what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Chinese philosophy also sees water as the element of intelligence and wisdom.

love-thinking said:

"I have been looking at legendary scientists or just those that are said to have a high IQ, this is what I have found.

3rd house mercury in gemini or aquarius.
eg thomas edison and nikola tesla has a third house mercury
thomas edison mercury in aquarius and nikola tesla mercury in gemini

Ung Yong Kim has mercury in aquarius

Mercury conjunct saturn
I know I was surprised too, but a lot of them seem to have this aspect.
eg Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Ung Yong Kim(said to have the highest IQ in the world-has a lot of achievements at an early age)
Isaac Newton has the square between mercury and saturn. Stephen Hawking has the trine.

This one I was really surprised because of the fact that capricorn is not always a sign associated with intelligence. But then again saturn is the co-ruler of aquarius and also this could mean that they have the ability to discipline their minds to actually learn, unlike gemini and aquarius energies that activate curiosity and progressive ideas.

Mercury in aspect to uranus-which is no surprise there.
eg Stephen Hawking, Ung Yong Kim, Benjamin Yantanyahu(said to have a high IQ, Albert Einstein had the inconjunction. Thomas Edison who did not have mercury in aspect to uranus, had mercury in aquarius.

There also seems to be 3rd house and 10th house activity. Which comes to no surprise(3rd house being the house of gemini and 10th house being the house of careers -and many of them are in 'smart' fields)

10th house mercury-albert einstein. Benjamin Netanyahu. (including him does not convey my thoughts and opinions about the israel-palestine issue-so I don't want to hear comments about that-this is not political)


Mercury also aspects the ascendent or the sun.

I have observed actors and actresses said to have a high IQ-they didn't have these markers-reason for that could be because they didn't enter scientific or revolutionary fields.

So to sum it off, I think whatever aspects the mercury influence the way you think or learn. However, unless you have 10th house mercury energies, or even prominant aspects from mercury to sun, ascendent, you will not be KNOWN for your intelligence or become a famous scientist/mathematician

For those of you that have mercury with saturn, uranus, and with whatever else planet, one of your goals in this life time here is to learn how to learn effectively in regards to that planet.

For example, mercury-uranus-learn to apply what you learned to the real world-and form ideas of how this knowledge can be used, be creative with it. Maybe convey and teach the content to others in a very eccentric ways with interesting imaginary stories related to the content.

Mercury-mars-application, hands on, how you actually apply the information that you learnt.

Mercury-neptune, make a story, us imagination to form a story that relates to the content/information
or roleplay
"

Merury-saturn-plan how you are going to study, repeatedly memorize the content that you must know, but also form connections to words that will help you remember things better. Also learn how to discriminate and undergo the process of elimination when you need to like in the case of multiple choice questions.

Click to expand...

Do you have the list of persons who you used in this study?

I'm not learned in statistics, but a more effective approach in finding those aspects that really stand out for intelligence would be to do what Frank did with his study - have a control group and see where certain aspects appear in higher frequency of those with supposedly higher intelligence vs. those supposedly don't.

love-thinking said:

Also I'd like you to watch this video and give me your input.

Click to expand...

What video?

As you can see, many of the greatest scientists had mercury in gemini, or aquarius, mercury with saturn/uranus, and a 3rd house emphasis so for me it only seemed intuitive that mercury in those signs would create intelligence.

But I've also seen an occurence of people with high iqs that don't do innovations in science, to have mercury in other signs. Also what was the basis of older astrologers claiming that certain signs produce more intelligence?

Click to expand...

It's going to be difficult to find the basis since lot of original astrological knowledge stretches far back into antiquity. The good news is that there is a concerted effort by some astrology researchers to make this knowledge accessible to both amateurs and professionals alike, so that we have a richer view on our origins and what they did as well as incorporating some of their techniques into practice. Support the trad movement.

love-thinking said:

Gifted people can comprehend the intricacies of emotions and can manipulate it.

Emotional intricacies can lead you to become cult leaders and being emotionally attuned can make amazing psychologists and influencers.

