Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Opal said:
Hi Waybread,

I agree with the boomerang effect, what you put out is returned. There is exceptions though. There have been times where a person does something nasty, because they are nasty. You don’t always deserve what someone else puts out, but they do it regardless. Those times, I usually ask when I return the volley, “Why did you make me do this to you?”
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Hi, Opal-- I wasn't really thinking about whether an innocent person "deserves" nasty treatment. Nobody deserves gratuitously nasty treatment. To me, this type of thing falls more into the "life isn't fair category."

I think we have to look at long-term averages. A good person putting out good stuff can indeed get nasty treatment in return, but on-average, he will reap rewards from other people.

Sometimes the fundamentally good person can get too pious or self-righteous about it, which is off-putting to others.

Similarly, the nasty co-worker whom everyone hates automatically forfeits things that really matter in life: loyalty, respect, friendship, and even love. In a work situation that demands teamwork, nobody wants to be on Mr. Nasty's team, and when they are, they will often ignore or sabotage his contributions.

We no longer live in the autocratic world of Machiavelli. Most people today have better options than putting up with the office sadist.
 
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Opal

Opal

Premium Member
waybread said:
Hi, Opal-- I wasn't really thinking about whether an innocent person "deserves" nasty treatment. Nobody deserves gratuitously nasty treatment. To me, this type of thing falls more into the "life isn't fair category."

I agree, innocent people do not deserve nasty treatment.....but there are people that prey on people who trust......and when it does the innocent have to decide, whether or not to seek revenge, or justice......how the innocent person goes about it can sometimes be judged harsher than the person who threw the first rock.

I think we have to look at long-term averages. A good person putting out good stuff can indeed get nasty treatment in return, but on-average, he will reap rewards from other people.

Long term......usually you would be right, there are exceptions.......but they are the exception......

Sometimes the fundamentally good person can get too pious or self-righteous about it, which is off-putting to others.

Can't argue that:biggrin:

Similarly, the nasty co-worker whom everyone hates automatically forfeits things that really matter in life: loyalty, respect, friendship, and even love. In a work situation that demands teamwork, nobody wants to be on Mr. Nasty's team, and when they are, they will often ignore or sabotage his contributions.

Jealousy, in the work place can cause people to do nasty actions, I know a man that tries to steal others intellectual property. People talk to him with ideas, then he tries to claim them. He somehow still keeps his job, while others get laid off.......it is strange......I do not know his workplace.....but I know his motives.......it is curious to me that he has not been laid off......

We no longer live in the autocratic world of Machiavelli. Most people today have better options than putting up with the office sadist.

When it is in the office, you are right.....unfortunately, you can't pick your relatives.......:whistling:
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Have a good night Waybread
 
M

moorz

Member
Emeraldstar99 said:
I testimony that people with mars in libra are revengeful bitches, even if It is a man we are talking about. My mother, boyfriend and more 5 people I know with this placement (it goes to venus in libra too). As OP said, a strong mars is easily detected since it's harsh and explosive, the person gets a bad rep when acts on impulse but that doesn't happen with libra placements. They are trying to balance put things so it looks "nice and just" to other people. No doubt, mars in libra is that typical cruel "popular" ***** archetype. The native who has this placement doesn't know about this tendency and they have a strong pride too

Also, I have mercury and venus in scorpio, mars in aqua square saturn in taurus, I believe in karma, so I don't get my hands dirty.
P.S: Astrology is made of assumptions and generalizations, one planet= 1000 interpretations, one aspect = 1000 interpretations, one sign = 1000 interpretations, It's not wrong to assume that mars in libra is more revengeful than scorpio because everything in astrology is generalized. That comes to someone who loves astrology and believes that astrology works with someones experiences better than the theory.
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Agree w/ this comment fully. Libra placements often have a nasty streak in my experience.
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Opal, re: your comment of a few days ago.... how shall I put this?

Of course, innocent people do not deserve crummy stuff that happens to them.

But the center of my comment focuses upon each of us. Who are we for ourselves? What do we give out?

I don't believe particularly in past-lives karma, but more in the "what goes around comes around" philosophy.

The 19th Law: you do not write like a person who is loved. You do not write like a person who receives love. Oh, sure-- no doubt Mom and Dad. But your co-workers? Have you got good friends? To live in a loveless universe of your own making is a punishment for which no amount of manipulation will compensate.

If you give out this manipulative, vengeful persona, then your karma is that you do not experience love in your life. That that is a horrific punishment, indeed.

Try to destroy someone's life? If you actually achieved this, it would turn around and bite you. At some point, either you would have to get what you had done with enormous guilt and remorse, or you would know yourself to be a psychopath.

Machiavelli's prince presumably had a country to rule. You're not that. None of us is that.

If we could please stop with the astrological tribalism that would be some help.

One thing about Scorpio, however, is that it is the fixed water sign. As such, it is capable of tremendous loyalty. It doesn't much understand people who are not emotionally fixed: i. e., loyal to the same degree. It reads fair-weather friends, let alone betrayers, as needing serious correction simply to learn Scorpio's basic fixed water life-lesson. Which is basically justice. (Sounds Libran, right? But it's basic to Scorpio.)

