suicide

Nate of the 12th

Well-known member
Jeremy said:
I only wanted to say that Moon in Capricorn on its own does not predispose to depression. Moon in any sign square Pluto in the 8th gives a very Scorpio cast to the emotions.
Yes, I see it the same way :)

Jeremy said:
I quoted the case of Neptune rising, which I am sure any astrologer would agree personalises its effect whether or not it is aspected to inner planets.

Definitely a conjunction with the ascendant or midheaven would be very significant.... Neptune on the ascendant can exacerbate a difficult chart as it can potentially defocus the native's life and send him inwardly
 

Nate of the 12th

Well-known member
Actually, I'm less depressed in the last few months. I have a project I have undertaken which keeps me interested and gives me some credits that my moon likes. It also brings money that my sun likes :) I've been on my way to the house of Hades before this thing came together - and at the very last gasping moments I might add. Now it is somewhat bearable, but the fundamental tensions are still there, waiting for the next eruption.
 

star2858

Well-known member
Nate of the 12th said:
Actually, I'm less depressed in the last few months. I have a project I have undertaken which keeps me interested and gives me some credits that my moon likes. It also brings money that my sun likes :) I've been on my way to the house of Hades before this thing came together - and at the very last gasping moments I might add. Now it is somewhat bearable, but the fundamental tensions are still there, waiting for the next eruption.

I have to agree with Nate about the 12th house.

I am only 20 and i have felt like taking my own life. When problems arise, the thought flashes across my mind and i quickly dismiss them. I think i may have the dispositions as well.

12th house jupiter and moon. Neptune retro in 8th. Jupiter trine Neptune.

What more could i ask for?
 

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aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi Star,

Jup in 12 is also considered a 'guardian-angel' aspect, and you will find this aspect in most celebrity charts for e.g. Also your Jupiter is not in any major hard aspects to other planets in the chart. You also have Venus (planet of small fortune) as the ruler of your chart, in trine to your Asc, and close to your Sun, which means natural good fortune.

Neptune, though basically unafflicted, forms a square to Mer, which might result in some confusion of thought. But this is no insurmountable problem. An 'airy' Mer lends the native an intelligent & progressive thought-process (so just do away with those silly thoughts:p). You also also have no Pluto problems like many others, which is a big thing, believe you me;).

Okay Moon in 12 might make the native a bit withdrawn in his own shell, even lonesome and depressed at times, but again your Moon is unafflicted. And most of the times, it's only matter of what and how you use the energies of a planet in combination to those of the house its placed in for, so it's better to synergise the sensitive Moon to the deep and spiritual energies of house 12 - no house is bad! In fact, people with Nep on 12, and Moon in 12 (such as you), can take it far with spirituality or would do well in social service, as they are full of compassion and empathy.
Also, you have a Grand Trine in your chart again beautifully aspecting Venus to MC and Asc, which also brings luck and good fortune, so cheer up, cause I see no major hassles at all in your chart.

:)aquarius7000
 
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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I know from personal experience that it's difficult to have a stellium of inner planets square two outer planets, and these planets are conjunct the sixth and eighth house cusps--two houses that are considered difficult perhaps due to the fact that they don't form any major aspects to the Ascendant.

This doesn't "doom" you, though, or even necessarily make you inclined toward suicide, but the outer planets in the eighth house may give you an intuitive sense that "death" is transformation. However, "death" does not have to be a death of the physical body--perhaps it can be death of the ego, death of desire, etc.

This is just a thought.

Arian Maverick
 

blueheron

Well-known member
I'd be very careful about reading "suicide" in a chart. VERY CAREFUL. After many years of working with charts, and discovering how frequently (when I really listened to the client,) my "mind scenario" needed adjusting, I'm careful even with the easy stuff. Suicide... DON'T GO THERE.
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Good point, blueheron.

As the saying goes, "The stars incline; they do not impel." How can one possibly look at a chart and say a native is "destined" for suicide?

