Will we be together again?

andrea2709

Well-known member
UPDATE: Will we be together again?

I would like somebody to help me answer my horary question. This guy and me were seeing each other for like a month, we were not officially in a relationship but we acted like we were. We went on dates, cooked together and all that sort of stuff but nobody knew that we were dating. It ended because 3 months ago, before we were together, he ended a 6 year old relationship and he didn't want to fall in love and commit at this time. So we split up and he wanted to continue seeing each other but like a friends. He also mentioned that maybe in the future, we might be together again. Can somebody that knows horary help me with this? My question is will we reconcile?
Thanks :smile:

Link to the chart https://imgur.com/a/rW6fzLV
 

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The Everqueen

Well-known member
Hi there

I think you will reconcile.

Jupiter, Venus and the Moon rule you. The Moon is combust so you are not seeing things clearly and are fearful but this is also because you are close to the Sun and feel overwhelmed by this man.

He is the 7H which is ruled by Mercury and the Sun both situated in the 7H which usually means they aren't interested. However, the receptions are pretty good - The Sun receives the Moon in rulership which is good and Jupiter (you) in exaltation - this doesn't usually last, as it's seeing you not in a realistic way. Mercury receives Jupiter in detriment, which shows he doesn't like you right now but Mercury is soon to change signs and his feelings are going to change when he is in the sign of Cancer which is ruled by the Moon and will also exalt Jupiter. He loves your heart but not so much your personality.

Mercury is applying to trine Jupiter in about 4 and half degrees and the Moon is applying to conjunct the Sun in just under 4 degrees - 4 +/-days/weeks/months.
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Greetings Everqueen, first of all thank you so much for this interpretation. :biggrin:
When you said that mercury will soon change sign and that his feelings will change when it enters Cancer, does that mean his feelings for me will change for the better? Thank you in advance.
I would like other members to reply as well, if they would add something to this. I'm pretty new in horary and would love to get other opinions too, so I can learn more :love: Maybe something about the timing of reconciliation, will it be weeks or months?
Also I'm concerned about this moon sun conjunction, because I saw comment on somebody else's horary question, when moon and sun are applying to conjunct, some member said it is good for the question, because the action will be taken, and it would bring positive outcome.
 

The Everqueen

Well-known member
Greetings Everqueen, first of all thank you so much for this interpretation. :biggrin:

You're welcome!

When you said that mercury will soon change sign and that his feelings will change when it enters Cancer, does that mean his feelings for me will change for the better? Thank you in advance.

Yes it's for the better. Rulership is a major dignity as is exaltation but exaltation on it's own isn't lasting.

I would like other members to reply as well, if they would add something to this. I'm pretty new in horary and would love to get other opinions too, so I can learn more :love:

You learn by practicing! You should have tried to answer the chart first and see if it fits with what others say! :wink:

Maybe something about the timing of reconciliation, will it be weeks or months?

I mentioned the timing is between 4 and 4 and half 'somethings' - could be days, weeks or months or at a push years! It's hard to get timing exactly right. It does happen but it's not easy! You need to look at the houses the planets are in and their signs to work it out as close as possible.

Also I'm concerned about this moon sun conjunction, because I saw comment on somebody else's horary question, when moon and sun are applying to conjunct, some member said it is good for the question, because the action will be taken, and it would bring positive outcome.

Conjunctions can be good or bad depending on the planets involved. This is the Moon with the Sun. The Sun represents him as a man wanting a mate so shows you coming together.

