Why is Mercury exalted in Virgo- not in Gemini?

When i think of Mercury, being so close to the Sun, orbiting fastest, going retrograde off and on so often, being hot and cold 50/50, ruling communication, wit, humor, social interactions- but also sales and all types of marketing and pr and so forth, i always got the feeling that mercury was the 'court jester' if you will- if you see the sun as the king- the one that is the right hand of the king- mingles with all the others - connects people by of course communication etc etc- it feels off when the most anal of all signs virgo is where he gets exalted- surely the qualities of mercury are better expressed when he is in gemini- the sign that deals more with communication between people- even the symbol the twins shows that- the symbol of virgo is the maiden- not only do i see the qualities of mercury better in gemini- i feel that virgo does not have the qualities that mercury stands out in- the best qualites of mercury are not detailed precise work and dedication- virgo is the original 6 house- the house of everyday general (sometimes boring) work, the house of disease and not only do i think mercury is too quick to even like being in virgo so much- and he likes to mix it up and switch it up to never get bored and he always craves excitement and lots of variation as well- something virgo is not exactly known for- if i had to assign any planet for that matter to be exalted in virgo- it would surely be saturn- the planet that loves to perform everyday routine work and work hard and work so hard it works out all the enemies there- and the planet that always forces us to look at our health and punishes us when we are not looking after ourselves- a saturn in virgo would do that to perfection!


personally i have mercury in capricorn, in the second house, so also very earthy, i dont really know how much of my mercurialism comes from my cappie mercury- or my gemini moon.i personally would assume mercury do better in an air sign than an earth sign- isnt air much more typical of mercury than earth? i feel like the whole premise of mercury is more mental (air) not per se grounded (earth)

what do you think?

Mercury is domiciled in Gemini. To my way of thinking, a domicile is stronger than an exaltation, but others might disagree.

Are you familiar with the planet-sign rulerships? Most modern astrologers, anyway, would also say that Mercury rules Virgo. Otherwise Virgo wouldn't have a planetary ruler.

Note that Virgo is an earth sign, Gemini is an air sign. Earth is practical, material. Air is mental. Regardless, people with a strong Mercury tend to appear comparatively youthful, as Mercury rules this stage of life.

Note that Mercury also rules the hands, so we associate Virgo with practical hands-on applications.

Mercury also rules liars and thieves. Esoterically, Mercury (aka Hermes) is the psychopomp, or conductor or souls.

I'd be cautious on matching signs and houses by-the-numbers. They seldom mean the same thing except in medical astrology.

My two adult children are both Virgo suns, with my daughter's Mercury also in Virgo. She is an elementary school teacher on the international teaching circuit. My son is an architectural designer. In his case, his work is very hands-on.

Knowing these two as I do, I just cringe at those deprecating Virgo stereotypes. They're neither fair nor true.

Mercury in a fixed sign isn't so variety-oriented. Cf. Mercury in Taurus, for example.

I have Mercury retrograde in Aquarius conjunct Venus. I think it's a great placement.

The Sun and Mercury can rejoice with their signs only if Mercury is in Virgo.

waybread said:

Mercury is domiciled in Gemini. To my way of thinking, a domicile is stronger than an exaltation, but others might disagree.

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I agree that rulership is stronger that exaltation.

However, as I understand it, Mercury is both domiciled as well as exalted in Virgo....

IleneK said:

I agree that rulership is stronger that exaltation.

However, as I understand it, Mercury is both domiciled as well as exalted in Virgo....

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That is certainly the way it is understood in traditional astrology. Mercury is therefore unique to have exaltation in its domicile. So much for it getting well with all stars.

petosiris said:

That is certainly the way it is understood in traditional astrology. Mercury is therefore unique to have exaltation in its domicile. So much for it getting well with all stars.

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i believe saturn is also domicile and exalted in aquarius

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn and the traditional ruler of Aquarius. Saturn is exalted in Libra. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

waybread said:

Mercury is domiciled in Gemini. To my way of thinking, a domicile is stronger than an exaltation, but others might disagree.

