Religious Basis for Astrology?

Ok, just wondering.... let's say that I'm an atheist. But, I believe and practice astrology. I don't think that the planets are "gods" or anything... I don't even really believe that we all have souls. Yet... I still believe and practice astrology. What does that make me then? Would I have to be considered "Pagan?" Because I really don't believe in a lot of that stuff.. ugh, I'm confused. (**** you rising Aquarius with Piscean Sun!)

Consider gods as archetypes (Jung)
I'm an atheist too... i work with astrology
But i don't belief in it
I find 'belief' a dirty word
I only believe in myself and people I know (and that believe is fluctuating)
But rather a fluctuating belief in things i can see, than a firm belief in things i can't see or touch
May be narrow minded

Practicing astrology makes you nothing more than an astrologer. Astrology isn't, in itself, a religion, but it can and often does come into strife with religions. This reminds me of the "Does the Christian God permit astrology?" question. Regardless of what I think about that particular question, I believe that if you can sleep at night saying you're a Christian Astrologer, Jewish Astrologer, Wiccan Astrologer, or any other religion, more power to you.

i work with astrology But i don't belief in it

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My Pisces Ascendant doesn't understand this comment. Why would you work with something you don't believe in? I don't mean this to come off as attacking you, so please don't take it that way. I just don't understand putting the time and energy into learning an infinately complicated system if you don't even believe in it.

Wow another aqua/pisc! what a combo eh? lol. Like a preist's soul with a scientists brain (also do have pisces stellium with the moon). Astrology can coincide with proven astronomy. Neptune is a watery, foggy, blurry planet i think you can see the connections with piscean "energy" and what neptune represents. Not that all the planets perfectly match such as this, but in a way they do when you think about it. Wouldn't it be great to prove Astrology to mainstream science? I know some of you may not particularly like this idea, however.

Is is mearly an art/science not a religion, although yes there is some mystical baggage. But really though you think the planets in various positions somehow makes people the way they are(to an extent) but that we just die and that's it? Nothing exists beyond your subjective conciousness? Just interesting. Something like astrology is just so "far out". Sorry not trying to be a jerk or anything i just find it intrigueing. Think about how "perfect" the 4 elements and the 3 qualities lining up so... well perfect to make trines, squares, etc. I just don't see how life itself could be just a fluke and nothing more then what we experience subjectivly. What about dreams? Psychics? Tarot? OOBE? but maybe you dont "believe" in all that. Anyway call me out if i'm being an ****.

Spreading ideas...

I am just wondering what an atheist is defined as these days. The nameless universal force is that defined as a religion. May be I am just mumbling but I feel that all those terms of religosity, universal understanding, why are we here are in dire need of redefinitions, because i dont have a clue what people beleive by the label.

Astrology is an intellectual and intuitive practice, which is based on ancient myth, old practices, and current philosophy. We can all have totally different belief basis and still practice astrology.

I suppose the interesting question is how a personal practice of astrology sits within one's particular belief system


L&L
Flea

I'd also agree that pure astrology as an intuitive science of cosmic understanding really has nothing to do with religion. Yet in fact, basically every religion shows some sort of respect for the cosmos in one form or another, for good reason!

That is the most interesting question, Flea... so here's my take on it.

As far as Christian opposition to astrology, that blows my mind.

You'll also find that the old testament of the bible makes no short order of acknowledging the validity of astrology as a form of communication which can show us signs:

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version) said:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

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Then, the story of the coming of Jesus would have it that "wise men" used astrological interpretation to understand the Master of Masters was about to be born.

Sure, the bible has several condemnations of inappropriate usage of the cosmic science, such as putting the stars above their creator, or claiming to be a prophet because of one's ability to interpret the cosmic signs, or thinking that astrological interpretation can "save" anyone, but the fact remains that an angel was sent to protect and guide the "wise men" who used astrological interpretation to understand the birth of the Messiah was to occur, and even allowed those same "wise men" to actually anoint the Messiah, the very Son Of God. If that isn't tactic acknowledgment of the validity of the practice by Christianity, I don't know what is! In more direct terms...The creator of the universe chose astrologers to both disclose and anoint his only son, and sent an angel to preserve them. I'm not really sure how much clearer the message can be, given the magnitude of the event.

