Help Find Missing Madeleine.

Asu

Member
Draco's take on this chart is commendable.

Being a beginner, and still trying to understand horary, I did read somewhere that it may unsafe to judge the chart if the moon is in late degrees especially in Gemini, Scorpio and Capricorn. I stand to be corrected but are there are other considerations that supersede this?.

On a different note looking at sabian symbols for the ascendant is 4 sag.

"A little child is learning to walk; near(by) are happy parents wise enough to refuse unnecessary assistance." How uncanny but true.
 

archergirl

Well-known member
Hi Asu,

A late degree moon in any of those signs is not a stricture against judging the chart by any means, nor does it make it 'unsafe', although it of course depends on the question. A Void of Course moon in these signs usually means that the moon *cannot* perform very well; as opposed to Lilly's note that when the Moon is in Cancer, Taurus, Pisces or Sagittarius (the signs of its domicile, exaltation, and the signs ruled by Jupiter, the Greater Benefic), it is 'not much impedyted by being void of course'. The moon is detrimented in Capricorn, in fall in Scorpio, and peregrine in Gemini, but none of these prevent the chart from being read. What they do prevent is a satisfactory outcome, usually, or simply describe the state of the question, e.g. in poor shape.

Best,
AG:)
 

Futurist

Well-known member
Hello,

Well they have their man, now they just need to find Maddie.

I started this thread and asked other people to stick their neck and expertise on the line. As I have said, I did this as I did not feel confident about my own abilities. There are a million rules about peregrination, frustration, collection, refranation, etc, etc that I just do not have a good enough knowledge about to comment. However, essentially astrology is a tool of symbolism. I should have been more confident. This is what I found in a chart set for 6 May 2007 at 17.17 BST London. I will add anything that I have since surmised/concluded as a result of the current news (morning of 15th) in double parentheses. Seeing how apt this chart has proved to be, although many others will also be accurate - and I notice that many people on this thread have picked up salient points that could relate to Robert Murat and the circumstances that are now being revealed, whichever way they have approached it.

This chart/horary was set on 6th May 2007 London at 17.17

Maddie as Asc of this chart and a Taurean is Venus. Venus is in Gemini in 9th. Mercury is in 8th in Venus's sign so Mercury (ruler of 12th Captor) has Venus in his house. Mercury rules duality, two faced people, craftiness and dexterity. ((Dual nationality and in Taurus it rules Estate Agents - his old job)). Its reception with Venus in Gemini points to more than one person's involvement, tricksters and multilinguists ((turns out he's bi-lingual and been translating for the press . This shows his moving at ease between the two as Gemini also rules International Press as ruler of 9th. Interpreting and linguistics is a classic Gemini trait. Mercury in Taurus shows someone who is corpulent with thick hair. This man also has a glass eye. I know someone out there will be able to pinpoint a significator of that -maybe a fixed star)).

Anyway, Mercury is a sign of youth and craftiness. (( His reception with Venus is shown by his ability to present one charming face to the Press etc whilst harbouring another entirely int he 8th)). However he also rules the 12th and has a hidden secret. ((Robert Murat became such a subject of suspicion that the news teams dubbed it The Bob Conspiracy)) Mercury is SW in this chart Venus is SSW suggesting the location on 6th May was this direction. The co-significator of Maddie, the Moon is in the NNE house((On Google, the house Casa Liliana is NNE of the apt in Praia da Luz)).

The next significator of the abductor is always the 7th. Mars is in Pisces. He's near water, maybe a drunk or on drugs,deluded and perhaps emotionally motivated. Jupiter rules Pisces and rules 3rd. Mars is in local vicinity (3rd) ((but as Jupiter is RX he is returning to this local area or coming and going. This was borne out by his friends and family, he has only recently returned to live here. Jupiter in its own sign means this is his home.))