Click to expand...

This..
Emotional intelligent is very underrated and I can for sure say that none comes close as good as water Moons.
Reading your environment (I thought it was normal for all humans to do this) gives you great power to manipulate others. It's like a game especially because you can understand their emotions better than they do themselves.

Unlike Mercury which is good in many signs
(air, earth and Scorpio imo) Moon is good only in water signs. None other sign is close to a water Moon. I've seen fire, air and earth Moons in strong aspects to Neptune, in 8th or 12th H and it can not be compared to a water Moon.

The difference is that water Moons are in sync with their environment, they read people and they can respond accordingly to manipulate them. The best manipulators are people with water signs.. I have a full Libra cousin and she always complain I'm the only one not buying her sh*t and I can't be convinced. She asks me "how you always know when I'm saying the truth and when I'm not".
Another person I know, one of the best liars I've known was actually pissed off that he couldn't successfully lie to me when he could easily convince others. He has a bit of Scorpio in his chart, Libra and a Taurus Moon which is the 2nd best Moon after any watery Moon. I have to admit that he is a great liar, he puts emotion into his lies. He believes them himself and he feels his lies that's why he is so good. It's purely my intuition at that point.
I've seen others (most are Aquas and Aries mix in my mothers family) and they buy her bs like no one's bussiness. I'm wondering how they can not sense it. At that point they look so stupid in my eyes.

Don't underestimate emotional intelligence.. It is powerful and less people have it.
Do you see how it can help you in a job? Reading your customers/boss saying exactly what they need to hear the way they want it?

Other signs may surpress/ignore/control emotion because they fail to understand it. So in the surface they look good but inside there is smth missing.. Lots of air Moons ask "why am I not capable to feel?" or questions similar to that. I'm wondering if you realise how sad this question really is and how empty those people feel inside? Something is missing and that is emotions.

Being emotional doesn't mean getting out of control because of your emotions. It means you understand emotions so you can separate them from logic or combine those two in a successfull way.

Intuition is a gift.

Plutonian and Neptunian people can be the best manipulators if they choose to. Libra is a joke compared to them.

Also I'm wondering if we're talking here about actual intelligence (logic) which is something you can't really learn or about knowledge which can be aquired at school/internet/environment etc.
Undoubtly Gemini is the best at that.
However Aqua Mercury will always be for me the best. They are the genious types and most often than not they aren't good at school. Yet they are the ones getting successful at an early age by themselves.

Evolving717223 said:

Wow, I take it you must be really advanced in astrology then, how did you get so into it?

How exactly did you know that I had a weak mars though? I can see how you would guess all the other stuff right given your explanations of how you did, of course.

Well the way one communicates is only dependent on how they think, and our emotions (moon) heavily influences our thoughts and thinking (mercury), so the way I responded was definitely proof of that. My moon is conjunct my ASC though, so that might have been you just getting mixed signals there.

Click to expand...

I won't ever consider myself an advance in astrology unless I can make accurate predictions based on someone's natal chart, progression, transits and Solar Returns like a person did for me in the past for 3 years str8. He is the reason for my faith into astrology. I had already figured out that astrology is a great tool for analysing someone's personality and kind of his life themes but I was disappointed in predictions in forums.. they were too general, they would occur mostly by using logic instead of astrological methods.

I woyld get into chatrooms for a good 3-5 years just to guess people's Mercury and Venus.
I think I told you this on another thread. I've known lots of people via my mom's and aunt's work. I took advantage of it and my watery Moon which makes people open up to me so easily. I have more than 200 charts and I've categorised them.

Theory is good for a start in order to get the general idea.. Nothing can beat experience though. And I know people who check celebrities' chart. They are good to see when it comes to wealth and fame but that's it. You will never know their true personality and their personal life no matter what. I see people in other forums commenting about celebs love lifes and I can't believe it that they actually buy everything they see/hear about them. You can't even know if the way they speak is sincere let alone how truthful their words are. Many are on drugs and most often than not they know questions before hand and have chosen (or somebody else like their manager) what is the best thing to say.
Anyway the best is to check "real" people charts and if you don't know many of them then go to forums and ask. Most peoppe would happily help you by posting their chart and speak about whatever you want them to speak.