But I'm sure we're all aware the majority of "Christians" these days are as fraudulent as a 3 dollar bill printed on toilet paper.

I wasn't saying that religion has nothing to do with astrology. I suppose I see everything anyone ever imagined saw or created is a way of viewing the same thing from a different perspective.

It all is humanity universe whatever. We comprehend it a little at a time from different points.

As for Christianity and astrology..... many christians use astrology, many do not. Certain christian organisations do not promote astrology, but I am not sure whether the basis for this is human or divine. Astrology was part of the Catholic ouvre until 6-8 hundred years ago. There is a church in Florence from 1200's that has a zodiac engraved on the stone floor. The monks there also associated every astrology sign with one of the twelve apostles. These amazingly beautiful scripts are still for sale at the church today, in latin of course.

It reminds me of a quote regarding Muslims in this case but it applies to everyone on the planet.... They may not recognise themselves from your description. The capacity for prejudice in humanity is only reduced to a nonentity by being aware of this.

From a religious point of view I would imagine it is the reason for using astrology and how it is used would be a bigger question than whether or not it is valid.

My meanderings are just that, and to be read in that manner.

love & Light
Flea

Astrology in the Bible
"There shall be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars." - Jesus Christ, Luke 21:25
The Bible is filled with references to astrology.
One of the great astrological stories in the Bible is the story of the star of Bethlehem. The three Magi, Persian astrologer-kings, determined the time of this birth by the position of this star. In 1600, Johannes Kepler "I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN.

The phrase, "third heaven," is a reference to the multi-level realms of the afterlife. This is an astrological/religious concept believed by Jews, Christians, Gnostic Christians, Platonists, and other people in those days. A correlation with Paul's third heaven can be found in the Gnostic book entitled "The Apocalypse of Paul."

The Apocalypse of Paul also describes Paul's afterlife visit to the third heaven. It also describes how Paul travels through a hierarchy of heavenly realms all the way to the "tenth heaven."

According to Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish historian, the Jewish temple at Jerusalem had the twelve signs of the zodiac inlaid in its floor. Josephus also stated that the twelve loaves of showbread in the temple was a reference to the zodiac. In modern times, Israel issued stamps with the zodiac signs identified with the twelve tribes of Israel and the astrological symbolism of the temple.

The Bible states that God made the heavenly bodies to show us "signs" of his intentions. These signs can be read by anyone who knows how to interpret them. Astrology is about interpreting these signs in the motions of the sun, moon, planets, and stars.
"And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as SIGNS to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the Earth." And it was so." (Gen. 1:14-15)

"And there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the Earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the Earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:25-27)

In the verse above, Christ uses astrology to reveal the "signs" in the sky of his coming.

The Bible states that the first communication from God came from the stars. David writes in his Psalm:

"The HEAVENS declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows his handiwork. Day after day utters his speech and night after night shows his knowledge. There is no tongue or language where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the Earth and their words to the ends of the world. In them (the heavens) he has set a tabernacle for the sun." (Psalm 19:1-4)

"Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth (the zodiac) in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs? (an astrological constellation)" (Job 38:32)

This Bible verse shows God using astrology to answer Job.

The Bible also describes an astrological sign called the "Morning Star" which is a reference to the planet Venus. The Morning Star, also known as the "light bringer", is also an astrological symbol that functions as a sign for the onset of dawn. It appears as a brilliant "star" at night just before the sun rises and brings light each morning to earth. The greatest function of this "light bringer" is as a symbolic reference to the Messiah who brings the light of God to the people. The Bible also uses the term "Morning Star" as a reference to all sons of God including Lucifer, the "light bearer".