Mars was with Uranus on 29th April, the first day of Maddies holiday. I would say he first met her then. Uranus rules 5th of children. or as Uranus is 11th from his 7th he was involved (maybe via the internet or a group or a meeting with Maddies mother, Uranus rules Maddies natal 10th) in something that sparked this. He also had contact with Maddies Father (unwittingly on the part of her Father) as Mercury was conjunct Sun natural ruler of Maddies natal 4th. In this week Maddie disappeared, Mars was then driven by sexual or angry compulsion, Mars moving to square Venus/Pluto.

2 days later from 6 May, 8th May, Venus changes signs. This either means Maddie changes location, or appearance, or is handed to a woman. It cannot be discounted that this was the end of the road for her (as Cancer as ruler of the natural 4th) rules the end of the matter. However in this chart Moon rules 10th and is in the 3rd so she's still in local area. ((It's in Roberts turned 9th so with his in-laws in Capricorn. Ruler of turned 10th is his Mother))

Meanwhile Mercury is leaving his fixed position and moving fast. He changes signs on May 11th ((news reports say Robert Murat flew to England on this day Mercury rules 9th of long distance travel. Robert would not have been able to smuggle Maddie to the UK, so where is Maddie? Moon is in Cap, Saturn rules his Mother. In his Mothers house? Does she have another house anywhere in the area? Saturn rules structure but also concrete and I have had a very uneasy feeling about the words of Gerry McCann, 'We will leave no stone unturned in our hunt for Maddie'.)) Maddie's natal Sun has also progressed to Algol at 25 Taurus.

((What is Saturn in this chart? Saturn is in R. Murat's 4th in Leo opposite Neptune. I hope to God I am wrong but I fear she is either buried or she is in water weighted down with Concrete. I would also search building sites or his old estate agency.))

As the other significator of Maddie is the Moon, its next aspect is 12 days (that's today) to Sun. What is the Sun? This is what we need to find out because 11/12 days could just be the spotlight falls on were she is as Mars changes signs but I think this is the - well, as I am writing this the news has just said he is now an official suspect - so the spotlight is now definitely on him. I still wonder what the significance of Maddies co significator with the Sun?

The timing of Moon to the IC is 13 days today is day 12. The Moon reaching the IC means the end of the matter. The Moon's meeting with Mercury her abductor is 16 days. This is the first contact of the two. I think he will be charged on Day 16/17. If not he should be watched that day as he contacts Maddie.

As Mars the co significator of the abductor Mars changes sign today and goes into a position of strength Mars is revealed for what he is and the confusion dissappears.

Where is Maddie?. As all horaries have shown fatality, I think as Moon is in turned 9th in sign of his Mother Maddie may be in that house somewhere. If however this chart only shows the 6th May then Venus has since moved to Cancer. She's either in water, or with a woman. The absolutely best case if that she is alive and with a family.

I'm painfully aware of the nature of this post. I'm leaving myself wide open to all types of accusations.There is something grotesque about talking so flippantly about the death of a child and pointing fingers at a suspect. It crosses all taboos but I am strongly Scorpionic and I still feel that us astrologers pontificate left right and centre on lost objects, people's lives after they are dead etc but when it comes to applying our knowledge to shedding light on situations that are baffling everyone else we often hold back from showing how useful astrology can be in showing the correspondences between celestial and terrestrial events.

Obviously I still hope I am wrong but this Murat has to be the Man. He fits every single significator and the timing from this chart is exact. The Sun squares my Uranus tomorrow so that's not such a good testimony for me doing this. I could be very wrong but if Draco was prepared to put his neck on the line so must I.

If anyone can link this chart to the glass eye (accident to his eye when a child according to his fellow translator friend on TV)then that surely links him without any doubt.

**************

I have just come back to edit this tonight as I used the wrong compass direction before.
 