You have something in common with all the men with a Piscean Mars or Mars in hard aspect to Neptune. I won't tell though what it is 😈

I guessed you have a water Moon after what you said about water Moons but I should have thought of it myself that you don't have an Aries Moon.
ASC is always apparent when you don't know someone even in the way they speak. It's your "mask" of the mask shows how you really are behind that mask or not it's a different thing.

However your Mercury sign isn't something that I can decide. So I'll go the opposite way by eliminating the omes that I think it's impossible for you to have.

You don't seem to have air Mercury for sure, actually I also exclude water signs. and Virgo 100% from earth signs.
So it might be a Taurus or Capricorn both are stubborn, I give a small chance to a fiery one because it would make sense it it was in a hard aspect to Saturn.

Do you intend to post your chart?

BlackLioness87 said:

I agree with the above, but what happens when the chart promises something and it doesn't happen? How do you know just looking at a natal chart that a person didn't have a really tough transit during her early years (esp if the transit is made by "planets" overlooked by some astrologers). A psychological traumatized person can reach her maximum potential? Most don't?

Something I learned from sport astrology is that a soccer match can be correctly predicted using just the event chart in less than 75% of the cases. If you use one chart for each half time accuracy increases, if you see the match chart progressing minute by minute accuracy is so high that you'd probably earn lots of money predicting exact score. IMO astrology works the same in events and natal charts. You need to check "transits" to make sure the "promise" will materialize.

Click to expand...

This sport astrology thing sounds very interesting, so do your observations about the event chart and its increse in accuracy when using as many as possible. I'm completely unfamiliar with it (so I can't imagine how a soccer game and its results could be indicated through a chart) but I see your point.

As for the natal charts I don't have experience or at least none comes to my mind about a chart who doesn't gove the results it "promises".
I have experience though with the opposite. Charts who won't give more than what they promise despite of very favorable transits and progressions.

I'm a good example of this myself.
I've had it in the past but now it's actually more weird because it's in my 7th H. T.Pluto is in my 7th H and it has been conjuncting my NN for a year now I also have Saturn in my 7th H conjuncting my Neptune.. then it will conjunct my NN my Juno and Lilith in there too.
Nothing happened and nothing will happen relationship wise.
My friend though met her now husband as soon as T. Pluto entered her 7th H and she got married to him a few years late when when T. Saturn entered her 7th H.
The similarities is that none of us wanted a relationship let alone marriage.
The difference is she doesn't have a Cap 7th H with Uranus, Neptune and North Node in it like I do. I see this in many charts like mine.. It's just not meant to happen.

I have great examples that prove that if something is meant to happen it will no matter what, same goes for something that it isn't meant to happen, but this will be very long.

Transit will affect someone based on his/her chart, same transit affects each one in a different way, that by itself shows that the chart, the transits progressions, SR and any other chart will lead the native wherever it's supposed to go. That is why transits affect us so differently.

UnluckyGirl said:

This sport astrology thing sounds very interesting, so do your observations about the event chart and its increse in accuracy when using as many as possible. I'm completely unfamiliar with it (so I can't imagine how a soccer game and its results could be indicated through a chart) but I see your point.

As for the natal charts I don't have experience or at least none comes to my mind about a chart who doesn't gove the results it "promises".
I have experience though with the opposite. Charts who won't give more than what they promise despite of very favorable transits and progressions.

I'm a good example of this myself.
I've had it in the past but now it's actually more weird because it's in my 7th H. T.Pluto is in my 7th H and it has been conjuncting my NN for a year now I also have Saturn in my 7th H conjuncting my Neptune.. then it will conjunct my NN my Juno and Lilith in there too.
Nothing happened and nothing will happen relationship wise.
My friend though met her now husband as soon as T. Pluto entered her 7th H and she got married to him a few years late when when T. Saturn entered her 7th H.
The similarities is that none of us wanted a relationship let alone marriage.
The difference is she doesn't have a Cap 7th H with Uranus, Neptune and North Node in it like I do. I see this in many charts like mine.. It's just not meant to happen.

