Ways to heal Chiron wounds

Well you people finally have me looking at chiron. I guess that dates me.


It seems like everyone is snap, crackling, and popping these days. I'm wondering if this might have something to do with chiron's conjunction with Neptune in Aquarius.

Maybe the collective mind is Aquarianizing? Rebelling? Craving humanitarianism? Ovewhelmed with electronic tech? Spiritually yearning for equality? Demanding respect for human rights, and individuality? Paradigm shifting?





Hmmmmm..........

Nexus7

Nexus7 said:

.....It was suggested that it was more to do with where we sabotage ourselves.

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This has been the result of my "chiron wound driven" actions, appearing in every house area but always relating to inappropriate communicating by me. So, I'd say how we sabotage ourselves rather than where - but the suggestion seems valid to me.

....Maybe my Chironic placement does insure against follow any particualr party line 100%.

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This is an astute observation, but I suspect it may turn out to be a characteristic of the planet itself rather than it's placement. Maybe that's why (everytime I/others consider the meaning/role of chiron) I find myself questioning the currently accepted texts/expert opinions on astrology generally.

Flea

Flea said:

....chiron and its pattern in the chart can only guide what we are open to and ready to deal with.

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Agree fully. And, when we are open/ready, I suspect chiron will guide without the need for input from experts/professionals/etc. "When the student is ready, the master/chiron will appear" - delivering a message that only the specific individual concerned can hear/understand.

Tsquare

Tsquare said:

Having computer probs, overheating.

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I think you may have picked up a virus at the site protesting about Tibet.

Jeremy

Jeremy said:

...Lass.......Reinhart......Hand-Clow

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I'm finding that timing is the key to acquiring the best publications on most astrology topics - the latest incorporates all that has proved valid in previous publications; generally adds something and often is much clearer. Or am I just being cynical here?

In reality though, my guess is that you are learning more about Chiron through your client consultations than you ever will from books.

....this for me has an application to the argument between traditionalists and moderns in astrology....

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I'm hoping the traditionalists don't know where you live.

Maybe the orbit is symbolic too - bridging Jupiter/traditional/pisces and Uranus/modern/aquarius and Saturn/traditional+modern/capricorn. So, I'm thinking in terms of Astrological Ages :-

"give someone a fish and feed one for a day" (pisces) - "teach someone to fish and feed one for life" (aquarius) - "organise the fishermen into an efficient unit and feed everyone for life" (capricorn).

For me, the key (I'm using that chiron word a lot these days) is that chiron merely "acknowledges" Jupiter/traditional but strongly embraces Saturn/traditional+modern on it's way to Uranus/modern - and Capricorn (not Aquarius) is the more advanced Age. So, both traditionalists and modern seem to have a definite place in the "chiron plan".

I am growing dissatisfied with some dogma regarding Chiron...

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I feel the same way about astrology generally. For me, questioning the dogma seems to be a chiron trait.

I am not convinced that we cannot heal Chirotic wounds, maybe it is tied up in the concept of healing because we can always heal more

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At present, my view is that the wound cannot be healed. In my own case, I can live with the wound and removing/healing it would destroy some of my fondest memories of my mother. Maybe it could be done - but I would not be the same person afterwards (the chiron death?), and not neccessarily a better one either.

Smilingsteph

This all seems very healthy to me - apart from the nastiness. Justifeid anger should always be expressed - otherwise how do people know they have offended you and decide whether or not they need to change anything? The problem is that we are conditioned to see anger as negative - even when used assertively and with constructive intentions.

Blueheron

blueheron said:

......I guess that dates me.

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You "outed" yourself on another thread (to-day is my birthday) - confessing to being even older than me! Maybe the fact that we've completed a chiron cycle will prove particularly helpful on this thread though.


EJ

Thanks EJ!!!
I feel a million times better releasing anger, pain and hatred through an activity that releases that physically rather than verbally,
My thought:
What do you do when you are hurt?
Write, yell, sing, paint, organize????
Well do that then!
I tend to yell, so this is not conducive to being around people, so I displace my anger through sports....

smilingsteph said:

Thanks EJ!!!
I feel a million times better releasing anger, pain and hatred through an activity that releases that physically rather than verbally,
My thought:
What do you do when you are hurt?
Write, yell, sing, paint, organize????
Well do that then!
I tend to yell, so this is not conducive to being around people, so I displace my anger through sports....

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Hi Smilingsteph,

We may be thinking slightly differently here. To me, releasing anger = letting go of the emotion - whilst expressing anger = stating how you feel (and why) to those who made you angry. We owe it to ourselves to release anger - and we owe it to others to express it (assertively).