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright MORNING STAR." (Rev. 22:16)

"And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the MORNING STAR rises in your hearts." (2 Peter 1:19)

"Just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the MORNING STAR." (Rev. 2:27-29)

"How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the Earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (Isaiah 14:12-14)

"After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. He said: "May the day of my birth perish ... May its MORNING STARS become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn, for it did not shut the doors of the womb on me to hide trouble from my eyes." (Job 3:1-10)

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? ... On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the MORNING STARS sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

In one of the prophetic dreams of Joseph, he saw eleven stars bowing down to his star. The interpretation of this dream was obvious and that was that Joseph's brothers will bow down to him.

"Then he (Joseph) had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" (Gen. 37:9-11)

Of course, we all know the rest of the story that they indeed had to bow down to Joseph when Pharaoh made him a prince because of his ability to interpret dreams.
Here is an excellent Bible passage that describes the astrological influences on humanity:

"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace." (Eccl. 3:1-8)

Astrology refers to every 2160 years as a new "AGE" which is a different sign of the zodiac that comes into position to influence the Earth. The Bible describes events that will occur according to the signs of the astrological "ages".

“And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the AGE.” (Matt. 28:20)

“Anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this AGE or in the AGE to come.” (Matt. 12:32)

“The harvest is the end of the AGE, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the AGE.” (Matt. 13:39-40)

“What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the AGE?” (Matt. 24:3)

“No one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this AGE and, in the AGE to come, eternal life.” (Luke 18:29-30)

“We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this AGE or of the rulers of this AGE ... None of the rulers of this AGE understood it.” (1 Cor. 3:6-8)

“These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the AGES has come.” (1 Cor. 10:11)

"[Christ was raised] far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present AGE but also in the one to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

“... who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming AGE.” (Heb. 6:5)

“Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the AGE of the ages.” (Heb. 9:26)

“Just and true are your ways, King of the AGES.” (Rev. 15:3)

All these Bible verses are referring to the end of the AGE of Pisces (the fish, the Church age) and the beginning of the AGE of Aquarius (the water-bearer, Christ).

Jesus was born under the end of the age of Aries (the ram or lamb) and this may explain why he called himself the "lamb of God." By the time Jesus began his ministry, it was the beginning of the age of Pisces (the fish, the Church age). The sign of the fish has special significance to Christianity because the sign of the fish has been known throughout the millennia to be the sign of Christianity. Jesus recruited "fishermen" as disciples to make them "fishers of men." He fed the masses with a miraculous draft of fishes. His followers were know in Latin as "pisciculi", the "little fishes." A commonly used icon in Christian churches is the "Vesica Piscis", which is Latin for "mouth of the fish". Its shape resembles a fish without a tail. It can be seen in the shape of stained glass windows in many churches and cathedrals. The Pope wears a ceremonial hat in the shape of a fish head.

Around the year 2300 A.D., the end of the age of Pisces will occur. The world will then enter a new age, the age of Aquarius (the Water-Bearer). It should be obvious to Christians that the identity of this "Water-Bearer" is the one who (1) came from the waters of Galilee(2) baptized with water (3) changed water into wine (4) walked on the water (5) washed the feet of others with water (6) calmed the ocean waters (7) gives living water (8) says we must be born of water (9) drank the cup from the Father.

Sometime before the age of Aquarius arrives, major earth changes were foretold by Jesus and Cayce to occur. Jesus said that before this happens, there will be wonders in the sun, moon, and stars signaling this coming age of the Christ consciousness. This is a good reason why every Christian should study astrology so that these heavenly signs can be interpreted.

