members

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I've been in communication with Paul for some time.
His reason for leaving was that he didn't like the way the mods edited his posts.
Paul didn't leave because he thought other members were attacking him.
Paul_ can speak for himself :smile:
via one of his last posts
addressed to a moderator
prior to requesting the closure of his account
Tim

Thank you for your moderation, I feel we have been keeping you far too busy.

I mean this only for myself,
and only as advice
,
but I have a very thick skin,
I can take some critical posts and
some character attacks
.
I am somewhat used to them.


It may save you inconvenience to
let personal attacks against me stand
.
I am of the opinion that they better serve my arguments anyway.

If you want a breather,
you can ignore attacks against me
- if something strong comes up that I think is unwarranted
I will ask you to apply your judgement as usual.

Paul
the above post clearly highlights that
Paul_ is directing a moderators attention
to personal attacks levied against Paul_ on the thread



...I was in PM communication with Paul at the time he asked to terminate his membership, and periodically since then.
The reason wasn't because he felt "constantly attacked,"
but because he disliked the way his own posts were edited
.
The quote from Paul_ clearly refers to personal attacks levied against him on the thread
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Something funny I noticed one time:

When the pluto thread was at its peak on the research section before it was moved, and at the times the "usual" posters were online making posts (like waybread and me doing 5 posts per hour)

I noticed that there were around 200/300 users reading that section those days... :whistling:

Otherwise, a section that its used or read much less.

Its funny because those topics where mods and trads clash are usually pretty popular, and have a high number of readers that do not involve themselves in those discussions.

As long as they are well-mannered (relative) and and insults aren't used, would seem to be intresting to many.

:joyful:

--

The problem with mod and trad clash goes both sides.

However I don't think there is this thing of people imposing their method on the practical sections, like RMC or Horary.

Usually "RMC" is more modern based, and "Horary" more trad dominant.

In the horary section, most of the times its the "fish out of water" that fills insulted for no reason when people don't seem to agree with him, and starts making posts and quotes challenging others and their method.....just because people gave a delineation very different from his.

And don't take JUPASC linking traditional guides in the RMC as an offense. He is offering new people information...not meant as an insult to anyone.

Most of the times as a trad, I just give my delineation, and only explain why I don't use this or that when asked by the OP or another user.

Usually the threads that have these fights are theory based threads, where this kind of thing is supposed to happen. Obviously those topics are battlegrounds, but they are mostly contained.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Sorry, JA but if you wish to use Paul as some type of traditional exemplar driven from the forum by nasty modern astrologers, I should remind you that he doesn't define himself as a traditional astrologer, although he is an expert in traditional astrology. The big debate, if you recall, wasn't trad vs. modern, but the ethics of astrological death prediction, with fur flying on both sides of the issues. If you dispute my recollections, please pm Paul at Astrodienst or Skyscript, and ask for his permission to quote his reply on this thread. I didn't save Paul's PMs to me on his leaving this forum, or I would ask for his permission to post them here. I could PM him myself for a new set of recollections, but to what purpose? Frankly this recent little exchange is but one more example of what I find so tiresome in any type of trad-modern debate lately on this forum.

In terms of driving anyone off the forum or off a particular thread, Kannon in our current thread on rectification got fed up; and, as a professional astrologer, felt that he had more productive uses of his time than countering beligerant trad misconceptions. Ex-member (banned) Astrologer50 was a modern astrologer, so where does this get us? Some kind of meaningless body count?

Most of us are good with a reasoned debate that doesn't get out of hand. Frankly, when faced with aggressive nit-picking, I just tend to ignore that person's posts after a while.