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Deirdre

Well-known member
Now on portuguese TV a reporter said that man has a 3 year old girl as a daughter. She has the same name as Madeleine and it´s very similar to her in appearance...it has to be him i think...his wife and daughter are living in England and he´s living here...so..maybe he molested his own daughter who knows!!! and now he comited this crime almost sure of it !! He´s a sick perversed man and i wish the justice is made
 

Deirdre

Well-known member
Here iit is from
http://www.anorak.co.uk/news/tabloids/173352.html

"Robert Murat

After the speculation the paper delivers a welter of facts. Robert Murat lives with his mum. Robert Murat is in his 30s. Robert Murat lives with his mother in a villa 150 yards from the apartment where Madeleine McCann was snatched.

The Sun (“MADDIE: BRIT QUIZZED”) says Murat lives 100 yards from that McCann apartment. Like the Mirror, the Sun produces a front-page picture of “one-eyed Murat”. The Mail hears that Murat lost his eye in a BMX accident when he was a boy. The Mail says Murat lives 80 yards from Madeleine's holiday apartment.

Murat is “stocky”. He offered to help the police hunt as a “translator”. He lives in Casa Liliana, with his mum Jenny."

You are right! It´s him. He has a glass eye!
 

Draco

Well-known member
I think that Venus in Gemini, Madeleines opponent in the event chart, probably fits the suspect well.

Venus is in the sign of Mercury, and Mercury rules the tenth house from Madeleine's opponent's ascendant. This shows that he lives with his mother. He is bi-lingual, and has between helping the local police in translating witness statements and on behalf of the parents, and assisting the authorities is significant, in that Mercury is the significator of the police in the event chart and Mercury disposes of Venus. He is of mixed nationality with his father being Portuguese and his mother being British.

Further to the Venus in Gemini theme, he says he has a daughter, that 'looks just like Madeleine'.

TV a reporter said that man has a 3 year old girl as a daughter. She has the same name as Madeleine and it´s very similar to her in appearance...it has to be him i think...his wife and daughter are living in England and he´s living here...so..maybe he molested his own daughter who knows!

It is also very interesting that Venus and Mercury were in mutual reception in the event chart, showing that he was working alongside the authorities. The reason that Mercury was blinded by combuston is because he was right under their noses, and the Sun was the ruler of the turned twelfth cusp of the police, showing a hidden enemy, he had the wool pulled over their eyes as they were working alongside him.

With Mercury moving free of combustion and increasing in dignity in coming into Gemini, and so entering into the environment of the offender, his cover is blown, and with the exact semi-sextile of Mercury to Venus, the law moves in to apprehend him.

This is where I went wrong in thinking the offender may get away with it. I was concentrating too heavily upon the combustion of Mercury, and Venus changing signs. I should have payed more attention to what would happen to Mercury when moving into domicile, the environment of the offender in the event chart, and where it would be in domicile, it's release from combustion and it's minor aspect with Venus, and yet Gemini and Cancer are non-beholding signs.

I think the aspect between Mercury and Venus, and that the suspect seems to match the signifcator, this is probably the right person.

It remains to be seen what has happened to Madeleine, and how this relates to the event chart.

Madeleine's significator in the chart is Mars, which has just entered the first degree of Aries, so it wipes the slate clean, and Mars in domicile is the returning home of the spirit, almost like if she has been killed she is at peace in the perpetrator being caught.
 
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archergirl

Well-known member
I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and caution that it is very easy to fit the chart to the circumstances, and not the other way around. I would remind people that, as in the case of the 'Suffolk Strangler', there were originally *three* different men who were suspects at the time. Two of them were judged guilty, tried, and hung by the public (in a figurative sense) before the true suspect was found; by that time the other two men were already receiving death threats.

That isn't to say that Murat isn't the likely culprit, and it does all seem to point in his direction, but let's not be too eager with our proclamations of guilt when we don't know the full story...yet.

Best,
AG:)
 
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tikana

Well-known member
hey people

breaking news

a 22 year old Russian man, Malinka *last name*, has been arrested in connection with this kidnappning.. Police ceased computer hardware

Tik
 

Futurist

Well-known member
ROBERT MURAT BIRTHDATA

20 Nov 1973 , Queen Charlottes Hospital, Hammersmith. London.

A 12 noon chart or Sun on Asc is always very symbolic in absence of birth time. The synastry between Murat and Madeleine is overwhelming. Having looked at it, and progressions, if he didn't have Maddie in his house and be inextricably involved I'll eat my hat.