Another astrological reference concerning Christianity deals with the winter equinox which begins on December 21. It is the day of the year when the night is longest and the daytime shortest. The ancient Egyptians noticed that on the winter equinox, the sun does not set farther south and sets in the same place on the horizon for three days. This is an astrological reference to when the sun (Son) goes down for three days (dies) and then begins to rise again (resurrection). Using the crude instruments available, ancient astronomers were able to detect by December 25th of each year that the daytime had become noticeably longer. This date was chosen, and remains, the traditional date for followers of many different religions to celebrate the "rebirth" of the sun. Following the solstice, each succeeding day has slightly more sunlight than the previous day. It was seen as a promise that warmth would return once more to the earth. Numerous pre-Christian religions honored their gods' birth or rebirth on or about that day.
The ancient Egyptians knew that as long as the sun rose in the morning, life would continue on the Earth. This explains why the Egyptians used the sun as their symbol for the eternal life of the cycle of the seasons. In many Christian churches today, the symbol of the cross with a circle in the center of it appears on church steeples. This icon of the circle as representing the sun, comes from the Egyptian belief that the sun represents eternal life.

In the Book of Revelation, the following symbolism is used to describe the appearance of the Son:

“Behold, he comes with clouds and every eye shall see him.” (Rev. 1:7) The Son (sun) is the “light of the world” and is seen by everyone.

“The Son (sun) of righteousness arises with healing in his wings.” (Malachi 4:2)

The Egyptian religion held that the Sun of God, Horus, was killed under the sign of Virgo (the virgin) but was resurrected in the age of Leo (the lion). This is why the Egyptians built the Sphinx with the head of a woman (Virgo) and the body of a lion (Leo).

During the days of Moses, the Hebrews were subject to the religion of Egypt. Before the worship of Amen-Ra (God) was instituted, Egyptians worshipped Isis (the Mother of God). When the Hebrews left Egypt and arrived in Canaan, their religion was influenced by the Canaanite religion whose God was named El (the planet of Saturn). The Star of David is a symbol which comes from the “star” of Saturn (El) which is the planet the ancients used to refer to the Hebrews.

With the influence of the religions of Isis, Ra and El, or:
Is(is) Ra El(Elohim-Lord) or Mother Father Son(Sun)
The Hebrews named their nation Is-Ra-El, or Israel. The Hebrews adopted Saturday (from Saturn’s day) as their day of worship. Christians, whose astrological influence was the sun (also from Egyptian origin), worshipped on Sunday (or the sun’s day).

The story of Jonah (Semetic for "sun") is about a man who is swallowed by a whale (death) and remains in it’s belly for three days at which time the man is freed (resurrection). This story is another symbolic of the astrological account of how the sun remains still for three days during the winter equinox. It is also symbolic of the resurrection of Christ.

When Moses came down from the mountain, he saw the people worshipping a golden calf. This idol came from the Egyptians astrological worship of the sun. Golden represents the color of the sun. The calf (Taurus the bull) represents the age in which the Moses lived when he wrote the Torah. When history moved into the next sign (Aries the ram), the Hebrews celebrated the approach of their Messiah by blowing rams horns. The sign of Aries influenced many religions to adopt the “lamb of God” concept.

The concept of the zodiac is very ancient, with roots in the early cited cultures of Mesopotamia. Astrology is, more than likely, the oldest religion created by humans. The first twelve-sign zodiacs were named after the gods of these cultures. The Greeks adopted astrology from the Babylonians, and the Romans, in turn, adopted astrology from the Greeks. These cultures renamed the signs of the Mesopotamian zodiac to symbols of their own mythologies. This is why the familiar zodiac of the contemporary West bears names out of Mediterranean mythology.

The concept of reincarnation is a necessary tenet of astrology. The notions of reincarnation and karma together explain why some people are born into lucky circumstances and others into unfortunate conditions. For astrologers concerned with the question of why some people are born into a life of hardship written large across their horoscopes and other people seem to be born under a lucky star, reincarnation and karma prove important explanatory tools to understand divine justice. Reincarnation also provides a framework for explaining why a person has certain personality traits. They are carryovers from past lifetimes.
"There shall be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars." - Jesus Christ, Luke 21:25


[parts of books were edited out because or copyright breach. the Bible is not under copyrigth, so I left those excerpts.Moderator.]

