How do we solve a problem like Luna?

It's quite probable that at some point in the not too distant future a human being is going to be born on the moon. Let's assume it's a girl and call her Luna. What sort of an astrological birth-chart could we construct for her? Will Earth, as the home planet, take over rulership of the 4th house? Or will lunacentric astrology drive us all crazy?

I have been in discussions like this with other astrologers. There are presently no guidelines and absolutely no consensus that I am aware of to address such an eventuality.

How about if someone is born on a Spaceship on the way to the moon or another planet? An even worse problem! I do know that latitude and longitude lines and coordinates have been established for many of the planets in our solar system. So once someone is born on the Moon, Mars, etc. we can establish a date and time of birth along with latitude and longitude and probably a time zone. But the time zone issue itself will be a very serious problem because all other bodies in our solar system have days / months / years of varying lengths. Can we successfully apply the same time zone system as employed on Earth to the other planets?

One possible solution might be to employ Vedic Astrology, so that we are completely free of using Earth's Sun as the basis of our Chart Casting and then create a holographic latitude / longitude system that will encompass our entire solar system. Now we would have an astrology based on a concept that our ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM is the new equivalent of the Earth. Now you can go anywhere in our solar system, determine the holographic latitude and longitude and time zone and calculate the Birth Chart of our newborn "Solar System Native".

I wonder how many SPS's (Solar System Positioning Satellites) we would have to build and place in orbit along the outer perimeter of our solar system to create the holographic location grid system?

Born on a spaceship...! Wow, I hadn't thought of that! I like the idea of a holographic astrological system representing the entire solar system - this would just about cover all possibilities, I guess.

Although if our space crew were on a journey to the nearest inhabitable exoplanet, we'd presumably need a system covering the entire milky way galaxy ...

Once we are talking exoplanets we will definitely have to use a different system. What if the exoplanet is found in a solar system with only five planets? Or what if we find a solar system with 32 planets?

Depending on where this exoplanet is found, it could be in a "Micro-Universe" so far removed from our own that there is no meaningful basis for comparison.

While I can easily imagine the Archtypes of Astrology to be a constant, the variables in different solar systems and Galaxies would out of necessity define the Astrology of each World.

That would be the ultimate challenge/test for astrology!

For someone born on Mars, besides having Martian astrological houses, the chart will not show Mars, but will have the Earth as a new planet. Quite exciting to study its influence in such charts!

Or we could already study event charts for the events that already took place on other cosmic bodies, such as the arrival of terrestrial space ships and probes.

Who could help me to erect a "lunar chart" for the first man on the Moon event? In theory that would be possible. We have the lunar coordinates, the exact time [Earth time, which will have to be translated into Moon time], that's all it takes.

Lunar Landing Time [as measured on Earth]: 4:17:40 p.m. EDT, July 20, 1969 [Edit = 8:17:40 pm GMT]
Landing Site Coordinates: 0.67408°N, 23.47297°E

However what we lack is the time on the Moon, the lunar time.

I know that a lunar day lasts 29 terrestrial days. Obviously on that famous moment when Armstrong set foot on the Moon, it was "day" meaning that the Sun was visible from the landing site, as we see shadows in the landing photos, about 30 degrees from the horizontal. Could anyone tell if it was "lunar morning" or "lunar afternoon" on that day? Is there any way I could find out a more accurate "lunar time" ?

[Edit: I found out that the sunrise on the Moon at that specific location took place at 12:10 am GMT, on July 21, 1969, the sunset took place at 6:28 pm GMT, on July 5, 1969, which is more than 15 terrestrial days later << information provided by Lunarphase software]

Derestanne said:

What if the exoplanet is found in a solar system with only five planets? Or what if we find a solar system with 32 planets?

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32 planets? Yikes, I think we're going to have to evolve some in order to provide a psychological profile for each of them!

On the other hand, if we landed on the only (moonless) planet surrounding a star then astrologers would be at a loose end - except, of course, for the person who wrote the incredibly accurate sun-sign horoscopes in the newspapers. In that event I expect we could make it more interesting by working out the meaning of each degree of each sign. 360 star signs, anyone?

Radu - Firstly a rather belated thank you for providing this wonderful website and its forum. It has certainly given me much food for thought and the chance to while away many a pleasant hour on my favourite pastime.

Moontime. Hm, I'm going to have to give this some thought. There is a moon clock calculator at www.lunarclock.org although I'm having a hard time understanding its meaning.

I am similarly discombobulated by your note

Radu said:

I found out that the sunrise on the Moon at that specific location took place at 12:10 am GMT, on July 21, 1969, the sunset took place at 6:28 pm GMT, on July 5, 1969, which is more than 15 terrestrial days later

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From this data, it would appear sunset occurred 15 days earlier than sunrise. If it should have read that sunrise took place on June 21, 1969, then these figures would not cover the date of the moon landing.

Would the moon also have "seasons" corresponding to those on earth since its orbit around the sun and angle to it is tied to that of the earth?