Hope that helps! :biggrin:
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Yes I have tried interpreting it by myself by looking at other horary charts in this forum, so I came to pretty much the same conclusion as you. But I thought maybe I have missed something negative in this chart. I have one question too, he is mercury so he will be the one to pursue me I guess, because it is the faster moving planet?
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
I read somewhere that timing is judged by the swifter planet's position, in this case that would be mercury, which is in common sign but in an angular house, so my guess based on that would be maybe 4 weeks or months at maximum.
Again thank you so much for this :smile:
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
The chart has a fairly late degree on ascendent, showing that things have already come along quite a bit.
The two significators, mercury and Jupiter are not in aspect. Evergreen has already pointed out several considerations, for example that he as mercury is in his own house, his own sign, and the sign is Jupiter's detriment.
Jupiter is in mercury's fall and detriment and in addition is retrograde.
So we can clearly see the two parties on very different platforms, very different energies, neither in a place that is welcoming to the other, with the querent (you) moving backwards and mulling things over while he is perfectly happy where he is at the moment.
Your co-significator is Saturn, also retrograde, and in its own sign, so you too are standing off and also re-passing over things but not moving towards an aspect in the chart that is helpful.
In a romantic chart we could also look at Venus and mars, distancing from the opposition with Saturn and the square with Uranus, which shows us the attraction that was there at the beginning that cooled off and that came to an abrupt end. Also Venus and mars are not moving towards any aspects, so no action to look forward to on their part.
The other pair in romantic charts are of course sun and moon, the male and the female. And here it does look like they are approaching a conjunction.
However, before moon reaches sun it will be in aspect with Uranus, so we have this energy being blocked as well.
Who do the sun and moon represent here?
Moon is his co-significator, so we see him again in his own territory, own sign, and moving towards freedom-loving Uranus.
Sun is his second house ruler, self esteem, and your 8th of sexual matters. Added to the sexual couple Venus/mars in your 8th, it looks like he is just having a good time, and hoping for a little gravy on the side but with no strings attached and no commitments, which are the trademarks of Uranus. Uranus is sitting near the cusp of your 5th of love affairs, which gives a confirmation of this.
True, when mercury changes signs it will trine Jupiter. However, before that happens, moon will make a sinister (i.e. backwards) contact with mercury by semi-sextile. So this to me looks a little more like him pulling back into himself, just like the cancer crab moon would withdraw, given that moon is his co-significator.
I calculated the chart with some asteroids inserted to give us a little more insight.
Juno, the classic marriage asteroid, is at 9 sagittarius 59, so almost exactly on the 12th house cusp of subconscious doings, self-undoing, restrictions. And it is almost exactly on the south node, the point where you give way, so no marriage would be forthcoming in this relationship. Also, Juno is retrograde separating from the contact with SN.
The contact may be a karmic one which is left over from the past, you may even have been in a marriage in a past life with this person, but not in this lifetime.
The asteroid Amor, selfless love, is at 11 taurus, which is exactly square your co-significator Saturn, showing a loveless contact, and it is near that fickle Uranus we talked about above.
Considering Saturn is in your 2nd of self esteem, this relationship could give you a heavy blow to your self confidence.
Chiron, the wounded healer, is at 12 Aries, almost exactly square the moon, him, from his 9th house of intellect... he should be learning from this contact but is fighting it.
Finally, Pallas, asteroid of wisdom and intuition, is at 27 pisces, exactly square his main significator mercury (planet of intellect and thoughts). Again, it takes place from his 9th house and is near intuitive but confusion inducing Neptune. He hasn't a clue and isn't open to receiving it.
So, reconciliation, doesn't look like it.
The relationship had it's specific karmic purpose, and each of you must cull from it what you need to move further on your spiritual paths.
Don't consider this a loss, but a positive experience for growth.
 

rafaella

Well-known member
Hi Andrea,
Everqueen gave a good judgement of the chart, so I have nothing much to add. I'll say this, his intellectual side (mercury), and him as a man ( sun), show different things. Mercury here is in his side of the chart, his own house and sign and in detriment of mercury. This shows he is unwilling to pursue you, and his mind is telling him to stay away. Sun, on the other hand exalts Jupiter, so as a man he thinks you are a great catch. There is attraction. Again sun is in his house, 7th, so he may still not want to pursue despite being interested. however, as mentioned above, Mercury does change signs and will trine Jupiter, reception turns positive. So his thoughts will change in your favour. He might pursue, but he'll be cautious. Jupiter actually mutually applies to Mercury, as Jupiter retrogrades. so it might be you who may have to take control and push things forward once you see him welcoming your advances. Moon here is combust, however combustion is not as severe as Moon has rulership in Cancer, so it disposits the Sun. Moon can still function here. timing 4 weeks to months seems plausible.

so don't stress too much, keep in touch with him as a friend but without being too pushy. I see you guys getting back together.