Hmmm not sure Sag-moon if I would agree that reincarnation or karma is a necessary part of astrology. I would agree that it can be interpreted or viewed from that perspective and also many others. Also I am not a fan of a good or bad karmic astrology. I do think that some highly evolved individuals do have extremely difficult astrology. I suppose I dont agree with the idea of a "punishing god". There is some casue to the idea of karma being actually voluntary.

I suspect there are high and low reasons for ascribing to astrology. I am sure there might have been the odd ancient "king" that may have used astrology in order to retain a despotic type of rule.

So it is not whether you use astrology but why and how which is an important question. I tend towards the idea that predicting the future is a slightly dangerous activity as it means we are likely to stop being an active creator of our future. We have free will which means we create, we can act with the universal or for purely individual interest. Each I think would teach a different lesson.

I still like the idea of your chart as your musical instrument. Practice makes perfect, and that entails a lot of mistakes.

And yes i dont think there is any argument that astology is a pertinent subject in the Bible, as Astrology was a very important part of Babylonian culture.

Love & Light
Flea

HI Sag Moon!

I liked your post quoting all the sriptures. You are well studied. ( Sag myself - Pentecostal/Charismatic! Would you believe it?)

Would love to compare notes with you - check out some books and scripture references. I run a website called God's Friends = www.godsfriends.co.uk

I have pretty much been barred/banned from posting on church websites now. Those very charismatic churches I used to be part of could not cope with new revelation!

Keep it going! You shine!

Len

may be you dont belive coz you didnt get right answers from what you practice

From a Biblical perspective the scripture in Job got my attention! Job and God are having a debate. After Job spoke God replied as follows:

Job 38:31 (KJV)
Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?


Mazzaroth or the Zodiac, Zodiac from a primitive Hebrew root Sodi, or "the way" in sanscrit.

I was in Los Angeles recently and listened to a sermon on a Christian TV station. A Jewish pastor was preaching a sermon while on tour with a USA tour group. He mentioned that the Minorah (The golden candlestick - a piece of furniture in the Jewish Temple) had 7 branches, and each branch represented a planet from our Solar system.

Hense the astrological link.

The translators did not quite know what to make of the word mazzaroth, so they left it in its hebrew form when they translated the King James Version.

Peace and blessings

Len

Lenvdb said:

HI Sag Moon!

I liked your post quoting all the sriptures. You are well studied. ( Sag myself - Pentecostal/Charismatic! Would you believe it?)

Would love to compare notes with you - check out some books and scripture references. I run a website called God's Friends = www.godsfriends.co.uk

I have pretty much been barred/banned from posting on church websites now. Those very charismatic churches I used to be part of could not cope with new revelation!

Keep it going! You shine!

Len

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Len:
THose are not my writinngs ,but I agree with most of it. The point is that is that so much of the prophets life was setforth through the revealing of the stars and he recognized it. That should tell us something as to it being worthy as a tool to show us what might come to past.

The art is interprettion.

I have a gift where I can see through events of what might happen based on previous events and the understanding of cultures. I am less of an astrologer using it as a predictive tool. I have on occations been able to use it though.

As far as the rebirth, Karmic and reincarnation life I can only relate to what I know about myself.I was crucifiedin a former life time and was here during WWII. I have no idea what I did in those times.

There are certain traits that one has which give clues to what they may have experienced in previous lifetimes.

as far as the Jewish tradion the tribes of Israel were denoted as having a sign that associates with each of them.

I think John the Baptist was reincarnated due to what Jesus had to say about his when his disciples asked of him or when Elijah was to come. He said he did and they did what they wanted with him or something.

When asked of the last of times he said it would be shown in the heavens. That time may be coming with Cap-Aries AP being active in the years to come.

We will not get wiped out,but it will be very chaotic.

Thanks just my opinion though.