From the Life's Too Short Department, W.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sorry, JA but if you wish to use Paul as some type of traditional exemplar driven from the forum by nasty modern astrologers, I should remind you that he doesn't define himself as a traditional astrologer, although he is an expert in traditional astrology. The big debate, if you recall, wasn't trad vs. modern, but the ethics of astrological death prediction, with fur flying on both sides of the issues. If you dispute my recollections, please pm Paul at Astrodienst or Skyscript, and ask for his permission to quote his reply on this thread. I didn't save Paul's PMs to me on his leaving this forum, or I would ask for his permission to post them here. I could PM him myself for a new set of recollections, but to what purpose? Frankly this recent little exchange is but one more example of what I find so tiresome in any type of trad-modern debate lately on this forum.

In terms of driving anyone off the forum or off a particular thread, Kannon in our current thread on rectification got fed up; and, as a professional astrologer, felt that he had more productive uses of his time than countering beligerant trad misconceptions. Ex-member (banned) Astrologer50 was a modern astrologer, so where does this get us? Some kind of meaningless body count?

Most of us are good with a reasoned debate that doesn't get out of hand. Frankly, when faced with aggressive nit-picking, I just tend to ignore that person's posts after a while.

From the Life's Too Short Department, W.
better than 'hearsay' are Paul_ posts :smile:
as well as the Paul_ post I quoted
these are searchable on our forum for anyone who wishes to check for themselves
provided 'Life's Not Too Short' obviously
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Something funny I noticed one time:

When the pluto thread was at its peak on the research section
before it was moved
,
and at the times the "usual" posters were online making posts (like waybread and me doing 5 posts per hour)

I noticed that there were around 200/300 users reading that section those days... :whistling:

Otherwise, a section that its used or read much less.

Its funny because those topics where mods and trads clash are usually pretty popular,
and have a high number of readers that do not involve themselves in those discussions.
Interesting :smile:
 

ALRESCHA

Well-known member
In terms of driving anyone off the forum or off a particular thread, Kannon in our current thread on rectification got fed up; and, as a professional astrologer, felt that he had more productive uses of his time than countering beligerant trad misconceptions.

Nooo!

Well, his name is Jupiterasc, right?

http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/planet_jupiter


Inflated, expansive, or otherwise grandiose statements seem perfectly appropriate for someone with a strong Jupiter influence, based on what I've read about it.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. It's just the opposite role of Mercury. Where someone with a Mercury influence tries to break things down and reduce them, someone with a Jupiter influence tries to put things together and make them into one larger thing. It's analysis vs. synthesis.

If you're more of a Mercury person, and he's more of a Jupiter person, there is bound to be conflict because you each undo one another's process. Just as Integration undoes Differentiation in Calculus, or vice-versa. Understanding the difference in approach can be instrumental in getting along with different kinds of people.

Astrologers should be expected to overcome their own charts IMHO.

[deleted personal member comment - Moderator]

One must analyse a member well before they interact with them, this environment is too dangerous to be spontaneous and that is something every member here should understand before posting :(

I should also say that the fact that I was happy about democracy here means I am happy there's no hegemony, not that I am happy that a certain person got banned.

And there was another thing, but I forgot hahahah
 
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diamondbaby

Well-known member
One thing I find very tiring on this forum are attacks against modern astrology techniques, apparently simply because they are modern. There is a place for all kinds of astrology here, but anyone who strongly disapproves of modern astrology might actually be happier at Skyscript. Sensitive people do leave forums if they feel they are under attack.

Not necessarily sensitive. Some people just don't want to waste their time with pointless online arguing. Online "fights" are mentally draining. I wholeheartedly agree regarding the attacks against modern astrology. Also, I find it annoying that certain people try to monopolize threads, force their thoughts on others and provoke other members into arguments. It all comes down to live and let live.
 

ALRESCHA

Well-known member
This place being 'too dangerous to be spontaneous in' is a bit melodramatic, don't you think?

No.. :pouty: I got banned due to false accusations once before on a good forum just after a senior moderator proposed to make me a moderator. A moderator's late apology didn't help.

People generally misunderstand me, I put my signature there for a reason. And on this forum everyone's looking for anything to point their finger at you for. It is better to be safe than sorry.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
No.. :pouty: I got banned due to false accusations once before on a good forum just after a senior moderator proposed to make me a moderator. A moderator's late apology didn't help.

