Since reading about Astrology, by looking at someone's 'star sign' through to deeper learning about houses and aspects, I'm a bit confused still about the 12th house. Naturally I've been looking at a lot of charts along the way and its helped me understand how things work, and has made me see people differently when I look up charts with my friends and we talk about them and if they relate. However, I have a friend whose chart confuses me somewhat, because she is so placid, very nice but quiet. She has Taurus rising which seems very prominent - but the Sun and Moon tightly conjunct in Aries in the 12th which I cannot pick up at all and we've been friends a long time. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? She has 2 other personal planets in the 12th too, Mercury in Aries and Venus in Pisces (which puzzles me more still).
Wow thanks that makes a lot of sense, ha quite a pair of signs for these placements to have working together so prominently in one person, Aries and Pisces. So the sign rulers of the Sun, Moon and Ascendant show... what exactly? How does it work? The sign the Sun is in shows the characteristics of the personality, for example, and then the sign the Sun sign's ruler is in shows how it manifests - is that correct?
I'm now wondering about my own chart, which seems to come in a loop. Sun in Virgo, Virgo's ruler Mercury though is also in Virgo, conjunct the Sun. And my Gemini Moon's ruler is also Mercury. What might that say about me if we were reading from a textbook? And how does the 8th house factor in?
Not only that but the ruler of my Ascendant is in my first house too, seems like all these energies are getting a big exclamation point.
Beginners are frequently confused simply because individual Astrologers have personal opinions and often disagreeRoots and natures of the unconscious. The 12th house is very good at confusing people sometimes, because that's what it does.
The traditional views of institutions and things like that even demonstrate how confusing this house can be. This house seems to get away with a lot of things that a lot of other houses can be blamed for too quickly. I think that the 8th house gets blamed too often for these types of things and the 12th house, naturally the credit-or-blame will be hidden.
Just because there may be sacrifice does not mean that it can't work out great in the end... Julia and Derek Parker taught that the 8th house may be the mode of operation, but the 12th house is more likely to be the nature.
There are multiple astrological techniquesThat's so interesting,
how did you guys learn this if you don't mind me asking?
Is it mostly solo study?
I'd like to learn more efficiently,
maybe from a mentor
but I'm not sure where to find somewhere to learn properly.
I want to be able to read a chart at a level where I'm picking up on all the important aspects.
That my friend is so Piscean really clicks, I feel like I've just discovered a hidden layer within the birth chart - thanks! Yes, I feel very in tune with everything I've read about Virgo, it seems to permeate everything I am (whereas reading about Aries with my friend, the connection was not so clear for either of us, my friend isn't into astrology and I think that didn't ignite any interest where it definitely did ignite it for me with Virgo).
The Scorpio in my chart is something I can back up too, I'm following a fashion design career path but not through the usual routes. Research comes easily and I can be quite obsessive in that area, issues arose at uni regarding the ideas I chose to explore with total honesty, as they sometimes 'weren't very nice' and I ended up leaving to do it my own way (I'm currently apprenticing as a tailor and am totally in my element among the tiny details I'm required to perfect by hand through learning the craft - its clothing the old school way, perfection is the goal!).
And my friend has Pluto tightly conjunct her descendant in Scorpio, is this why we're friends?! Haha!
With reference to:Jupiter and Waybread, thanks for the replies.
I am curious what people think about overlap.
Astro has a section that says one thing that may overlap in traditional and modern interpretations was "Self-Undoing."
Also, a problem both viewpoints might share (according to the link below)
could be
"How do you accurately see it's [12th house] territory?"
(In reference to both traditional or modern).
What do you all believe to be true about the overlap when interpreting from either traditional or modern in the 12th house?
I provided the source where I read these things.
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgtwehouse_e.htm
That's so interesting, how did you guys learn this if you don't mind me asking? Is it mostly solo study? I'd like to learn more efficiently, maybe from a mentor but I'm not sure where to find somewhere to learn properly. I want to be able to read a chart at a level where I'm picking up on all the important aspects.
That my friend is so Piscean really clicks, I feel like I've just discovered a hidden layer within the birth chart - thanks! Yes, I feel very in tune with everything I've read about Virgo, it seems to permeate everything I am (whereas reading about Aries with my friend, the connection was not so clear for either of us, my friend isn't into astrology and I think that didn't ignite any interest where it definitely did ignite it for me with Virgo).
The Scorpio in my chart is something I can back up too, I'm following a fashion design career path but not through the usual routes. Research comes easily and I can be quite obsessive in that area, issues arose at uni regarding the ideas I chose to explore with total honesty, as they sometimes 'weren't very nice' and I ended up leaving to do it my own way (I'm currently apprenticing as a tailor and am totally in my element among the tiny details I'm required to perfect by hand through learning the craft - its clothing the old school way, perfection is the goal!).
And my friend has Pluto tightly conjunct her descendant in Scorpio, is this why we're friends?! Haha!
dr. farr studied astrology for more than fifty years - he comments somewhere that he began reading astrological books when he was twelveThis is all great info, glad to hear so much about the 12th house.
Regarding house systems,
why is there more than one system anyway -
surely just choosing whichever one you like the best isn't the way to go here... is it?
Cusps:
Today (and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.
And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events,
the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)
But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!
In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house
-that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.
Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries
Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)
Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing (and other) delineative purposes.
Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)
I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out, I would say:
try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
To be clear then
Originally
a planet in Aries
was also
a planet in the house of Aries
and
a planet in Taurus
was also
a planet in the house of Taurus
and
a planet in Gemini
was also
a planet in the house of Gemini
and so on
that is the original house system now referred to as WHOLE SIGN HOUSES
where one whole sign = one whole house