Also, since the moon spins on its axis once every 29.5 days, the Ascendant will only move through 12.2 degrees per earth day.

I'd never looked at the chart for the first moon landing before. Thank you for the data. Interesting to note that Jupiter was exactly conjunct Uranus at 0° Libra just 12 hours before men first landed on the moon - Expanding knowledge through a long and unusual journey through the air, at the exact boundary between our inner selves and the great out there. I've never understood why most people are not thoroughly amazed by this feat of engineering and human endeavour since we've had the good fortune to be born during this unique event in earth's history. Now I guess all those pictures from Hubble make us realise how much more there is to learn and how much farther we still have to go.

In Luna's chart, he Earth position might prove to be pretty significant.

Mars, incidentally, has two moons, so both those as well as Earth, would have to be plotted in. There could well be learned astrological articles discussing the problems of having afflictions to your Phobos.

It would be impossible. The planets would have all different Zodiacs and constellations, there would be completely different systems of astrology and it would just be crazy. Depending on what planet we were discussing other planets might be non-existant, and then we have the problems of the several, several satellites the gas giants possess.

In short,our minds would explode from the inability to compute this astrological connundrum.

Our own Astrology has been evolving since at least the time when references to the planets were found on tablets dating to Ancient Babylon. Today we have developed Astrology to a high level of sophistication, based on our knowledge of the heavenly bodies in our solar system.

Suppose for a moment that there is intelligent life, human or similar, in other solar systems and galaxies. Eventually they too would begin to recognize the passage of various events in their own world corresponding to the positions and aspects of various heavenly bodies orbiting their own planet. Once that happens, the study of Astrology would begin in earnest for that civilization as it did for ours.

Maybe, just maybe the mythology of "Ancient Astronauts" is that of a civilization that developed both Astrology and Astronautics before we did. Once they traveled to Earth, they began to share their knowledge of science, including Astrology.

Exactly Derestanne, for some reason people seem to believe that astrology on other planets would work the exact way as it would here on Earth. But seeing as how our geocentric astrology evolved through observations from Earth, obviously astrology from other planets would evolve through observations from that planet.

We see the twelve Signs of the Zodiac that are on the celestial equator because that's the way we observe them on Earth. However, on Saturn, the stars will look different and so they'll see different images in the stars than we see here on Earth. Not to mention they may have more Signs as Saturn's orbit is much, much longer than the Earth's so there's more room for constellations to fit in.

Not to mention that, from Saturn, the planets Mercury and Venus would always be Combust of the Sun, so they'd never see them from there, making those planets virtually non-existant. Goodness, just gets complicated and impossible as there's no way we can make mythology and whatnot from Saturn or any other planet, so I don't think we should even worry about it.

I should think that if it is possible to send someone to anbother planet in the first place, then it should not be impossible to make up epherides and evolve an astrology that is suited to the location either.

Maybe other planets seen from earth wil be combust conjunct the sun, but then there would be local moons to take into account instead. Especialy if it was on a moon near either Jupiter or Saturn, in which case, these parent planets would take on bigger significance.

I should think that if it is possible to send someone to anbother planet in the first place, then it should not be impossible to make up epherides and evolve an astrology that is suited to the location either.

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It's not really 'impossible' in that sense. It can be done, sure, I assume. But then it becomes forced astrology, which is going to turn out to be wrong. Like, the reason Venus became Venus is because she was the brightest and most beautiful star in the sky. Well, she's not going to be that on Saturn, so saying she's going to keep her same identity is probably a false statement.

Maybe other planets seen from earth wil be combust conjunct the sun, but then there would be local moons to take into account instead.

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Indeed, but which ones, which ones? Jupiter has 64+ moons. Now, maybe there are 64+ constellations observable from Jupiter that fall on the celestial equator, but who knows.

'But then it becomes forced astrology, which is going to turn out to be wrong'

How come? If it is an astrology peculiar to the locality, then given time (ok, there might not be much to develop ideas organically, if stuck in a dome or human satellite), then each new planetary body or moon will assume its own signature, according to how it is perceived.

On Mars, it could be that its two moons might assume to symbolism of our moon. On a moon belonging to Jupiter, anyone of its other moons might assume Venus-like status, if it is close enough to he eye and beautiful enough. Venusitself, if it is in combust to the Sun, might lose its significance on thenew location altogether.

If by 'given time' you mean some 5,000 years, then no, it wouldn't be forced astrology. Planetary satellites may indeed come to take over the archetypes of planets who have become Combust, but who knows. It's strange to think of it when there are a whole lot of 'what if' scenarios.

Actually, I would think that Terra herself would take the Lunar symbolism, if there was a constellation that evolved to be similar enough to Cancer, that is. But then, planetary personalities are probably going to change so much depending on an individual planetary culture's mythology and philosophy and all that crazy stuff.

It's not something that we can say "Let's go to Saturn and create a form of astrology". Where do you start? It'd be more something of the repeat of the history of the Earth, and astrology would evolve like it did here. Astrology is geocentric, astrology works for us because it's the way we see everything. Saturn sees different stars and most likely different planets than we can from the Earth. So, the only way a Saturn-centric astrology would work would be if life and thought occured in a similar way to Earth's history.

