Self-hatred and self-negation

smilingsteph said:

Hi Nate-
Hey- I agree with what you are saying, but:
We OWN our feelings, I can understand being abused, beat down by life...but the feelings we keep within are ours....now what we do with them is OUR choice....
I do agree that there are not enough resources in this world to make things better for our needs...something external does effect us on the internal...however I guess it is up to us and us alone to help eachother and to help others to rid of this self-hatred we all can have within...

Nate-
Robert Hand says:
that a large number of planets in the 12th house means that they are at a critical stage...they are in a crisis point within the 12th house...and if they are left unresolved then the negative energies are expressed...
(now can someone deduce what this actually means in Nates chart?)

Like we alienate ourselves from the energies in the 12th house and then look for those things in other people....
It says here in the book that women with a mars placed here...will alienate her mars influence...and go and look for a man with strong mars placements to fufill the lack within her...

Secrecy within the 12th....holding onto these planets as a secret, holding onto who you are is a secret...you may not truly understand yourself, so sometimes not knowing who you are can lead to feeling inferior, self-doubt, and what you expressed in the opening of the thread

Saturn return can bring about unpleasant things, as it has with mine, but it also has shown me who I am...what i am capable of and what I need to change about myself...

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Oh, I'm not saying we have no say in our future, but what society has as a model for us is horrid. Look at the things that matter in our world. Those problems need to be addressed because we do take society in us, whether we know it or not.
We need better leaders today.

I don't think that all that said I am going to be able to let these issues go. I think that ultimately it arises from things in my past that I did (Sun-Mars can be a real scoundrel), and these I cannot forget or forgive. I also believe in self-transcendence, and the self-hatred gives a good platform for it. There is only one thing I care about - as I believe we come here to grow in our soul so that we are accepted into "the beyond", without necessitating reincarnation in the world to work on our ego issues, I only want to reach such a state of egolessness that he who decides does not have grounds to send me back here anymore.

aquarius7000 said:

Could also be the famous Saturn-Sun issues.
Saturn: stability, but also fear and insecurities, passiveness and pessimism, limitation and restraint
Sun: ego, personality, self(worth), confidence and optimism

Look also at houses one (I, my, self), and five (Leo-Sun issues like self-expression..); and how the Moon (emotions, nurturing) is doing placement and aspect-wise.

aquarius7000

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I can relate to all this self-hatred talk.

I have moon in aries in the 12th house (ruled by pisces) and sun in 5th house in virgo. Self-expression v. hidden emotions?

I have sun square saturn (which is in the 7th house).

I always hate myself for my failures and shortcomings in life. Often feel urge to resort to alcohol and stupid things like that and im successfuly edging away from it so far now thankfully. I think it's my tendency to over-worry, there's a lot of virgo in my chart.

These aspects might be there for someone with psychological problems, or depression maybe.

9th sept 87 - 21.30pm

Hey said:

We need better leaders today.

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I agree, totally agree....

Nate of the 12th said:

I don't think that all that said I am going to be able to let these issues go. I think that ultimately it arises from things in my past that I did (Sun-Mars can be a real scoundrel), and these I cannot forget or forgive. I also believe in self-transcendence, and the self-hatred gives a good platform for it. There is only one thing I care about - as I believe we come here to grow in our soul so that we are accepted into "the beyond", without necessitating reincarnation in the world to work on our ego issues, I only want to reach such a state of egolessness that he who decides does not have grounds to send me back here anymore.

Click to expand...

Nate, then it sounds like you might gravitate towards the spiritual potential of your "loaded" 12th house. You might seek out the charts of spiritual leaders who shared this chart emphasis with you and read their work or biographies. But then you might focus on the universal love dimension, or on the discipline required for a productive more solo contemplative life. Meditation may be helpful.

Nate, I'm 23 and experienced those same feelings since I was a child. I had this intense self-hatred and self-loathing that went deep down to my core, and the tricky thing was I couldn't find any reason for it. The good news is, I am now completely "cured" of this.