With this thought in mind, however, perhaps there would be certain astrological portraits that may incline one to have self-destructive--although not necessarily suicidal--thoughts. I suppose one must also take into consideration why a certain individual may wish to take his or her own life.

If anyone on the forums is contemplating suicide, please get help!

I'm sorry, but I couldn't participate in this thread with a clear conscience without stating this.

Arian Maverick
 

Hey

Banned
I just want to say-
It's funny how society makes it seems that men are unemotional, yet more men commit suicide than women.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
VERY RIGHT Blueheron!!

It's all very well and all right trying to apply astrology to things like a person being 'over-emotional', or having a 'good sense of humour' and even for predictions to a certain extent, but no serious and responsible astrologer would/should actually go as far as endeavouring to read things like 'sexual orientation' of a person or 'suicide', or trying to predict death out of a chart. It's not only absurd and obnoxious, but, as you aptly said Blueheron, it is dangerous.

Sorry, if anyone is inclined to take this as an overreaction, but I think it's necessary to have added a post with this content to this thread as well.

Best wishes
:)aquarius7000
 
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Nate of the 12th

Well-known member
star2858 said:
I have to agree with Nate about the 12th house.

I am only 20 and i have felt like taking my own life. When problems arise, the thought flashes across my mind and i quickly dismiss them. I think i may have the dispositions as well.

I have observed emotional issues with Aries Moon, it seems to have dramatic inclinations and feels things very intensely. It is even more sensitized by that Neptune square and the 12th house. My mom also has an Aries Moon, in the 8th house with all sorts of quincunxes, and she did have a serious nervous breakdown in the past, but now she manages to use her Gemini sun to alter her perceptions in a positive way. I've noticed that the earth signs on the other hand are more inclined to negative, sometimes morbid thinking, and may in a problematic chart coalesce around it. I've found a lot of Tauruses on support forums I used to hang around.

I did read about a research that found that 9% of the earth's population had some thoughts about suicide. Another research found that 16% of high school students had these thoughts (meaning it's on the rise). It kinda put things into proportions to me, and make me hope that at some point society will not be able to ignore all this pain anymore and make some fundamental changes instead of trying to feed us pills like we're some diseased freaks, and not a product of society itself.
 

universal

Well-known member
Yesterday, June 26/08, my uncle by marriage committed suicide. From what I know, there had been no signs, no depression. There was no note. He was a farmer and a pillar of the church. My aunt, my dad's sister, found him in the barn. He had hung himself.
Everyone is saying, "what the 'h-e-double hockey sticks' happened?" I have found Arian M's postings here, and the article, especially helpful, as the guy's transits didn't seem to be a big deal.

After I heard, I got out my ephemeris and checked his chart and the aunt's (this was her 2nd unsuccessful marriage) and the uncle's sister (who'd also had a 2nd, extremely unhappy marriage, to my Dad.) The sister and the deceased had some kind of strange relationship where they called each other constantly and sort of co-existed as one.
The late uncle was a Pisces Sun, born, I believe March 7/46, the wife Aug 19/36 and the sister Oct. 10, 1940.
Mercury (decision-making faculty?) seemed to be playing a role for the uncle on the day he decided to check out. Transiting Mercury was broadly square his Sun also conjuncted his Uranus. Transiting Moon was probably conjunct his natal Mercury , which is natally opposed by Neptune. Tr. Sun also squared his natal mercury that day, so like I said, Mercury stuff was going on, but aside from that, looked like a pretty good day for him. (Upon further reflection, I note that transiting Jupiter was opposed to his Saturn on the fateful day.)