please update!
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Elena, firstly I want to thank you for this detailed interpretation. There are 4 things I dont understand so please explain to me.
First: Why is Saturn my co-significator?
Then, why is Moon his co-significator and not mine?
Third: Why do we consider a semi-sextile as a prohibition? In William Lilly's "Christian Astrology" it is stated that only major aspects are considered. Even on some threads here, I have read that even a sextile is weak aspect in some cases when not supported by receptions, but yet it is major aspect, so what about semi-sextile? It would be even meaningless then, especially when moon is included, because he is the fastest moving planet so he will then make multiple aspects in only few days.. So we would then have a prohibition by moon in almost every, if not every chart.
And last: When you said that sun moon conjunction will be blocked/prohibited by Uranus, again I wonder if outer planets are used in judging horary. I dont want to instill any rules here, but it is from my learning experience.
But again, even if it really is prohibited, we again have this applying trine from Mercury to Jupiter, which is in horary questions best aspect to have between significators, isn't it?
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Rafaella thanks to you too for this interpretation. I think I understand your point but just to confirm if I understand it correctly: You said that right now he wont pursue, because Mercury is in Gemini, but when Mercury goes into Cancer, he will be willing to reconcile, is that right? and Sun exalts me (jupiter), so he has that mind-heart war going on right?
And when you said that it might be me who may have to take control, did you mean that I will be the one to suggest getting back together, or initiating contact, because we're currently not communicating, since the day of split up, so what do you mean I will have to take control?
And lastly, oh god, sorry to bother you, about that moon combustion, can we interpret them as him and I coming together, as moon applies to conjunct sun again in 4 degrees same as mercury to jupiter?
 
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The Everqueen

Well-known member
But again, even if it really is prohibited, we again have this applying trine from Mercury to Jupiter, which is in horary questions best aspect to have between significators, isn't it?

Mercury and Jupiter are coming from receiving each other in detriment which is the opposite of exaltation so not a good place really. The trine is good but the dignity isn't.
 

The Everqueen

Well-known member
Rafaella thanks to you too for this interpretation. I think I understand your point but just to confirm if I understand it correctly: You said that right now he wont pursue because Mercury is in Gemini, but when Mercury goes into Cancer, he will be willing to reconcile, is that right? and Sun exalts me (jupiter), so he has that mind-heart war going on right?

Sorry to butt in! The aspect made between Mercury and Jupiter is when Mercury changes signs so not right now. I'm not sure if there is a set amount of degrees to consider when a planet changes signs in these circumstances but as Mercury is 3 degrees, it's pretty close to the end of the sign. When Mercury changes signs to Cancer it will be in the Moon's rulership so his head has a change of mind.
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Sorry to butt in! The aspect made between Mercury and Jupiter is when Mercury changes signs so not right now. I'm not sure if there is a set amount of degrees to consider when a planet changes signs in these circumstances but as Mercury is 3 degrees, it's pretty close to the end of the sign. When Mercury changes signs to Cancer it will be in the Moon's rulership so his head has a change of mind.

I think bonatti included that if the aspect is already within the orb, which this is, even though in different signs, then it is allowed to consider that particular aspect.
 
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rafaella

Well-known member
Rafaella thanks to you too for this interpretation. I think I understand your point but just to confirm if I understand it correctly: You said that right now he wont pursue, because Mercury is in Gemini, but when Mercury goes into Cancer, he will be willing to reconcile, is that right? and Sun exalts me (jupiter), so he has that mind-heart war going on right?
And when you said that it might be me who may have to take control, did you mean that I will be the one to suggest getting back together, or initiating contact, because we're currently not communicating, since the day of split up, so what do you mean I will have to take control?
And lastly, oh god, sorry to bother you, about that moon combustion, can we interpret them as him and I coming together, as moon applies to conjunct sun again in 4 degrees same as mercury to jupiter?

yes, you will see a change in his attitude and him willing to be closer to you, as his thoughts about you will change for the positive. Yes mind/heart war seems correct.
You can instigate contact, and this is what I mean by taking control, as I mentioned both planets are mutually applying to each other. You both need to pull your weight, reception alone can't do. You said you are just friends now, you can do lots of things as friends - go to museum, a country drive, weekend market or a quick coffee and so on.. just treat him as friend so he doesn't feel like you are pushing for more at this point. If you have no contact right now, then just send him a hi, how are you? yes Moon/Sun also conjunct in 4 degrees, I see them as secondary significators confirming the aspect made by your main significators. This is a great positive chart, we don't have them often in horary. So be patient, it will all work out. all the best!
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
I'm really odd man out here, I don't see the chart as bringing to a positive conclusion.
The main difference I believe between our interpretations is that I do not consider the aspects made after the change of sign, while the others do.

Elena, firstly I want to thank you for this detailed interpretation. There are 4 things I dont understand so please explain to me.
First: Why is Saturn my co-significator?
Then, why is Moon his co-significator and not mine?

The 2nd house cusp is in Aquarius, so Capricorn is in the 1st house, ruled by Saturn, making this a co-significator. The same reasoning was applied to his intercepted cancer in the 7th, making moon his co-significator.
Normally yes, you would have moon as a significator, but when the quesited takes it as in this case it is his.