I have great examples that prove that if something is meant to happen it will no matter what, same goes for something that it isn't meant to happen, but this will be very long.

Transit will affect someone based on his/her chart, same transit affects each one in a different way, that by itself shows that the chart, the transits progressions, SR and any other chart will lead the native wherever it's supposed to go. That is why transits affect us so differently.

Click to expand...

Of course, transits affect us differently. In my case Chiron is the most elevated "element" in my Chart (conjunct my MC and in 10H), and its transits (conjunctions to ASC, DSC and Vertex) have been the most difficult so far. Chiron is approaching my NN so I'm expecting some difficulties happening to me in the next months.

What's your opinion of Colonel Sanders natal chart? (I need to take a look at his chart also). He become successful at a late age, and it would be interesting to know how his sudden and late success was "scripted" in his natal.

P.S. I wonder how have you been experiencing tr Pluto conjunct your Natal NN so far.

All,

Behave yourselves, or this thread will be closed. I've just had to severely gut it because of MANY posts, from several people, that broke the rules:

- Personal attacks. Several of you engaged in that. Keep in mind that if you're making a "you" statement, it's probably an attack. Any especially egregious offender will be dealt with separately, but this is a warning to all who participated.

- Responding to personal attacks. Basic rule: Do not feed the trolls! Thanks to the one who reported it instead of responding. The rest of you should do the same.

- Non-astrological posts in an astrological thread. This is the Natal Astrology board, not the Chat board. Stick to astrology.

Back on track,
Osamenor

Generally speaking a distinct lack of the Air element in a natal chart usually indicates a person who does not perform well in an academic sense or get very far with ordinary school/university. This is not to say those people are stupid however as they just have a different kind of intelligence.

I myself have Mercury retro conjunct Uranus in the 9th in Sag and I was perceived as a slow learner in school but the truth was that I couldn't stand school . It also took me a long time to get a handle on controlling my thought processes as I have a tendency to 'jump' ahead rather than plodding through a problem systematically. My biggest issue was that my thoughts were too fast and that it was only when I slowed down my thinking that certain problems (like mathematical ones) became much easier. I also fall into the habit of reading books not at the beginning but at random points/chapters to get what I want or something interesting.

Others have mentioned Mercury squaring Saturn as an indicator of lower intelligence but this isn't the case at all. It could certainly indicate delays or challenges with ordinary schooling (and even some people who were mutes for a period of time) but Saturn is about mastery and while it is horrible to young people, Saturn becomes a beneficial planet later in one's life.

I have read charts of many people lacking the Air element (Air signs) in their charts however and without exception all of them dropped out of school at the first opportunity or pursued non-academic lines of work. Having placements in the houses of relationship goes someway to mitigate this I think but the effect is much shallower than having personal planets in Air signs.

An older post where I wrote about Mercury-Uranus and Mercury-Saturn's effect on outward intelligence.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=922104&postcount=11

Amnesia said:

Generally speaking a distinct lack of the Air element in a natal chart usually indicates a person who does not perform well in an academic sense or get very far with ordinary school/university. This is not to say those people are stupid however as they just have a different kind of intelligence.

I myself have Mercury retro conjunct Uranus in the 9th in Sag and I was perceived as a slow learner in school but the truth was that I couldn't stand school . It also took me a long time to get a handle on controlling my thought processes as I have a tendency to 'jump' ahead rather than plodding through a problem systematically. My biggest issue was that my thoughts were too fast and that it was only when I slowed down my thinking that certain problems (like mathematical ones) became much easier. I also fall into the habit of reading books not at the beginning but at random points/chapters to get what I want or something interesting.