With regard to releasing anger then, your thought seems excellent to me. But should we express it assertively; express it aggressively or not express it at all?

EJ

With regard to releasing anger then, your thought seems excellent to me. But should we express it assertively; express it aggressively or not express it at all?

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Decode the anger, and find the sorrow behind it. Then you can cry it off.

blueheron said:

Decode the anger, and find the sorrow behind it. Then you can cry it off.

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Hi Blueheron,

Again, this is excellent advice for releasing the emotions.

But should we (unemotionally, objectively and constructively) express our anger to those who (unintentionally) caused it or not?

EJ

EJ53 said:

Hi Blueheron,

Again, this is excellent advice for releasing the emotions.

But should we (unemotionally, objectively and constructively) express our anger to those who (unintentionally) caused it or not?

EJ

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I don't know. I try to not do this because I think it's rather like pouring gasoline on a fire. If I can get my anger decoded, there's some hurt festering deep within it. I've found that I can handle the pain of grieving much better than the pain of rage (but then my mars is in Libra.)

However, sometimes there doesn't seem to be any other option but to roar.

blueheron said:

I don't know. I try to not do this because I think it's rather like pouring gasoline on a fire. If I can get my anger decoded, there's some hurt festering deep within it. I've found that I can handle the pain of grieving much better than the pain of rage (but then my mars is in Libra.)

However, sometimes there doesn't seem to be any other option but to roar.

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Good/enlightening answer Blueheron - and superbly expressed. For me, it evokes the image of the lion roaring without malice; to avoid being aggressive and to inform others that they may have a problem - as I believe we should aim to do when/by expressing our anger.

Thanks:sunny:

Hi everyone, I am late coming to this thread, was one week totally occupied with family matters:
I like what Liz Green has written on the topic Chiron

In Anguish the centaur seeks to pull the arrow from his thigh. But all his instinctive skill and knowledge cannot take away the pain he suffers, nor heal the wound of it's corrosive poison. Yet despite the darkness which surrounds him, the light of the Sun illuminating with merciless clarity that implacable unfairness of life which constitutes the true nature of his hurt - can draw forth wisdom and compassion to render bearable that which cannot be changed. ~ Liz Greene.

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This is exactly how I see it as well. I dont think we can ever heal our wounds. Easy or difficult aspects to Chiron might show how easy or how difficult it is for us to help others with the same problems or how much effort (squares, conjunctions,) we are putting into "healing" others with similar wounds. Trines could show less effort put into these things. I dont know, just guessing, but really healing yourself, I dont think so. We can learn to live with it, accept it, but never get rid of it.

In my experience, whereever Chiron is found in the chart, we find the most sensitive and difficult area of our life. In the 9th, like Julie's Chiron, I have had seen several times a great disappointment in oneself, even shame, to not having been able to get a degree (university) in some subject, and especially the first time the person failed, it puts a stamp on his or her self-esteem. This "failure" goes like a red tape through their lives and influences lots of decisions and often the person decides to really start developing that area to compensate for the "wound", like doing all sorts of studies where he/she does succeed and indeed often they then also want to teach others what they have learned.
Probably the "wound" feels like that because of the reaction that person got from others at the time and which made for such a negative impression or a feeling of shame.

Chiron in the 3rd might show a lack of lower education or "only" having a basic school education which for some seems to be too little whilst for others it is OK.

In talking to clients I think we just have to make a suggestion, we have to ask them and see what the answer is. It could also be (in the 9th) a feeling of not beeing all-round, not having enough general knowledge or cultural knowledge, whatever, or it could have to do with religion (which is condemmed by others) for instance.

Cheers, Starlink

starlink said:

I am late coming to this thread.....

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Hi Starlink,

I was wondering why you'd not commented on this thread - but now that you have, it was worth the wait.

....really healing yourself, I dont think so. We can learn to live with it, accept it, but never get rid of it...........(it's) the most sensitive and difficult area of our life.......goes like a red tape through (the life) and influences lots of decisions and often the person decides to really start developing that area to compensate for the "wound" ......

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I agree completely with this. For me, the wound is so much a part of "who I now am" that I'd choose to live with it rather than have it healed and risk the possibility of becoming a "different person" that I might not even like.

In talking to clients I think we just have to make a suggestion, we have to ask them and see what the answer is.

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This might prove to be the most important chiron lesson for astrologers. Maybe it's all we ever should do/have done anyway.