Sag, are you sure Saturn is the planet ruling or representing the Jews? El means mighty or powerful. Satan, (I'm pretty sure this is Saturn) means the adversary, accusor or opponant. When asked by Moses, "Who do I say sent me?" God told him, just say I am sent you. That sounds like Aries and many other things do too, like the burning bush, the pillar of cloud by day and fire by night, the angry jealous side.....When he described himself he was ending the age of Taurus, thus the golden calf being frowned upon, and introducing the age of Aries when they were to conquer the promised land. Yes, they do worship on Saturday, but because that is when God was able to rest, his work done. Saturn falls in Aries, just as Satan was said to have fallen from heaven. His heaven is probably Libra where everyone is equal but God said no one is equal with him. That is Aries for sure. Interesting though, one of the names for God used the most is Elohim which is a plural, as every word is ending in ym or im. I think this shows the microcosm within the macrocosm. God is all and everything that exists.

The 12 sons of Jacob, tribes of Isreal are clearly symbolic of the 12 signs. Knowing the meaning of their names and their stories gives great understanding I've barely even begun to dig in to.

I believe the Vesica Piscis is also the yoni and female genitilia isn't it?

My dictionary says Johah means dove, as the warmth of their mating and may come from a word meaning wine which also causes warmth. He was in the belly of the whale 3 days. The ovum lives about 3 days too.

As to the subject of the thread, I believe the practice of astrology has as its basis a spiritual foundation. It is turned into a religion by some, for example, setting down dogmatic rules that don't adjust or evolve and serve to create camps and divisions. That is the greatest hinderence to ever reconciling science, astronomy and astrology.

One of the great astrological stories in the Bible is the story of the star of Bethlehem. It is written that the star was a sign from God signaling the birth of the Messiah into the world. The three Magi, Persian astrologer-kings, determined the time of this birth by the position of this star. In 1600, Johannes Kepler hypothesized that this star was actually a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. Confirmed by modern astrology, this symbolism ties in with the prophecies of that era concerning a Messiah amongst the Jews. The conjunctions occurred at the end of Pisces, ruled by Jupiter. Jupiter is the planet of kings. Saturn is the planet that rules the Jews, thereby giving the king of the Jews. This was a very infrequent triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn and it occurred in the year 7 B.C.

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I heard a much different story than this. The version I had heard was that Jupiter and Venus performed a series of conjunctions within the Sign of Aries in late February of 7 A.D. I think the symbolism of Venus and Jupiter are much better than that of Saturn and Jupiter. As it said, Jupiter was the planet of Kings, but also, the greater and the lesser benefic being in conjunction within the Sign of Aries could not have been a better boon. Also consider that Aries is the Sign that is associated with Judea and you have in the cauldron of interpretations a loving (Venus) king (Jupiter) in Judea (Aries), which is where we are told he was born. EDIT: A point I orginally forgot to make is that the Wise Men were most likely Muslim with no connection to the not yet existing Christian faith, and even then, people have used stars to navigate since the beginning of time, so there might not even be anything astrological about it. Then you throw in the idea of how the whole thing could be just a story...

Jesus was born under the end of the age of Aries (the ram or lamb) and this may explain why he called himself the "lamb of God." By the time Jesus began his ministry, it was the beginning of the age of Pisces (the fish, the Church age). The sign of the fish has special significance to Christianity because the sign of the fish has been known throughout the millennia to be the sign of Christianity.

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This, also is not so correct. The Age of Aries didn't end until around 498 A.D. The Age of Pisces won't end until around 2600, for those of you who like acurate dates, they're saying 2654. Jesus was dead for over 450 years before the Ram's Age ended.

AquarianEssence said:

Sag, are you sure Saturn is the planet ruling or representing the Jews? El means mighty or powerful. Satan, (I'm pretty sure this is Saturn) means the adversary, accusor or opponant. When asked by Moses, "Who do I say sent me?" God told him, just say I am sent you. .