Additionally the significator of Madeleines (Venus- Taurus) open enemy is Mars (Scorpio). Mars on the day Murat was made official suspect went into Aries i.e enemy is in own house. Murat has been virtual prisoner in his house since this day.

On weekend of 29th April Mars was with Uranus. Reports say Murat met computer guy (Uranus) in Cafe on Sunday 29th but I also think he first met Maddie.

Mars entered Maddies 8th House (Sun asc chart) on 3 May. Mars (Scorpio) square to Venus (Taurus) that week and Venus (Taurus) opp Pluto (Scorpio)

In the event chart the Moon was in Scorpio. Moon semisextile Pluto at time of alleged abduction.

In my horary of 6 May Mars (Scorpio)was co significator of abductor and primary significator was in 8th house.(Scorpio)

All the above is further testimony to many of the horary findings on this thread and the natal synastry. He's in collusion with someone but I can't find a significator to link Malink to this yet. although internet 'rings' is a distinct possibility the motive must lie in the Mars/Uranus conjunction and the Venus Pluto opposition - or for traditional astrologers the Mars, Venus sq - i.e. jealousy, compulsions, obsessions, romantic triangles.

As I said earlier in the week I expect police to definitively link Maddie to Murat this weekend. The Moon is going to be in sign of Cancer, the sign that Maddie as Venus is now in and Sun leaves her sign and fixity of Taurus. Saturn moves to 19 degree from weeks at 18 degrees and new Mars declination cycle begins. The horary I did supports this timing too. This whole sorry saga will soon have an obvious outcome.
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
The proper coordinates for Praia da Luz, Portugal are 8W44, 37N05

Madeline_missing.jpg

I think the hardest thing with an event chart is to determine the significators.

Notice the asteroid Madeline is in the 7th intercepted at the time she was discovered missing. Jupiter rules the hour and is well placed, but also intercepted. That would represent her 10th house parent being held up.

Madeline=Mer/Plu, Plu/POF, Mars/Ne
21Cardinal are the 8th harmonic midpoints. Here we have:
Madeline=Mean BML, Moon/MC, Sun/Plu, MC/ASC, Mo/Node, Ve/Sa

Not the best of planetary pictures. There is confusion, hidden activities and every planet is touched by the asteroid except Jupiter and Mercury with hard aspects.

With the 7th being the person on the defense, the receiving side of the chart, with the asteroid bearing her name in this house, I have to assign the descendant to Madeline. She is the descendant of the ones looking for her.

Venus in mutual reception with Mercury, dispositing Madeline puts Venus in authority over Madeline, ruling the 7th/Madeline, and also the the 5th, someone she loves.

When she was discovered missing she was toward the west of where she started. Her declination is 21N18. The closest are Asc and Ju being contraparallel within a degree or so. She is moving out of bounds as we speak. Madeline was recently conjunct her node at 6'Gem22 so I would say she had just gotten to where she was going when it was discovered she was missing. Or, she had been to this location day before. The node is moving direct and moves 17'/day and moving toward the south. If she left a trail, she may have been seen in public between the 6th and 12th since the S node was within 1* orb of 0Cap during that time. Madeline moves 30'/day, close to the same speed as Venus ruling the 7th. Again, I see Venus and Mercury as significators, along with Jupiter. Madeline's south node, where she came from is 1Cap56 just inside the 2nd cusp in the East-Southeast. The south node is moving Rx back toward the east. It conjoined Pluto on May 12. If I am reading the directions right on the picture of the resort with its orientation to the ocean, here: the main road into this resort is that direction from the apartment. I'm wondering if I need to look at the directions reversed since she is the 7th. If so then she was taken toward the north rather than south. Did she come from England? That is Northeast of there so I don't think the directions should be reversed. S.node shows where she comes from.

