Intelligence

Mercury is the only planet I have with only "positive" aspects . It's in my first House, In Gemini. Conjunct to the sun ( But not Combusted I Believe ) . It trines Saturn in Aquarius and forms a Sextile with Mars, Venus, Jupiter in Leo, Quintile Uranus in Capricorn. I feel my "mind" very geminian ... Can't concentrate in only one thing , and more than everything I just find it very hard to study or learn a subject I don't like or that doesn't interest me in the moment. Hope this gives a little contribute to the topic.

Mercury is the only planet I have with only "positive" aspects . It's in my first House, In Gemini. Conjunct to the sun ( But not Combusted I Believe ) .

Click to expand...

What's the orb of the conjunction, Seymour? I just attended the Webinar by Robert Hand which Frank described in another thead, and I believe he said he used an 8-degree orb for combustion.

I'm curious what percentage of the experimental group and what percentage of the control group has combust Mercury. Mercury never strays far from the Sun, so depending upon the orb one uses, I imagine a significant percentage of the population has combust Mercury--and an even greater percentage of the population has Mercury under the beams of the Sun (this has a 17-degree orb, I believe). It would be great if we could measure Mercury's distance from the Sun and compare the two groups to see if this has any bearing upon intelligence.

Arian Maverick

Experimental Group (Mensa Level Intelligence):
Combust 8 degrees 30 minutes orb - 23.5% - so 76.5% are NOT Combust
Under the Sun’s Beams 17 degrees orb - 52.9 - so 47.1 are NOT Under the Sun’s Beams


Control Group:
Combust 8 degrees 30 minutes orb - 25.9% - so 74.1% are NOT Combust
Under the Sun’s Beams 17 degrees -55.1% - so 44.9% are NOT Under the Sun’s Beams

Like I said - I've checked just about everything. I've been doing this one for a while. These numbers aren't all that huge.

Arian Maverick said:

What's the orb of the conjunction, Seymour? I just attended the Webinar by Robert Hand which Frank described in another thead, and I believe he said he used an 8-degree orb for combustion.

I'm curious what percentage of the experimental group and what percentage of the control group has combust Mercury. Mercury never strays far from the Sun, so depending upon the orb one uses, I imagine a significant percentage of the population has combust Mercury--and an even greater percentage of the population has Mercury under the beams of the Sun (this has a 17-degree orb, I believe). It would be great if we could measure Mercury's distance from the Sun and compare the two groups to see if this has any bearing upon intelligence.

Arian Maverick

Click to expand...

Hi Arian, Sure that's the position :
Sun 16 Gemini 48' 49''
Mercury 5 Gemini 57' 32''
I believe it's Under the Sun's beam,isn't it?

Re-intelligence?

How do you define intelligence, as applied to e.g. Mercury=Intelligence?

Mercury, has nothing to do with intelligence.

I have seen all the statistics for great scientists, Mercury, is nowhere to be seen, how do you account for this default of Mercury?

Re-Orbs, only represents the frame work that astrologers are using, is self-defaulted.


Datransformer

Datransformer said:

Re-intelligence?

How do you define intelligence, as applied to e.g. Mercury=Intelligence?

Mercury, has nothing to do with intelligence.

I have seen all the statistics for great scientists, Mercury, is nowhere to be seen, how do you account for this default of Mercury?

Re-Orbs, only represents the frame work that astrologers are using, is self-defaulted.


Datransformer

Click to expand...

If Mercury is nowhere to be seen, perhaps you are calculating the charts incorrectly.

My statistical findings were for documented IQs that were in the top 2 percent whose data exist in the AstroDatabank progrmam with a documented birth time. That's my experimental group. Anyone who has access to AstroDatabank can replicate the experiment.

As far as the statistics you've seen for great scientists, what is the data source? How many charts? How was it determined that they were great (in otherwords, what objective measurement was used to determine eminence)?

If you have accurate, verified birth data for a valid sample size (say, 150 or more) I'd like to see what I can find.

Before I post what I want to say, I need to say that I am not really part of the discussion above because I haven't read all the posts.
As an individual I have the following experience:
as a 7 year old I (along with all at my school) was given an IQ test. Because of this test I was never encouraged beyond what was average, and only excelled in school when I had a teacher I liked. Later in life I had another IQ test and it came back 15 points higher.
I was an abused child, and also a bad "test taker" because of the issues with authority figures. So the IQ system let me down...I can just imagine how many other kids slip through the cracks this way.