Are you familiar with the planet-sign rulerships? Most modern astrologers, anyway, would also say that Mercury rules Virgo. Otherwise Virgo wouldn't have a planetary ruler.

Note that Virgo is an earth sign, Gemini is an air sign. Earth is practical, material. Air is mental. Regardless, people with a strong Mercury tend to appear comparatively youthful, as Mercury rules this stage of life.

Note that Mercury also rules the hands, so we associate Virgo with practical hands-on applications.

Mercury also rules liars and thieves. Esoterically, Mercury (aka Hermes) is the psychopomp, or conductor or souls.

I'd be cautious on matching signs and houses by-the-numbers. They seldom mean the same thing except in medical astrology.

My two adult children are both Virgo suns, with my daughter's Mercury also in Virgo. She is an elementary school teacher on the international teaching circuit. My son is an architectural designer. In his case, his work is very hands-on.

Knowing these two as I do, I just cringe at those deprecating Virgo stereotypes. They're neither fair nor true.

Mercury in a fixed sign isn't so variety-oriented. Cf. Mercury in Taurus, for example.

I have Mercury retrograde in Aquarius conjunct Venus. I think it's a great placement.

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i know about the planet-sign rulerships- thats why i am going straight to the question why is it virgo and not gemini (both ruled by mercury) and not involving any other signs in the question- the point of my question is precisely that- mercury rules both virgo and gemini- but why is he EXALTED in virgo instead of the sign that truly lets his best qualities shine- which in my opinion is gemini

surely the communicative, witty and quick fast social-butterfly-ish skills- aspects which gemini embodies are where mercury shines instead of the virgo-esque diligent detailed hands-on subordinate work-work in which criticism takes on a life of its own

matching signs and houses by numbers is not something only for medical astrology, its a very important aspect of understanding how any chart works- every sign rules a house- and they do that because they are the original lords of those houses- they are very much connected to each other and always have meaning- mercury is the original lord of the 6th house- of virgo- the qualities of the 6th house are always connected to virgo and therefore always connected to mercury- this is why people for example have a 6th house sun in for example leo (for a pisces ascendant) yes the sun is in leo- a very outgoing-shine-the-light-on-me-creative-fun etc etc sign- but you cannot deny the undertone of virgo (6th house) always being there- because the sun is placed in that house- the sign may change but the energy of that house is still very much connected to virgo- and thats the same for every planet- house placement is very important and must always be taken into account

waybread said:

My two adult children are both Virgo suns, with my daughter's Mercury also in Virgo. She is an elementary school teacher on the international teaching circuit. My son is an architectural designer. In his case, his work is very hands-on.

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yes but what are their ascendants- moon signs? the sun placement alone doesnt really say much- its actually less important to me than the moon and ascendant signs- also i believe the sun sign is more significant for men than woman-

im not talking about specific placements of planets in houses in natal charts

in my opinion mercury would be logically more exalted in gemini than in virgo- that doesnt mean virgo is a bad sign or doesnt have good qualities- it just means that for mercury- the qualities of gemini are emphasized and used in a more exalted way-just like i believe, as i stated in my example, that saturn's qualities would be more exalted in virgo than in libra- that doesnt mean libra is a bad sign- it just means virgo would be better for saturn to bring the best to the table

The domiciles and exaltations are really ancient. You have to look there, vs. to what we think about the signs in modern astrology today.

I hope you can step away from tired old stereotypes of Virgo. I know sun-Virgos who are intelligent and witty. I have Virgo rising, and I think it's a fine sign.

There is no necessary connection between Virgo and the 6th house. This sign-house correlation by-the-numbers is kind of a fiction perpetrated by some modern astrologers. See Deborah Houlding's book, Houses: Temples of the Sky. I hope you can stop defining Mercury in terms of the more positive traits of Gemini. Mercury occurs in all of the signs and houses, and is correspondingly modified by them.

Some sign-house correspondences work well, like Sagittarius and the 9th house. Others are really bad match-ups. Leo is a barren sign, yet it is the 5th sign and thus supposedly relates to children in a by-the-numbers interpretation. Aries is not a good match with the first house if you happen to have some other sign rising.

