Actually, I was referring to Kaiousei no Senshi 03:16 AM 03-28-2013
The difference between detriment and fall, to put it plainly, is that detriment is worse for the planet involved.
Oh okay sorry xx
Actually, I was referring to Kaiousei no Senshi 03:16 AM 03-28-2013
The difference between detriment and fall, to put it plainly, is that detriment is worse for the planet involved.
Can I get a source on that?
dranzer93 said:Yes. Just to clarify that ruler is in full harmony, where as fall is in full dissonance. the 2 in the middle are exaltation and detriment. Exaltation being the positive middle and detriment being the negative middle.
thats why the order of them are always said in ''Ruled, Exaltation, Detriment, Fall''
Although I can understand why planets in the detriment and esp. fallen positions can be considered "corrupted," I still don't think that's the end of the story. I mean, there's house placements to consider and then there's aspects that could lessen the negative effects. I think any planet in any placement can get corrupted, just as the possibility for any planet in any placement to be beneficial. Yes, overall a planet in detriment or fall is of lesser "status" but really, what is the status when it comes seeing how something works (or doesn't work)? Does Scorpio Moon have the monopoly on being intensive and having dark emotions? I've gone through that phase and I'm a Pisces Moon. Does Capricorn Mars have the last word on ambitions and drive? I've checked the long list of famous Taurus Mars and there are many more Taurus Mars who have achieved more (money, status, fame, etc.) than Cap Mars. I just think that planetary position is NOT the really all of the story but rather, just the first layer.
I don't have any fallen planets but I do have 1 planet in detriment- Taurus Mars. Although in detriment status, my Mars is dignified in the 8th house and it is strengthened by trine Jupiter, trine Saturn, and sextile Moon (all benefics). Because my Saturn is exalted in Libra (that's why my Saturn acts as a benefic and not malefic), but it does major damage control on my Mars and as a result, self-discipline comes naturally for me.
When I was a small child, my parents thought that I have strong drive and I was always a wild ball of energy (very Aries Mars-like) but I didn't know where to place my energies. I knew how to express my energies, I just had to be instructed on where to address it and how much of it was appropriate (proportion control). But I've gotten older, did some growing up, I've learned to spread out my energy to various projects and virtually anyone that comes across me sees me as a hard working, action oriented go-getter. I have Cap Mars friends who don't know what the heck they're doing in life and they're in their 40s and 50s and I'm much younger than them but I know what I'm doing and where I want to go. I cannot accept that just because I have Taurus Mars that I'm lazy and boring and all into food and comforts when in reality, I'm energetic, I'm self-disciplined, I am reliable, and I am able to crush my opponents by miles ahead without feeling any pain. I can be quite ruthless which can even shock Cap Mars who is famously known to be cold, calculating, and very strategic. Does Cap Mars have the stronghold on those traits? I mean, Cap Mars is exalted and I admire their status because they're of the earth element and brilliant (in general) but am I that way? Do I even strive to be that way? NO. My energy actually can overwhelm others if I want it to, and I do that on a more personal scale. I've met other Taurus Mars people who aren't so lazy and tame as we're suppose to be since we're deemed as "corrupted."
I just think that the overall picture needs to be considered.
I've checked the long list of famous Taurus Mars and there are many more Taurus Mars who have achieved more (money, status, fame, etc.) than Cap Mars. I just think that planetary position is NOT really all or most of the story but rather, just the first layer.
Although I can understand why planets in the detriment and esp. fallen positions can be considered "corrupted," I still don't think that's the end of the story. I mean, there's house placements to consider and then there's aspects that could lessen the negative effects.
I think any planet in any placement can get corrupted, just as the possibility for any planet in any placement to be beneficial.
Yes, overall a planet in detriment or fall is of lesser "status" but really, what is the status when it comes seeing how something works (or doesn't work) in reality?
I have come to consider Fall a more difficult situation (regarding planetary expression and its quality) than detriment (reverse of Lily's outlook, quoted above)
Yes, while I do enjoy reading Lily, I believe he's off base with his ideas about exaltation and fall.
wca said:no. fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose and function of aspects. aspects only measure relative ease (or dis-ease) of expression between two functioning bodies. conjunction = joining. opposition = opposing. trine = free-flowing, for good or ill. square = tension, disconnect, working at cross purposes. sextile = flowing with some minimal degree of effort or discomfort.
may28gemini said:I didn't realize that this discussion was solely based upon what's been known and accepted about detriment and fallen positions. I brought up my points because what is structure if it were not in practice to see for itself?
AHEM! Bonification/Maltreatment by engagement would like to say hello to you, sir!
opinions are fine, but if we're going to veer from authority on the subject we should probably have reasons to support? if for no other reason than to continue the dialogue and learn from each other.
what evidence do you have in your personal (or otherwise) practice to take an opposing stance from Lilly and other medieval authorities? open to your input.
I dislike it when dominating voices are only taken into consideration and independent voices are pressured to be silenced or pushed back because they don't see nor follow what's often been previously been accepted.
It would be more beneficial if we were all coming from the same place to have a discussion on what our practice has shown us and how everyone can improve from those observations. Otherwise, what one tradition says is causing something and what another says is always going to get in the way of anyone learning anything.
There are some previous members that I liked that got banned because what they expressed is a little too "different." I find all of that to be disappointing and wrong. Probably that's why I always express what I want to. I just think more ought to be brave and assert themselves more often, that's all.
Well, I've seen some not holding consensus and being unorthodox in their manner of expressing it but I don't think that's just cause for being banned. I like unorthodox people. I like like naysayers. Those are the ones who keeps everyone on their toes and in check. They're mavericks and not held by conventions so they will often bring up points that are often overlooked but maybe, they're blunt and say things that aren't packaged so well. I don't think that's just for banning.