Back to Arian M's posted article. The author said he found a Saturn/Mars natal chart connection to suicide. That holds true here. The uncle had a natal Saturn Mars conjunction within 3 degrees in Cancer. Mars is square Neptune, but the conjunction is also trine Sun (indicative of a successful attempt?) Arian M's article also mentions Moon and Pluto. The uncle probably had a pretty close natal Pluto square Moon aspect. Arian M. mentioned a neck reference. The uncle's Moon was in Taurus and we all know what that rules.
The wife's transits seemed worse than for the uncle who checked out. She's got tr. Neptune opposing Sun (husband I guess), tr.Mars was conjunct her Sun that day. Tr. Mercury was square her Neptune, and apparently she was clueless till she found him swinging. The wife has a natal T square of Jupiter squaring saturn and also Jupiter squaring neptune, mercury and Venus. She also has Mars square Uranus! Don't have birthtime chart, but apparently, it's not one conducive to a good marriage, or at least one that ends naturally...

A chart comparison of the late husband and the surviving wife is, to me at least, unsavoury. Her Neptune, Mercury ,Venus and probably Moon opposed his Sun and squared his Jupiter and Uranus and her Uranus conjuncted his Moon and squared his Pluto. Her Mars also squared his Moon and conjuncted his Pluto. To top it all off, her Saturn was conjunct his Sun! Going out on a limb here, I think the relationship was the straw that broke the farmer's back.

The sister's chart had an exact conjunction of transiting Saturn conjunct Venus. Tr. Mars was also square an afflicted natal Uranus. The love of her life was cruelly taken.
We are still left wondering 'why', although I got to say, I'm not one to dwell on the question. My gut feeling is his action was a passive-aggressive (runs in that family, believe me) ****-*** to everybody he left behind. Good luck in the next world uncle. I think you'll need it.
 
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NeptuneAscendant

Well-known member
Hey said:
I just want to say-
It's funny how society makes it seems that men are unemotional, yet more men commit suicide than women.

I think both sexes can be very emotional. More commonly (and I'm not trying to be stereotypical, but most of the time, this is how things are), women express their emotions, whereas men tend to keep them to themselves.

---

I'd look for a negatively-aspected Moon (Depressive feelings), Mars (violence), Saturn (Pessimism), Uranus (Sudden changes), Neptune (not seeing things how they truly are; could make them see things worse than what the truly are), Pluto (elimination; eruptive change).

Also, the Lord of the Eighth House, if in adverse aspect to many of these planets could indicate suicidal tendencies.

Maybe a crowded Eighth or Twelfth House could support the suicidal tendencies, if any other signs of suicidal tendencies are found in the chart.
 

Otay

Well-known member
I've noticed time and again how a family line is 'tainted' just by example of one who commits suicide. It's amazing how just about anything makes it into the genes, whether it be dad playing the mandolin around a birth of one of his children, or does himself in.
Then of course we're getting into nature vs nurture. Someone you look up to doesn't think his child is important enough to stick around for. "What's the use?" the child might say and attempt the same thing dad did later in life. It is a stain on the soul of those that remain. Very terrible thing to do to your children, I've often thought this and have seen what it does to a child's image of themselves. It can destroy them. They might be the future adult who commits suicide after having a child or two of their own. On and on goes the legacy.

Mars/saturn aspects can be rather black & white, do or die, as well as disciplined.

Arian, I've noticed OFTEN how mars/saturn conjunctions are accompanied by venus/jupiter conjunctions.
This seems either quite devoted to a cause of kindness and goodness with action to back it up and build something.
More often it tends to be incredibly simplistic, like the concept of "patriotism".
 

Otay

Well-known member
Nate of the 12th said:
Surely there are exceptions to every rule in astrology, and I found Uranus and Aquarius influences somewhat contraindicatory to depression, because it gives the ability to "disconnect" emotionally. Also the problems with Capricorn seem to come up when the person is not working at some goal, not trying to climb some mountain. My Pluto influences and 12th / 8th house combos make me spiritually question everything, so I cannot go work at some supermarket chain just to get myself busy, because the fake-feeling it gives me just depresses me further.

I know Air signs often have the ability to use intellectual ideation to change any negative focus, I see my Gemini mom doing it and she's often tries to sell it to me, but my negativity is too consolidated and I just despise life. I hate having to work hard at everything and not being able to feel any enjoyment (taurus thing). Neither can I fake enjoyment, as much as relatives and friends wish me to.....