Impossible? No, I take that back. Improbable? Unless you've got some 5,000 years of history, philosophy, and evolution to drop off on another planet; definately.

So Luna would be the first human being for 5,000 years without an astrological signature?

The constellations would appear the same from the Moon as they do from the Earth. Indeed they would appear almost exactly the same from anywhere in the solar system since they are, in reality, so far away. So the zodiac would not present any problems as far as casting Luna's chart is concerned.

What would have to be decided is the role of the Earth in a sky without the Moon. As the "home planet" it would seem logical to allocate it rulership of the 4th house in place of the Moon, but would it be appropriate to assign rulership of the emotions to the Earth? Perhaps a child of science such as Luna would have less recourse to normal emotions in her everyday life - living on earth's satellite would require a fairly serious down-to-Moon attitude if one was to survive without mishap. This child of the Aquarian Age might well be typical of that sign in appearing to reserve her emotions for the community - she's likely to be on camera 24/7 after all.

The Moon spins on its axis once every 29 earth-days, which is why it always keeps the same face towards the earth. A rising sign on the Moon will therefore last nearly two-and-a-half earth-days, and the Earth would appear to travel through 13 signs of the zodiac each Earth-month.

Nexus7 is right to point out that someone born on Mars would have two moons in their chart - Phobos (fear) and Deimos (terror, panic). It's not unreasonable to assume that should environmental conditions on earth worsen appreciably in the short term, there would be an urgent need to colonise both the Moon and Mars and human beings could be born on either body before the end of this century. Perhaps in such circumstances we wouldn't have time to worry about the astrology of these space-born beings which is why it might be important to think about it now.

The constellations would appear the same from the Moon as they do from the Earth. Indeed they would appear almost exactly the same from anywhere in the solar system since they are, in reality, so far away. So the zodiac would not present any problems as far as casting Luna's chart is concerned.

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I wholly disagree with this. When our vantage point changes, everything changes. Depending on where we are, we'd see stars at different angles and forming different 'pictures'. Thus, we would arrive with different constellations. Also, as we move out or in, the orbit of the planet becomes longer (which would work to add in more constellations falling in the celestial equator) or shorter (which would take out or seemingly merge some constellations). Perhaps it would look the same from the Moon as it does from the Earth, but I don't really think Luna can count as she doesn't revolve around the Sun...hm.

What would have to be decided is the role of the Earth in a sky without the Moon. As the "home planet" it would seem logical to allocate it rulership of the 4th house in place of the Moon, but would it be appropriate to assign rulership of the emotions to the Earth?

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So, we just switch around the Earth and Moon for no real good reason other than that's the planet we used to be born on but are now born on another one? So, I suppose the Earth would also come to rule the Sign of Cancer for no other reason than that either. I would disagree and say for Luna the Moon would be her 'home planet' being the planet she was born on while the Earth is currently our home planet. Unless you mean 'home planet' in that the Moon revolves around the Earth (which is often the case when discussing alien satellites and their 'parent planet').

Perhaps a child of science such as Luna would have less recourse to normal emotions in her everyday life - living on earth's satellite would require a fairly serious down-to-Moon attitude if one was to survive without mishap. This child of the Aquarian Age might well be typical of that sign in appearing to reserve her emotions for the community - she's likely to be on camera 24/7 after all.

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That's a whole bunch of speculation and guessing.

Perhaps in such circumstances we wouldn't have time to worry about the astrology of these space-born beings which is why it might be important to think about it now.

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I don't think we should ever have to worry about it, because you're never going to get everyone to agree with it. I just don't see it working out well. The 'best thing' you could really do is this whole little switcheroo thing wherein the Earth takes over the properties of whatever planet people are being born on, but I'm sure you can easily see the fallacy in that idea.

Ithink Earth would have a very special meaning for someone whose home planet was either the Moon or Mars.

It is, remember, the only planet in this slar system able to sustain life. Therefore, any symbolim attached to it from a Lunar vantage point of a Martian viewpoint would have to take that on board as being extremely significant and there would have to be a correspondingly huge sense of dependence on it, if life can only be sustained on your home planet via artificial means.


Does anyone remember Space 1999? It was a rather cheesy and not very beleivable story of a space community surviving under domes on a Moon inadvertently blasted into space due to a nuclear accident. The community depend on the infrastructure of the dome to survive, but thesotry is all about their looking for a second Earth, a new home, where life might become feasible again without the necessity of oxygen suits, domes or recycling units.

At the same tme, if your body has attached to differing space conditions due to less atmosphere, you would probably find it very hard to cope with Terran gravity on visiting, making it actually less, or even, unattainable for you.

Nexus7 said:

In Luna's chart, he Earth position might prove to be pretty significant.

Mars, incidentally, has two moons, so both those as well as Earth, would have to be plotted in. There could well be learned astrological articles discussing the problems of having afflictions to your Phobos.

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And afflictions to your Deimos, too