People generally misunderstand me, I put my signature there for a reason. And on this forum everyone's looking for anything to point their finger at you for. It is better to be safe than sorry.

Oh, I suppose everyone experiences the forums (or any online interaction) differently. I see way worse on other websites so this place is quite languid in comparison.

I tend to enjoy the theoretical jousts that happen on this forum, it shows me that there is still some life on this relatively slow board. Based on the views that the threads that houses these battles get, others do too.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Could someone explains the feud between modern and tradition astrologers?

Probably not
:smile:


However


traditional astrology as defined on this forum is:

QUOTE FROM OUR TRADITIONAL BOARD GUIDELINES

Note:
Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras.
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction)
and
exludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,)
non-Ptolemaic aspects,
as well as any asteroids.

The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation
and
more on prediction.

Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion
 

ALRESCHA

Well-known member
Oh, I suppose everyone experiences the forums (or any online interaction) differently. I see way worse on other websites so this place is quite languid in comparison.

I tend to enjoy the theoretical jousts that happen on this forum, it shows me that there is still some life on this relatively slow board. Based on the views that the threads that houses these battles get, others do too.

yeah, for me, this forum it is a battle ground and I have to post like I have graduated from a law school for some reason.

Everyone enjoys them, and I agree that this website has the greatest potential, but, to answer V's question

Mods (the majority of those that have left the forum) seem to leave because they feel the attacks coming from trads too hard to bear with. The attacks occur when an OP posts about a technique used in modern astrology and then trads storm the topic saying that the technique doesn't work on a thread that is not about discussing theory. o_O Then they turn into the greatest lawyers you could ever find and everything you say can be used against you.

That is far from a healthy debate.

But the moderators do clear that up, so I don't understand why they leave. If someone is constantly accusing you of being hostile, you stay the hell away!

I am not sure why the trads leave, I only got here recently.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
yeah, for me, this forum it is a battle ground and I have to post like I have graduated from a law school for some reason.

Everyone enjoys them, and I agree that this website has the greatest potential, but, to answer V's question

Mods (the majority of those that have left the forum) seem to leave because they feel the attacks coming from trads too hard to bear with. The attacks occur when an OP posts about a technique used in modern astrology and then trads storm the topic saying that the technique doesn't work on a thread that is not about discussing theory. o_O Then they turn into the greatest lawyers you could ever find and everything you say can be used against you.

That is far from a healthy debate.

But the moderators do clear that up, so I don't understand why they leave. If someone is constantly accusing you of being hostile, you stay the hell away!

I am not sure why the trads leave, I only got here recently.

ALRESCHA let me ask...in how many posts have you felt attacked by trads?

There is the "pluto" thread mainly in which trads/mods argued.

Then there is the "rectification" thread, which isn't actually about moderns VS trads given that none of us questioned the use of modern techniques.

Then....which other topics? 2 out of the thousands there are on this forum..? which are supposed to be about debating things.
 

ALRESCHA

Well-known member
ALRESCHA let me ask...in how many posts have you felt attacked by trads?

There is the "pluto" thread mainly in which trads/mods argued.

Then there is the "rectification" thread, which isn't actually about moderns VS trads given that none of us questioned the use of modern techniques.

Then....which other topics? 2 out of the thousands there are on this forum..? which are supposed to be about debating things.

My goodness, I do not keep count ahahahah But it was ugly.

There were times when I didn't feel attacked, so I didn't report them, but the moderators understood that those posts were actually attacks and deleted them.

Other times I didn't report them like I promised here, because I felt sorry for them.

And my post where I was answering V's question was not about my personal experience, obviously I was talking about the people who left.

I have read that the trads leave because they don't feel welcome on those threads.

I can say for myself that I do mind if what the OP posts is my call, so I wouldn't post on their sub-forum.