Mercury rules the hands, which includes writing.

The exaltations historically preceded the domiciles. Further, they originally went by degrees, not by entire signs. https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Exaltation_(astrology).html

Virgo is the largest constellation on the ecliptic, and was historically associated with powerful ancient goddesses like the grain goddess Ceres (Demeter), as well as the Virgin Mary. In ancient Mesopotamia, Virgo had a strong connection to agriculture. (See Gavin White, Babylonian Star Lore.) The prototype of astrological Mercury was a Sumerian planetary goddess named Nidaba (Nisaba) who invented record-keeping (a Mercurial function today) for the city-state's grain stores, and probably astrology. (Mercury is the traditional ruler of astrology.) https://www.ancient.eu/Nisaba/ Nisaba was the patron goddess of scribes.

Nisaba lost status in Babylon, as did many of the older goddesses. (See Tykva Frymer-Kensky, In The Wake of Goddesses.) She was eventually relegated to the status of consort to the scribe god Nabu, who morphed into Hermes and Mercury in Greece and Rome, respectively.

So the affiliation of the planet Mercury with writing, record-keeping and accounting long predates the idea of Mercury as a witty conversationalist. Don't forget that Mercury also rules thieves and liars.

Januarystorm said:

yes but what are their ascendants- moon signs? the sun placement alone doesnt really say much- its actually less important to me than the moon and ascendant signs- also i believe the sun sign is more significant for men than woman-

im not talking about specific placements of planets in houses in natal charts

in my opinion mercury would be logically more exalted in gemini than in virgo- that doesnt mean virgo is a bad sign or doesnt have good qualities- it just means that for mercury- the qualities of gemini are emphasized and used in a more exalted way-just like i believe, as i stated in my example, that saturn's qualities would be more exalted in virgo than in libra- that doesnt mean libra is a bad sign- it just means virgo would be better for saturn to bring the best to the table

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Maybe you are hung up on the word "exaltation"? Astrologically today, an exaltation is important, but not so important as a domicile. How do you distinguish between these two terms? See:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig3.html

I think it's important, too, to move beyond modern ideas of affinity, and to think simply about planetary strength. The exaltations were supposedly places where the exalted planets were simply more effective.

I might also note the geometric relationship between exaltations and domiciles, normally in a sextile or trine relationship. Accepting the historical evidence that exaltations pre-dated domiciles, we get:

sun: rules Leo, exalted in Aries. (trine)
moon: rules Cancer, exalted in Taurus (sextile)
Mercury: rules Gemini, exalted in Virgo (square)
Venus: rules Taurus and Libra, exalted in Pisces (sextile with Taurus.
Mars: rules Aries and Scorpio, exalted in Capricorn (sextile with Scorpio)
Jupiter: rules Sagittarius and Pisces, exalted in Cancer (trine to Pisces)
Saturn: rules Capricorn and Aquarius, exalted in Libra (trine to Aquarius)

Of course one has to look at more than the sun-sign. Big duh-uh there. Would you like a list of illustrious people with Virgo stellia in their charts?

waybread said:

Maybe you are hung up on the word "exaltation"? Astrologically today, an exaltation is important, but not so important as a domicile. How do you distinguish between these two terms? See:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig3.html

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i have nothing against virgos or virgo qualities whatsoever i think you are missing the point but i already explained that

anyways after weeks of pondering this i have come to the conlcusion that the only reason mercury is exalted in virgo and not gemini- is that it is less damaged in sagittarius than in pisces- and thats that, i really dont think that the strengths of mercury come out better when is in virgo- i just think the weaknesses of mercury are less obvious in sag than in pisces

and also- quite interesting the thing you posted about all the planets in their domicile and exaltation- where they usually all trine or sextile their own sign whilst in exaltation EXCEPT MERCURY- who squares its own sign oh well
very interesting indeed to hear all about these interpretations about the houses and rulerships

i dont think that modern astrology per se is better or exceeds traditional astrology- both are equally valid and everyone can interpret and use that information as they wish- it doesnt mean one is more true it just means that it just resonates more with you and one less- i prefer connecting the houses with the signs as i believe it to be accurate personally for me

Mercury is a planet that loves diversity and is dazzling in its ability to quickly put all the pieces together. I am not sure I can see your analogy of it being the court jester because I do not see it as a buffoon... not silly or ridiculous at all. It is however fast and maybe in that way it can dance itself around all the others.