Unfortunately, Scorpio may have misunderstood the situation, may over-react, or otherwise be trying to teach people the lesson that they don't actually need or deserve. Scorpio is not the air (mental) sign, after all. So it doesn't make for an impartial prosecutor, judge, and jury where it sees its own interests involved.
 
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The19thLaw

Well-known member
Let's stop the astrology tribalism, yet all Scorpios deliver justice.

I'll be honest, I have seen karma give Scorpio its just desserts and give it cold. Certain signs are more than capable of delivering justice to the one sign that really only acts out due to the desperate cry for attention and envy. As you read in astrology, envy is Scorpio's middle name.

Sure, the sign might overreact but the thing with such people who go out proactively looking for fights is that one day, they do find a fight that teaches them a lesson they will remember for a while.

I never got astrology priding this sign as being the deliverer or justice or teaching someone a lesson, if anything, this classically Martian ruled sign is the one that often ends up being taught the lesson itself.

What I am saying now is that eventually, astrology itself will teach it a lesson as soon as more and more people catch on to the self-promotion the manipulator is doing by hyping itself up as "the strongest sign".

My point being, the Mars might start the fight but other planets often finish it.

So let it overreact, it's quite beautiful when evil falls on its own sword.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I wouldn't say that "all Scorpios deliver justice."

The first pitfall for novice astrologers is over-simplification.

Astrology teachers initially deal with generalities because astrology is a symbolic language. When the novice learns a new language, s/he starts with simple easy-to-understand phrases.

Compare a sentence for someone just learning English: "The train went very fast," with the comprehension of a more expert student of English: "The train accelerated to a sustained speed of 120 km per hour."

You're still at the level of, "The train went very fast."

What I indicated above was that if a sun-Scorpio has a sense of being wronged through some kind of betrayal or disloyalty, her instinct (as an emotional sign, not a mental sign) is to seek retribution. But in the Scorpio's mind, this isn't gratuitous martial violence. It is merely justice of the ancient Babylonian "eye for an eye, a "tooth for a tooth" variety.

Because Mercury is never more than 28 degrees from the sun, often a sun-Scorpio will have Mercury (thinking faculty) in justice-oriented Libra.

Then sometimes the Scorpio is mistaken. Sometimes s/he punishes the person who is vulnerable and close-to-hand, not the actual perpetrator of the alleged transgression.

Oh, you know. Dad is mad at his boss, so he comes home and takes his anger out his child.

Or maybe the boss gets fed up with Dad, who gets fired. And back-fired. And thus out of the loop where quid pro quo retaliation is possible.

So this is a big problem with retribution. Because, in such these scenarios, both father and child grow up without the bond of unconditional love. Dad loses the chance to demonstrate his professional worth, and is now even more out of control. These are the real punishments for misplaced retribution.

I'm sorry you never learned the many fine qualities of Scorpio. But you are still young. You still have lots of time, if you keep an open mind.

I don't think you would know "evil" as something external to yourself, because you speak evil, through your delight in your hope of harming another human being.

There is no such thing as "the strongest sign."

Think about a sport like boxing. Agility and the ability to dodge a blow is more valuable than some sort of ability to stand still and take a blow.

As the saying goes re: male sexuality, it's not what you've got. It's how you use it.

The "strongest sign" can be out-maneuvered by the clever, agile sign.

Are you so very important, after all,to declare yourself prosecutor, judge, and jury of other human beings? How would you like them to judge you as harshly and arrogantly as you judge them?
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
waybread said:
Opal, re: your comment of a few days ago.... how shall I put this?

Of course, innocent people do not deserve crummy stuff that happens to them.

Sometimes crummy stuff happens.....

But the center of my comment focuses upon each of us. Who are we for ourselves? What do we give out?

There are differences. There is who I am at work. There is who I am at home. There is who I am socially. There is who I am to family. There is who I am to me. It should be an effort of us all to give out positive things. I do find the hardest thing of There is.....is There is who I am in forum......in real life I laugh quite a bit, and have a very sarcastic wit. Most people don't misunderstand, cause they witness actions and facial expression. Forum is very dry.......you can't really express humour.....it is misunderstood and generally between different cultural and different language, if a person misinterprets in forums.....they get angry.........

I don't believe particularly in past-lives karma, but more in the "what goes around comes around" philosophy.

I am undecided on past lives karma, although Schulman does give a good argument for them.......heck, I would like to think "what goes around comes around" but, it seems that sometimes it really doesn't matter. Sometimes, people get away with whatever......and it just is.....

I did mention earlier in this thread, every sign has the capacity.....but it is not just any sign as you say......it is every planet......every aspect.......every star......and even the empty houses to be considered......

Talk to you later Waybread
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The19thLaw

Well-known member
I kind of do feel like you are starting to be on the right track Waybread when you say clever signs, it seems like Gemini and the air signs always beat the emotional ego-minded Scorpio who is desperately trying to prove themselves as the most powerful. Yet the sign obsessed with power does not know a thing about being subtle. Without justice though, there is no peaceful society.

The dad who goes home and beats his kids after having a bad day deserves to be punished soundly and thoroughly.