Others have mentioned Mercury squaring Saturn as an indicator of lower intelligence but this isn't the case at all. It could certainly indicate delays or challenges with ordinary schooling (and even some people who were mutes for a period of time) but Saturn is about mastery and while it is horrible to young people, Saturn becomes a beneficial planet later in one's life.

I have read charts of many people lacking the Air element (Air signs) in their charts however and without exception all of them dropped out of school at the first opportunity or pursued non-academic lines of work. Having placements in the houses of relationship goes someway to mitigate this I think but the effect is much shallower than having personal planets in Air signs.

Click to expand...

I used to believe that a lack of Air in the personal planets=a lack of intellect and academic ability, but there are two very notable exceptions in my life. I've heard that a lack of an element can mean that the native struggles in the areas of life associated with that element, or it could also mean that they overcompensate in those areas of life.

First person is my older male friend / mentor / father figure. Leo Sun and Mercury (conjunct) with Moon in Scorpio, Venus and Mars in Virgo. Didn't get to go to university during his earlier years due to financial difficulties, but he made it to university at the age of 38 and graduated in Art History with an Honors degree. Even when he did not achieve a formal post-secondary education, as a teenager he was already some very complex books like Marx's Communist Manifesto. I looked up his chart and he does not have a single planet in an air sign That, came as a bit of a surprise.

A few times he's actually told me that I lack intellect / the ability to think and the ability to puzzle things out. He's a very avid reader of literature and also enjoys science, including physics. I don't know his exact birth time so I can't rule out the possibility that he has personal planets in air houses or personal planets in aspect to outer planets (the trio) in air houses, but when it comes to deep intellectual thought I pale in comparison to him.



Another is my dad who's a Taurus Sun and Moon with Mercury in Aries, Venus in Taurus, and Mars in Virgo. He has no personal planets in air and I forgot the rest of his placements but he has 8 planets in feminine signs (my friend / mentor has 7). I don't know his time of birth so I don't know the houses his planets fall into, but his Mercury in Aries, which by the way is also without any aspects, seems to have taken him very far. He went to university at age 15 and graduated when he was 19 with a degree in chemistry. He was among the earliest batch of mainland Chinese students who went to Canada, back in 1988 that was not a small feat. He ended up getting an MBA and made it all the way to a PhD in physics. His dissertations became models for other students. Dick of a man, dick of a dad, but academically extremely gifted (not that I admire him for that).

Personally I have Aquarius moon with Venus and Mars in Gemini (1996, Cancer Sun+Mercury) but I suck at left brain logic and I actually don't like being mentally stimulated in the sense that I actually have to be analytical. I do ramble a lot and I have all of these ideas and ideals inside my head but I am a lot more sentimental than logical. Active mind, anything but logical / analytical / rational. Frustrated when someone makes a logically concentrated effort to argue with me because when I'm out of cards I just say "well man it's how I feel about things and I can't see another way." Actually suck at left brain stuff and for most of my academic life math has been a pain in the ***. Science, well, sometimes but not when there's math and too much memorization or formulas involved.

Took Chemistry in Grade 10, no interest whatsoever and knew I was going to fail, saved my own *** by sending an email to my chemistry teacher (well he was a nice guy actually) pretending to be my mom, asking him to give me a pass. And you know what? He actually ended up giving me a 60%, the bare minimum for a pass, I guess on account of my generally good attitude in class and sympathy towards me so yeah a mercy pass but a pass nonetheless. It's all history.

I have Mercury Sq. Saturn and for most of my life I've been called bright more often than not. In fact, most people would say it's not the issue of whether I'm smart or not, it's the issue of whether I see value in it and am willing to actually put effort into learning something. I do have trouble with some things more than others, but I don't obsess over what I'm not good at. I'd say this aspect, for me, shows up in the rigidity I cling to my beliefs. I can also be pessimistic and a real downer at times. It's not easy for me to really accept another point-of-view because as you said I "filter" it through my existing system of beliefs and values and see how it all fits into the mold. I also have Sun-Mercury conjunct, albeit a loose one, but I can feel it in the sense that "I am what I believe, that my actions and my beliefs must match each other to the greatest extent possible".