It might sound crazy at first, but I read a book called "Family Secrets" by John Bradshaw and what I discovered through reading that book, is that I was unconciously carrying the negative emotions my father felt towards my mother. I was the carrier of dark family emotions that were never expressed. As a child, you pick up on these vibes even if nothing overt is said or done.

It was pretty traumatic to confront the truth that my father found my mother loathsome. Because these emotions were never expressed by my father, I ended up carrying them myself, and turning these foreign emotions of loathing against myself. I couldn't cure them, because these feelings didn't originate in me - they were my fathers!

As soon as I uncovered the truth of the deep pain I was carrying, I was released from it, and I am now a different person. My medical symptoms completely vanished and I am so much lighter and I am free!

It's such a cliche these days, but my suggestion is to look into your family and your past. It might not help you at all, but because it helped me turn my life around, I felt I had to share it with you. Good luck.

Holly, I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for the advice!

Hi Nate,

I "spoke" with EJ53 and got some instructions on how to work with your interception of the Taurus Stellium in the 12th. (Now EJ, bail me out if I get to lost in the weeds)

We are going to look at the houses that have a duplicate sign at the cusp. In this case it is the 1/7th axis and the 2/8 axis. We start with the lower number houses to unlock the next set of houses, which will give you a chance to actively work with the 6/12 houses. Sounds complicated, but really makes sense.

Your first house is in Gemini and the seventh in Sagittarius. An easy way to see this combination will be in the Me/Them set. There will be issues surrounding these houses that should be tended to. I imagine you feel that you are in odds with who you are and who you believe others think you should be. With the Gemini, there is probably much debating (arguing) and going back and forth. There needs to be clear boundaries set up by you on where you start and they stop. Not just assumptions that they should know, you need to clearly state "this is me... no I am not that" And it goes the other way, you need to respect the others to be who they are, not who you want to project on them they should be. Once that has been established, the next step is to look at the 2nd and 8th. I suspect that there has been a problem with sharing space and possessions. Again clear boundaries need to be made. This is my private space (2nd house) and this is yours (8th). You need to find a corner that is all yours to express yourself. Again noting the interception is in Taurus, sensation and perception are everything to you. Make your space your own! Paint the walls, have music YOU want playing, collect trinkets that are special to you... indulge in yourself and make your space an extension of you. Once you have established who you are (1st house) and made a physical representation (2nd) you will be able to deal with the planets in your intercepted 12th.

If you need more clarification, just holler.

TK

Come on now, I know what I am, I know what my mother is and what my father is. I'd say fundamentally, this is an issue between my Sun-Marsian side and my Sun-Venusian side (which really does not like the former), and then the 12th house (and 8th house moon in equal-houses) exacerbates this through excessive inner focus, imaginative dramatization and self-crucification. I recently returned from a visit to my family in France, and I got to spend time with my Sun-Venus twin cousins. It was an interesting learning experience, learning where my own Venusian side ends and where Mars, the hooligan takes over.

Vichy can you post your birth data (date, time, place) so that we can get a look at the entire chart?

Just what I thought. I work mainly with equal-houses and I'm getting the Sun conj Jupiter in the 12th house. Leos are social creatures and do not normally fair very well in the introvert, out of the limelight 12th. Jupiter also expands the Leo Sun's natural ego, but this works badly in the self-transcending and ego-destroying 12th, which creates a horrible conflict. Even without considering the 12th house Sun, Leo will have difficulty with a Mercury that is as introvert as Virgo Mercury in the 12th. Leos want to enjoy life, have fun, socialise and "party", but having anemic communicational skills makes it that much more difficult.

Vichy, the 11th house is not supposed to be lonely with an enthusiastic planet such as Jupiter. The actual issue in your chart is that Communicational Mercury and Partnering Venus are in the 12th, that's the main thing that makes you feel lonely and misunderstood. The sun reflects what we value and how we want to be seen. Mercury shows how we communicate that. The 11th house is the house of adventure, the 12th a house of dreams but often complicated in the echoes of the past, true to it being a reflective water house.

Chiron issues especially in the first house or 8th the body and maybe 5th house issues due to 5th being yourself.
Saturn too badly aspected