The boss who bullies his underlings and tries to ruin lives, well he deserves to have his life ruined times 10, without any mercy whatsoever.

The abusive boyfriend who preys on a smaller woman deserves to be punished without any mercy at all.

Call me crazy but I rather not let things like that slide. If you think the abusive boyfriend deserves to get away scotch-free, I question your values.
 
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The19thLaw

Well-known member
To some degree though, I am learning that karma is very real which is why I try to be the best person I can be. A few years ago I worked at a major company and we had this one Director who was borderline abusive, go figure his birthday was in early November and after finding out his age I did a bit of a natal chart to find he had a stellium in Scorpio (Sun, Mercury, the infamous and overhyped Mars and Venus). Played favorites to where numbers mattered little and loved putting certain employees in a powerless position so his favorites can get ahead, not a man worth reasoning with. Not to mention he was quite the gossip, keeping everything behind closed doors and making the office atmosphere as a whole divisive.

So the company opens an office in Austin, he gets jealous since Austin was getting a lot of love and spends meetings make fun of the way employees there looked, their families, and talking about how they are going to "fall on their own swords" by taking on more work than usual that he felt his team deserved.

Time flies by and slowly, the best performers who were willing to work hard quit on him, he spends team meetings making fun of them by what he finds on social media and asking others in the office to stalk them to get some dirt on them. He actually tried to corner one young lady in public and gang up on her with a couple of guys at a bar, typical Scorpio fashion.

One month the news comes, company gets acquired and everyone is informed they will close their office in the city where he worked at. Mr. Director loses his job and now works at a lesser known company where he has had to take a lower pay.

It's weird how the "agent of karma" has the karma delivered to his doorstep, I do wish that some bitter employees would take a step further and make it so he can't even keep his current position given how predatory and nasty that thing was. A few of the employees who were wronged? One ended up at a prestigious company that is ranked as a top 20 employer in the country and the other went to a startup to build the accolades and recently came back to the same old company but at a much higher role.

So I never got why the typical Scorpio is the agent of karma given that the predatory sign preys on the weak, helpless, and uses every under-handed tactic in the book to do so.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I'm a little cautious with the word "karma" because I don't mean it in the rigid, past-lives sense in which it appears in Hinduism and karmic/past lives astrology.

Let's just say, "What goes around, comes around."

Yes of course, we have to treat individual circumstances differently: innocent kids who get abused don't give out anything that justifies what happens to them. As adults, however, they have some choices as to how they process the abuse.

But let's look at mature responsible adults.

Word has it that Jeff Bezos is very difficult to work for and he's the wealthiest man in the world, &c, &c, &c.

Ordinary this-world "karma" takes time. Its effect may be immediate but oftentimes it takes a while.

Case in point: your Mr. Scorpio. But stop there. Wanting "some bitter employees" to actually punish this man further would generate negative "karma" on their ledger. Some of Mr. Scorpio's former supervisees are doing very well. They've had their reward, he's had his penalty.

Let the universe look after this. Don't borrow negative "karma" on your own personal spread sheet.

I'm sorry you never met any really good people who happen to be sun-Scorpios. You can check out the Astrodienst Astro-DataBank for thousands of sun Scorpio charts if you wish to research them further.
 
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The19thLaw

Well-known member
As I have said, my issue is hardly with that. The sign that takes the cake for having the worst people I have met is Aquarius (no offense) but I am sick and tired of Scorpios being so hyped up by modern astrology and being regarded as the lone powerful sign, it makes me wonder how much of this stuff is impartial.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I don't know what you're reading, but it's a big misnomer to call what you practice "modern astrology." You really need to stop wasting your time with pop-schlock social media sites and read some serious books on the subject. You know the children's parable about the blind men and the elephant?

It's fair to state that you don't know modern astrology: you know some junk astrology posted by people who are ignorant of astrology, if your posts are anything to go by.

Aquarius is a fine sign. I think your problem is one of approaching individuals through your misanthropic views of humans, coupled with your very incomplete and highly skewed ideas of astrology-- that for utterly mystifying reasons, you seem unwilling to expand beyond a narrow beginner level.

That's putting it politely.

I hope that at some point you will be capable of seeing human beings as complex, multi-faceted individuals. But you can't do it with a big chip on your shoulder.

Don't you imagine yourself to be more than a simplistic set of static character traits?

Try according to everyone else the same level of complexity you know yourself to possess.

BTW, on "what goes around comes around" and the inadvisability of wanting to punish people: you know the saying, "Living well is the best revenge."
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The19thLaw said:
As I have said, my issue is hardly with that. The sign that takes the cake for having the worst people I have met is Aquarius (no offense) but I am sick and tired of Scorpios being so hyped up by modern astrology and being regarded as the lone powerful sign, it makes me wonder how much of this stuff is impartial.
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Astrologers are never entirely impartial. They each have their own Chart-issues, including biases. For example, Neptune often takes a hit as being about "delusional" thinking, and Mars is usually seen as being all about violence and brute force. As for the Signs, it often becomes an anecdotal matter based solely on Sun-signs. But, the more you learn, the less the biased you become. Never stop learning!
 
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