I have Merc. cazimi Sun, and I know this has affected my thought processes. I need to be really enthusiastic about something to want to learn it, and then I excell. I was made for astrology and have been a respected astrologer in my area for almost 30 years. I learned psychology through astrology. My clients who have been in therapy would rather come to see me and they do very often (although I make sure they don't dump their therapists...LOL). I"ve learned more from my years as an astrologer than most people do getting a PHD.

OK...so....this is what I'm getting to: Although I have always done crossword puzzles I"ve never done the cryptoquote. Not that I put a lot of time into trying to do it...I just never did them or wanted to. When Pluto was still in Saggitarius, it trined my Merc, Sun and MC. All of a sudden I could do the cryptoquote!! It wasn't "Greek" to me anymore!

I guess what I am saying is that you can get smarter as you get older, as long as you use your mind. You can also get dumber....I have seen this and it ain't pretty. And I don't mean "losing one's memory" dumber....I mean just shutting off from new information.

I tell everyone, "get a computer!" Use it. Even if it's just to email. It'll expand your mind. Now I don't know if the computer has anything to do with anything, but I do know that if you get stuck in your old patterns, you just get dumber.

And I know this is NOT what this thread it about. But from my experience as an astrologer, I know there are people who are just really intellegent, but no one knows it till they are in jr. high and then they blossom in high school if nurtured. These same people, if handled improperly, can become loners, underachievers and have many types of behaviorial problems.

I think that there are many very intellegent (not genius...but maybe them too) people who really don't know how smart they are because of one reason or another. I come across many many people, especially women who are "undereducated." It's so sad because usually it's too late for them.
LIN

Datransformer said:

Re-intelligence?

How do you define intelligence, as applied to e.g. Mercury=Intelligence?

Mercury, has nothing to do with intelligence.

I have seen all the statistics for great scientists, Mercury, is nowhere to be seen, how do you account for this default of Mercury?

Re-Orbs, only represents the frame work that astrologers are using, is self-defaulted.


Datransformer

Click to expand...

I agree that there many different kinds of intelligence, but I think objectively most people think it to be the psychological definition represented by "g" for "general intelligence". You can take a trial Mensa test to see what it is they are testing for.

I have spent a lot of time going over the charts of accomplished scientists (mostly physicists and mathematicians) and it is staggering to see with their (western tropical, geocentric) charts how common Mercury is in a multiple-planet configuration with some combination of Uranus, Saturn, Mars and Jupiter. Einstein is a classic example with a Mercury/Saturn eclipse (conjunction + parallel) in the 10th house which also inconjuncts Uranus in the 3rd. In my opinion, it doesn't get any clearer than that.

Some more examples (I use the standard Magi Society geocentric orbs of 3' longitudinal and 1'12" declinational; there are many aspects and planets I left out that a lot of people would consider contributing to their inquisitive and sometimes rebellious natures and also for simplicity):

Niels Bohr - wide Mercury/Uranus conjunction square Saturn, Mercury also parallels Uranus

Paul Dirac - wide Sun/Mercury conjunction trine Uranus and opposes Jupiter

Isaac Newton - Mercury/Saturn square, Jupiter/Uranus trine sextiled by the Sun

Gottfried Leibniz - Mercury/Uranus/Neptune all contraparallel each other

Benoit Mandelbrot - Mercury/Mars square, both aspecting Pluto

J. Craig Venter - wide Mercury/Mars conjunction with Mercury/Saturn

Michel Gauquelin - Mercury/Uranus inconjunct, Mercury/Jupiter opposition

Hans Eysenck - Mercury/Uranus eclipse in wide opposition to Mars

Wilhelm Roentgen - Mercury/Jupiter eclipse sextile Saturn (Sun/Uranus conjunction also)

Stanislaw Ulam - Mercury/Saturn eclipse square Neptune

Robert W. Bussard - Mercury/Saturn trine, wide Mercury/Mars parallel

Grigory Perelman - Mercury/Jupiter conjunction

Carl Gauss - Sun/Mercury conjunction t-square Saturn and Uranus

Bernhard Riemann - Mercury/Saturn sextile, Mercury/Venus sextile

Kurt Godel - Mercury/Uranus square, Mercury/Jupiter sextile

Michio Kaku - Sun/Mercury conjunction oppose Saturn, Mercury/Mars parallel

Edward Lorenz - Mercury/Jupiter conjunction square Uranus, Mercury/Mars parallel, Mercury/Uranus contraparallel