The other major quality of mercury is its concern specifically with the self and not so much with the objective concerns of society at large, which is more the concern of the outer planets. It simply doesn't have time for them. That is why, it has been so effectively aligned with the two mutable signs on the summer half of the zodiac (aries to virgo) and not so much with the winter signs (libra to pisces).

This is why it gets bogged down in Sagittarius and Pisces. It really cant be its dazzling self all the while having to think about global concerns and the world at large. Once it pulls back in order to be objective, like it needs to be in Sagittarius or Pisces, it has to make sacrifices and basically gets too heavy to be effective.

But, in virgo, mercury is rather happy because it is mutable and self oriented, what it loves the best. The only thing more aligned with mercury is being rational (or an air sign) which is why it is at home in Gemini

HarmonE said:

Mercury is a planet that loves diversity and is dazzling in its ability to quickly put all the pieces together. I am not sure I can see your analogy of it being the court jester because I do not see it as a buffoon... not silly or ridiculous at all. It is however fast and maybe in that way it can dance itself around all the others.

The other major quality of mercury is its concern specifically with the self and not so much with the objective concerns of society at large, which is more the concern of the outer planets. It simply doesn't have time for them. That is why, it has been so effectively aligned with the two mutable signs on the summer half of the zodiac (aries to virgo) and not so much with the winter signs (libra to pisces).

This is why it gets bogged down in Sagittarius and Pisces. It really cant be its dazzling self all the while having to think about global concerns and the world at large. Once it pulls back in order to be objective, like it needs to be in Sagittarius or Pisces, it has to make sacrifices and basically gets too heavy to be effective.

But, in virgo, mercury is rather happy because it is mutable and self oriented, what it loves the best. The only thing more aligned with mercury is being rational (or an air sign) which is why it is at home in Gemini

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1. i think your point of mercury being very concerned with itself on a micro-level- makes a very valid point for virgo indeed, had not thought about that- thats why mercury gets so lost in pisces- theres nothing to hold on to (mercury also rules hands as we all know and skills of hand) and with pisces its all water and you cant hold on to water, at least not with your hands

2. when i said court jester- i didnt mean the fool that everyone sees as a joke- i meant the handsome like quick-talking social slick fast communicative right-hand of the king- that makes him laugh and thereby always gets free passes and does whatever he wants and uses his communicative and charming witty qualities for his own advantage- at the same time leaving people laughing and smiling- maybe court jester wasnt the right way to put it but you get what. mean

3. i understand more now why mercury and virgo are so connected and how the virgo qualites are mercurial lots to say the least- the thing you said about the focus on himself really made sense to me had not even considered that and it really made me think of mercury in a whole different way- now taking in those virgo qualities

but i remain convinced- still the more radiant qualities of mercury are expressed in a more exalted way in gemini...

JS, it's not a question of whether you appreciate my explanations or not. I didn't think you had anything against Virgo. People who study the history of astrology have written about the origins of the exaltations and domiciles, which go back over 2000 years. If you're interested, I can give you some references.

waybread said:

JS, it's not a question of whether you appreciate my explanations or not. I didn't think you had anything against Virgo. People who study the history of astrology have written about the origins of the exaltations and domiciles, which go back over 2000 years. If you're interested, I can give you some references.

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yes please do i would love to read up on the origins of where this came from

if it could be online available sources that could be great although if you have a book you say is the best book ever and i have to read it- i may have to buy it i have been searching from some intermediate level astrology-books..i can only find two types of astrolgy-books...one is called this is the sun this is venus this is a sign that is a house-and the other is like take the progressed midpoint antiscia of the second house from the 5th lords exaltation point whilst it will make a novile hexagon contraparallel aspect below the celestial equator...


so its like or you are learning what 1+1 is or you are literally astrological einstein

i need something in the middle

waybread said:

I think it's important, too, to move beyond modern ideas of affinity, and to think simply about planetary strength. The exaltations were supposedly places where the exalted planets were simply more effective.