Since the 2nd cusp is the 8th of the 7th and the s.node met Pluto 9 days later, I think she died. The nodes could represent the union with and release of spirit or coming into and separation from body and 9 is a number of culmination. I don't know how many of the asteroid nodes move in opposite directions, but to me this looks like she moved into her future as the north node conjoined the asteroid Madeline, then she released her spirit when the south node conjoined Pluto. A psychic once told me she sees the spirit leave often, a week or so before death. Could the mutual reception with Venus mean it was her mom's time but she traded places? Orpheus, also symbolizing death and grieving, was 6Gem51 conjunct Madeline.

Sadly, Jupiter also represents her parent of the 4th and the Mutual reception puts Venus just as easily ruling the 10th as Mercury which make it likely they would be suspected or blamed for leaving her alone. Venus also rules the 12th of the 7th, Madeline's selfless service and/or her hidden enemy. The point of death is 2Cancer, opposite the south node of Madeline. 2Cancer is the solstice point of 28Sag, Pluto, being contra-antiscion. Being in water may show where she is burried. I would say a small body of water with lots of rocks or cement around, toward the west, S-west moving Southward before getting to the destination. Looking at Scorpio ruling both 12 and 1, and the fact that Mean Lilith is close by at 21Libra (often being blamed for such things, and being disposited by Venus) I wonder if this could represent the Dead/Red Sea being toward the east of where she was taken. Lilith dwelled there. That is toward the east though. If so, then Pisces representing the ocean toward the North would be the Meditteranean. Lilith is sesquisquare Madeline. It is said that her children were taken so she took other's. She represents where the Moon is furthest away from her children and Moon was also out of bounds at the time. This is an indicator of times of crisis and catastrophe. Venus is also out of bounds, even further.

The asteroid Roberta (sorry, no Robert) was at 28Cancer0, declination 19N40, n.node 7leo21, snode 20Pis38, both moving direct. Since their declination is 2* apart and his is moving south, I don't think he is the one, even though his south node is close to where Mars is and he's trine Moon. Did he come from a Pisces place? Moon trine Mars was the last major aspect to inner planet but Neptune was square after that. Neptune rules Pisces though. I think I read he's from England which is North of there, surrounded by ocean so maybe. It was after his south node conjoined Mars that he became a suspect but the asteroid and Mars were 8 degrees separated when she disappeared and it isn't in aspect to either Madeline, the 7th, Mer or Ve. His n.node on the 9th cusp with him being in the 8th shows trying to help with the investigation by interpreting foreign language. He was square Lilith 7 degrees earlier, but that's quite a bit. He is inconjunct Pluto, an 8th house type, one point against him. Venus is 3 degrees from semisextile Roberta, is that enough? I see the true Lilith is 28Libra28, 20' to exact 12th house type semisextile to Moon, and close exact square to Roberta. Maybe he is involved but this could also explain his interest in wanting to help, being estranged from his daughter. It is is him, Orpheus' north node is just reaching him now and it will sink in, what he has done.

I don't see any indication that this beautiful little girl is still alive. Other things I've seen happen during the void Moon remain a mystery so it is quite possible we will never know what happened to her. I hope we do though because this could help us learn how to solves the mysteries of the void.
 

Draco

Well-known member
"That was bad enough but in this case it's one child acquiring this visibility. It's spread like wildlife. It's a much more mawkish, much more pornographic, like reality television turned inside out," he said.

"I think it says we are very much ill at ease with ourselves and we need these symbols to give meaning to our life, to say we are good people and the reason why we're good people is because we wear these ribbons..."

I had a go at interpreting the event chart, and probably a most feeble one, because I am interested in astrology, not because I am 'wearing a yellow ribbon'.

I may have misunderstood but I wonder what your point is? :confused:
 
Draco said:
I had a go at interpreting the event chart, and probably a most feeble one, because I am interested in astrology, not because I am 'wearing a yellow ribbon'.