Nate, your chart speaks of a natural meditator who has reached a point where 'jollying you up' seems ludicrous. I swear, awareness of life and suffering is a prime spot to be in before channeling your mind and becoming a scientist of mind-physics. You are poised to take a leap in such a direction especially when there's nowhere else to go that matters to you. Use it then!

There's got to be a Tibetan buddhist "dharamadhatu" nearby where you live.

I say this in absolute respect for whatever your beliefs are, and am not attempting to shove 'religion' down your throat. Trust this: it's not about religion because that's just more bs. It's about making friends with yourself and discovering tenderness and empathy for yourself. Gentle discipline.

Go deeper into those walls you stare at and whether they're solid or not.

Cheerio!
 

Otay

Well-known member
Universal, you said:

"The sister and the deceased had some kind of strange relationship where they called each other constantly and sort of co-existed as one.
The late uncle was a Pisces Sun, born, I believe March 7/46, the wife Aug 19/36 and the sister Oct. 10, 1940."

Looks and sounds like they parented one another judging from their charts their parents pretty much left them high and dry and so depended upon one another for family warmth.
 

Natasha

Well-known member
I have read it said that suicide can occur when a person unconsciously refuses to transform some part of themselves in some way when the astrological transits (maybe also progressions as well) are requesting that this be done.
Rather than make the really hard changes inside which the 'higher self' is requesting the person opts out
Of course much heavy stuff would have gone on to lead to this probably and likely a continuing refusal to move from their current status quo at an inner level.
It could be they just cannot (maybe refuse on an unconscious level) to make the big hard changes.
My auntie is disgusted about suicide as she had 2 rounds with cancer & fought for her life (successfully) and made some very very hard changes at an inner level. I can see what she is saying as her life has become so much richer & positive due to her 'hard yards'. But I suppose some souls just cant get past it this time around. Of course re-incarnationist say we just come back to try again and I am inclined to feel that could be possible
Now surely the outers are around when this kind of event occurs. It seems Neptune is the most likely as he erodes our current ego identity wanting us to replace it with a more suitable (& not necessarily more altruistic either) identity
 
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universal

Well-known member
Thanks for your expertise on this Otay. I think you described the situation pretty well between the sister and her late brother. It is unfortunate that their lifeline, for some reason, did not remain viable. Due to conflicts with the sister (who tried to to sue us for more money than the will gave her, after my Dad died), my family was unable to attend the services today. My source told me the wife was inconsolable, and the sister looked cool as a cucumber (Libra with Aqu. Moon...)
Natasha made the point about how suicide can happen when someone refuses to transform themselves in some way when transits request this be done. The uncle had, in the last couple years, experienced Uranus conjunct his Sun (and square his Uranus). Clue?
Back to the Saturn/Mars connection to suicide, as per the article. Sakoian and Acker's "The Astrologer's Handbook", elaborates on how the Mars conjunct Saturn aspect can work and when applied in context of suicide, it's chilling: "...Often the natives suppress their anger until it suddenly erupts. In a heavily afflicted horoscope...organized, deliberate destruction could follow..."
 
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universal

Well-known member
Well this is a post I did not want to write, but I guess it's a hazard of the field.
I was assured in a bar, a couple days ago, by the suicide uncle's good friend that the uncle was indeed 60 years old, which would put his birth year in 1948 and not 1946. Perhaps the wife had told me he was born in '46 so it wouldn't look so awful - that she was not 12, but only 10 years older than him. Who knows?
At time of doing himself in, then, uncle had been enduring Neptune conjunct his Mercury at around 22 degrees Aquarius, and among other things, Uranus was square Uranus. Natally the actual birthchart, if I can trust THIS data, also had the aspect of Mars conjunct Saturn and Saturn was also conjunct Pluto and the first conjunction was opposing that Mercury in Aquarius. RIP!
Late Edit
I apologize to this communiity for the misinformation of uncle's birthdate. Again , RIP uncle!
 
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