It also takes time for me to really accept something new or innovative. I may be relatively silent and not openly disagree, but it's not hard for someone who understands me to see that I'm not so keen on it. I also get a bit overwhelmed when someone's presenting some very big ideas to me and it's like they expect a response almost immediately. I also tend to be a little anal retentive, especially when I'm feeling tired, that's when everything someone says might become confusing to me and I get a bit frustrated.

Starting from Grade 11 I really began having trouble with the school system. I saw it as restricting and futile, that standardized tests and test scores don't reflect intelligence but just your ability to do what you're told and to conform to a system. Hatred of formal education continued well into my college years though eventually I just got on with it because my only goal was to graduate ASAP. I hated it when I had to express my ideas following lots of guidelines and criteria. One bummer was the word count for essays and also having to follow a specific structure and also stylistic requirements. As for the word count I mostly ignored it and was able to get away with it most of time, more often than not I wrote over the word limit.

conspiracy theorist said:

It's going to be difficult to find the basis since lot of original astrological knowledge stretches far back into antiquity. The good news is that there is a concerted effort by some astrology researchers to make this knowledge accessible to both amateurs and professionals alike, so that we have a richer view on our origins and what they did as well as incorporating some of their techniques into practice. Support the trad movement.

Click to expand...

So i suppose the topic bored me but I looked up the chart of another kid with a very high iq, I seem to also find quintiles with mercury, like with uranus as the study suggests but with this one kid I found it with mars.

Ainan Celeste Cawley-I checked his chart. There seems to be mercury and saturn again and uranus again.

I wish I could collect and see the chart of more than at least 30 high iq people, but I can't do a study yet, nor do I have advanced statistical knowledge to conduct one. I will in hopefully a year. I do think though, certain researchers such as the mensa/this site called capricorn research and gaquelen(astrologer-research) gives insight on research about certain traits of signs and planets.

And then I also refer back to vedic rishis like parashara/jaimani. And the video I wanted you to watch was this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJoTbYnvA8

What she says applies to me because: i lack street smart, but I do pretty well accademically and I have saturn in my 6th. i also spend a lot and i am not happy which is what she says here. She also emphasizes the third house in this and the study did indicate a higher prevalance of jupiter in the third.

Another reason I feel like these techniques are right/jaimani techniques are helpful is because when it comes to looks, parashara almost always able to analyze how some features of a person is going to be. I suppose with research, you need to be able to referr back to ancient texts and scholars/rishis/occultists but also be able to have some experience looking at other people's astrological research and/or have experience with a couple of charts to figure out a general pattern. Astrology will never be scientifically accurate nor can it be one hundred percent be proven but good astrologers will always exist.

These are the conclusions I have come to. It's not really one particular signature that correlates to a higher iq, it is usually a culmination of things and/or a strong signature sentence in astrology like: mercury quintile uranus
aka your mind is talented at forming ideas or jupiter in 3rd house, your mind aka the third house is blessed with the blessings, broad thinking ability and abstract thinking of jupiter.

I think the study also referred saturn being in gemini and if gemini stands for mind and saturn stands for methodical ability?

Capricorn research: https://astrologyresearch.co.uk/the-most-important-factor-in-the-choice-of-career/

this site help you understand the traits of certain signs and also the planets. For example, I underestimated the intelligence and gifts of saturn and neptune. But I realized, neptune gives an ability to escape aka dopamine(think alcohol-you know intelligent people binge drink more?) which also serve to aid memory (which may be why mercury does well in pisces but back in the day when we were out hunting and gathering, or even during the agricultural revolution having your head in the clouds did prove almost useless so I suppose that's why it is debilitated). Dopamine consolidates memory, and the mind wandering helps it connect to other pieces of information and carry out neurogenesis. However virgo and gemini can be present and do both of these things.

Saturn is also not dumb as it gives one the ability to methodically conduct thought experiments and come up with a framework through which they learn, research and study. And many scientists were found to be born under the sun sign cap and saturn on the cardinal houses(gaquelen study).