Omar Khayyam - Sun/Mercury/Venus eclipse in a grand trine with Jupiter and Uranus

Percival Lowell - Mercury/Saturn square

Andrei Markov - Mercury/Saturn conjunction

Marvin Minsky - Mercury/Saturn contraparallel

Steven Hawking - Mercury/Uranus/Neptune grand trine, Mercury/Mars square, Sun/Mercury/Jupiter all contact each other in declinations

John von Neumann - Sun/Mercury/Uranus parallel, Mercury/Venus/Pluto yod

Bill Joy - Mercury/Neptune eclipse square Jupiter/Uranus eclipse

Edward Teller - Sun/Mercury conjunction sextile Saturn and inconjunct Pluto, exact Mercury/Uranus parallel

J. Robert Oppenheimer - Mercury/Saturn square

Wolfgang Pauli - Mercury trines a Jupiter/Uranus eclipse

Bui Tuong Phong - Mercury/Venus eclipse inconjunct Uranus

Max Planck - Mercury/Jupiter conjunction sextiling (bisecting, at the midpoint of, whatever) a Saturn/Neptune trine, Mercury parallel Saturn

Richard Feynman - Mercury/Uranus sextile

Karl Popper - Mercury/Uranus inconjunct, Mercury contraparallel Saturn/Uranus

Srinivasa Ramanujan - Mercury/Uranus sextile

Alois Treindl - Mercury/Uranus trine, Mercury/Venus/Jupiter parallel

What statistics are you looking at?

I think sign position is more "qualitative" for lack of a better word and is less appropriate for quantitative analysis - something that angularity and aspects are better suited for. I haven't tested that out in any serious way, though.

Gilgamesh

I strongly believe that there are many different types of intelligence, and very few of them are in this standard IQ test....This one is more about memory and some kind of problem solving. Many "intelligent" people seem to lack other qualities like social intelligence!!! Maybe EQ measures this? I heard that this one the new IQ.

I usually get 130 +/- on standard IQ tests or the ones with only images like on the mensa home page. On the other hand Ive been studying for many many years, 18 years non-stop since I started school as a kid. And now Im 25...Still at Uni Maybe the more you study the higher the IQ?

Coming from a broken family, I think it caused me to have some minor difficulties at school when I was younger. Pluss I lived with my dad and we have different mother tongue languages. I had no interest for school then in either:/ Im guessing its more about motivation? You need some inspiration or something that gives you the energy to achieve good academic results.

I didnt realize that one of my stronger sides were foreign languages before high school...A strange experience. I used to be really awful in French before that. My parents told me I spoke at a very early age. And when I speak to foreigners sometimes I feel that I understand even though I dont understand the words... Like more than the average person at my level I guess. I think maybe it has to do with Mercury-Pluto-Neptune contact or something?? Some kind of non-verbal language intuition. Or maybe its due to me growing up with foreign parents, with my dads language that I dont really know for some reason. Not even understand a little!

I have Mercury in Scorpio in the 6th conjunct pluto.

Other aspects from my Mercury/pluto:

Square Jupiter
Sextile Neptune
Semi-square Mars
Semi-square Uranus
Quincunx AC (in gemini)

Ill just post the whole chart...

I have Mercuy and Pluto and Mars in the 1st House Scorpio in tight conjunction to eachother, Sextile Uranus and Neptune, square Saturn and Trine my Moon (if I could calculate the Parallels, I am sure there wuld be a few more aspects to my Mercury).

I have Uranus in the 3rd House Capricorn, in the exact degree of my Neptune, which means they both conjunct at the same degree, sextile both my Moon and Mercury, along with Mars and Pluto, square Venus.

Saturn in the 4th Aquarius, Trines my Jupiter, squares Pluto, Mars and Mercury.

Moon in the 5th Pisces Trines my tight conjunction of Mars-Pluto-Mercury, sesquiquadtrates my Sun and Asc, Bi-Quintiles my Jupiter, and sextiles both Neptune and Uranus.