I may have misunderstood but I wonder what your point is? :confused:

I don't think that comment (or the article it is quoted from) was directed at you or anyone else who has looked at the event astrologically. I did my own horaries on the case because they interested me (one on where she was and one on whether Murat was guilty), having seen the comments on here about horaries and event charts I have no intention of posting them for people to look at, but I know what works for me. I think it's referring to the general attitude here in the UK. Lighten up mate, you did a good analysis.
AkkaN
 

archergirl

Well-known member
Yes, no need to take umbrage, Draco (or anyone else, for that matter). My point was about bandwagon-jumping and media frenzy, NOT astrology! As the article points out (and I pointed out on an early post), HUNDREDS of children go missing every day. Why does this one get so much cover?

If Maddie came from a working-class background you can bet your bottom dollar that a) the parents would have been utterly castigated for their 'neglect' of their children and b) the coverage would have been brief, and then dropped as 'more important' news came to the forefront. People only 'care' because a) it is media-fuelled and b) the family is from a 'better' background.

Think about it.

AG:)
 

Draco

Well-known member
I do agree with what you say about the media's selectivity as to whose tragedies are of more concern.

Have you ever heard of Charlene Downes? Of course not, because she was a working class girl from up North, that's why.

Fourteen year old Charlene, was last seen on Blackpool's North Pier on Halloween night, 2003. She was missing for many long, drawn out months, nearly two years I think. Posters were put up all over town, yet only the local Gazette took any interest in this event, and no national newspaper had enough interest to even merit a sideline in the middle pages.

When Milly Dowler, a thirteen year old girl from the Home Counties (the counties around London for those outside the UK) went missing, the daughter of a teacher and an IT consultant, within two days of her disappearance, her parents were invited to make an emotional plea on television. It was on the news every single day from then on. Quite rightly too, but why was this opportunity not afforded to Charlene's devastated mother? Why was Charlene's face not on the front pages? Is it that she was a resident of a Blackpool council estate I wonder? They don't have that kind of riff-raff weeping on the BBC apparently, or even pictured on the front page of The Sun, whose main body of readership probably do inhabit council estates, given that paper's most elegant style of journalism.

The months dragged on for Charlene, and not even a word about it outside of town.

As it turned out, the owner of a local take-away, Iyad Albittikhi, was charged with her murder. We don't know exactly what happened yet, as this has still to come to court (not that this will be news anywhere else in the country when it happens), but it is believed that she was gang-raped, and even more horrifying, that her remains had been ground into tile grout, and served up as meat in the shop - a take-away I used to give custom to after nights out clubbing by the way. This may sound sensational, but it would not be the first time that this has happened in the UK, and they never found her body.

It's perhaps a shame that Charlene wasn't an asian girl, ganged-raped, murdered and mutilated by whites, perhaps then you'd know who she was, as the notion of what an evil race us whites are, is yet again drummed into our collective psyche. Regardless of economic class, it doesn't help any of us to be white, as apparently, according to the media, it is a massively greater tragedy to be murdered if you're black, whatever your background.

So yes, if Madeleine had been on a package holiday to Benidorm, and her parents worked on the factory-floor, I know that there would not have been such a sensation. However, this does not make her or her parent's situation any less of a heart-breaking tragedy, and as this issue is in the spotlight, and as we have some data and some information to go on, what is wrong in seeing if there is anything that we can do with it?

You have been pretty dismissive on this thread, I'm just not sure what we're doing wrong in trying to investigate. There may be a media-circus surrounding Madeleine's disapperance, but is this the reason to ignore it, out of some sort of respect for those whose tragedies are not covered, for being the wrong class or race? I don't think that's good enough.
 

archergirl

Well-known member
You have been pretty dismissive on this thread, I'm just not sure what we're doing wrong in trying to investigate.

I think I'm being misunderstood here.;)

I'm not dismissive of the astrology of finding missing people, *at all*. It can be a very valuable tool, and I am learning new things all the time about how to read 'missing persons' charts. My dissent lies along more philosophical grounds.