I also think intelligence is changeable up to 25-30 IQ points at least. And those are determined by nurture things and other factors that lead or not lead you to take on 'intellectual pursuits.' For example, trauma(8th house), love affairs, wasting time, life events all diminish the extra 25 points you would have had and I can tell you this through my own experience. Having your asc lord in fifth house for example can lead you to take on creative ('intelligence') pursuits. Yet afflicted asc lord in 12th house is a little different.

That's why moon in aquarius can lead to intelligence as the moon loves intellectual discussions, debates, discussion which all train the mind to pay attention and use important things in the learning environment.

So I agree it's very complicated. Some of the research does give an ahh ha moment like mercury quintile uranus but it is important that there is more to learn about this topic and the traits of planets and signs in general.

Also I do think what the ancients thought were smart probably was around 110 IQ, being well rounded and not deficient in anything related to competence. And a 110 IQ will blend in(which in our day and age isn't really anything special) with the rest of us. Which I think is important to take into account as well as the astrological signatures found and studied.

Whereas mercury in pisces can lead a sedentary lifestyle with their head in the clouds if they choose to in this day and age and now they have the environment and place where a mercury in pisces can come up with deep ideas and contribute to a certain extent to society.

Fact: I have mercury conjunct uranus, neptune and mars with mercury in aquarius and mars and neptune in cap, and mercury sextile pluto(unfortunately no saturn so as you can see, I am very scatter brained. Uranus in aquarius. I think my lifetime is to figure out what intelligence is and how to enhance it. Neuroscience is also one of my interests honestly.

Let me know what you think.

love-thinking said:

These are the conclusions I have come to. It's not really one particular signature that correlates to a higher iq, it is usually a culmination of things and/or a strong signature sentence in astrology like: mercury quintile uranus
aka your mind is talented at forming ideas or jupiter in 3rd house, your mind aka the third house is blessed with the blessings, broad thinking ability and abstract thinking of jupiter.

I think the study also referred saturn being in gemini and if gemini stands for mind and saturn stands for methodical ability?


Saturn is also not dumb as it gives one the ability to methodically conduct thought experiments and come up with a framework through which they learn, research and study. And many scientists were found to be born under the sun sign cap and saturn on the cardinal houses(gaquelen study).

I also think intelligence is changeable up to 25-30 IQ points at least. And those are determined by nurture things and other factors that lead or not lead you to take on 'intellectual pursuits.' For example, trauma(8th house), love affairs, wasting time, life events all diminish the extra 25 points you would have had and I can tell you this through my own experience. Having your asc lord in fifth house for example can lead you to take on creative ('intelligence') pursuits. Yet afflicted asc lord in 12th house is a little different.

That's why moon in aquarius can lead to intelligence as the moon loves intellectual discussions, debates, discussion which all train the mind to pay attention and use important things in the learning environment.

So I agree it's very complicated. Some of the research does give an ahh ha moment like mercury quintile uranus but it is important that there is more to learn about this topic and the traits of planets and signs in general.

Click to expand...

love-thinking, my Mercury in Cancer is 149 degrees away from my Uranus rx in Saggitarius, why can't that 149° aspect be almost biquintile?

Is there a chance for quincunxes and biquintiles to overlap, What if a person has Mercury 146°30' away from Uranus?

My Uranus retro is exactly conjunct my IC, and it's technically placed in 3H along with Saturn retro, My IQ score is 134 from what I remember.

Aspects to my Mercury in Cancer 11H:
- Square Jupiter in Aries 8H
- Trine Moon in Scorpio 2H
- Quincunx Uranus rx in Sagittarius 3H

What's your opinion? I'm more interested in your take on Uranus quincunx Mercury vs Uranus biquintile Mercury. Don't worry about my other Mercury placements.

Thanks in advance.

love-thinking said:

Your mercury is in gemini? I'm talking about lower iq. Which in my humble opinion and knowledge is being able to reason properly, think abstractly, connect the dots, and a decent memory.

