The Left in 2018: Unhinged

As a Dem, are you proud to endorse these tactics or do you disavow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRHX6glTSM

I'm not sure your approach is actually helpful. You may have all the facts on your side, but as Scott Adams says, facts are overrated, because are people not rational beings, they just try to give themselves the appearance of being rational, and so they are persuaded more easily by fiction than facts.

PilgrimsProgress said:

As a Dem, are you proud to endorse these tactics or do you disavow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRHX6glTSM

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And the more aggresive they become, the more cocky they present themselves, the more supporters they will loose. In fact a lot of people, even generally progressive individuals are growing tired of this and are slowly shifting to a more conservative side. The reality is that these idiots are nothing more than a vocal minority.

The biggest damage however, is that companies have to listen to these idiots or otherwise they will get boycotted and targeted.

Here is a good example of a debate between conservative (Charlie Kirk) and a progressive (Hasan Piker). You will notice that, regardless of arguments, the progressive guy is just insufferable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHLzNIGeQfA

muchacho said:

I'm not sure your approach is actually helpful. You may have all the facts on your side, but as Scott Adams says, facts are overrated, because are people not rational beings, they just try to give themselves the appearance of being rational, and so they are persuaded more easily by fiction than facts.

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muchacho, while I agree with the core idea of your comment, I do have a different view of the outcome this may have.

They do not do this out of ignorance or irrationality, but because of a genuine interest for profit. Its all about the money. By constantly complaining, the rest of society (mainly corporations) are forced to hire specialists in this areas just to avoid the boycotts, apply the rules the left wants to avoid bad press, and promote progressive arguments to avoid being called racists. What does this mean for the leftist? money, advertising, investement in useless companies, etc. Leftist bloggers or writters get invited to TV shows, they sell books, they sell videos, etc.

But I do think people have began to see through this. And a lot of people are slowly letting the left go, because they are growing tired of this attitude. While talking to some of my (former) lefty friends, most awknowledge that while the left is going crazy, its not like the arguments of the right appeals to them, so they tend to stay in the left as considering themselves "moderates". But for what I have seen, this may be a transition phase. Slowly they begin to listen to the other side just a little bit more, and slowly they move from the left to the center. I've seen this happen with 2 friends of mine who were center left and are now leaning center right. Of course, there are a lot of people who are just too far gone, but we can only hope.

This is my opinion, based on what I see in my own country, in which being a lefty has been a succesfull ponzi scheme for the last 40 years and a lot of people, even leftists themselves have grown tired of this. Maybe I am wrong, but I generally do not think they are irrational, quite the contrary, I think they are well awared of their bias, and just want the power, the money and the respect and status it comes with spearheading this movement. And in the long run it becomes so evident for anyone to see, that they can only loose people.

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We can also point to some evidence of why the left wants more immigration into your country. Because in a couple of decades, they would have a new generation of leftist voters. They can't convert or keep the ones they have, so they need to import new voters. On the very least, this shows how weak their position truly is and why it is failing even in keeping the voters they already have. To me this is evidence that people are waking up and that the conservative/libertarian side needs to make a move and begin marketing itself better. I think this video, at least in spirit, is good. May not have the impact that the right expects, but it is at least a signal that something has began to happen. The conservatives need to take mainstream media back, and this may be a start.


I may be wrong, I hope I'm not.

muchacho said:

You may have all the facts on your side, but as Scott Adams says, facts are overrated, because are people not rational beings, they just try to give themselves the appearance of being rational, and so they are persuaded more easily by fiction than facts.

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You are right. For the Loonies it's all about feeeeeeeelings, not facts. That way they are easily manipulated by the media which is why everyday they are hysterical. Republicans have always used logic which Left wingers don't understand. Which is why I was happy to see this ad (above) -- they have adopted the tactics of the Left to fight fire with fire!

Speaking of Adams, did you see him say this? Scary. He needs to move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47G1RZ4lr_4

I just noticed a slightly longer ad with even more disturbing footage. Facts or feelings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW-I3CDma14

Dirius, as the latest NY election proved, the DNC is heading toward socialism. I'm hoping socialist Cynthia Nixon becomes governor because I'd like to see NY become a mini Venezuela. That would destroy the Dems.

Moderate Dems will either become independents or take another look at the Republican party which is moderate in comparison. Or the moderate Dems will just sit out the next few elections until there is a shift toward the center. My opinion.

All bolding by me to make sure you don't miss those statements.

Just the facts Ma'am.