Jupiter in the 12th Libra is in a wide conjucntion to my Asc, and a moderate conjunction to my Sun, Bi-Quintile Moon and Trine Saturn.

Sun sesqui Moon, square MC, conjunct Ac and Jupiter.

Venus sextiles Mc, and squares Uranus and Neptune.

All I can say is, I am as much of a genius as the next person. That again I am still young, so I guess I'll see how much my intelligence plays out when I am older in life, hopefully.

That farthest I could tell you is, in an IQ Test Score, I got 125 (or 135).....

I think Mercury has a strong link to forms of intelligence, depending on the house and the aspects to it.

My aspects are:

Mercury square Saturn
Mercury square Uranus
Mercury sextile Venus
Mercury inconjunct Moon
Mercury semi-square Pluto

I believe I have a degree of intelligence, a lot of people say I am a genius, but I try to be modest. I think I did once take an IQ test and get a score of 162, but it was a long time ago (I believe I was 12), and I doubt my IQ is anywhere near that high now. I get random flashes of insightful thoughts a lot, but often struggle to interpret them and get them out into a tangible form, but I believe that my mind (and everyone elses mind) is truly capable of any form of brilliance.

Also I have read that Sun trine Neptune and Sun trine Uranus can lead to "genius". Interestingly enough, I have both trines lol.

I'm a genius because my online self-administered test, said so.

No, really, my teacher said I was bright but lazy during one of my parent / teacher meetings. I never did very well in school, except in the subjects I was interested in personally.

hey...


Raises her hand...eh hem. Ummm I think I have some of those aspects of which you speak, but then I could easily be wrong. Do you guys see any signs of intelligence in this celestial body? I could use a boost...grins.


b.

cirrus1 said:

No, really, my teacher said I was bright but lazy during one of my parent / teacher meetings. I never did very well in school, except in the subjects I was interested in personally.

Click to expand...

I was frequently told the same, in all truth i could of achieved great grades throughout school, but my laziness was a reflection of my dis-interest in what was been taught to me and the manner in which it was been taught. I hate listening to someone tell me about something, i prefer to actively seek out the information myself and learn through experience.

If im genuinely interested in something, i will teach myself everything there is to know about it through excessive research.. it becomes an obsession, it's too bad most of my interests don't translate to well into career pathways..

lazarusx said:

I was frequently told the same, in all truth i could of achieved great grades throughout school, but my laziness was a reflection of my dis-interest in what was been taught to me and the manner in which it was been taught. I hate listening to someone tell me about something, i prefer to actively seek out the information myself and learn through experience.

If im genuinely interested in something, i will teach myself everything there is to know about it through excessive research.. it becomes an obsession, it's too bad most of my interests don't translate to well into career pathways..

Click to expand...

Same here. I don't mind when people tell me stuff, but I have to be interested, if I'm not, I actually switch off into autopilot. I hope to be able to make something of all my interests some day.

Well, I have Neptune in the 3rd house, and I've read that it indicates difficulties with school and/or learning.

cirrus1 said:

Well, I have Neptune in the 3rd house, and I've read that it indicates difficulties with school and/or learning.

Click to expand...

More or less, I think it means difficulties with school growing up. Since the 3rd House rules "Lower Education", this would mean Elementary, Middle, and I should think High School as well; although some disagree with high school.

If you were to look for College and higher educations, then - correct me if I'm wrong - you would look to the 9th House for those matters. The planet that rules it, the condition of that planet, the sign it is in, and the planets located in the 9th House.

isnt the 5th house considered in matters of intelligence ?

Frank, could you tell us a bit more about your findings? I'm afraid I don't understand a lot about what you put above, but I'd be grateful for some for some more info.

Rather than talking about myself and proclaiming self-grandeur, have we found more info. on features which seem common in high-intelligence folk?

I'm interested in those Mercury aspects with Saturn and Uranus especially, but honestly how many people already have them? They don't all work for secret intelligence agencies. I also agree that there are surely many types of intelligence. I don't know if most artists would score highly on standard IQ tests as just one example, so this means the framework of testing is poor. I also agree that people very intelligent in some areas can be quite behind in others, I've seen that in person many times.

I just had to look for this discussion because last time I checked there wasn't much decisive data in the area. Thank goodness for astrologers like Frank.