Third: Why do we consider a semi-sextile as a prohibition? In William Lilly's "Christian Astrology" it is stated that only major aspects are considered. Even on some threads here, I have read that even a sextile is weak aspect in some cases when not supported by receptions, but yet it is major aspect, so what about semi-sextile? It would be even meaningless then, especially when moon is included, because he is the fastest moving planet so he will then make multiple aspects in only few days.. So we would then have a prohibition by moon in almost every, if not every chart.

Correct in that semi-sextile is not normally considered in horary as an aspect.
In this case I did consider it, as both moon and mercury are his significators and I see him as withdrawing into himself, while he is in his own sign.
I didn't consider this a prohibition in se for the reason that I didn't take into consideration the mercury/jupiter trine after the change of signs. I normally consider aspects made in what you might consider a static chart but not those contacts made after planets change signs. Admittedly it is a disputable technique, and in fact the others do take into consideration the aspect made after change of sign.


And last: When you said that sun moon conjunction will be blocked/prohibited by Uranus, again I wonder if outer planets are used in judging horary.

This is the difference between modern and traditional horary. I use the outer planets.

I dont want to instill any rules here, but it is from my learning experience.
But again, even if it really is prohibited, we again have this applying trine from Mercury to Jupiter, which is in horary questions best aspect to have between significators, isn't it?

Yes, the trine is a very good aspect to have between significators.
And the positive replies are based mainly on this future trine.
If only I could see to accepting it in this chart for a positive answer to the question!
I detailed other aspects of the chart, as well as asteroid contacts, which when all summed up, lead me to the same conclusion as before.

For your sake, I hope that Evergreen and Raffaella are correct, they are both very qualified. Time will tell.
Do let us know how things work out.
 

The Everqueen

Well-known member
I dug out my Horary Textbook (John Frawley of course!) to check that change of sign and I think it is fine in this case.

It is possible that an aspect may perfect immediately inside the next sign. Example: Moon at 28 Aries applies to Mars at 2 Taurus. There is no connection between them now. None at all. This is not an aspect. But it will be an aspect.

Such an aspect can show something happening after a change. But we must make sense of this change, as shown by the change of sign and consequent change of reception, if we are to allow this aspect to show the desired event.
Example: 'Will she go out with me?' with aspect between you and her perfecting only after your planet has changed sign. Depending on what the receptions show, this might tell us 'Yes she will - but only after you've got a job'. The change of sign shows a change in circumstance, and/or change in attitude.


Limit this to a few degrees inside the next sign. If the aspect does not perfect within, at most, 3 or 4 degrees of the next sign, the thing will not happen.

I think this fits in with your chart okay - 4 and a half degrees - I doubt the extra half a degree could make that much of a difference. Something is going to change, his feeling towards you. If the receptions were the other way around going from rulership to detriment then it would be a different scenario.

In traditionally astrology we don't mix the significators - Moon is always co-significator to the querent unless it belongs to the other house in question and the Sun is man as a mate unless being used by another house. So this can only be the querent and the quesited.

The Ascendant isn't late - from 27 degrees is late. We don't use the outer planets unless they are on an angle and no significators makes aspects to them.

I agree with Rafaella this looks like a decent chart! :smile:
 

andrea2709

Well-known member
Ooh such a good news! I'm so glad and thankful you checked your old book so you can answer my question.
He said "Limit this to a few degrees inside the next sign. If the aspect does not perfect within, at most, 3 or 4 degrees of the next sign, the thing will not happen." Maybe he meant that planet that's changing sign, has to make perfect aspect within 4 degrees of that next sign. I dont know if you understand what I'm trying to say haha, but nonetheless I'm pretty sure that anyway it applies to this situation of mine.

"Something is going to change, his feeling towards you. If the receptions were the other way around going from rulership to detriment then it would be a different scenario." - Yes I agree totally, that would turn the situation in negative way, I mean his feelings would change in negative. So this makes sense, he (mercury) is changing signs (changing his feelings to a more positive) so we (jupiter and mercury trine aspect) can come back together.
"The Ascendant isn't late - from 27 degrees is late." Yes, I read that in William Lilly's book

"We don't use the outer planets unless they are on an angle and no significators makes aspects to them."- In this chart, before Moon gets to the Sun, it meets with sextile to Uranus, so I'm not sure if it counts as a prohibition, or Uranus makes impact only when in conjunction to significator? Uranus rules my third house, when we use whole whouse system, and it is a sextile, so a positive aspect to Uranus. But even if it prohibits, there are still Mercury and Jupiter.
Thank you so much for this gesture!
 
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