Maybe I'll do a little experiment outside of it when someone posts a RMC request and starts whining about their cancer Mars or something and tell them how Neptune is actually doing that, just to see what will happen. Maybe I'll recommend a book on Pluto too. Let's see what happens.
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
My goodness, I do not keep count ahahahah But it was ugly.

There were times when I didn't feel attacked, so I didn't report them, but the moderators understood that those posts were actually attacks and deleted them.

Other times I didn't report them like I promised here, because I felt sorry for them.

And my post where I was answering V's question was not about my personal experience, obviously I was talking about the people who left.

I don't believe that is the reason people leave.

I know a lot of users from the horary section who left just because there was nothing "fun" to do. There isn't a specific cause.

But its hard to imagine you would be getting attacked often given that there are very few trads around. Most of us stay within the Horary section, and never get out of it. Few actually venture outside that section mostly Oddity, JUPASC and me...

And for example, the rectification thread wasn't about trads vs moderns. If a traditional astrologer would have made a similar claim I would have also questioned it (and I assume the same from others). Its about astrology in general, not if someone is modern and the other trad.

I do not deny trads sometimes tend to be the instigators of debate more often than moderns, but it is usually in a sense of discussion. We do infact sometimes argue like that among ourselves.

Its just the way we do astrology. We usually question our peers regarding applied methods.

I can understand why a modern can feel attacked by a trad when this happens. But it isn't out of spite, its rather how trads are, and they are like that among themselves too.
 
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ALRESCHA

Well-known member
OK. I told what happened.

JA has accused me of something before, and I showed her that I understand her, but she keeps doing it even after that.

It is pointless.

And saying that I felt sorry for them means I was concerned about how they would feel after they would get a warning or something, so I didn't do it.

I'd better explain before that post gets misinterpreted too.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
My goodness, I do not keep count ahahahah But it was ugly.

There were times when I didn't feel attacked, so I didn't report them, but the moderators understood that those posts were actually attacks and deleted them.

Other times I didn't report them like I promised here, because I felt sorry for them.

And my post where I was answering V's question was not about my personal experience, obviously I was talking about the people who left.

I have read that the trads leave because they don't feel welcome on those threads.

I can say for myself that I do mind if what the OP posts is my call, so I wouldn't post on their sub-forum.

Maybe I'll do a little experiment outside of it when someone posts a RMC request and starts whining about their cancer Mars or something and tell them how Neptune is actually doing that, just to see what will happen. Maybe I'll recommend a book on Pluto too. Let's see what happens.

OK. I told what happened.

JA has accused me of something before, and I showed her that I understand her, but she keeps doing it even after that.

It is pointless.

And saying that I felt sorry for them means I was concerned about how they would feel after they would get a warning or something, so I didn't do it.

I'd better explain before that post gets misinterpreted too.

Were you the one who threatened him with putting a curse on him, on the pluto thread?

:happy::happy:

I get that the discussions among trads and mods usually go bad. But as I said, it isn't exactly about being mean to each other. Trads just tend to question things more often. Its just how we do it.

I understand why mods can feel attacked by that.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Were you the one who threatened him with putting a curse on him, on the pluto thread?


:happy::happy:
It was lauren2x who posted a death threat :smile:
but it was deleted by a moderator
so I survived fortunately
and lived to post another day
most of the attacks were deleted and the remaining ones are tame in comparison
for example
JA stop trying to prove that pluto is not a planet or astrological planet you waste your time
But this is a discussion forum.....
I get that the discussions among trads and mods usually go bad.
But as I said, it isn't exactly about being mean to each other.
Trads just tend to question things more often. Its just how we do it.

I understand why mods can feel attacked by that.
Nevertheless, dr. farr who unfortunately no longer posts due to ill health
somehow combined not only modern with traditional :smile:
but also scattered some vedic and jyotish into the mix
without arguing either with himself or with anyone else

AND had a high success rate on the horary forum
but then he did begin studying astrology very young and had more than fifty years of experience
 
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