President Trump Says North Korea Has Returned the Remains of 200 U.S. Soldiers

By Eli Meixler June 21, 2018

http://time.com/5318121/president-trump-north-korea-war-soldiers-remains/

But the facts as of a week later:

POLITICS 06/28/2018 04:47 pm ET

Trump Lied About Parents Of Korean War Vets, Now He's Lying About Returned Bodies

"The only problem: No remains have yet been returned, and it is unclear when that might happen. “We have not yet physically received them,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the Senate Appropriations Committee on Wednesday, but said that he is “optimistic” it would take place “in the not-too-distant future.” "

But first he lied about parents of soldiers who lost their lives in Korea:

" Fighting in Korea ended in 1953. A parent with a child killed there likely would have been at least 35 years old then ― and at least 100 years old today. Trump nevertheless claimed in a June 13 Fox News interview that “thousands” of such parents had asked him on the 2016 campaign trail for his help getting their children’s bodies home should he win the presidency."

Samantha Bean said:

Any discussion where the discussants have to use insulting names for each other is a sign that the one doing the insulting doesn't have a strong enough case to function on its merits, and has to use other means to get his/her point across.


I get tired enough of that from the head dude in the administrative branch of the US Government.

Both sides have valid arguments based on the premises for which they argue.


There is simply no good reason to call people you disagree with by insulting names.

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Aw, but it's FUN name-calling. Libtard and Trumptard, Looneyleft and Rightwingnut. I'm sticking with Space-Emperor Trump and his Space-cadets.

The political pendulum swings both ways. Back when Barry Goldwater was crushed in the 1964 Presidential Election, I remember the Liberals ecstatically declaring that the Republican Party was no longer viable, and believing the Dems would run the country from then on. We're seeing the reverse of that now. Problem is, the farther to one side the pendulum goes, the farther it goes back the other way. Makes "Moderation in All Things" sound like good advice when it comes to politics!

Samantha Bean said:

Any discussion where the discussants have to use insulting names for each other is a sign that the one doing the insulting doesn't have a strong enough case to function on its merits, and has to use other means to get his/her point across.

There is simply no good reason to call people you disagree with by insulting names.

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I agree. Every election cycle the same insults against conservatives are dragged out by the Left wingers: homophobic, bigot, racist, xenophobic, uneducated, Nazis and white supremacists. So predictable that it's become background white noise. Oh, wait, that's racist!

But what did you think of the facts presented in the GOP ad?

Point of fact: Before the French Revolution, anti-Monarchists sat on the left side of their parliament, pro-Monarchists on the right. That's where the terms "Left wing" and "Right wing" got started. By that definition, the Founding Fathers were Left wingers.

The current political divide might be defined as Rural versus Metropolitan. At least, that seems to be the case in California.

Yeah, unhinged is a fair word to describe the majority of liberals right now. I hate the mudslinging back and forth. Neither party is wonderful in my book.

Right now, I think that quite a few of my fellow millennial are having a collective temper tantrum and being infantile.

People are mostly just into whatever sort of #activism is trending at the moment.

For ****’s sake, we still have slavery going on! It could be happening at the end of your street! Both parties need to work together to end human trafficking. This is probably our biggest issue...but all the cool kids in Hollywood aren’t talking about it so pretty much nobody cares.

PilgrimsProgress said:

As a Dem, are you proud to endorse these tactics or do you disavow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRHX6glTSM

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O

Don't be silly. Of course sensible people of any political persuasion would disavow the tactics, but if you have made no serious effort to understand the very real issues that boiled over in these snippets, you've missed the whole point.

Let's re-wind back to the early 1960s in the US, and revisit all of the violent conservative backlash against the Civil Rights movement. Or let's look at the white supremacist march in Charlotte: do you support their tactics merely because you identify yourself as a conservative? https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/us/charlottesville-white-nationalists-rally/index.html

Surely you are familiar with systemic, state-sponsored violence that goes way, way beyond your video clip. Maybe you're happy about Hispanic toddlers being separated from their parents at the border, screaming in fear, and now the Trump regime doesn't even know how to get them back to their parents, long since deported.

Who's a Dem around here, anyway? You'd call my politics liberal, no doubt, but I registered as an independent.

david starling said:

Point of fact: Before the French Revolution, anti-Monarchists sat on the left side of their parliament, pro-Monarchists on the right. That's where the terms "Left wing" and "Right wing" got started. By that definition, the Founding Fathers were Left wingers.

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Right, David.

Not to mention that if Jesus were to reincarnate in the US today, he would be considered a liberal.

Jesus preached feeding and clothing the poor out of one's personal surplus (Luke 3:11,) whereas Republicans would condemn this as "income redistribution."

""Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great...." (Luke 6:35)

Nothing in the Gospels prohibits abortion, supports the second amendment, or condemns marriage equality for LGBT people.

