most brilliant minds in history and youll see the Aries influence.
There are some boneheads too though, kind of like how Cancer influenced women are either very busty or straight up flat with very little in the way of middle ground.
There are some boneheads too though, kind of like how Cancer influenced women are either very busty or straight up flat with very little in the way of middle ground.
athenian200
Well-known member
Well, I have the Sun in Aries and Mars in Capricorn.
Generally, I find myself in groups where no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and I end up having to be the leader. I do specifically ask if anyone else wants the job (hoping someone will have the ambition/skills), but no one ever does.
I'm not that good at delegating, though. Generally I end up doing the entire project myself and then convincing the rest of the group to take credit for parts of it. In one case, I even had to falsify agendas and minutes for an exceptionally picky teacher who insisted we keep track of every contribution, and get everyone to agree on what to write in their report regarding who did what during which meetings. Meetings we never had because I did the whole thing myself.
The reason for this is that I've found most people will not do the work and will keep putting everything off until too close to the deadline (regardless of how much you remind them) and then do something half-assed that may only get a C. Since I need for the group to get an A, I don't want to rely on them.
For me, being an Aries seems to mean that you have to do everything by yourself and don't get any help (if you want it done well).
Generally, I find myself in groups where no one wants to take responsibility for anything, and I end up having to be the leader. I do specifically ask if anyone else wants the job (hoping someone will have the ambition/skills), but no one ever does.
I'm not that good at delegating, though. Generally I end up doing the entire project myself and then convincing the rest of the group to take credit for parts of it. In one case, I even had to falsify agendas and minutes for an exceptionally picky teacher who insisted we keep track of every contribution, and get everyone to agree on what to write in their report regarding who did what during which meetings. Meetings we never had because I did the whole thing myself.
The reason for this is that I've found most people will not do the work and will keep putting everything off until too close to the deadline (regardless of how much you remind them) and then do something half-assed that may only get a C. Since I need for the group to get an A, I don't want to rely on them.
For me, being an Aries seems to mean that you have to do everything by yourself and don't get any help (if you want it done well).
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Wham bam thank you Ram.