EJ

Thank you Ej and Starlink on your interpretations of my Chiron in 9th, I think you are both right (I won't go into details it's too painful ) I do genuinely think where Chiron is placed is a painful place to be, I think it is too hard for me to really analyse what it means. I do think I could have done more with my life, maybe intellectually but my confidence has always been very low. I also do try to compensate for it and will study a lot on different subjects, my bookshelf is getting crammed. Disappointments and bitterness are in the 9th house and my self worth probably does feel wounded.

Thank you both, I am a bit late getting back to the thread as I have been busy, it doesn't mean I haven't read the interpretations. I always appreciate it .

What a great thread on Chiron! Many thanks to you all for showing there's more than one way to look at our personal placements and aspects. Especially where Chiron is concerned since we all have wounds to heal.

I decided to also have a look at the midpoints of Chiron to other planets, especially Sun, Moon, Pluto,Mars (both Asc. rulers) and Venus (Sun ruler).

Natally I have Chiron in the 12th house (probably quite similar to Chiron in Pisces), in Scorpio at 4°, so that pain is really deeply hidden and the three aspects it makes are a square to Saturn (yes, being ignored is a possibility. In my case I think some hurt done by the father as well). Saturn also is ruler of my 3rd. , An inconjunct to the North Node at 2° Gemini in 7th and an opposition to Mercury in the 6th.
I have , through own experience) noticed that indeed the 3rd house, elementary school experiences, have been very painful for me. So Saturn does not only show lessons, limitations and difficulties to overcome, but the house it rules becomes very important in the Chiron experiences. I had a very difficult time in school, pestered by the other children and yes, ignored as well, AND also a female (Indonesian)teacher who always made fun of me in front of the whole classroom. I will never forget that.

Mercury rules my 11th, friends. Chiron's opposition shows few friends out of fear to be hurt I guess. I am and always have been very self reliant because of that and yes, lost faith in (the goodness?) of others (inconjunct NN in 7) and the 8th, life and death situations, transformation and facing crisis and support from others. Especially this last one. I never ask. I rather do everything alone than ask for help. Chiron experiences helped (what am I saying? forced me to transform myself.

Still, there is a lot of 12th house stuff I have not yet been able to un-dig really. I know it is there, but have no idea how to get at it, unless I let myself being hypnotised and I am afraid of that to be true. I really am afraid what would come up (square to Saturn again) and rather not know.

Back to the midpoints. One immediately caught my eye, the Chiron //Sun falls at 9° Leo in my chart and what is going to happen in August on 9° Leo? Yessurree, the total Solar Eclipse!!! I will keep a good eye on this one and will let you guys know what life throws at me then (IF it does of course).

Would midpoints between Chiron and other planets be of interest you think?

Must run, cheers, Starlink

Julie/Autumnleaf/All

I'd also like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, which enabled me to work through what (I hope) might be the final stages of confronting/learning to live with my own Chiron wound.

Having done so, I agree with Jeremy that the wound might not be confrontable (or even apparent) before the first Saturn Return - which may explain why the input here seems to be from those who have. Certainly, my conscious confrontation did not begin until February 2008 (shortly after joining this forum) - and my astrological awareness of Chiron only began some 3 months earlier, around the time of my 59th birthday. So, I shall not be pointing fingers at anyone under 60 who chooses not to confront this planet - aptly described by Tsquare as a "little bugger".

However, for those who decide to do so in the future, I can now add the following about how the Chiron cycle appears to have worked in my life :-

1. Born with Chiron in Scorpio/3rd - "deep-seated scorpio fear of being manipulated, affecting how I communicate (3rd house).

2. First Chiron square at age 12 - death of grandmother who (with chiron hindsight) was the only "figure of authority" that never attempted to manipulate me. Also, first term in Seconday Education - when (with chiron hindsight) the main objective was to make me conform (by manipulation).

3. Chiron opposition at 35 - A time of considerable pressure by "my society" to make me conform (by manipulation), referred to elsewhere on this thread.

4. Second Chiron square at 45 - Throughout the six months prior to her death through cancer, I became aware for the first time of how my mother was manipulating me (and had always done so).

5. Chiron Return at 50 - although I did not realise why until now, this was when I began to reflect upon how my resistance to "being manipulated" by others had affected my life. (Note how that made me feel I'd displayed courage by resisting - rather than fear of something that might not actually have been happening.)

6. Currently at 59 and six months - Chiron has been setting off a tight Pluto/Mercury square in my chart. (With Chiron hindsight), that square explains the pride I have always had in being mentally strong enough to resist manipulation by others. And that pride has been the source of the "self-sabotage" to which Nexus7 refers in this thread.