Jesus said, "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." (Matthew 5:39)

Matthew 25:35-38: "For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?…

'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'"

Trump supporters, in contrast, are looking to cut Medicaid, medical assistance to special needs children, and food stamps for hungry children.

I could go on in this fashion, but I won't in the belief that either conservatives "get it" or they are motivated by non-Christian beliefs.

Their strategy is support for corporate welfare, tax cuts for the rich, and a futile trade war with America's allies.

Socialism has become this huge bogeyman for the Fox News crowd. But according to the UN's annual World Happiness Report, which is based on extensive polling, the 10 happiest countries in the world today w/ rankings) are:

Finland:
Norway:
Denmark:
Iceland: ..
Switzerland:
Netherlands:
Canada:
New Zealand:

The rankings are weighted towards the variables of "income (GDP per capita), healthy life expectancy, social support, freedom, trust (absence of corruption) and generosity." US ranks #18, primarily due to declines in health of its citizens (obesity, substance abuse, untreated depression.) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/these-are-the-top-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html

In contrast, the happiest countries have single-payer health care systems. People know that if they get sick, they won't get bankrupted, nor will they have to pay out-of-pocket for all but catastrophic health care coverage. (My son's deductable is $7000, PP: What's yours?)

Form of government of the happiest countries? They go by various names (republic, parliamentary system, constitutional monarchy, &c) but all of them would be considered socialist-leaning democracies by the right wingers in the US. I live in Canada, which is a democracy governed by a popular system. It's probably more like the US than like Norway, but basically if people feel they get something for their tax dollars in a non-corrupt system, they are apt to support it. Such countries are more apt to have solid unemployment benefits, care for poor elderly people, a high standard of health care, and good education systems.

In the US we have Secretary Betsy DeVos trying to dismantle the public education system, although about one in five American children now lives below the poverty level. (Thus diminishing their chances of having work-ready skills.)

Don't get me started on Donald Trump, please.

Sagcap88 said:

....

For ****’s sake, we still have slavery going on! It could be happening at the end of your street! Both parties need to work together to end human trafficking. This is probably our biggest issue...but all the cool kids in Hollywood aren’t talking about it so pretty much nobody cares.

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I agree that it is a big problem. Please inform me of what the Republican party is currently doing about it.

We won't call refugee children being ripped from their mothers' arms and sent to "summer camps" where they are kept in cages and the government loses track of them a form of state-sponsored human trafficking.

But now a Republican candidate (Dennis Hof) for the state legislature in Nevada has the endorsement of local evangelicals. His claim to fame? He owns several brothels, and wrote a book called, The Art of the Pimp, modeled after Donald Trump's ghost-written book, The Art of the Deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...idate-state-seat-win-pimp-trump-a8396636.html

Truly, the right wingers have lost their moral compass.

Obama was nicknamed the Deporter-In-Chief. His administration apprehended over 3 million people at the border, which is over a million more than Republican president George W. Bush apprehended. The figures on deportation are a little hard to compare, due to differences in numbers of people trying to cross the border or in the US illegally, but he seems to have outdone his predecessors on deportations, also.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

Some of us find that old Rothschild conspiracy theory to be both anti-semitic and untenable based upon any kind of evidence.

Oops. Did I just say a bad e-word here?

rahu, I absolutely take your point on global income maldistribution.

However, many ordinary Americans would quality in the 1%. Not because they're fatcat billionaires but because wages in most of the world are so low.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

The cut-off figure for the richest 1%? $US 32,000 annual income, or about $770K in total assets. The latter figure sounds like a lot, but would include home ownership in an expensive city and a pension fund.

Just wondering who on this thread qualifies.

waybread said:

I agree that it is a big problem. Please inform me of what the Republican party is currently doing about it.

We won't call refugee children being ripped from their mothers' arms and sent to "summer camps" where they are kept in cages and the government loses track of them a form of state-sponsored human trafficking.

But now a Republican candidate (Dennis Hof) for the state legislature in Nevada has the endorsement of local evangelicals. His claim to fame? He owns several brothels, and wrote a book called, The Art of the Pimp, modeled after Donald Trump's ghost-written book, The Art of the Deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...idate-state-seat-win-pimp-trump-a8396636.html

Truly, the right wingers have lost their moral compass.

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Thanks to Ashton Kutcher (see speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTT-_tbZf1o) over thousands of children have been rescued from human trafficking — sex slavery. These children were raped multiple times a day. That is far worse and far less discussed than the “summer camps”. Yes, it is horrible that these children are separated from their parents. But this is hyped up by the media to bash Trump. Not to help these kids. It’s all terrible but unfortunately we must prioritize. The people with the worst situation need to be addressed first.

And I voted Bernie, BTW. Don’t blame me!