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objection, your honor! it is all hearsay. Has anyone actually heard besides Moses God's words? NO. so what makes you say with no witnesses that God out of nowhere came and said "just say i am sent you." *HUH> is that in english? are you sure Moses wasnt under illegal or legal *now illegal* at that time substances?

AquarianEssence said:

That sounds like Aries and many other things do too, like the burning bush, the pillar of cloud by day and fire by night, the angry jealous side.....When he described himself he was ending the age of Taurus, thus the golden calf being frowned upon, and introducing the age of Aries when they were to conquer the promised land. Yes, they do worship on Saturday, but because that is when God was able to rest, his work done. Saturn falls in Aries, just as Satan was said to have fallen from heaven. His heaven is probably Libra where everyone is equal but God said no one is equal with him. That is Aries for sure. Interesting though, one of the names for God used the most is Elohim which is a plural, as every word is ending in ym or im. I think this shows the microcosm within the macrocosm. God is all and everything that exists..

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Objection! anthropologists note that weeks of other durations (varying from three to eight days) are found in many pre-modern societies. They also observe that the name for "week" is often the same as that for "market day", suggesting the concept of a week is likely to arise in any agrarian or pre-agrarian society where people have marketplaces or market days. Hindu civilization employed a seven-day week, mentioned in the Ramayana, a sacred epic written in Sanskrit about 500 BC, as Bhanu-vaar meaning Sunday, Soma-vaar meaning Moon-day and so forth.
The ancient Babylonians observed a seven-day week, stemming from astronomical observation and association. Days and deities were based on the seven heavenly bodies or "luminaries" visible to the naked eye (the Sun, Moon, and 5 visible planets).
The Hebrew (and later Christian) seven-day week corresponds to the biblical creation story, in which God created the universe in six days, then rested on the seventh.
also, it is noted that ancients divided lunar month in quarters .. the week as we know it came around 1 AD. PRIOR TO THIS .. The Roman empire had 8 day week! Shall I continue?
Speaking of the Jewish views on astrology, "You shall not practice divination or soothsaying." (Leviticus 19:26, New JPS)
"When you enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to imitate the abhorrent practices of the nations. Let no one be found among you who...is an auger, a soothsayer, a diviner, a sorceror, one casts spells.....For anyone who does these things is abhorrent to the LORD..." (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
BTW, Torah is 5 books of Moses. So someone is being a hypocrite. He could claim that God spoke to him yet the old testament bans people from practicing astrology? Let's see .. what would be a reason .. OHH YEAH i got it. CONTROLLNG PEOPLE! imagine if you can crack astrology back in that day, you would be more powerful that Moses himself who said that God spoke to him in the Mount Sinai and no one has a clue where it is at! YEAH RIGHT! whatever!

AquarianEssence said:

The 12 sons of Jacob, tribes of Isreal are clearly symbolic of the 12 signs. Knowing the meaning of their names and their stories gives great understanding I've barely even begun to dig in to..

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Objection! 12 signs were not always present.
In Babylon and Egypt, Aries was the first sign that appeared in Egypt and it represented the Egyptians. Geminis were called "twin stars" by Egypt. Egyptians used Lion to represnt Leos but Babylonians used Great Dog. Virgos were called Great Mother by Babylonians and Egyptians labeled Virgo to represent grain goddess Nidaba.
After the occupation by Alexander the great in 332 bc, Egypt came under Greek tradition. Babylonian astrology was mixed with the Egyptian to form Horoscopic astrology, as we know it today.. I do not see any connection with the Holy Land.

AquarianEssence said:

I believe the Vesica Piscis is also the yoni and female genitilia isn't it?

My dictionary says Johah means dove, as the warmth of their mating and may come from a word meaning wine which also causes warmth. He was in the belly of the whale 3 days. The ovum lives about 3 days too.