Finally, I hope this helps others to confront their own Chiron wound despite the pain of doing so - because, I can confirm from experience that it is probably the underlying/hidden cause of the problems that we are consciously aware of. As Jeremy says, the Chiron message is "heal or become ill" - but it's also reminding us of the law of "cause and effect".

EJ:cheers:

Starlink said:

Would midpoints between Chiron and other planets be of interest you think?

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Yes - and I'm gonna ask the Mods to post you as AWOL next time you go "missing" from this forum.

EJ

Oh great EJ53!, I mean, looking at all those important Chiron hits. I will have a look at mine also and let you know (if I remember, because I seem to be good at covering up bad memories).

I'm gonna ask the Mods to post you as AWOL next time you go "missing" from this forum.

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Oh, that is sooo considerate of you! I will announce all my vacations to avoid panic stations, ha ha!!!

Ciao! Star.

Chiron's lessons:
to teach
to unlock
to find what is essential
to reconcile opposites (shaman)
to heal holistically
They say they are similar to Saturns lessons, if so, how? Any input?
Can we apply the same understanding to Chiron as Saturn?
I think I am getting the two mixed up as one of the same...

Having just had a Chiron return after transit Chiron conjunct Moon after Neptune made similar transits, it certainly does seem to me that Chiron is not Neptune. The Neptune transit could be cathartic, inspiring (though not all Neptune transits are not like that, they can also seem to engender a sense of loss and disappointment in ways that felt pretty pointless at the time with other transits), but the Chiron transits just seemed painful without anything cathartic going on whatsoever. And if there is anythng to this wounding idea, it, for me at least, still seems to me to be linked with all kinds of group politics, the wounding happening where the hidden dynamics are least understood, that is all. In that respect, 3rd-House placements for me at least, do make sense: school. Still, I've no doubt lots of people have woundings here, apparently most people, when asked to describe a school memory, go on to describe something unpleasant, even traumatic. In other words, you don't need to have any Chiron placement in the 3rd to necessary be totally unwounded by school expereinces at a tender age.

But then again, Rob Hand declares that 'school is Saturnine.' So there is one possible Saturn comparison.

Smilingsteph

smilingsteph said:

.....Can we apply the same understanding to Chiron as Saturn?...

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Based solely upon my own experience of Chiron, I'd speculate that :-

Saturn encourages us to "know what we need to know"
Chiron encourages us to accept that "we know what we need to know"

For example, It takes me a long time to interpret and synthesise the individual components in a chart (Saturn) - yet I can "see" the result in minutes by looking at the chart (Uranus). However, having not yet "accepted" my ability to do the latter (Chiron) - I still confirm "what I know" by interpreting and synthesising the individual components. So, Chiron is the bridge between my grounded saturn knowledge of astrology and the uranus knowledge that comes from who knows where.

Nexus7

Nexus7 said:

And if there is anythng to this wounding idea, it, for me at least, still seems to me to be linked with all kinds of group politics, the wounding happening where the hidden dynamics are least understood, that is all.

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This makes sense to me, as the wound does always seem to the individual to have been inflicted by others. And the hidden dynamics might be stated as :-

Psychological wounds come not from what happens to us, but from how the event(s) made us feel at the time.

EJ

In that respect, 3rd-House placements for me at least, do make sense:
school. Still, I've no doubt lots of people have woundings here, apparently most people, when asked to describe a school memory, go on to describe something unpleasant, even traumatic. In other words, you don't need to have any Chiron placement in the 3rd to necessary be totally unwounded by school expereinces at a tender age

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.
Hi Nexus, yes, you are right of course. School is never really a party!
I am talking about more extreme happenings. In my case it was really very abusive and not the normal bullying which always happens in school.
The fact that I can remember each instant says it all. I dont remember other things at that time so well.

EJ, I have now a case with a Chiron in the 8th in Pisces, conjunct Saturn (imagine) and opposed to a Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd. And a Sun square Mars. Sun rules Ascendant, in the 5th in Capricorn.Chart of a woman. Transiting Uranus is exactly conjunct her Chiron now! OOPS!!
Trans. Saturn cnj. her Ascendant .

I find 8th house positions always hard to explain to the client, I can feel it but have difficulty putting it into words that they understand and more important, willing to accept.

In my opinion this is a big time father issue, feeling a great loss of support from others as well (husband, financial). He has the title, she the money.
Uranus rules the 7th house.

Hope all goes well, I see her at 14.30 today. Also have to do her son's chart, so it is going to be a heavy session. transiting Moon will be going over my Uranus in Gemini, quite appropriate and entering my 8th house .

Cheers, Star.