The heart of my scepticism lies in the bandwagon mentality. Horary is a mixture of 'art and discretion', and yet there seems to be little discretion involved in using astrology to find one little kid, but not others, simply because the parents were wealthy, distinctly non-working-class, and have the world media to use as a platform. People who see something like this on television immediately jump to the conclusion that they should get involved, without considering *why* they are getting involved. I think that there is no small amount of secret ego playing into this. Just imagine! Doing a horary chart and finding the missing Madeleine! Imagine the press exposure! Imagine the gratitude of the parents! These feelings are likely never to be admitted to oneself or anyone else, but you can bet that they exist in there, somewhere. They always do. True altruism is very rare.

This is where I become wary.

No, it doesn't diminish the suffering of the parents; and personally speaking I cannot imagine anything worse than having one of my children go missing. I'd rather be tortured. I am not dismissive of their pain, at all, and putting myself into their position I would likely prostitute myself before the world media, too, if I could. But it offends my senses (and my sense of social justice, I suppose) to have the entire world out looking for one little girl, all of a sudden, like so many sheep pouring into the pen, when other children have gone missing and no-one bats an eye, or takes the time to do a horary chart for them. That's all. As the article points out, it is mawkish and borders on the pornographic. I just wish people would slow down and think about things before jumping on the truck, and I still feel that using a horary chart in this manner is treading on thin ice, philosophically and professionally; just look at the speculation going on about the charts done on this thread alone.

Your *reading* of the event chart, however, was ace, regardless of my scepticism about the rest of it.;) If this matter is resolved and Madeleine is found, dead or alive, and the culprit/s apprehended in line with what the charts say, I will change my tune. Until then...?

AG:)
 
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Futurist

Well-known member
archergirl said:
Just imagine! Doing a horary chart and finding the missing Madeleine! Imagine the press exposure! Imagine the gratitude of the parents! These feelings are likely never to be admitted to oneself or anyone else, but you can bet that they exist in there, somewhere. They always do. True altruism is very rare.
AG:)

Life is a mirror Archergirl. If that is what you perceive on the outside then you are revealing your inner nature. You are obviously just not a very altruistic person and this would be YOUR motivation. Please do not slap it on us (me). I don't know why you are persisting in leading this thread back to this point over and over again. You made you point very clearly right at the beginning. We took it. Please move on now.
Thank you
 
archergirl said:
I think I'm being misunderstood here.;)

I'm not dismissive of the astrology of finding missing people, *at all*. It can be a very valuable tool, and I am learning new things all the time about how to read 'missing persons' charts. My dissent lies along more philosophical grounds.

The heart of my scepticism lies in the bandwagon mentality. Horary is a mixture of 'art and discretion', and yet there seems to be little discretion involved in using astrology to find one little kid, but not others, simply because the parents were wealthy, distinctly non-working-class, and have the world media to use as a platform. People who see something like this on television immediately jump to the conclusion that they should get involved, without considering *why* they are getting involved. I think that there is no small amount of secret ego playing into this. Just imagine! Doing a horary chart and finding the missing Madeleine! Imagine the press exposure! Imagine the gratitude of the parents! These feelings are likely never to be admitted to oneself or anyone else, but you can bet that they exist in there, somewhere. They always do. True altruism is very rare.

I've done plenty of missing person horaries, not for every single case, because I do them on the basis of whether I happen to be interested in them, and for me that means I see a headline and do the horary before I ever read the article, but obviously it means the cases are biased towards those that get media coverage. Since I read multiple languages this also includes cases outside the UK. I also never came across a horary astrologer who was stupid enough to think the police would actually listen to them, anyone I've come across doing charts like this does them out of interest, not because they intend to tell the general public. Something like this case though should be looked at with mundane astrology as well because it is having such a global effect.
 

Lissa

Well-known member
I know I've been virtually away from this thread but I've been following it from the backstage,so here are just my cents worth.