I might also note the geometric relationship between exaltations and domiciles, normally in a sextile or trine relationship. Accepting the historical evidence that exaltations pre-dated domiciles, we get:

sun: rules Leo, exalted in Aries. (trine)
moon: rules Cancer, exalted in Taurus (sextile)
Mercury: rules Gemini, exalted in Virgo (square)
Venus: rules Taurus and Libra, exalted in Pisces (sextile with Taurus.
Mars: rules Aries and Scorpio, exalted in Capricorn (sextile with Scorpio)
Jupiter: rules Sagittarius and Pisces, exalted in Cancer (trine to Pisces)
Saturn: rules Capricorn and Aquarius, exalted in Libra (trine to Aquarius)

Of course one has to look at more than the sun-sign. Big duh-uh there. Would you like a list of illustrious people with Virgo stellia in their charts?

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There are so many options for the origins of the exaltations:
1. Fagan heliacal risings explanations
2. Thrasyllus and Porphyry sextile and trine scheme
3. Ptolemaic scheme
4. Egyptian Paranatellonta by Joanne Conman
5. Academia which relates the concept to the ''secret houses'' of the Babylonians
6. A mix of the above - like 2 and 3 (Hellenistic) or 1 and 5 (Babylonian). I personally think it is predominating 2 with some considerations of 3.

Now if you think about the concept, it is completely irrelevant today, unless you personally believe 2 is enough of a distinction to make. I mean Ptolemy's logic is unapplicable to the equator and south, what do the Babylonian or Egyptian considerations have to do with your astrology, especially the latter, as paranatellonta of one place is completely irrelevant in another place. I personally do not use the exaltation - depression scheme, although I think Saturn, Moon and Jupiter depressions and Sun, Moon, Venus and Jupiter exaltations make sense on their own by affinity.

My personal experience knowing 2 people with Mercury in Virgo and 2 others with Mercury in Gemini is that the Virgo placement gives a kind of precision in how they express themselves, so Virgo mercury manner of speaking seems convincing, and somehow sincere, aesthetically attractive, and intelligent at the same time. With Mercury in Gemini placements the person is driven to communicate a lot and make lots of social contacts (these two are also Gemini suns) but it feels like they hurry to speak, hurry to say something and should really catch a breath, or they just want to speak for the sake of speaking - it doesn't have that same refined and detailed quality of a Virgo Mercury.

actio said:

My personal experience knowing 2 people with Mercury in Virgo and 2 others with Mercury in Gemini is that the Virgo placement gives a kind of precision in how they express themselves, so Virgo mercury manner of speaking seems convincing, and somehow sincere, aesthetically attractive, and intelligent at the same time. With Mercury in Gemini placements the person is driven to communicate a lot and make lots of social contacts (these two are also Gemini suns) but it feels like they hurry to speak, hurry to say something and should really catch a breath, or they just want to speak for the sake of speaking - it doesn't have that same refined and detailed quality of a Virgo Mercury.

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you know now that i read your answer- it suddenly clicked

of course mercury would be exalted in virgo not in gemini- virgo is more- and i dont mean this in a bad way whatsoever- cunning/trying to get the best benefit for themselves- and that is when those mercurial qualities can shine- because it is a very selfish planet- and virgo implements them in a way that is quite self-serving and always out to get the better deal- in an intelligent resourceful way- it uses that communication and detailed precision and skills to accomplish something- get that deal sign that contract make that agreement etc etc

whereas gemini is literally communicating for the sake of communicating- thats the whole goal of gemini- it needs to receive and offer information as it needs air- it uses the mercurial qualities not to achieve something- but because the actual doing of those things (talking, writing, social skills etc etc) IS what they want- they are not using the mercurial qualities to get that deal- its about the actual process of getting the deal not the end result- doing the thing is more important than the thing itself ahaaa

i get it nowwwwww--- omg yes this has been a breakthrough for me i totally get it now