Quintiles don't count. You're not dumb. Neptune can create spaciness but can also cause someone to think abstractly. But Yes I do think it might create a little slowness.

Click to expand...

Quintiles DO count, but quintiles of Mercury can make that person more intellegent, even if with Neptune.

Gemini888 said:

Define low intelligence.


Forgive me if I sound offended, but as someone who has had to live with the "low intelligence" label for years, there is no such thing as stupidity, only different kind of intelligence. That said, I seem to notice that the people who are labeled "low intelligence" take more time to think, which isn't always a bad thing. Thinking slowly means more refined thought.


I can think of a couple of placements for that:

• Mercury retrograde
• Mercury square Saturn
• Mercury in signs like Taurus or Capricorn
• Mercury forming an aspect to Neptune (causing seemingly spacy thought. In my case Neptune quintile Mercury)

I have my chart here for reference.

Click to expand...

I have Mercury square Saturn, in Capricorn, and octile Neptune, but I'm a good student, and even go to a gifted class, too (although I had oxygen deprivation at birth, and I'm labeled as stupid, so I'm similar to Einstein a little bit). I think my Gemini rising halts the bad things from happening (it increases my intellegence from the disabled side to the above average side), although my thinking isn't too fast (or maybe sometimes I'm too fast to handle).

Intelligence relies on ego.
Capability is capability.

Intellect speaks for it's self without the interaction of "I".

Am I intelligent? You tell me...
Yes? ok but I think you are just being kind.
No? That's cool there are a lot of people I also judge too.


Mercury in Leo 6th house conjunct South Node.
Square Mars.
Square Moon.
Square Pluto.
Quincunx Uranus.
Conjunct Ceres.
Conjunct 7th house cusp.
Conjunct Orcus.
Trine Midheaven in Sagittarius.

Sun conjunct Jupiter in Cancer 6th opposite Saturn in Capricorn 12th.
Moon in Taurus trine Uranus in Capricorn.
Trine Saturn.
Trine Neptune.
Mars in Taurus in first house trine Uranus in Capricorn.

I am an INTJ. INTJ although classified as being smart are prone to just arguing for arguments sake.



I don't really tend to think about intelligence anymore in truth, I tend to try and work with people.
It's not that I don't sometimes have an off moment and think oh man I am truly dumb or someone else....
There is just much more to a person than the 2 dimensional filtering of the prefrontal cortex and the judgement it has on others. An animalistic side to the so - called intellectual who is more so mentally ill suffering from narcissism.

Anyway the only person I know with a Leo Merc who was amazing is the smartest woman on Earth. I am male so can't compete in that title.






I find this rather beautiful.
Because it is like the ego, when you realize you can't, you accept.
It takes intelligence to actually register your own limits.

A Saturnian concept, the limits of your reality.

I don't mind provocative questions. For me, I don't believe in stupid, just stubborn.
For me, a truly stupid person has too much ego, is too rigid, and is either too open minded, or too closeminded. In the movie, Forest Gump, Forest is supposed 'stupid,' but he makes the best of what he has (his charisma, kindness, leadership qualities, stability), and so he is smart in some ways.

A stupid person will just sit there and blame everyone else, self destruct, and then not even try to improve their life.
The astrology? There is none. Stupid is partly a choice. This is just my two cents, though. In my opinion, there is no 'precise' non-astrological, or astrological, answer, to this question.

Humanitarian said:

I have Mercury square Saturn, in Capricorn, and octile Neptune, but I'm a good student, and even go to a gifted class, too (although I had oxygen deprivation at birth, and I'm labeled as stupid, so I'm similar to Einstein a little bit). I think my Gemini rising halts the bad things from happening (it increases my intellegence from the disabled side to the above average side), although my thinking isn't too fast (or maybe sometimes I'm too fast to handle).

Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that I have Mercury OOB at 25°28'S, and I think the out-of-bounds Mercury actually helped me to think either very fast or slowly, and can balance the speed of my thoughts (even though I have ADHD, which contributes to having many streams of thought at the same time).