I couldn't agree more than the family's background is the main reason why this case has been so closely followed by the media.This point has already been discussed here,so I do not wish to insist more on it.But,another one of the main reasons why think this case is getting so much attention is directly related to Maddie's appearance.Yes,the definition of beauty is very subjective,and all children are beautiful in their own way,yet,I guess we can all agree this little girl seems to fit the common beauty standards:a child with soft,blonde hair,sweet blue eyes and rosy cheeks.Children are the portrait of innocence and love,and,in ourimaginary,they are often pictured like little angels.Madeleine fits this picture very well.In fact,she reminds me a lot of JonBenet Ramsey,she was the typical arian child too.

This is not to say that this girl shouldn't be looked after,and it breaks my heart to think about all the horrible things that could have happened to this child,as well as to all the other missing childs all around the world.However,this clearly shows how our world puts so much value on the wrong this(money and physical appearance).Even my parents say this.If this was a typical latin child,with dark hair,brown eyes and a runny nose,the press coverage would have been notoriously less,and so would the public interest.Just about two weeks ago,a Portuguese woman came on TV to complain about all the media atention this case has been getting,in opposition to the (absolutely unexistant)press coverage her missing son got.This woman's son has been missing for8years,they come from a very poor background and is just a typical latin child,with black hair and a dark complexion.My parents even said they had never heard anything about the case until that day.I can imagine the anger that woman must feel,seeing all the atention Madeleine's getting,and the boats,and dogs,and helicopters,and everything the police was uncapable of doing for her son.To be fairly honest,our police has done more for Madeleine than they ever did for one of our missing childs.I simply can't think of another missing-child case where the police was so enthusiasticaly involved.This angers me,that our police is willing to go the extra-mile and do everything they can to find a foreign girl who comes from a wealthy background,yet,they are simply uncapable of doing the same for our children.I have to be honest,I simply can't believe "only" a month passed and the police has a suspect already,simply because our police NEVER works this fast.I have the feeling they're just using him as a "scapegoat",altough I also have the feeling there's something very wrong about that man,I'm simply suspiscious about his involvement in this case.Well,if it turns out that he really is guilty,I'll have to eat my hat but we'll see.

Don't get me wrong,I have nothing agains Maddie and her family,I just feel like all missing children deserve the same atention she's getting,and that maybe some disasters would have never happened if someone had taken interest in them.I strongly believe in equality,that we're all intitled to the same rights,that we all deserve justice and equal treatment.I just feel like this case proves how wrong are our society's values.

Honestly,this is not a matter of "who's the good person".This thread is simply not meant to judge anyone,only to help a missing child and her family.If you remember,on the start of this thread,I was(and still am)strongly against the use of our personal horary question in this case,but I didn't feel like it was worth talking more about it bcause Archergirl took the lead.I believe everyone in this thread feels for this little girls soul and we all want to help.Yet,I'm very cynical about this things,and I have to be very blunt when I ask:"what have we done to help this child?".I don't doubt that Draco's interpretaion was excellent,and that everyone's intentions are as pure as possible,but,was any of the things discussed in thsi thread useful to this child?Did the parents(or the authorities)read this thread,and if so,did they take anything valueable from here,anything that could help them get to this child and bring her back safe and sound?I believe not.There's simply no point in judging our mentalities/beliefs here.Believe me,the real altruistic people are not sitting in front of their screens thinking"Wish I could do something for this child",not even wearing a yellow ribbon:they're there,in Algarve,helping the family,searching for Maddie and colaborating with the police.
 

Siderum

Member
In my opinion, the girl (Madelein), this represented by the Moon, and the last Aspect was with Mars, that represents life saver or a person of security, of a sink of swimming pool or sea, MARS in Piscis, represent 2 or more person, Piscis (Portugal) and Jupiter in Sagitario (Spain).
ASC=29º Scorpio said, Adriano Carelli: "A very large-headed snake"
ASC=1º Sagitario said Charubel:"A twist serpent forming a letter "S" ".
Is posible that men (Mars) have a tatoo or anything, with the "snake"!!!
Regards
Mario
 
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