As to the subject of the thread, I believe the practice of astrology has as its basis a spiritual foundation. It is turned into a religion by some, for example, setting down dogmatic rules that don't adjust or evolve and serve to create camps and divisions. That is the greatest hinderence to ever reconciling science, astronomy and astrology.

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From day 1, the only people who practiced astrology were the priests of Babylon. Astrology was some kind of cult where there were 2 priests were dicifering the will and intention of the gods, the other being through the inspection of the liver of the sacrificial animal. if you were an astrologer at that time, you were worshipped as a messenger of gods.

your witness////


Tik

Geez:
I never thought this would turn into a battle in a court or anything,LOL!

Yes DA & Tik the hebrews did associate the signs with the tribes. It was probably Zoroastrian priests that foretold the coming of the Jewish king do to the conj of Ju/Sa in Pisces whixh ruled the Jewish nation

Jesus I think believed that you could resd the signs of the end by looking at the hevens.

I posted a whole post about it.

Hi Sag

I was watching Law and Order. I just couldnt resist the temptation of objecting!

Yeah, how would you feel if you found out years later that babies were hunted down just because one of 3 kings told whachamacallhim that you were born? so Jesus probably thought "my birth caused so much grief." Then he made a huge billboard with "HEY, people Learn astrology go to astrologyweekly.com! you do not need priests or arabian astrologers, "

Tik

This is perhaps where my understanding in the occult has shown me that it is all part of the stuggle between light and darkness.

In the Pentecostal church I attended, we were often bombarded with being sinners who need God and salvation. But what is sin? All these well meaning people had so many interpretations of this simple little word. My mother believed playing any sports at school was sin. Watching movies and listening to non christian music was sin. Man did we get beatings as kids!!

Sin is an english word derived from the latin word sine. It simply means "Lack". In this application it means lack of the Light. And where there is a lack of the Light of God you find darkness. Ps 23 says the Lord is my shepher I shall lack nothing. It seems that lack in ones life is a fertile breeding ground for other evil. Jesus, being sent into the world came as the Light and the darkness did not understand Him. Hense the decision to kill Him.

The forces of darkness do not care about innocent children and suffering people. Satan works at his best by keeping people in darkness. He can control us better. He comes to kill steal and destroy. And he is represented by the dark side of all of humanity. It could be as individuals or even collectively. Whatever the level of consciousness are, there is not enough darkness in the universe to drive out the light given by one candle. And Jesus shone into the darkness of ignorance and hatred and asks us to do so as well.

Oops. Sorry if this sounds like a sermon. But I am sure we are all aware of the eternal struggle between Light and Darkness. Even Edgar Cayce spoke about how it played out in ancient Egypt and Atlantis.

I see the I could be part of the problem or part of the solution. I choose to be part of the solution to create a better world, a consciousness of peace and light and harmony. Lets drive away the darkness.

Peace and blessings

Len

tikana said:

Hi Sag

I was watching Law and Order. I just couldnt resist the temptation of objecting!

Yeah, how would you feel if you found out years later that babies were hunted down just because one of 3 kings told whachamacallhim that you were born? so Jesus probably thought "my birth caused so much grief." Then he made a huge billboard with "HEY, people Learn astrology go to astrologyweekly.com! you do not need priests or arabian astrologers, "

Tik

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Geez,another L&O freak,lol! There shlould be a 24hr. channle dedicated to just L&O. My sister has seen every one and still does not miss the re-runs.

Anyway,I would read the doctrine to the Catholic church and talk to a few priest to understand why they do the things they do. There is a bunch of stuff I did not understand as to why things were done and still are to this day.

A priest is in a way a psychologist and other professionals all rolled into one for those that seek their guidance.

My father was a Catholic and mother was Lutheran and I read as much as to biblical history to see what exectly I believed. In the end it came down to where do all the other people go once they leave this plane ?

There is no religion that has their corner on who gets to heaven. we all shall that follow whatever path we believe as long as it is true IMO. God visits all human's I think.It's up to us to walk in the ways he would want us to.